dell or macbook pro refurb

M

Malikman

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
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hey i am thinking of a laptop (around the 1500 - 1800 (probably 1500) i'm thinking is what my desktop will sell for).
I'm not sure what to get. Graphically i am lokoing for somethign that can play games at low-medium settings... i'm not sure how laptop graphic cards are and was just looking for some help in this area... the macbook pro's 256mb gfx compared to like dell's e1505 or e1705 i gues i'm not sure.. those seem popular. Other than that i pritty much want at least a gig of ram 100-120 gig hard drive, dvd-rw/cd-rw.

your suggestions would be great :)
 
Which answer do you think you'll get here in the Apple sub forum? ;)

I love my MBP, it was also a refurb. While it has had it's own share of problems, from what I've read mine is the exception, generally they're trouble free.
 
Didnt you hear, Dell is going out of business?

Get the Apple, you will be way happier
 
Snarf said:
Didnt you hear, Dell is going out of business?
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Where did you hear this from? That really isn't going to happen. Trust me.

Back on-topic. I rather get the Dell.
 
ultimate360 said:
Where did you hear this from? That really isn't going to happen. Trust me.

Back on-topic. I rather get the Dell. If you really want mac, do what I did. I install Mac OS-X on my PC. (Dual Boot) It took me a while to figure out how to do it.
Click to expand...

also, its illegal to this, and thus the discussion of it is not allowed on this board.

I'd go for the Macbook pro if you want better build quality (nice aluminum chassis)
 
yea but idk if i want a 17" monitor. As well like i haven't played video games recently..l .. i think i'm just like what if a great game comes out the ni can't play it... ya know?? i'm just not sure if i should worry about a grea gfx card for games or not..
 
hungryduck said:
also, its illegal to this, and thus the discussion of it is not allowed on this board.

I'd go for the Macbook pro if you want better build quality (nice aluminum chassis)
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Fixed. Sorry. But I did it legally by using my cd that came with my mac. I think that is still illegal. I dk. Sorry.

Anyway's I still rec the dell.
 
price wise tho the e1505 is cheaper and i "think" a better gfx than the mbp ?? but also my comptuer probably won't sell for more than 1500-1600 (i think) if i sell it soon so i hav eto consider that. unless i just go for a low-end mbp or a regular mb
 
hey with that coupon could i also use my school's discount.. cause if so then i could get like 30% off i think.... (i think my school gives 10% off).
 
also how's the e1501 or whateer (the amd turion processor one) and that gfx card ATI RADEON® Xpress1150 256MB ??
 
Ok, you seem most concerned with graphics options along with screen size (and therefore resolution).

MacBook Pro 15.4" machines run 128MB or 256MB ATI X1600 Pro's at 1440x900

MacBook Pro 17" machines run 256MB ATI X1600 Pros at 1680x1050

Dell E1505 15.4" machines run 256MB TurboCache nVidia 7300's at 1280x800 or 1680x1050
and
Dell E1505 15.4" machines run 256MB HyperMemory ATI X1400's at 1280x800 or 1680x1050

Dell E1705 17" machines run 256MB nVidia 7900GS at 1680x1050 or 1920x1200

Ok, most important to note is that the E1505's use graphics solutions that use system memory, not dedicated memory. The MacBook Pro and the E1705 use dedicated graphics memory.

The 7900GS in the E1705 is more powerful than the X1600 Pro in the MacBook Pro.
The X1600 Pro in the MacBook Pro is more powerful than the 7300 in the E1505.

The most powerful of the above machines graphics wise is the Dell E1705.

My choice personally however is the 15.4" 256MB X1600 Pro MacBook Pro. (The middle of Apple's MacBook Pro offering's.)

Why? It's alluminum chassis, better form factor, size, weight, OS X (and XP or even Vista if you so desire) and it's non-outsourced tech support.

The MacBook Pro 15.4" may only have a 1440x900 resolution, but the X1600 Pro isn't able to push anything gaming wise at 1680x1050 anyway, so the 17" MacBook Pro seems almost underpowered graphically. You must realized that games aren't very big on the Mac end of the spectrum so Apple isn't trying to get the highest powered graphics cards in their notebooks.

The E1705 is pretty hefty compared to the MacBook Pro in either size. It's about 1.5 times thicker and about .8lb heavier than the 17" MacBook Pro and 2lb heavier than the 15.4" MacBook Pro.

That's my run-down.

