Choosing a 24 inch IPS Panel

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cerbul

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 14, 2012
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I have been trying to find a best all around monitor for myself, and I can't decide what would be the best option. Here is what I use the screen for:

1. Text/Programming/Internet etc.
Considering that this is the main use of the monitor I am specifically looking for a monitor that has excellent whites for background, good enough blacks and sharp enough text, good brightness, contrast and everything that you guys know that can contribute to help myself ensure that my eyes will not need "repair" and it makes it comfortable for me to work.
2. Gaming. As the second use of the monitor, I am not a hardcore fps gamer, but I do play every now and then some fps games, and I would prefer a monitor that can do keep up with input lag, and has a reduced level of ghosting.
3. Working with Image processing/ wide gammut preferred. I am not working for getting the results on a paper, since most of my work is used online, but I do consider that getting proper colors, will also improve the whites and the blacks to help me improve reading easily. I might be wrong, but I accept to skip this step if the alternative has excellent text readability.
4. A bit of movie watching. - Having both details in black in the same time as having good white details, is a must in my opinion, otherwise I would have to make 2 separate calibrations, one for proper whites - no black details, and another one for proper blacks, where whites have no details. At least that is how I have it on my TN Panel that I am really willing to replace.

The specifications that I would aim for are:
1. 24 inch 1920x1200, but a very good 23 inch might also be a solution.
2. Good input lag, 5-6 GtG ms is what I aim for.
3. Working with images has a very small part of what I do, and I wish to sacrifice this part if there is an extremely good option that ensures Correct Whites/ Deep Correct Blacks./ Good Text Reading/Good Input lag.

I thought until now about those monitors, and I also post my thoughts about them:
1. Asus PA246Q - being an P-IPS monitor, I expect good whites/blacks, though I am not sure about input lag, and contrast/brightness/readability of text.
2. HP ZR24W - one good option for gaming due to low input lag, but I don't know about text readability, and the lack of wide gamut, also doesn't offer me a "proof" of correct whites/blacks.
3. Eizo Foris FS2332-BK - I am a bit annoyed by this option, since I am loosing the 24 inch option, also loosing the wide gammut, and I am not sure that the panel is that perfect to compensate for all those things, and have an excellent readability.
4. HP LP2475w -Seems to be a very solid option, though I don't know how is for gaming.
5. Dell U2410 - I am pretty much considering this the less good option out of those 5, simply cause of the lack of certainty that I am not buying one produced in 2011/2012, and cause I am not sure how good is it for text reading.

The other best options that are out of my budget (maximum Eizo FS2332-BK is the limit of my budget), would be:
1. Samsung 245T
2. NEC LCD2690WUXi2-BK
3. NEC MultiSync 24WMGX3
I can't afford those, but if anyone can point out how much better is one of those compared to the other 5 options in my budget, I could consider saving up for one, or simply point out an option that is much better but is close to my budget.

Any advice is welcomed.
 
Your list is missing the newest two monitors:

Dell U2412M
HP ZR2440W

Both are LED and are near the top in gaming response respectively compared to other "IPS" family monitors.

I'm itching to upgrade my 3x24" array to LED panels, as it gets HOT in the summer. Currently i'm watching the U2412M as it has just dipped below $300.

Realistically, i'm waiting for the next gen 27/30" panels to go LED with wide gamut.
 
af22 said:
Your list is missing the newest two monitors:

Dell U2412M
HP ZR2440W

Both are LED and are near the top in gaming response respectively compared to other "IPS" family monitors.

I'm itching to upgrade my 3x24" array to LED panels, as it gets HOT in the summer. Currently i'm watching the U2412M as it has just dipped below $300.

Realistically, i'm waiting for the next gen 27/30" panels to go LED with wide gamut.
Click to expand...

U2412M seems to be the cheap safer option, but I want to spend extra to make sure I get excellent results.

HP ZR2440W seems to be rater pretty poor from input lag point of view by prad.de
So who should I believe?
 
Indeed, ZR2440W seems to be rated correctly on both, as having input lag that most likely will bother. 20 ms I think is where the limit between acceptable/not acceptable is. Am I right?

What i don't know is why is HP LP2475W being rated the same as U2410 on prad.de since there is a very consistent difference. Dell U2410 is 14.4 ms, while HP LP2475W is 25 ms. In my opinion is just about how much is needed to make it unacceptable, yet they are rated with the same "good/satisfacatory" on prad.de

Anyone can give feedback on how bad is 20-25 ms of input lag? Never had the ocasion to test, so I have no clue, though I was a semi-pro counter strike player, so I will defo get annoyed by it if is too bad.
 
cerbul said:
I thought until now about those monitors, and I also post my thoughts about them:
1. Asus PA246Q - being an P-IPS monitor, I expect good whites/blacks, though I am not sure about input lag, and contrast/brightness/readability of text.
2. HP ZR24W - one good option for gaming due to low input lag, but I don't know about text readability, and the lack of wide gamut, also doesn't offer me a "proof" of correct whites/blacks.
3. Eizo Foris FS2332-BK - I am a bit annoyed by this option, since I am loosing the 24 inch option, also loosing the wide gammut, and I am not sure that the panel is that perfect to compensate for all those things, and have an excellent readability.
4. HP LP2475w -Seems to be a very solid option, though I don't know how is for gaming.
5. Dell U2410 - I am pretty much considering this the less good option out of those 5, simply cause of the lack of certainty that I am not buying one produced in 2011/2012, and cause I am not sure how good is it for text reading.

