Definitely a nice-looking display.
Hopefully it displays images/movies/games in a manner that live up to [H] standards.
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Dell G series with LED
- Thread starter mistar
- Start date
Definitely a nice-looking display.
Hopefully it displays images/movies/games in a manner that live up to [H] standards.
Where is the Dell 3009WFP LED H-IPS?
Could be very nice
I think that LED in TN monitors is a good start. Consumers primarily buy TN monitors so if LED becomes standard in the new monitors, we'll soon see a lot of S-PVAs and S-IPSs with LED. These panels are updated less frequently, though, and I think that one of the reasons that we haven't seen a lot of new VA and IPS monitors with LED.
GRRRR... Another TN based LED LCD monitor.
Where is the Dell 3009WFP LED H-IPS?
AUUGHHH - I'm in the same boat! I was hoping to see it at CES! I have quite a few clients waiting to get a new 30" because of the 3009WFP and Apple 30" LED cinema which haven't been released yet.
Digital Viper-X-
[H]F Junkie
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That's not true. look at the NEC 24WMGX2 virtually 0 input lag @ through mode and average is 20-24 without it
it's not the panel that causes the input lag, it's the circuitry and over drive
ANY overdrive monitor will have worse input lag then the same monitor without
even 2MS TN panels have input lag since they are using overdrive
and Point #2
the 2MS response time is pure bullshit
its 2MS gray-white-gray at less then 10% contrast its over 20MS black-white-black at higher contrast
S/H/E-IPS panels are usually advertised in B-W-B and have a much better response time curve over the all levels of contrast compared to TN and *VA panels
if you're happy with your TN monitor all the power to you, but once you've tasted something better it's hard to go back to TN
I started with a PVA NEC 19" went to a BenQ TN 19 and I had to return it I learned very quickly then the difference between panels advertised response time is usually nothing more then a marketing gimmick.
Does anyone here actually own or has seen a G2410? A local store has it on sale for CAN $259 and I'm seriously thinking about it...
Currently I have a Gateway S-PVA display, and I want more surface area, I don't even mind that it's 1920x1080. I just want good color reproduction and no screen door effect. Is it also a 6-bit display, so will you get dithering on gradients? The reviews of the G2410 claim the color quality is great despite it being TN. I'd love to hear some person experiences.
Currently I have a Gateway S-PVA display, and I want more surface area, I don't even mind that it's 1920x1080. I just want good color reproduction and no screen door effect. Is it also a 6-bit display, so will you get dithering on gradients? The reviews of the G2410 claim the color quality is great despite it being TN. I'd love to hear some person experiences.
drleospaceman
Gawd
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Google is your friend:
http://forum.pcstats.com/showthread.php?t=65917
There are no reviews here because I'm assuming no one owns one.
Was looking to upgrade, as noted in another thread, a quite old non-TN 4:3 19" Sceptre monitor.
I had no Dell stores around here to cary the G line and from online pics couldn't make up my mind so I took in the specs, went out and compared with something similar. Most important was dot pitch and gradient transaction. I've seen sets out there with dot pitch bigger than .27mm and they create a very fuzzy effect when moving back and forth from the monitor, but more importantly text looks pixelated and unsharp with larger pitch.
Because Dell had a promo I bought a G2410 for quite a good price, around $220 tax and ship. It took quite some time to deliver but got here faster than the month long delivery estimate. Initially was convinced 24" would be too big for me since upgrading from a 19", the G2210 would be the way to go but G2210's 0.282mm pixel pitch kept me away from it.
Have about 5 days running the G2410t (as listed on the box) and compared to my previous non-TN panel and what I've seen out there, here are some of the points I've noticed:
- Despite running 60Hz refresh vs old monitor at 75Hz, it's surprisingly very easy on the eyes from the start. Overall image effect on eyes is very calming, probably due to lack of fluorescent light and the use of LED backlight, I can look at any color combination of text/background without noticing difficult circumstances that sometimes occurred with previous monitor.
- I hated the limited color palette in the specs and was almost for sure expecting a huge disappointment since I have almost like an allergy to gradients breaking off, even for TV's I'm quite picky and this is one of the main deciding factors in choosing a display. Surprisingly with the limited bit palette I don't see any trails at ALL! Probably with more use I'll find circumstances where it'll show. I've used Eizo's monitor test and compared directly to Apple Cinema Display 24" on the Yahoo main page where the side borders are a blue shade going from light to dark, some 1920x res displays showed little bit of trails breaking off and it was annoying.