I think the 15.4" MacBook Pro with a 256MB X1600 Pro would be the second best machine for gaming of the above. The 7900GS in the E1705 tied with a 1680x1050 screen or if you felt like running at a non-native resolution and purchasing the 1920x1200 screen.

I would also choose a glossy display on all of these models if they offer it. The MacBook Pro's glossy screen is quite nice, but I can't comment on the glossy that Dell offers as I've not seen it first hand.

I also would not consider the 1501 from Dell's line because the AMD's Turion chips have nothing on the Core 2 Duo's that all the rest of the above offer. Especially as far as battery life goes.

Depending on what coupons you can get on the Dell's though, their pricing would be a lot nicer on the wallet than Apple's line.

Did that help a bit?
 
Also remember, the refurb 15" MBP is only 128MB x1600, to get the 256 you essentially need to pony up $600 more :(
 
i would be getting a refurb apple so it's not core 2 duo (idk how much better core 2 duo is over core duo and i hear mbp is soldereed in cpu so i couldnt' just upgrade the cpu either) and i play games at 1024x769 (one step up from 800x600) so i don't want top resolution i just want to know i can play current games and maybe a few here and there later on (not like the best obiovusluy and not nearly at high graphics.. low-medium)... and since as well its' the refurb apple itw ould be as someone said above 128mb not 256mb

once i sell my rig i probably can only get 1500 so i would be getting the 1400 refurg apple.. (there was a little higher one with 256mb but they are gone :-/ ). and i put in what iwanted on a e1505 and compared with the aple refurb price and they seemed about the same...
 
I had trouble deciding between the MBP refurb and a used ASUS W3J. Asus ended up being a little cheaper ($1500+tax/shipping for MBP vs <$1400 shipped for the asus). That was one factor. Another was battery issues people have bene having with xp on the MBP. It seems the powersavings features arn't quite working right. And, lastly, I right click a lot. I know you can hold a key or use a finger thing to do it on the pad in windows on the MBP, but I didn't want to do that. So, i traded an all aluminum case and 160x100 pixels for a cheaper price and guaranteed to work correctly asus. I love the asus, but in all honesty either would have been good. Got to hand it to apple though. As much as i HATE OSX (minus the single folder installation for programs...That beats the crap out of the windows registry) I do love the form factor of the hardware.


EDIT: OH, I forgot. The first gen MBP (Core duo, NOT the Core2duo) had underclocked GPUs. They seem to score about half in most tests compared to other x1600 laptops. I forgot to mention that was really a tipping factor for me. I wanted the x1600 at full speed.

Goodluck!
 
havand said:
I had trouble deciding between the MBP refurb and a used ASUS W3J. Asus ended up being a little cheaper ($1500+tax/shipping for MBP vs <$1400 shipped for the asus). That was one factor. Another was battery issues people have bene having with xp on the MBP. It seems the powersavings features arn't quite working right. And, lastly, I right click a lot. I know you can hold a key or use a finger thing to do it on the pad in windows on the MBP, but I didn't want to do that. So, i traded an all aluminum case and 160x100 pixels for a cheaper price and guaranteed to work correctly asus. I love the asus, but in all honesty either would have been good. Got to hand it to apple though. As much as i HATE OSX (minus the single folder installation for programs...That beats the crap out of the windows registry) I do love the form factor of the hardware.


EDIT: OH, I forgot. The first gen MBP (Core duo, NOT the Core2duo) had underclocked GPUs. They seem to score about half in most tests compared to other x1600 laptops. I forgot to mention that was really a tipping factor for me. I wanted the x1600 at full speed.

Goodluck!
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What didn't you like about OS X? How long did you try it out for? Did you even own the MBP or was that just a comparison before buying?

If you end up using windows on the MBP you can overclock your GPU to the same settings you would have had on a PC notebook. Apple did the underclocking because it gave them acceptable results and fit the bill for battery life and heat.

I actually have no issue's using the two-finger right-click method. I actually wish I had it on PC notebooks when I use them. The two-finger scrolling for moving documents up/down/left/right is really nice too. PC's have those annoying side bar things. And they're trackpads are so small, making them almost useless. The Apple trackpads are one of their strengths. Also the battery issues using WinXP have been fixed in the newer versions of BootCamp.
 
