Cooling everything on a single 120mm...what brand do you buy?

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CrashGawker

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May 30, 2002
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I'm pricing a new system and plan to water cool it but the case I've chosen only has one fan for cooling. Thankfully it's a 120mm so I figure I ought to be ok as far as cooling with a single 120mm radiator. I'm not an overclocker, and though I'm planning a pretty powerful build I'm hoping that the rad will be able to handle the heat. The only problem I have is trusting all that money in hardware to a single fan and not having a clue what to buy as far as reliability versus airflow and noise so I thought I'd ask for some suggestions.

Edit to add: The components being cooled on the loop will be CPU, Chipset, one WD 74GB Raptor, and possibly my RAM
 
CrashGawker said:
The components being cooled on the loop will be CPU, Chipset, one WD 74GB Raptor, and possibly my RAM
Click to expand...

Cooling the HD and RAM seem rather pointless to me (kinda like putting lipstick on a sow)... but to each his own. Same can be said for the chipset.... unless of course you're running one of them conroes that likes to cook up the northbridge.... but since you're "not an overclocker", I don't think the chipset is something you need to worry about (someone with a Conroe system that DOESN'T overclock should chime in).

Will you be using a high flow fan or are you going for quietness?

Most will mention Thermochill... but they are about twice the price of "other" brands. (not worth it to me for a few C difference)
Swiftech makes good rads... as well. Coolingworks is a new company, but their rad design is on par with swiftech's. Many also like to use HWLabs Black Ice series... Xtreme or Stealth. If you decide to add your GPU to the loop down the line, you may want a larger rad.
 
I agree with not needing a HDD cooler. For the chipset cooler, a lot runs through the northbridge (including PCIe), so a chipset cooler isn't essential but it's not a bad idea. As far as your radiator, a single 120 mount doesn't limit you to a single 120 rad. You can still use a dual or tri rad to increase your cooling capacity, you'd just have to mount the other fan(s) as pull instead of push.
 
While I understand that the HDD is non-essential, and the RAM would be a bit over the top my intention is to actively pump as much heat out of the case as possible through the single fan in the case. I'll have a pair of additional 250GB drives in the system in addition to the hardware listed heating things up.

As far as a GPU goes I'm only thinking currently of running onboard video since I'm also not much of a gamer. I do play a little bit but I've never been any good at FPSs so I'm not into playing the newest baddest whatever on the highest settings available like so many of our brethren. I just like a fast computer and I am getting into video editing (had a kid...bought a HDD camcorder) so I'm wanting a pretty high end processor (read fast but affordable).

To clear things up a little more (I didn't want to put too much blah blah blah in my OP) I'm looking at an AMD64 X2 4800+ (or 5200+ if I think I can scrounge the extra $$), GeForce 6150/nForce 430 mobo, 2xCorsair XMS DDR2 800 1GB (4X if I can scrounge the $$$), DVDRW, WD74GB, 2x 250GB SATA all crammed into an X-QPack which only has one fan in it. Currently I'm looking at a BlackIce Stealth, DangerDen blocks, and a DC pump from DD. Total cost (4800+ and 2GB RAM) before extras like better cables, tubing, coolant, fan, etc is around $1200 (4GB RAM and 5200+ adds ~$350) (for those crunching numbers I own the drives already and there's a new monitor in there)

Back to the topic, while cool is important I ultimately want quiet. Not being a clocker or gamer I doubt a few the cost of a few CFM for silence isn't going to hurt my temps much overall but by the same token if a slight swish is all it takes to get decent temps I'm not going to be pissed. Besides...with only one case fan, the pump, and the PSU in the case there's not likely to be much noise anyhow.

Off topic a second to close things up, I'm not too interested in using a multiple 120mm radiator because that would either require me to have my rad on hose and laying outside the case instead of mounted solidly, or I would have to mod the case which I have to admit I'm not inclined to do. My last case mod STILL isn't finished and it's been in progress for like 3 years now :eek:
 
Newer SFF cases are generally designed to have good airflow paths, and if you're not overclocking or gaming, your heat output shouldn't be anything too crazy. So, with that said:

Corsair XMS comes with heat spreaders that do a pretty good job and they will dissipate the heat just fine. I still don't think you need to W/C them as the cost/benefit ratio just isn't there. Same goes with the hard drives.