- Text is amazing! From all I can say, armlength viewing distance is the same as a .10mm pitch on a cellphone, it's that smooth of a transaction between pixels. Very good at .277mm, surprisingly the Dell E2209W with .282mm pixel, to me at least, the effect was extremely noticeable and text didn't look that great/sharp.
- Colors are acceptable. It cannot compare with other TN panels I've used, it has much better color reproduction yet lacks compared to non-TN panels. I didn't notice huge differences in everyday pictures from digital camera since it looks almost better than my other panel - I remember reading some review about the G4210 that it has colors that spring to life or are more true to life, yes that is an appropriate description. Though I do notice a difference in my work as a web designer since colors tend to take a slightly different hue or shade, just have to chose another one closer to my original choice I guess..
- Viewing angle is very good horizontally (it won't shift colors) so it's great for showing to other ppl in the area yet vertically is where the TN panel is lacking, just a slight change will shift some colors: I can't use it at an angle of 110 or so degrees as I've used the other non-TN panel since it makes that effect quite obvious. Over the days I've tilted ever so slightly angle by angle until it's almost 95degrees, probably just a little bit of tilt and this makes the vertical changes almost unnoticeable with normal use.
- Other miscellaneous things I've noticed:
* LED backlight is amazing, monitor has been up for days and it feels like it's not even plugged in, the back or sides are not warm to the touch at all.
* Dell was right with the EPEAT gold standard, just in case anyone cares about this stuff, they listed the materials being PVC or whatever free... this is a major plus, all monitors I've used in the past really made the whole area smell like plastic for a long time - there was a research somehwere which concluded those smells were actually toxic, so well done Dell from this point too.
* Backlight is even, no bleeding edges and no bad pixels, so far..
* Default Energy Modes are a tad too dark, currently use Brightness 29 and Contrast 60, probably will change since I'll tweak it again.
* Matte finish!!! Compared to Apple Cinema Display and the not_yet_released Samsung P2370L, for my current use, I can not use a glossy display since it'll act as a mirror. Those who can, I guess glossy do produce better images.
* There are other minor facts that are only impressive for someone that has upgraded from an older monitor with slow 25ms response time, low contrast 700:1 and so on...
Price wise, it's quite acceptable for $300, IMO much superior to other TN panels out there and I've seen quite a few lately just for this comparison purpose. If Dell were to made an e-IPS or other non-TN panel out there, and keep the rest the same, ask let's say $450 for it, this could have been the hottest monitor on the market.
Pretty much this is all I can think of it for now, if any of you have specific questions, please feel free to ask; and sorry for the long review, I thought of letting everything on the 'paper' since I remember couple of weeks ago looking for reviews for this product as well and found not quite many opinions.
I also do photography, Canon 40D and use Lightroom for some PP, haven't touched that program on this monitor yet... so I guess, to be continued for that part
Josh
I had no Dell stores around here to cary the G line and from online pics couldn't make up my mind so I took in the specs, went out and compared with something similar. Most important was dot pitch and gradient transaction. I've seen sets out there with dot pitch bigger than .27mm and they create a very fuzzy effect when moving back and forth from the monitor, but more importantly text looks pixelated and unsharp with larger pitch.
Because Dell had a promo I bought a G2410 for quite a good price, around $220 tax and ship. It took quite some time to deliver but got here faster than the month long delivery estimate. Initially was convinced 24" would be too big for me since upgrading from a 19", the G2210 would be the way to go but G2210's 0.282mm pixel pitch kept me away from it.
Have about 5 days running the G2410t (as listed on the box) and compared to my previous non-TN panel and what I've seen out there, here are some of the points I've noticed:
- Despite running 60Hz refresh vs old monitor at 75Hz, it's surprisingly very easy on the eyes from the start. Overall image effect on eyes is very calming, probably due to lack of fluorescent light and the use of LED backlight, I can look at any color combination of text/background without noticing difficult circumstances that sometimes occurred with previous monitor.