MrSneis said:
Also remember, the refurb 15" MBP is only 128MB x1600, to get the 256 you essentially need to pony up $600 more :(
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Is it that much of a difference? When I followed graphics cards, most agreed that doubling the graphics memory on a slow card, still gives you a slow card. The performance will be limited by the GPU speed way way before the amount of VRAM becomes an issue. Modern games may have changed this, but I don't think it'd be much of a difference.

Personally, I'd get a Windows laptop in that price range. You can get some pretty decent laptops in that price range (like those Media Center laptops that come with all sorts of neat functionality). I've seen some good deals from Toshiba, but get whatever you like.

Going for the refurbished Macbook Pro requires too many compromises IMO. It's likely you could get a higher spec *new* laptop if you go for a dell/toshiba/gateway etc. Also, don't get a macbook with less than 1 gigabyte. I've used one with 512mb, and it was very, very painful.
 
Macbook Pro if you want to impress, and to play around with a cool OS. If you want to get stuff done, go Dell...

... as I've learned to my cost :mad:
 
PikachuMan said:
Is it that much of a difference? When I followed graphics cards, most agreed that doubling the graphics memory on a slow card, still gives you a slow card. The performance will be limited by the GPU speed way way before the amount of VRAM becomes an issue. Modern games may have changed this, but I don't think it'd be much of a difference.
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No, modern games haven't changed it. As far as I've noticed, the only people who benefit from having more VRAM on a slow card, are 3D graphics professionals.



Ronco said:
Macbook Pro if you want to impress, and to play around with a cool OS. If you want to get stuff done, go Dell...

... as I've learned to my cost :mad:
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Drugs are bad, mmmkay?
 
You want me to elaborate on the POS Macs I've had this year? I'll be happy to do so if I have enough time to write down all the crap that's gone down with (especially) the 'notebooks for flame-retardant surfaces'.
 
I recently upgraded from a 15" 1.5ghz powerbook to a 15" MBP because spend alot of my day fixing Windows PCs, and I wanted to get stuff done, and when I want to play around I can reboot into Windows for games. My wife has a Dell D820, which isn't bad, a little bigger and bulkier, but has Intel IGP, and I priced out a 15.4 gaming Alienware M5550 - and while you can get a much cheaper base config, when I picked components as close as possible to the MBP the price came out to be more expensive. The Dell's when similarly maxed out were also expensive - though you could save a fair bit of cash by picking slightly less than top of the line options - but also a little thicker, heavier, erc. Overall the MBP is a really nice mix of size and performance.

In Bootcamp, my 3DMark06 is 2240. This compares well with alot of x1600 or 7600go equipped laptops. My Aquamark3 score comes in at 46K triscore - which is lower than a 7600go - but this is the only benchmark that an x1600 seems to lose to te 7600go mobility graphics.

My Counter Strike Source avg is between 75 and 150 depending on window size and eyecandy settings. It plays really really well. HL2 & HL2:E1 look great, play great even with eyecandy turned up and fps reduced to the mid 30s.

Yes, the fans ramp up when the gpu is working, but not bad at all. The MP2 Core2 x1600 is clocked at 423mhz, and the minimal increase ATITool gives me sometimes just isn't worth the bother. On the original MBP the clocks were alot lower out of the box (because the default fan speeds were alot lower too - but recent firmware has increased the fan speeds and ATITool overclocking in Windows should get the X1600 128 3Dmark06 up to at least the 1800s - 2100.

It's not a replacement for my budget gaming box, a really cheap box I threw together last xmas and have upgraded here and there (specs in sig) - but it sure is alot quieter, portable and it sure is nice to be able to play the odd game while on the go.
 
Ronco said:
You want me to elaborate on the POS Macs I've had this year? I'll be happy to do so if I have enough time to write down all the crap that's gone down with (especially) the 'notebooks for flame-retardant surfaces'.
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Yeah actually I'd like to hear about the problems you've had.

And I can't imagine you really thinking that Windows is more productive than OS X... Expose and VirtueDesktops are just a few things that ramp up everything I ever do that Windows has nothing close to offer... I also don't have to waste my time doing spyware/adaware/virus scans, so I have no idea where you're coming from with this, but it all comes down to how you explain your "POS Macs."
 
And are these _your_ POS Macs or Macs that you're required to support and aren't happy about it?

Then again, I'm sure there's plenty of POS PC stories to go around too. Lord knows I've got lots of those. Which is why I'm darned happy to use a Mac.
 
markintosh13 said:
And are these _your_ POS Macs or Macs that you're required to support and aren't happy about it?

