Current state of the CRT display

GORANKAR said:
And yes people do switch back. I certainly did. My 2405 does not compare well against my 22" p220f and even worse against my 21" Sony. And yes it sickens me that I paid nearly a grand for a LCD that compares poorly against a 22" crt that sold for well less than $600 new 5 years ago.
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Who would start a thread on the "current state of CRT", and not consider it in comparision to the new kid on the block,ie, LCD?

You suffer from the same problem that many do, you bought 2005-2006 tech and found it under-whelming, and that's cool, cause I agree with you, in fact many people at another PC forum I frequent{4 years a member} believe the new Benq and Dell 24TN's are better than the 2405, ie, superior blacks/contrast ratio and motion handling.

I've previously mentioned that LCD tech made significant strides in 2007, especially wrt the Samsung M81{15 000:1 contrast ratio HDTV in AUS}, and that PC LCD monitors have also made dramatic improvement....consider the praise for the 2006 Benq 24 8 bit.

FYI, I've read 100+ articles on HDTV/HDTV tech since late 2006, I've also made over 100 HDTV caps of various resolutions since late 2006.....I'm very well informed wrt this subject, and I'm trying to make sure that the HQ late model LCD's aren't dragged down by poor LCD performance of the past.
 
ajm786 said:
You forgot color reproduction. There is still no LCD that can match a good (not great) CRT in color reproduction.

And resolution scaling. Show me a current rig that can let you game at 2560 x 1600 with all eye candy on without you having to resort to SLI or some other type of hack. What you'll end up doing is downscaling the resolution, or lowering eye candy. Which debunks "BIGGAR = BETTAR". And anyone who says they can't see aliasing at resolutions higher than 1600x1200 needs glasses. It's so prevalent that gaming becomes painful. With LCDs, you can only look backwards, whereas with CRTs, you can look forward. If a resolution is too hard on a brand new game, you can simply lower the resolution and not have to deal with crappy blurry resolution scaling. Not so with LCDs. You'll have to deal with slow frame rate, getting a brand new (if not yet unreleased) video card, or deal with the crappy looking resolution.

And viewing angles. Save the pro LCDs that are based off SIPS variants (and that incidentally run really expensive), almost all LCDs have viewing angle degradation. It's just the way it is.

But I do see what you are saying. We have to keep in mind that CRT production had stopped. If it hadn't, we'd probably have CRTs that are as thin as, draw equal to or less power, have perfect geometry, and consequently weigh equal to or less than LCDs.

Most certainly, LCDs today are "satisfactory", and that's all they are. They are not "knockout, wow!" that we've come to expect. Heck, looking at overall PQ on my old Trinitron screen makes me jealous when I turn back and look at my LCDs.
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daveswantek said:
I really doubt that you have any experience with high end CRTs. The whole reason this thread was started is because one or more gamers were looking for a display that had no input lag and a great picture. They found such a display in the Sony GDM-W900, which is a 24 inch wide aspect monitor. Not puny by any stretch.

As far as screen size goes; anything bigger than 24 inches makes you move back further, so it defeats the purpose when you give up PQ.

LCDs are good for things like programming, web browsing, network administration, and documentation. When it comes to pictures, video, and color critical work, a CRT is still king.

Like I said in the CRT verses LCD thread. Old low end CRTs make good boat anchors. When it comes to high end CRTs that are still in good working order the PQ is much better than any LCD available today.

LCDs are catching up, but they are still not their yet.

I own and use both.

Dave
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QFT and QFT.

Those two posts basically sum up my pov about CRTs vs LCDs.