- I hated the limited color palette in the specs and was almost for sure expecting a huge disappointment since I have almost like an allergy to gradients breaking off, even for TV's I'm quite picky and this is one of the main deciding factors in choosing a display. Surprisingly with the limited bit palette I don't see any trails at ALL! Probably with more use I'll find circumstances where it'll show. I've used Eizo's monitor test and compared directly to Apple Cinema Display 24" on the Yahoo main page where the side borders are a blue shade going from light to dark, some 1920x res displays showed little bit of trails breaking off and it was annoying.
- Text is amazing! From all I can say, armlength viewing distance is the same as a .10mm pitch on a cellphone, it's that smooth of a transaction between pixels. Very good at .277mm, surprisingly the Dell E2209W with .282mm pixel, to me at least, the effect was extremely noticeable and text didn't look that great/sharp.
- Colors are acceptable. It cannot compare with other TN panels I've used, it has much better color reproduction yet lacks compared to non-TN panels. I didn't notice huge differences in everyday pictures from digital camera since it looks almost better than my other panel - I remember reading some review about the G4210 that it has colors that spring to life or are more true to life, yes that is an appropriate description. Though I do notice a difference in my work as a web designer since colors tend to take a slightly different hue or shade, just have to chose another one closer to my original choice I guess..
- Viewing angle is very good horizontally (it won't shift colors) so it's great for showing to other ppl in the area yet vertically is where the TN panel is lacking, just a slight change will shift some colors: I can't use it at an angle of 110 or so degrees as I've used the other non-TN panel since it makes that effect quite obvious. Over the days I've tilted ever so slightly angle by angle until it's almost 95degrees, probably just a little bit of tilt and this makes the vertical changes almost unnoticeable with normal use.
- Other miscellaneous things I've noticed:
* LED backlight is amazing, monitor has been up for days and it feels like it's not even plugged in, the back or sides are not warm to the touch at all.
* Dell was right with the EPEAT gold standard, just in case anyone cares about this stuff, they listed the materials being PVC or whatever free... this is a major plus, all monitors I've used in the past really made the whole area smell like plastic for a long time - there was a research somehwere which concluded those smells were actually toxic, so well done Dell from this point too.
* Backlight is even, no bleeding edges and no bad pixels, so far..
* Default Energy Modes are a tad too dark, currently use Brightness 29 and Contrast 60, probably will change since I'll tweak it again.
* Matte finish!!! Compared to Apple Cinema Display and the not_yet_released Samsung P2370L, for my current use, I can not use a glossy display since it'll act as a mirror. Those who can, I guess glossy do produce better images.
* There are other minor facts that are only impressive for someone that has upgraded from an older monitor with slow 25ms response time, low contrast 700:1 and so on...
Price wise, it's quite acceptable for $300, IMO much superior to other TN panels out there and I've seen quite a few lately just for this comparison purpose. If Dell were to made an e-IPS or other non-TN panel out there, and keep the rest the same, ask let's say $450 for it, this could have been the hottest monitor on the market.
Pretty much this is all I can think of it for now, if any of you have specific questions, please feel free to ask; and sorry for the long review, I thought of letting everything on the 'paper' since I remember couple of weeks ago looking for reviews for this product as well and found not quite many opinions.
I also do photography, Canon 40D and use Lightroom for some PP, haven't touched that program on this monitor yet... so I guess, to be continued for that part
Josh
Hi Josh,
Thanks for the descriptive review. I have a few questions I would like to ask you.
I've been looking all over for a nice LED LCD that is completely silent, and I mean silent as in "COMPLETELY SILENT". The reason is that I'm currently running a 100% passive desktop system at my work place that is setup in an anechoic chamber room. I know that current fluorescent LCDs these days are pretty quiet, but when you put your ear right on the back of them in a quiet room, you can still hear the buzzing noise that the fluorescent backlit invertor makes inside. In my work area, this noise is very noticeable. I've looked into current LED LCDs and despite them not having the high voltage invertors(since these are powered by LEDs) many of them oddly include a cooling fan. (just for reference, I've looked at Samsung's XL30, Apple's 24in LED LCD, HP 24in Dreamcolor, NEC Reference 21 LED LCD).
Can you look at the back of your G2410 and see if there are any fans inside? Are there any faint audible sounds comming from either directly infront of the display, on top, or on the back? And also, if its not too much for you to do, can you put your ear right on the monitor(front, top, and back) and listen for any sounds in a very very quiet room environment? (ie. everything else in the room besides the monitor and PC turned off, HVAC system off, refrigerator motor idle, doors closed, no one esle in the house, late at night when ambient noise outside is at its lowest)
Thanks a million in advance.
