DirectX 9.L will be a DirectX 10 for Windows XP

Guys, quite simply, DX10 relies on a driver model and method of hardware access that is not doable in XP without an extensive revamp of low level XP subsystems (hardware abstraction layer, etc.). DX10 will not come to xp. Games that have a dx9 code path in addition to a dx10 codepath will run on xp in dx9 mode, and on vista in dx10 mode. Period. Games that have no dx9 codepath, but only a dx10 codepath will run on vista. Period. The end. DX9.L will be a part of DX10 that allows Vista to run DX9 and <= dx games.

Is that clear yet? It would be pointless to have a dx10 -> dx9 translation layer for xp and it would be, to use a technical term, massively unfeasible and (if its even possible) slow as f*ck. Period.
 
EVIL-SCOTSMAN said:
If you read my post, you will see that I say, playing dx10 games on xp but in dx9 mode, thats my whole point, just actually getting the game to play on DX9 is all I am saying, who gives a shit if the game is dx10 only ? as long as there is some sort of way to be able to play it on xp but under dx9, which admittedly wont look as good or be as smooth as it would be on vista, so how is that misguided ?

Playing DX10 games on XP is all I am saying, nothing more, nothing less, so it isnt misguided at all, once DX10 only games come out, there will be some patch to make them playable on xp but with very much diluted graphics and whatever else, and they wont be nothing like what they will be on the dx10 rigs, and for all you ppl who say there wont be, seriously think about it, you think they are going to make all these dx9 pcs worthless gaming machines overnight ????

heck, you can still play dx games from waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back, so you really think that thats all going to stop ?

ummm

NO

its all about money, no company in there right mind is going to cut off 95% of there consumer base to keep a few people happy playing the latest games.
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Your original claim was that the story on the Inq was correct, and that DirectX 9L is some kind of Microsoft-provided patch to allow DirectX10-only games to play on XP. What we are trying to explain is that this is not true--DirectX 9L is a Vista feature and has nothing to do with XP. Secondly, the reason DirectX10 games will run on XP under DirectX9 is that the companies that make the games--Valve, Ubisoft, etc.--will include the code to detect which version of DirectX is running and will run in that mode. Microsoft is not and will not be the one supporting this, the game makers are.

So--Most DirectX 10 games for the foreseeable future will run on XP/DirectX 9=Correct.
They will do so because Microsoft is patching XP=Not correct.

That's all we're trying to point out. Peace, love, dope!
 
Vette5885 said:
I find it funny that this post is about how the INQ is wrong, and you're now trying to use them as a source to prove something.

No offense - its just pretty funny
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I'm not trying to prove something. I'm not trying to be leading with the question. Its a real question!

So again, forget dx10 for a moment. Is it possible or would it have been possible to of had a dx9 variant that had shader model 4.0 support?
 
OpenGL ftw :D

it's a dark day when the graphics API is deppendent on the OS version.

I was amazed at the number of opengl titles I could get to run on Win NT4.0
 
Jack Hoxley is a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional (MVP) for DirectX.
As you could quite rightly expect, Windows XP and DirectX 9 are still going to be around for some time yet. Officially Windows XP will cease to be supported at the end of 2006, but that doesn't mean it'll just vanish off home users machines (it may well vanish very quickly off corporate networks though). Application compatibility is a big factor in a new OS such that DirectX 9 applications built for Windows XP will still work under Windows Vista, and there will even be an updated version of DirectX 9 to take advantage of the new driver model in Vista ("DirectX 9.L").
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DX10 codepath in vista : DX10, full visuals
D9 codepath in vista : DX9L, DX9 visuals (duh, not coded for DX10)
DX10 codepath in WXP : not gonna happen
DX9 codepath in WXP : DX9

That make it simple for everyone?
 
StalkerZER0 said:
I'm not trying to prove something. I'm not trying to be leading with the question. Its a real question!

So again, forget dx10 for a moment. Is it possible or would it have been possible to of had a dx9 variant that had shader model 4.0 support?
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Yes. It is probably not going to happen though.
 