I'm a web designer and gamer, and don't need anything else than my crt. Perhaps I'm not working with big enough graphics, or am not writing long enough code, but 19 inch 1280 x 1024 suits me just fine. Color as well as blacks are accurate on my CRT; when I pull down a gradient in PS, I see a gradient, not some lines on my screen. Yes I could spend 1k+ and get a 30+ inch high quality LCD, which I'm not even sure would compete with my CRT in terms of PQ, but I got my CRT for $65! The price/quality ratio doesn't even compare. Maybe if I'd buy a large, high quality LCD (if I had that kind of money), then I would stick to it for my PS/illustrator work, but they're too expensive, and I would still stick to my CRT for gaming for sure, for the reasons quoted above.
 
daveswantek said:
Yah; I was refereng to you, and this is what I was refereng to: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1032088549#post1032088549

Dave
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Last edited by Dogmapog : 02-20-2008 at 12:42 PM. Reason: p

Is this exactly what you're referring to....?????
progress.gif
 
Dogmapog said:
DOH!!!, you used a shitty TN based LCD, I can't blame you for wanting to go back to CRT.
Btw, if my powerful comments disturb you, stay the hell out of the thread.

Whether you like it or not, HQ large LCD are a great upgrade from small LCD and CRT, and that's the truth no matter how you want to slice and dice it.

As if you can see more detail on a small CRT than on a large LCD.....HAHAAHHAAHAAA
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MY 42 IN LCD TELEVISION IS NOT A TN PANEL.

Learn to read.

I can see MORE PIXELS (which, if you didn't know, equals more DETAIL) on my 22in CRT than I can see on my 42in LCD.

CRT@1920x1440 = 2,764,800 pixels
LCD@1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels.

I don't even know exactly what kind of panel my tv has in it, to be honest, but I can tell from the viewing angles alone that it's not a TN, so quit making assumptions.
 
nigerian_businessman said:
MY 42 IN LCD TELEVISION IS NOT A TN PANEL.

Learn to read.

I can see MORE PIXELS (which, if you didn't know, equals more DETAIL) on my 22in CRT than I can see on my 42in LCD.

CRT@1920x1440 = 2,764,800 pixels
LCD@1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels.

I don't even know exactly what kind of panel my tv has in it, to be honest, but I can tell from the viewing angles alone that it's not a TN, so quit making assumptions.
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LOL, you might have more pixels in your puny 22, but you won't be able to take advantage of all that goodness because of the size of the panel, ie, even though things might tighten up, the images are so small, that you suffer from a lack of visible resolution.
 
daveswantek said:
What happened; you disagreed with yourself?

Dave
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What difference does it make.....the fact remains that you were so annoyed that I stuck to my guns, you felt it necessary to actually LIE about me.....in future, don't give me the option of proving you wrong okay:D
 
Dogmapog said:
Who would start a thread on the "current state of CRT", and not consider it in comparision to the new kid on the block,ie, LCD?

You suffer from the same problem that many do, you bought 2005-2006 tech and found it under-whelming, and that's cool, cause I agree with you, in fact many people at another PC forum I frequent{4 years a member} believe the new Benq and Dell 24TN's are better than the 2405, ie, superior blacks/contrast ratio and motion handling.

I've previously mentioned that LCD tech made significant strides in 2007, especially wrt the Samsung M81{15 000:1 contrast ratio HDTV in AUS}, and that PC LCD monitors have also made dramatic improvement....consider the praise for the 2006 Benq 24 8 bit.

FYI, I've read 100+ articles on HDTV/HDTV tech since late 2006, I've also made over 100 HDTV caps of various resolutions since late 2006.....I'm very well informed wrt this subject, and I'm trying to make sure that the HQ late model LCD's aren't dragged down by poor LCD performance of the past.
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I agree with what you're saying about LCD performance moving forward, but the PC space is lagging. What we're seeing is actually a step backwards. Seems like more and more new PC monitors are TN panels and I'm sorry, but they are not as good as say.. the 2407 which is now a couple of years old. You chose to compare it to the 2405, which is a tougher call - slower refresh rate panel (and worse CR), versus poor vertical viewing angles and colors and fewer features. In fact not one new PC monitor last year impressed me. LCD TVs on the other hand... lots of progress, I'm just waiting for the trickle down to PC monitors.
 