If you're using onboard video, there's no reason to cool that or the northbridge. That leaves you with just the CPU, which is absolutely manageable with a single 120 rad. Attach a Panaflo or Yate Loon fan and you'll end up with both cool and quiet as it will do a good job of cooling your fluid as well as extracting heat from your case.

Side note: consider a 38mm fan as generally it will push more CFM than a 25mm without increasing dBA levels.
 
You have a good point, but wouldn't it make sense to put as much heat into the loop instead of into the case? I mean considering that the only exit points are the rad and PSU wouldn't it be a good idea to dump as much heat as possible outside the case?

How would you guys set the case up with the hardware configuration I listed? Just a CPU block on the loop and rely on the same single 120mm to ventilate the rest of the case and hardware even with the hard drives and everything? The chipset cooler on the motherboard I want is passive so there's one less fan (on purpose of course) so essentially the computer would literally be limited to a single 120mm fan and the PSU (prolly Enermax Liberty 400W).

I'd actually like to hear some opinions on how you guys would set things up because this is only my third water cooling setup and to be totally honest my second was better than the first but I think I still have a lot to learn.
 
In the defense of water cooling a hard drive, it's not pointless. What if you have your hd mounted somewhere where there's no airflow, and getting that airflow there means a case mod or a ghetto solution? If you're prepared to do that, then fine.

Adding a hd block will keep it cooler than it would be otherwise. However, current designs are poor; they can add restriction to your loop, are heavy and cost too much. Find out what the maximum operating temperature of your hard drive is (for the WD Raptors it's around 55C / 131F). If yours exceeds that (or think it will) then consider doing something about it.
 
CrashGawker said:
You have a good point, but wouldn't it make sense to put as much heat into the loop instead of into the case? I mean considering that the only exit points are the rad and PSU wouldn't it be a good idea to dump as much heat as possible outside the case?

How would you guys set the case up with the hardware configuration I listed? Just a CPU block on the loop and rely on the same single 120mm to ventilate the rest of the case and hardware even with the hard drives and everything? The chipset cooler on the motherboard I want is passive so there's one less fan (on purpose of course) so essentially the computer would literally be limited to a single 120mm fan and the PSU (prolly Enermax Liberty 400W).

I'd actually like to hear some opinions on how you guys would set things up because this is only my third water cooling setup and to be totally honest my second was better than the first but I think I still have a lot to learn.
Click to expand...

If you're putting three (really? THREE?) hard drives into a SFF case, it had better have good airflow or you'll need to get a good pump and a big rad as it wouldn't make much sense to only put a block on one of them. How do you feel about modding? With all of those pretty windows, you could take a Dremel and mount a fan pretty much anywhere you need it.

I still don't think you'll see a positive cost/benefit ratio with HDD blocks. My personal opinion, especially if you're using just the single 120 rad, it to at least start by blocking the CPU only. The 120 on the PSU will move a decent amount of air as well, so see what your case temps are before you start throwing money into components you don't need.
 
oorah Mysterae: There is no such thing as too much cooling. True, blocks are spendy but so are hard drives...why not try and take care of them?

ETS: I understand that in essence the point behind SFF is to have a small footprint easy to handle machine which usually means less hardware inside the case, and yes 3 hard drives would require good airflow you are completely correct. But if I were to block the chipset, CPU, and the WD74, the only things left to dump heat into the interior of the case would be the two hard drives, my RAM and maybe a couple of smaller bits on the motherboard right? That was actually the idea behind blocking so much on the rad in the first place. If I reduce the amount of heat getting dumped into the interior there is less heat that has to be drawn OUT via airflow.

Also, I'm not AFRAID of modding (http://www.thesceneofthewreck.com/bgy-11/construction.php) I just don't want to get all involved with another heavy modding project when my OTHER one isn't even finished yet. Also BTW I'm not buying the windowed model...if I decide to mod it down the road I want a blank canvas to work with.

The thing with the three drives is this; I already own all the drives in question and as I can afford it I'm slowly buying high capacity drive (500GB+) to put into my large rig (pictured above) in an effort to consolidate a ridiculous stack of smaller drives (about 15 of the bastards all less than 160GB) that made up my old file server. In doing this I'll be freeing up a trio of 250GB drives and it just seemed a waste not to use them somewhere. Since the case I want only has 5 bays, one being for my optical and one for my floppy/card reader that leaves two internal 3.5s and one optical bay for the blocked Raptor. Or at least that's how I was planning it.