Then again, I'm sure there's plenty of POS PC stories to go around too. Lord knows I've got lots of those. Which is why I'm darned happy to use a Mac.
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My POS Mac story is I dropped my MacBook (my fault), and the top keyboard case part bent up a little bit in the corner, and I took it to the Apple Store and they replaced the top part. I didn't lie, I told them I dropped it, and they fixed it. I probably got that because I have AppleCare though, they did it on the spot, took about 20 minutes. (Genius Bar appt.)
 
well idk how much money i'll hve anymore it seems quite possibly my current computer will only sell for like 1000-12000 :-(
 
Optional87 said:
What didn't you like about OS X? How long did you try it out for? Did you even own the MBP or was that just a comparison before buying?

If you end up using windows on the MBP you can overclock your GPU to the same settings you would have had on a PC notebook. Apple did the underclocking because it gave them acceptable results and fit the bill for battery life and heat.

I actually have no issue's using the two-finger right-click method. I actually wish I had it on PC notebooks when I use them. The two-finger scrolling for moving documents up/down/left/right is really nice too. PC's have those annoying side bar things. And they're trackpads are so small, making them almost useless. The Apple trackpads are one of their strengths. Also the battery issues using WinXP have been fixed in the newer versions of BootCamp.
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I know this is counter to what pretty much EVERYONE says about OSX ( ...And i'll be honest, i've never been a huge apple fan, so I may be biased...I'm honest about that) I don't find OSX that user friendly. I feel like I don't really have control of the operating system and i'm just kind of 'going along' with what it decides it will allow me to do. I know, XP has its fair share of problems. I am no MS lover, but I will say that XP HAS gotten a LOT better since it was originally brought out. I think a lot of apple people forget that.

It is just little things. Everyone says how fast Macs are, yet I am constantly waiting for them. The only one i've ever felt was up to 'speed' was my friend's MBP, that I have spent some time using). I use the g5 imacs at school when the windows lab is full and i just get annoyed the more I use them. I click on firefox, it doesn't open. I click again (20 or more seconds later), then it tells me an instance of firefox is doing something or other and it has to close both. Then i hit ok. Then firefox finally comes up. Then I hit maximize, but it doesn't 'maximize' It just gets bigger. Ok, I could have done that myself. These are just little examples of my gripes, NOT particularly all of them. Another example is having to apple or ctrl shift THEN enter to make things happen. Quite often enter just seems to move you to the next line. I don't like how it uses the same generic bar at the top of menus for each program. I find it disorienting if things arn't full screen what it is actually referring to.

There are things about OSX that I would LOVE to see implemented in windows, however. 1 file registry. Single file installs. Single file deleting (to my understanding anyway, i've only ever watched others do this). It is worth repeating again, NO registry. Instant ON on open, close. How little battery they use while asleep. How they don't have little text bubbles popping up at you from the lower right hand corner every 2 seconds. I don't like how the damn icons bounce up and down until you 'pay attention' to them. Like that one spoof video said, "like a god d*** jack russel terrier!"

I am warming up to them. I just had such a knee jerk reaction to the attitude of the community on campus and the ipod. No offense, I hate the ipod with a passion. I do respect apple for not folding to the record industry at every turn, however. I don't like itunes. My friend got a video ipod and had XP. I thought 'oh, it must be really easy and simple since everyone and their uncle has a windows machine AND an ipod. NO, it wasn't. It was one of the worst experiences in computer ever. It was maddening trying to get it to do anything with her ipod.


Anyway, I digress. I honestly feel I would have been happy with either. I guess it came down to price/specs. The asus was cheaper and had higher specs. Albeit slightly less resolution and a non aluminum case. Personal preference, i suppose.


Sorry this was so long, I was just trying to express how i feel (to answer your question) instead of just presenting blind mac dislike, like i know a lot of people do.


EDIT: Oh, and one more thing. I know the refurbs are cheaper, but the first gen macbooks had quite a few problems. When i originally looked at purchasing one, I was going to buy a brand new one for $2000+. I'm sorry, but for THAT much money, for a system that is sold as 'just works' by its company, it better not have any problems. Case misalignment on the screen or what have you. Whining or mooing as it were or overheating. I know they have fixed a lot of that by now. I'm just saying it put a bit of a bad taste in my mouth about the whole thing. Sorta like winxp for a lot of people ;)
 
yea as of now it loks like i may not even be able to wafford a laptop from mac... :( just becuase of the fact that my com pwon't sell for tha tmuch i'm thinking.
 
havand said:
*snip*
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Thank you so much for saying that, really, it was a great example of how not everything is perfect for everyone and while Mac had it's plusses, it just wasn't for you! Great! That's much better than "POS mac," see what I'm getting at?