Dogmapog said:
Get back to me when DELL/Samsung27/Acer 26 owners want to go back to their small CRT/LCD:rolleyes:
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I don't have to. There are tons of them on this forum that have already done so. Try doing some research before spewing.

Dogmapog said:
Your problem is that you're deeply annoyed that a new affordable tech didn't replace CRT, ie, beating or at least equalling CRT specs in all areas+ being flat panels.....and because of that, you can't stand the idea of anyone thinking that a new HQ large LCD is superior to old and puny CRT unless they beat every CRT spec.
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As stated before, you are definitely hallucinating. If you think I'm going to be YAY OH SO HAPPY that a MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE, NOT AFFORDABLE tech (LCD) gets its ass handed to it time after time by technology that is 10 years older than it, you are delusional. That's counter to logic. I want, no, I EXPECT it to equate or surpass.

And what exactly is "HQ large LCD"?:rolleyes:

Dogmapog said:
But as I've said, I wouldn't dream of going back to small CRT aftering living with my big and beautiful LCD.
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Good for you. I'm thrilled. :rolleyes:

But if your "HQ large LCD" was as good as you think, meet me in UT2004. I'll be playing on my "puny old" CRT. If $1 million was at stake, I'd be collecting before the match was half over. Or in the real world, if a contract was at stake, I'd have won the contract over by 2 times before you even get finished. There are plenty of pros using LCDs. I know a few. And they sound nothing, NOTHING, like you. They've got the smarts to know how to use LCDs in the professional life, but would revert to a "HQ" CRT at any chance they get.
 
sethk said:
. Seems like more and more new PC monitors are TN panels and I'm sorry, but they are not as good as say.. the 2407 which is now a couple of years old. You chose to compare it to the 2405, which is a tougher call - slower refresh rate panel (and worse CR), versus poor vertical viewing angles and colors and fewer features. In fact not one new PC monitor last year impressed me. LCD TVs on the other hand... lots of progress, I'm just waiting for the trickle down to PC monitors.
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I compared it to the 2405 only because I saw some photo's of it vs the BenqG2400W{TN}, the Benq killed it for motion handling+ both the Benq and Samsung 245bw are supposed to have good black levels for what they are.

I do accept that PC monitors could do with a spec boost here or there, but then ole mate ajm786 will complain of cost again:(

If we could get a 27incher with the Samsung M81{15000:1}, we'd be in PQ heaven on the PC.....not that I'm that far off with my baby sized Acer26:D
 
Dogmapog said:
...but then ole mate ajm786 will complain of cost again:(
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Quote a post of mine in which I specifically complained about the price of an LCD.

I commented about the price of an LCD in relation to a CRT for the type of performance I'm getting. Nowhere did I complain about the price of an LCD. I'm all for paying a higher price for new tech, but not if it won't equate or outperform what I already have.

Why don't you just learn to read already?
 
ajm786 said:
As stated before, you are definitely hallucinating. If you think I'm going to be YAY OH SO HAPPY that a MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE, NOT AFFORDABLE tech (LCD) gets its ass handed to it time after time by technology that is 10 years older than it, you are delusional. That's counter to logic. I want, no, I EXPECT it to equate or surpass.

.
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Other than a minority of pro's, who actually cares what ajm786 thinks about LCD tech considering how hostile you seem:rolleyes:

FYI, on the proviso you have cause to use your large HQ{hi-quality} LCD as I do, then the cost isn't that excessive......I actually disconnected my SDTV cable service and my old, dull, ugly, boxy, bulky and lifeless 51cm CRT with my 26inch Acer+HDTV capture card.

Personally, I'd like to see 2 DELL/Samsung 27's....one with just DVI/VGA{maybe even Dport}, and the other a all rounder with component etc.
 
Dogmapog said:
Other than a minority of pro's, who actually cares what ajm786 thinks about LCD tech considering how hostile you seem:rolleyes:
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I'd like to think most people here consider themselves tech aficionados. You obviously must not be one one of those.