That being said it's not really feasible to block the other two HDDs because there's not enough room for blocks in those bays. The big machine is getting a change of purpose because I've decided it's too big and unwieldy as a personal rig so it's going to be converted into a Linux media server/master backend for my MythTV systems. I mean with a projected stoarge capacity of around 3.75TB (formatted not gross) I should have PLENTY of recording capability as well as basic storage capacity. The other two in this theoretical rig are for personal storage purposes.

ETA: I'm doing a little reading and I can not believe the amount of product pushing people are doing for Thermochill...I mean the performance is apparently good but holy crap! I could never spend that kind of money...not to mention the things are ginormous...wow
 
My rig is in my sig. It's run off of one 120 mm fan.

I wouldn't waste your time water cooling the ram or HDD's as you'll find that it's a complete waste of money. If you're concerned about them get a well placed internal fan.
 
The ultimate quiet and performance radiators are indeed Thermochill. The PA 120.1 is the best 120mm radiator, it performs incredibly well at low fan speeds.

Cheaper options would be the Swiftech Quiet Power series, Cooltek (hard to find), or the Black Ice Pro (original not the newer GT series, and definitely not the Xtreme series).

I have a Thermochill PA160 in my rig and it simply amazing, then again this specific radiator was designed and engineered from the ground up for the absolute best performance from a slow spinning (read: quiet) 120mm fan.
 
Blown 89 said:
My rig is in my sig. It's run off of one 120 mm fan.

I wouldn't waste your time water cooling the ram or HDD's as you'll find that it's a complete waste of money. If you're concerned about them get a well placed internal fan.
Click to expand...

I think your sig proves that my hardware configuration isn't outside the realm of the single 120. You're running a nice GPU as well as the CPU and I'd be willing to bet the GPU puts out more heat than does my chipset/HDD/RAM combo. Makes me feel a lot more confidant about this (yes I know everyone cringes when I suggest cooling that stuff) so all it really leaves would be some sort of better cooling around the other two HDD bays.

Would a push/pull configuration increase airflow through the radiator enough to justify the extra noise and provide enough draw to pull more air out of the case?

ETA: How good are the new fluid dynamic fans? They are a little spendy as far as fans go but if they are good I'd only have to buy one for the rad and one for the PSU which wouldn't be too high. And would they be able to pull enough air to circulate a case without any other fans relatively well?
 
http://www.thermochill.com/PATesting/PA1201cwVSFlowrateLPM.jpg

That is a link to a nice graphic that shows you just how much cooling you can expect from a 120mm radiator. The graph shows heat dissipated with different fans (showing the dB's on the graph). If you are looking to keep a quiet setup you are looking at being able to dissipate around 120W of heat while still maintaining good temperatures.

Now you can always use faster fans to push that up to around 150W, or screamers for 200W. Another thing is you could just let your temperatures suffer. The hotter the coolant is, the more heat the radiator will dissipate, however the worse it will cool your CPU.

Depending upon the amount of overclocking you want to do I would say your CPU(100W) / NB(20W?) / RAM(10W?) / HDD(5W?) / Pump(18W) loop will have between 150-200W of heat dump in it.

As for what fans to use, I love Yate-Loons. They are the same thing as the Nexus Real Silent fans, just a whole lot cheaper. You can get them from www.jab-tech.com for like 3$ a pop.
 
Correction it's www.jab-tech.com not net, and thanks for the info I've never been there before and looks good to me.

As it turns out the mounting on the M2NPV-VM chipset cooler is some kind of bizarro wire spring hold down that I seriously doubt lends itself nicely to replacing with a water block so I may not be W/Cing it after all. I'm starting to lean towards a minimal loop with a couple of good fans to draw through the case a bit more. I still like the idea of piping as much heat outside directly via radiator rather than relying on airflow but I guess it's not really all that feasible.
 
I believe most newer motherboards employ the spring mechanism. If you look at the underside of the motherboard, youll see it's a clip that you can push together to get it up and out. Then it's just two holes, and blocks will work. Usually, nb cooling can be done passively with a better heatsink though. I like the thermalright hr05. Very effective
 
FYI, I deal with jab-tech exclusively...
They're my only recommendation...

I've had at least 1 problem with all the other stores that ship to Canada...

Including ones that have cost me hundreds.
 
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