There is a lot of very blind Mac hatred, mostly because of price premiums, but I personally don't see it as being that much of an issue for purchasing a machine you will be using often if not most of the day, every day, as I do in school. I wanted a machine that was nice on the eyes (physically, Apple has a huge win here as far as I'm concerned), and I wasn't entirely afraid of learning something new.

I bought my Mac because of some changes in the Mac line and how I knew I would be using my computer at college.

I knew I needed a machine for notes, that had good battery life, and great wireless connection range, all some of Apple's strengths. And I knew if I didn't like OS X, hell WinXP was always an option on the side. So I really had nothing to lose, and the form factor totally had me from the get-go compared to the E1505 per-se and other such PC notebooks that are commonly purchased on the way in to college.

I had also decided that gaming on the go wasn't something I wanted to do or would even have time for so worrying about stuff like that wasn't what I needed to focus on. If it got the job done, and was something I liked to take with me and work on, I was sold, I didn't find that in any of the PC's I was trying.

And of course for the OP; It seems to me that you are very concerned with graphics power, and for that the E1705's 7900GS with like 20%+ in coupons is the best option of anything presented. For personal reasons I would rather have the MacBook Pro of those two which is still an incredibly capable machine, but honestly an X1600 Pro has nothing on a 7900GS.

They both offer you the same amount of RAM options (while OS X uses and manages it better, and has been doing since before WinXP was released; also this is a greatly touted feature of Vista for some reason... apparently it's a new thing to MSFT.. Apple had it 6 months before XP...), and the CPU's are very similar, Core Duo in the Refurb MBP vs. Core 2 Duo in say the E1705 or E1505...

Something I haven't seen mentioned here is that you, OP, should check DELL's refurb section, not just Apple's! Dell has some amazing deals on all the machines of theirs discussed in this thread, and some of the coupons even still work!

I'm not "in the know" on all the coupons, but the [H]ot|Deals section and places like FatWallet and such will be able to hook you up pretty well with figuring those out.

I do prefer Apple's support/warranty to what Dell offers. With Apple I get someone in the US who can actually help me, instead of an out-sourced binder-based drone, whom I have delt with many-a-time on other large vendor made PC's.

If you can't afford the MBP and you're not willing to try to afford it, then you don't want it enough to justify the extra cost, it obviously hasn't wowed you enough and the Dell would be a greater value to you. It saves you the time (albeit minimal) of learning something new, and still offers the kind of functionality you want (you'd get more from a Mac though, and that's part of the premium).

I think the prices on the Mac's are very fair, and are not too much money, but in a bind I can see where some people would think otherwise. Luckily I'm not in that situation so I didn't have to worry about it. My dad wants a Black MacBook now too and he split the cost of the first one with me... of course I think I'm going to steal his HDD and swap it with mine while I'm "fixing up" his when he gets it haha. I could use with some more HDD space if I don't get another one by that time.
 
well i want some grahpical power wich is why i want macbook pro vs. macbook (otherwise i could afford a macbook refurb) and i did not know there was Dell refurbs.. and i am still working on getting a MBP and probably will be able to figure it out eventually.. hopefully :) but anyways thanks for your info and if you have any more keep it coming :-D
 
markintosh13 said:
Yes, the fans ramp up when the gpu is working, but not bad at all. The MP2 Core2 x1600 is clocked at 423mhz, and the minimal increase ATITool gives me sometimes just isn't worth the bother. On the original MBP the clocks were alot lower out of the box (because the default fan speeds were alot lower too - but recent firmware has increased the fan speeds and ATITool overclocking in Windows should get the X1600 128 3Dmark06 up to at least the 1800s - 2100.

It's not a replacement for my budget gaming box, a really cheap box I threw together last xmas and have upgraded here and there (specs in sig) - but it sure is alot quieter, portable and it sure is nice to be able to play the odd game while on the go.
Click to expand...

Do you know of somewhere on the Apple site which states this is actually fixed and how to go about getting it fixed? I was wondering if the refurbs Apple sells actually have this fix applied or not.
 
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