Dogmapog said:
FYI, on the proviso you have cause to use your large HQ{hi-quality} LCD as I do, then the cost isn't that excessive......I actually disconnected my SDTV cable service and my old, dull, ugly, boxy, bulky and lifeless 51cm CRT with my 26inch Acer+HDTV capture card.

Personally, I'd like to see 2 DELL/Samsung 27's....one with just DVI/VGA{maybe even Dport}, and the other a all rounder with component etc.
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I'm sorry, but this is not English. Someone care to translate/transliterate?
 
ajm786 said:
Quote a post of mine in which I specifically complained about the price of an LCD.

I commented about the price of an LCD in relation to a CRT for the type of performance I'm getting.
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Why would I need to do that silly, you keep admitting to it.
You've set yourself performance criteria's that most people might agree with in principle, but in practice, a few minutes with a large HQ LCD and the average person will hail the new KING;)

I watch a number of HDTV shows via OZ free to air HD, and it's a joy to watch on my lousy 26er, I'm also able to cut out segments and share it with my friends.....but not only that, I can dl HDTV performances from around the world, stuff that I don't have access to here in Australia.....beautifullllllllllllll:D
 
Dogmapog said:
Why would I need to do that silly, you keep admitting to it.
You've set yourself performance criteria's that most people might agree with in principle...,
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This dude just told on himself. :rolleyes:

Dogmapog said:
but in practice, a few minutes with a large HQ LCD and the average person will hail the new KING;)
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This is flat out wrong. We have an older 34" Sony Wega CRT, as well as a 60" Olevia flat panel that we use for presentations at work. After the presentation, clients come over to me and tell me just how beautiful the picture on the Wega is.

You expect everyone to do this: "Oooooooooooh!!! Flat panel!!! So big!!! Me wants!!!". This sounds like an average stupid Best Fry customer. In these forums, we are not average. The way you talk, you sound average.

Dogmapog said:
I watch a number of HDTV shows via OZ free to air HD, and it's a joy to watch on my lousy 26er, I'm also able to cut out segments and share it with my friends.....but not only that, I can dl HDTV performances from around the world, stuff that I don't have access to here in Australia.....beautifullllllllllllll:D
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What does the ability to view/download "HDTV" shows have anything to do with what we're discussing? Oh wait, I forgot. My screen is HDCP capable. So that must make my screen "HQ", right? :rolleyes:
 
ajm786.....you strike me as remarkably immature, petty and also absurdly snobbish.....either way, enjoy your puny CRT{laugh out loud}.
You also seem content to ignore my specific points and seek to score cheap points..........the hallmark of the "teenage mentality".
 
Dogmapog said:
ajm786.....you strike me as remarkably immature, petty and also absurdly snobbish.....either way, enjoy your puny CRT{laugh out loud}.
You also seem content to ignore my specific points and seek to score cheap points..........the hallmark of the "teenage mentality".
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I quite remember the first one to use the word "ass-ume" in this thread. It was you. :eek:

Au contraire, I never ignored any of your specific points. I quote all of your posts, and respond to each one of them. You still haven't wholly/properly responded to a single one of my points. As a matter of fact, you've done that with every single member of this thread who disagrees with your mentality.

And FYI, I'm no teen. I head the IT department of a well respected company with over 60 clients on my user base, not to mention almost 15+ years of experience. You're not talking to a slouch. Get your info straight, and, if it's too [H] for you, you can always find another forum.
 
why are trolls like this allowed to stink up the place while I get posts deleted and warned by mods for far less?

seriously mods. wtf.
 
nigerian_businessman said:
why are trolls like this allowed to stink up the place while I get posts deleted and warned by mods for far less?

seriously mods. wtf.
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I've been a member of this forum for over a year, and I've never had a problem with anyone until this thread.
My point has only been that my large LCD is better than my small CRT overall, yet when one reads various threads throughout the net, they're given the impression that all LCD is crap.....yet it's cleary not the case.