I don't feel like going back a page to hit the quote button, but someone said that the gui for vista is directx10. Which isn't right. Aero glass is all directx 9...

Directx10 could be ported to xp, but will not be. Microsoft has already said so. They already have way too many people resisting the upgrade to vista as it is. I don't know why they would go through the extensive work and rewriting of xp to make directx 10 compatible...
 
zg75 said:
Guys, quite simply, DX10 relies on a driver model and method of hardware access that is not doable in XP without an extensive revamp of low level XP subsystems (hardware abstraction layer, etc.). DX10 will not come to xp.
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It could be done, nothing is impossible. We've seen MS backtrack on many things after commercial and consumer pressure. If the gaming developers started bitching big time at MS, all of a sudden there would be an annoucement from MS saying "Oh look, wow, fancy that, here we go, DX10 for XP!" I wouldnt be surprised if an XP version was developed along side all along just in case.......

They way folks are going on about how different Vista is to XP you'd think Vista was now a UNIX based OS. It isnt. The shaders and other GPU based fancy stuff wont rely solely on a specific driver model to work. Its just how MS are implementing it at the moment.

I'm not bothered either way as Vista is some time away for me. I'm in no hurry. I'll let the over eager folks take the pain. :)
 
StalkerZER0 said:
I'm not trying to prove something. I'm not trying to be leading with the question. Its a real question!

So again, forget dx10 for a moment. Is it possible or would it have been possible to of had a dx9 variant that had shader model 4.0 support?
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probaby not seeing that SM4.0 is a major part of D3D10, if a developer is going to completely code in SM4.0 they might as well completely comply with D3D10 code

the funny thing is, to take advantage of alot of D3D10 features you don't have to completely code it to use D3D10, but if you have XP it doesn't hurt your game anymore, and if you have Vista, BAM! you get its benefits

DX9.L is Vista only, for backwards compatability and has the ability to take advantage of the new driver model and decreased overhead, same with D3D10, these features will not make their way to XP, fuad saying DX9.L is the D3D10 pathway for XP clearly shows his lack of knowledge
 
Meh, i dont care, as long as dx10 games will work in xp somehow, then I am happy, as no way am i buying vista for atleast 1 year + and in the meantime, as long as the games work, then i aint phazed at all, the graphics will still be on par if not slightly better than what we have now even running in dx9/xp, so all i say is game on, as long as we can still play, then thats all that matters to me.

There is no real point in buying vista when it gets released as it isnt anything that great, going by the betas that is, xp will do me for the foreseeable future, and if the games get shit for xp in the process then i just jump onto my sexbox360 or the ps3, plenty of good alternatives to keep me from buying vista for a good year maybe even 2.
 
Am I glad this happened , i am a owner of a GX2 and what this has done is gave it a few more extra years.

Buy a DX10 card hopefully next christas in another 15 months
 
What hardware model does Windows Server 2003 use?

It seems that the new vista server edition is not as much of a change from windows server 2003 as the new vista regular edition is a change from xp.

will vista server have dx10, will their be a dx10 for server 2003?
 
larkin said:
What hardware model does Windows Server 2003 use?

It seems that the new vista server edition is not as much of a change from windows server 2003 as the new vista regular edition is a change from xp.

will vista server have dx10, will their be a dx10 for server 2003?
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Yes and no, respectively.
 
Fouausud or whatever his name is, is a lousy reporter.

The dude doesn't know what he's writing. I really wish we could just water board him out of tech jurnalism.
 
DX10 isn't going to be that big of a deal, anyway. Most of the new glitz and glam will be doable in the DX9 codepath, albeit at a slower rate. However, DX10 cards will still do DX9 faster.

Don't believe me? add "-dxlevel 80" to the command line options for HL2, then run it in DX9 and tell me where the differences are.