BTW, if you manage to find inaudible noise from your G2410, congragulations! you currently own the world's 1st known desktop LCD that is completely silent!
Thanks for the descriptive review. I have a few questions I would like to ask you.
I've been looking all over for a nice LED LCD that is completely silent, and I mean silent as in "COMPLETELY SILENT". The reason is that I'm currently running a 100% passive desktop system at my work place that is setup in an anechoic chamber room. I know that current fluorescent LCDs these days are pretty quiet, but when you put your ear right on the back of them in a quiet room, you can still hear the buzzing noise that the fluorescent backlit invertor makes inside. In my work area, this noise is very noticeable. I've looked into current LED LCDs and despite them not having the high voltage invertors(since these are powered by LEDs) many of them oddly include a cooling fan. (just for reference, I've looked at Samsung's XL30, Apple's 24in LED LCD, HP 24in Dreamcolor, NEC Reference 21 LED LCD).
Can you look at the back of your G2410 and see if there are any fans inside? Are there any faint audible sounds comming from either directly infront of the display, on top, or on the back? And also, if its not too much for you to do, can you put your ear right on the monitor(front, top, and back) and listen for any sounds in a very very quiet room environment? (ie. everything else in the room besides the monitor and PC turned off, HVAC system off, refrigerator motor idle, doors closed, no one esle in the house, late at night when ambient noise outside is at its lowest)
Thanks a million in advance.
BTW, if you manage to find inaudible noise from your G2410, congragulations! you currently own the world's 1st known desktop LCD that is completely silent!
When you see LED backlights (white ones, not the RGB ones) in ordinary 24 and 30 inch monitor sizes you'll know that the manufacturers believe enough in the tech that it's more than just a gimmick. To see it in the low end first screams "marketing ploy" from a hundred miles away.
Caveat emptor.
(2nd note is that 1080p resolution lowers vertical pixels by 10%. That may not be much to some folks but it is lost screen real estate)
Caveat emptor.
(2nd note is that 1080p resolution lowers vertical pixels by 10%. That may not be much to some folks but it is lost screen real estate)
Josh,
You said the dot pitch is pretty good on this monitor, can you tell us whether you notice any screen door effect at all, let's say when your eyes are about a foot away? I don't notice that on my S-PVA monitor at home, but I definitely see it on my work TN screen. I don't notice it on some TN laptop screens though so I'm pretty sure not all TN screens are the same there.
You said the dot pitch is pretty good on this monitor, can you tell us whether you notice any screen door effect at all, let's say when your eyes are about a foot away? I don't notice that on my S-PVA monitor at home, but I definitely see it on my work TN screen. I don't notice it on some TN laptop screens though so I'm pretty sure not all TN screens are the same there.
SignalPST, I remember testing it for the noise as well, especially since I had a Samsung monitor once and everytime a bright image, like a word editing instance, was present, there was a buzzing sound coming from the lower back part of the unit. I maximized a notepad window and put my ear to the screen but as far as my hearing goes, I couldn't hear any kind of buzzing or noise. Back or side, doesn't seem to be any sort of fans present. I hope this helps!
Belzebutt, I'm not that familiar with the term 'screen door effect', even with googling for images I couldn't make it clearly what it is. Are you referring to pixels coming together especially in vertical rows probably wider than 1/2", when the screen displays a bright image or black/white text and there is back and forth movement from the viewer especially at closer distances, like you mentioned, about 1 foot or so? This is one of the problems I've noticed with TN panels and haven't seen it in my previous non-TN monitor. Unsure if pixel pitch size is the main culprit here but I've seen some TN panels that made me almost dizzy with that effect and all of them had >.28mm pixel pitch.
The G2410t does have some of that effect if I look for it, but haven't normally noticed it with normal use since it's very thin and doesn't go all the way from top to bottom. Probably no longer than 1" vertically and couple pixel lengths wide. In order to make it to appear, the movement has to be kind of dramatic, like going from arm-length to 8-9" away from the screen abruptly which doesn't happen on regular basis. The other TN panels this was visible top-bottom with just little sway movement like changing chair position, this I really didn't like at all. Hope it's what you were looking in the first place, otherwise please let me know how to look for the 'screen door effect'.