When I showed pics/vids to my friends and family on my 19inch CRT, there was never any amazement at the PQ{even though the raw PQ was decent}.....however, with the 26.....it's wow, wow, wow!!!
 
Dogmapog said:
I've been a member of this forum for over a year, and I've never had a problem with anyone until this thread.
My point has only been that my large LCD is better than my small CRT overall, yet when one reads various threads throughout the net, they're given the impression that all LCD is crap.....yet it's cleary not the case.
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If "one reads various threads throughout the net, they're given the impression that all LCD is crap" is the case, why don't you go onto those threads and make your case instead of here? You're obviously ignoring everything that we've been posting.

Dogmapog said:
When I showed pics/vids to my friends and family on my 19inch CRT, there was never any amazement at the PQ{even though the raw PQ was decent}.....however, with the 26.....it's wow, wow, wow!!!
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As expected, you 100% ignored my post in which I referred to this type of behavior. Lest you forget quickly:

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1032111012&postcount=216

I'd like to see you start responding to our posts, point by point, like we've been to you, instead of making blanket statements that "BIGGER LCD = BETTAR THAN EVERYTHING!!!".
 
Dogmapog said:
My point has only been that my large LCD is better than my small CRT overall, yet when one reads various threads throughout the net, they're given the impression that all LCD is crap.....yet it's cleary not the case
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My impression from reading info online was, even from way back around the year 2000 when LCD's really were complete crap, was that people agree "CRT is a heavy piece of crap that gives you headaches, throw that bulky trash out and get a sexy new LCD!" Yes, people were throwing out their 21" Trinitrons for 17" LCD's with 6 bit color, terrible viewing angles, at 30ms response times, and were loving every minute of it!

Seriously, Dogmapog, you seem hell-bent on arguing rather than giving an objective viewpoint and leaving it at that. Clearly, everyone has stated their views on the issue. Just agree to disagree and move on.
 
Alright :) Sorry if I sounded like a dick or anything but the thread just turned into people stating their viewpoints over and over and nobody with a strong opinion on the matter is going to change it.
 
Anyway, following up on the purchase of my (relatively) new Diamond Pro 2060u 22"... This thing is a beast, its rocking my socks hardstyle. Bash my shit up, but ive been playing RA3, Warsow & 2Moons with a few friends and the re-experience is enlightening... games are fucking fun again... I caught myself a number of times thinking about fragging/leveling at work, and games haven't distracted me from social environments since I was in high school. I figure this is both a blessing and curse; what was searched for is now found in its glory, yet i'm looking down upon myself walking on the brink of a vortex which has historically consumed me... computer games...

I think i'll proceed with caution. and try to post some pics soon!
 
daveswantek said:
I second that! Are there any mods on this forum?

Dave
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We have gone off topic, this has turned into a "LCD vs.CRT" thread. Instead of an " is anyone still making or doing r&d on CRTs" thread. But I don't think anyone has really crossed the line yet.

I suppose the answer to that is; r&d is prolly near non existent for CRTs, and just about the only ones still being manufactured are extreme low end shit for small tv/monitors and the ultra high end broadcast stuff. You can still pick up a good large(19"-24") CRT used/refurb, and now and again new, here and there. Of course they are all puny by Dogmapog standards. I have no problems myself with "puny" :rolleyes: 19" - 24" CRTs when I am sitting at my desks, less than 3 feet away from them. I personally don't think LCDs will ever catch up to the higher end CRT's in a few performance and pq areas. It looks as though it will be replaced by other display tech prior to that occurring.

Dogmapog, I have used the 26" Acer you are so fond of (brother-in-law recently got one). It is beautiful, especially when compared to older LCDs. However, if I had a choice between it and a FW900, both new, both at the same price I would pick the FW900. Call it a matter of preference if you like. But there are still things "puny" flat ag CRTs just do better than even the new high end LCD pc monitors. Also one of the reasons I think you have never used a high end flat ag CRT for any amount of time is; you have not complained about the thin gray line yet. It would have been a very obvious avenue of attack.
 
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