They're there, but hard to spot and don't affect the game's playability or overall fun factor at all. I suspect this will be the case for most games for the next couple of years at least.
 
there are some pretty big differences between dx8 and 9 on HL2. Normal mapping on characters first of all. Then you also have better reflections on water, better shadows, better normal mapping on world geometry etc.
 
i find it even funnier that they corrected themselves,

It is pretty obvious they didnt do any research just by reading that post, just some 15 year old kid typing away.

how can anyone take anything they say seriously?
 
meatfestival said:
there are some pretty big differences between dx8 and 9 on HL2. Normal mapping on characters first of all. Then you also have better reflections on water, better shadows, better normal mapping on world geometry etc.
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The differences are there, but they're not so profound as to take away from the game at all. The game still looks stunning in DX8 mode. Ive been playing CS:S in DX7 mode since I'm using a crappy PCI 9250 (my other card needs an RMA) and while the differences are definately there, the game still looks pretty damn good. The only map that really suffers is de_aztec, and only because of the water.

My point is just that DX10 isn't going to be some must-have thing for everybody. DX9 will still work great and games are still going to look damn good. DX9 was released in Dec. of 2002 and developers are still finding new and interesting ways to take advantage of the features it introduced. DX10 will likely be the same way. In fact, moreso because DX10 is Vista only and developers aren't going to alienate a whole population of people who don't feel the need to upgrade.
 
nigerian_businessman said:
DX10 isn't going to be that big of a deal, anyway. Most of the new glitz and glam will be doable in the DX9 codepath, albeit at a slower rate. However, DX10 cards will still do DX9 faster.

Don't believe me? add "-dxlevel 80" to the command line options for HL2, then run it in DX9 and tell me where the differences are.

They're there, but hard to spot and don't affect the game's playability or overall fun factor at all. I suspect this will be the case for most games for the next couple of years at least.
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My interpretation of his point is that you aren't loosing any polygons with old DirectX versions, only effects.

Although I'd say that with DX10's completely new architecture there's a chance for better FPS with the same game vs it's DX9 version.
 
I'm sure DX10 does have some features that will be hard to replicate with a DX9 code path, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will be nonexistant. DX10 level hardware will still be faster than current DX9 hardware when running DX9 code, and with SLI/Crossfire, pushing DX9's abilities even further is still a possibility.

Also, if you think about it, Battlefield 2 was the first DX9 game to come out that made people running first gen DX9 video cards feel pressured to upgrade... and there are still people chugging along in that game with 9800XTs! BF2 was released in late June 2005. That's 2 and a half years after the release of DX9. Up until BF2 came out I was perfectly content with my 9500 with unlocked pipelines and a mild overclock. I could even run BF2 with that card, although for the first time in those 2 1/2 years I felt I wasn't experiencing the game the way it was meant to be played. Its only after this point that games started coming out that truly stressed DX9 hardware to the point of needing upgrades. It's extremely doubtful that DX10 will come on the scene and make everything else completely obsolete overnight.
 
Mister Natural said:
You should know better than to believe something from an organization that has "(i)enquirer" in its title.

Linkage
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that was posted on the previous page of this thread.

what do people have against reading the whole thread. it is most likely that someone has already said what you have to say if it's up to page 4 or so, and better to just not post than look foolish with a dupe post.

Maybe i'm just trying to start a flame here :confused:
 
Mister Natural said:
You should know better than to believe something from an organization that has "(i)enquirer" in its title.

Linkage
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inquirer and enquirer have nothing to do with each other
 
MrGuvernment said:
^^^ but how many times has the Inq been right or very dam close before ?
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As I'm fond of saying: Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

H
 
That's deep hurin :)

I liek.

But cmon, through all the names and flames, who DOESNT like reading the inq? Who DOESNT open it on at least a weekly basis for pleasure, pain or for a good laugh?
 
Arcygenical said:
That's deep hurin :)

I liek.

But cmon, through all the names and flames, who DOESNT like reading the inq? Who DOESNT open it on at least a weekly basis for pleasure, pain or for a good laugh?
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*raises hand*

The closest I get to the Inq is seeing the headlines on freshnews.
 
Arcygenical said:
But cmon, through all the names and flames, who DOESNT like reading the inq? Who DOESNT open it on at least a weekly basis for pleasure, pain or for a good laugh?
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I dont.. infact, the only times i ever have it open are when I am linked to a particular story...
 
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