...............
Click to expand...


Why do you make such a fuss over input-lag?
Have you read all these reviews and gotten the idea that it's something that matters?
To most people it does not.
I guess you already have a LCD monitor, right?
And you don't notice any input-lag on that one?


If you want correct colors, you have to get a calibration puck, a colorimeter.
A wide gamut monitor will only show oversaturated colors. The Asus PA246 / Dell U2410 (essentially the same monitor) are both wide gamut but have usable sRGB modes. I'm not sure if you can adjust them though...If not, that's a huge problem since monitors age and even if the colors were pretty accurate in the beginning, they won't be after many hundreds or thousands hours of use. I'm pretty sure this can't be the case since at least Dell U2410 / U2711 are so popular. But I've never gotten an answer to this when I asked owners on the forum where I usually write. Very strange.

The HP LP2475 is an older wide gamut monitor and hence it's sRGB mode is crap.
There's no point in choosing this monitor over the Asus / Dell alternatives.


The Eizo EV2335 would be your best choice, it's essentially the Foris 2332 in a different case with a very good stand. The PLS panels from Samsung (IPS variation) have smoother, non-grainy antiglare coating opposed to IPS panels. Obviously, this is better when reading. To help your eyes it's also important that you're looking down upon the monitor, a rule of thumb is that the top of the monitor should be no higher than your eyes. So, if you're not tall, it's important that the monitor goes, atleast almost, all the way down to the table.

The Samsung S850D? would be another option, it does also have a PLS panel, but is 16/10.
 
af22 said:
Your list is missing the newest two monitors:

Dell U2412M
HP ZR2440W

Both are LED and are near the top in gaming response respectively compared to other "IPS" family monitors.
....ut.
Click to expand...


Umhh.. *hawks*

The U2412 is not among the faster IPS panels out there, not that it matters to most people, but it's smaller brother U2312 should be somewhat faster and the old U2410 is way faster than both those.
I have no idea about HP's offering, but since they share panel I guess they are about equal.
 
cerbul said:
...........
Anyone can give feedback on how bad is 20-25 ms of input lag? Never had the ocasion to test, so I have no clue, though I was a semi-pro counter strike player, so I will defo get annoyed by it if is too bad.
Click to expand...

Under 30 ms is no problem to most people.

Don't you have a LCD right now?? Look up how much lag tests have shown that model to have.
 
If you describe working on images as only a small part of what you do, and if it's for online, not paper, why do you want wide gamut? I'd think it'd just make things more of a pain for you.

A couple of your requirements may be contradictory. Nice, clean text, for instance. That would rule out most new grainy IPS screens -- unless you are okay with the grain. A subset of people (including myself), can't stand it, and it made text much harder to read than pretty much any other LCD I've seen.

Deep blacks.... won't happen with IPS. You can get decent-ish blacks, relatively speaking. I'm not sure if that's good enough for you or not.

The 24" Samsung PLS may be a decent option for you, except for it's backlight bleed problems. The Eizo version may be fine, except you are really paying for the brand name... and it's a bit smaller. Just make sure if you try the Samsung (or any monitor really), you get it from a place that takes returns back without a problem. No fun to get one with tons of bleed, or you find out the grainy screen kills your eyes.
 
My last CRT died and I was finally forced to buy an LCD.
I went without thinking too much and bought a Samsung S24A350H.

I do not notice any input lag or I blame my video card for it, since is very easy to mistake the game responsiveness with monitor input lag. What I do know, is that once this lag is stable, you learn to control it. In the other hand I do notice a bit of ghosting. Ghosting becomes a problem for me only when I am checking the areas with a relatively continuous movement of my mouse, to see specific places. Obviously, anything that moves far in a dark corner, I will not notice due to ghosting, unless I lower my mouse movement speed. This obviously changed my gaming style, and instead of checking continuously around, I will check spot by spot, making faster movements, but remaining a bit with my crosshair in the places where is a possibility for an enemy to appear.