Mistar, thanks for all the help in the other thread
Belzebutt, I'm not that familiar with the term 'screen door effect', even with googling for images I couldn't make it clearly what it is. Are you referring to pixels coming together especially in vertical rows probably wider than 1/2", when the screen displays a bright image or black/white text and there is back and forth movement from the viewer especially at closer distances, like you mentioned, about 1 foot or so? This is one of the problems I've noticed with TN panels and haven't seen it in my previous non-TN monitor. Unsure if pixel pitch size is the main culprit here but I've seen some TN panels that made me almost dizzy with that effect and all of them had >.28mm pixel pitch.
The G2410t does have some of that effect if I look for it, but haven't normally noticed it with normal use since it's very thin and doesn't go all the way from top to bottom. Probably no longer than 1" vertically and couple pixel lengths wide. In order to make it to appear, the movement has to be kind of dramatic, like going from arm-length to 8-9" away from the screen abruptly which doesn't happen on regular basis. The other TN panels this was visible top-bottom with just little sway movement like changing chair position, this I really didn't like at all. Hope it's what you were looking in the first place, otherwise please let me know how to look for the 'screen door effect'.
Mistar, thanks for all the help in the other thread
Ok, so I bought this monitor yesterday. Overall it's a good monitor for the price and I even really liked the 16:9 aspect ratio, it's excellent for games. I loaded up TF2 and GRID and they both filled my entire field of vision.
However... comparing to my old Gateway S-PVA display, I just could not settle for the G2410. No matter what I tried, I could not get anywhere close to the same color quality. As soon as I got some good whites, the other colors (especially green) appeared washed out. The TN's angle issues were also bugging me, for example the Vista task bar appeared much too bright.
But the colors was what got me. So I returned it and got a 2408WFP. Yeah, I know...
But there's just no comparison. The colors just jump out at you, there's no unevenness. Once you go to something other than TN there's no going back. I would still recommend the G2410, if you don't have a high-end screen to compare to and you're not used to one, you should be very happy with the G2410.
However... comparing to my old Gateway S-PVA display, I just could not settle for the G2410. No matter what I tried, I could not get anywhere close to the same color quality. As soon as I got some good whites, the other colors (especially green) appeared washed out. The TN's angle issues were also bugging me, for example the Vista task bar appeared much too bright.
But the colors was what got me. So I returned it and got a 2408WFP. Yeah, I know...
But there's just no comparison. The colors just jump out at you, there's no unevenness. Once you go to something other than TN there's no going back. I would still recommend the G2410, if you don't have a high-end screen to compare to and you're not used to one, you should be very happy with the G2410.
To King of Heroes, you can find a refurb of the BenQ for 249.99. If the sites trust worthy or not, cheap price.
http://www.unityelectronics.com/product-product_id/5233
I was hoping for more out of LED Panels, oh well.
I just ordered a Sony 24" CRT off ebay, that will be my gaming monitor. I'm going to school soon and will be doing a lot of Photoshop/Illustrator and basic 2d/3d modeling and want a monitor good for that. So far the cheapest one I can find, that isn't a suck pile, is the HP LP2475w. But then I hear such mixed reviews on that one as well. Bleh.
http://www.unityelectronics.com/product-product_id/5233
I was hoping for more out of LED Panels, oh well.
I just ordered a Sony 24" CRT off ebay, that will be my gaming monitor. I'm going to school soon and will be doing a lot of Photoshop/Illustrator and basic 2d/3d modeling and want a monitor good for that. So far the cheapest one I can find, that isn't a suck pile, is the HP LP2475w. But then I hear such mixed reviews on that one as well. Bleh.
Belzebutt, the taskbar bugged me on WinXP too, it was just not the right color I've been used to with previous monitor and it looked just awful on the TN panel. Somehow I managed to change it to MS Luna Royal Style that has a dual tone effect as seen here, it's much better now but doesn't compare with a non-TN panel, glad you made the choice and found a better display.
Also, forgot to mention in first review, I've used Microsoft's online Clear Type tuner to adjust the fonts, which looked kind of 'thin' as WinXP's default setup.
Also, forgot to mention in first review, I've used Microsoft's online Clear Type tuner to adjust the fonts, which looked kind of 'thin' as WinXP's default setup.