Now what else I hate about the monitor that I have now is this:
- The ag coating, looks like a crystal covering my screen, and it does makes it harder to read text. I would love to get a glossy IPS, but I don't really have any viable option, so I will live with the ag(can't afford apple). I did see a Dell U2410 I saw at someone in town, and the AG coating is acceptable for text reading, or the other way around, the text quality is good enough to not let me blame the ag coating for it. If I don't find a better option, I will go with U2410.
- Colors look acceptable after calibration, though the white is really hard on my eyes. The only way I could reduce the eye strain, was to lower the contrast to 0. I might have a defected panel tho.
- I want so much to be able to read black text comfortably on white background, so that I want to make sure I buy a monitor that have them both good.- maybe someone can say what specifications does a monitor has to have in order to get good reading. Good whites? Good brightness? Good contrast? What am I missing?
- The light colors, and whites specifically, look like they are leaking light out.
- Being a TN monitor, viewing angles are horrible.
- I have some backlight bleeding on the sides, in darker scenes the sides look much more filled with light.

I am not sure what is causing the white to look so bad on my screen. Might be led technology, might be color accuracy, might be contrast/brightness/whites/blacks problem, might be ag coating, I have no clue. What i do know is that I want to get something simmilar to Dell U2410, but slightly better if possible, specifically, better AG coating.

About Samsung PLS, I don't want to buy a 27 inch version, and I don't want to risk anything trying too many times with the 24 inch one. Either way I am sending my current one into service, as soon as I get the new monitor. And the replacement/fixed one that I get, will use at my workplace.
 
If you are okay with the U2410's coating, which is supposed to be rather heavy, you may be better off just getting the U2412 instead and save some money.

It has better blacks and less coating (hopefully). It's not wide gamut, although as I mentioned, I'd take that as a plus.

There is a 24" (and 27" too) 16:9 Samsung VA panel with a semi-gloss coating, which should have better contrast and blacks than the IPS screens, for < $300. But it's color coverage isn't the greatest. It may be better for text for you though. For decent text, you usually want minimal coating, and good contrast/blacks.
 
cerbul, IPS monitors have there weakness too. I think some of the IPS weakness might annoy you.

The lcd tech industry still has a bit more to go. People hanging on to their monitors for 5+ years isn't helping it develop.

The U2412M and ZR2440W are the first LED IPS panels and have only been out for around 1 year. I'm waiting to see what improvements next years model will bring.
 
I use three ASUS PA246Q with MMO gaming and for work.
http://www.asus.com/Display/LCD_Monitors/PA246Q/

I can stare at these monitors for 18+ hours a day (everyday) without any eye strain.
They are 1920X1200 -16:10 ratio and amazing. I will never go back to 16:9 for my PC.
I also have the Samsung S27A950D 3D-120Hz and its not even close to the ASUS for my eyes.
 
cerbul said:
2. Good input lag, 5-6 GtG ms is what I aim for.
Click to expand...

These are completely unrelated specs. Input lag and response time are NOT the same thing. Input lag is how long it takes from button press to response rendered on screen. It's a delay. Response time is how long it takes a pixel to transition from one color to the next. This can lead to ghosting if slow enough for you to perceive.

Most monitors these days have <16.7ms input lag (the magic number for 60hz). As for response time, it's almost always higher than advertised. The advertised number is best case at the highest overdrive setting (most monitors do not come set at the highest overdrive setting by default).
 
Asus PA246 Professional IPS monitors. A gadzillion color pallet (Actually a deep color 1 billion pallete) a really fine pitch, can be rotated to portrait mode, Display port, DVI, Dsub, and HDMI inputs, USB 2.0 HUB, and a great price. 5 year warranty. 100% no dead pixel warranty from Asus for 5 years. Beat that shit. I own 3 of these and they are AMAZING!

I can detect NO input lag on my LCD's, and I am one of those rare gamers with 250FPS eye sockets. Yeah I got em. I can see the slightest micro stutter and I can tell the difference between 60, 30, and 150fps. And I can tell you that regardless of what a spec sheet sais' or what some epic review site states I feel like I am playing on TN planels (speed) with the quality of P-IPS.
 
Yes, about response time, my mistake, I was always considering input lag and response time to be one and the same thing, and ghosting a different thing. Now I understand that input lag is one thing and response time/ghosting is another thing. My bad. Was more of a "using the wrong words typo" instead of confusing the 2 concepts.

Can you explain a bit the 16.7 ms input lag being the general number?
If you say that is related to 60hz, means that anything between 16.7 and (16.7x2)-0.(0)1 is one and the same thing? Or am I understanding it wrong?
This also will mean that on an 120 hz monitor we will have visual difference between 16.7 / 2 - 0.(0)1 and 16.7 / 2?
 
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I have the Asus PA246Q and like it. It was hard coming off a glossy display, but if you read the main thread about this monitor some users say they feel that the AG coating is less aggressive on this one.

I'm sure there is info on the input lag and response times out there int the prad.de and other reviews. The newegg rating is artifically low because at first Asus had a 5 dead pixel policy in this monitor. It is 1 now. I game on it without issues.
 
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