Discussion of past vs. current TN+film technology

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wsaenotsock

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TN+film technology has traditionally been berated for it's poor viewing angles and lack of an extended color gamut and dithering, but i'm starting to think the downsides are exaggerated on current generation displays. I'm looking for opinions from those who own or have used current generation panels (specifically- 120hz panels) to comment on any notable improvements versus older TN panels or the quality difference from IPS.

I personally own two monitors from 2007, one being TN and the other s-IPS, so I am interested if the gap has been narrowed. For example on my (old) TN panel, color gradiation is apparent in the image even when viewed from optimal viewing angle. Has this changed for the better?

Edit: We all know, in generalities how TN and IPS behave, I am looking for specific first-hand accounts and comparisons, anything else is irrelevant. Basically I am trying to gauge the improvement of TN panels over the last 3 years.
 
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Newer model TNs have much better contrast ratios and black levels than models from a few years ago. Also color accuracy and viewing angles have improved. Look at the Asus VE278Q as an example of TN done right. It has a 980:1 contrast ratio with no input lag, very little ghosting and a 27 inch screen for $350. That's a pretty good deal IMHO. I was less than impressed with the Dell U2311, U2410, NEC EA23, and Samsung F2380. I didn't feel any of them presented enough of a step up in picture quality over my Asus VW246h to be worth the upgrade. I've actually done side by side comparisons with all the displays above. My old Dell 2005fpw also doesn't impress.

http://www.digitalversus.com/asus-ve278q-p357_10137_150.html

Now I'm going to get flamed like mad for stating an opinion. I would prefer a 27 inch 120hz Asus TN with an adjustable stand for $450 over any monitor on the market today. Unfortunately the 120hz 27inch Asus TN won't be available for another 6 months and it has the worst design imagineable.
 
wsaenotsock said:
Has this changed for the better?
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It does appear that films have improved, such as with http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2010/review-lg-w2443t-pf-part8.html#Viewing, in which the reviewer alleges the monitor does not invert colours from below.

In any case, I don't see any evidence of TN monitors having improved upon their usual trait of "A thin line at eye-level is colour accurate but the rest of the field area is inaccurate". The newest TN monitor I've used is the Acer X233H, and its performance did not approach the 2209WA at all.
 
TNs have improved significantly in contrast and color accuracy but the viewing angles are still a significant problem which kind of renders the said accuracy useless unfortunetaly. It's still impossible to have a uniform image from top to bottom no matter where you view it from.
 
I think TN monitors have come a long way. I still have a HP TN panel at home and the viewing angles are just as good as an IPS monitor. At work, we have various Dell TN monitors whose viewing angles also rival the viewing angles of an IPS monitor. However, the Dell TN monitors that I'm using for work have atrocious viewing angles!
 
daveswantek said:
Ah; ya-right. Just do not buy any IPS panels and you will be fine.
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As long as he sits in front of the monitor like a normal person, then he will fine. I'm not sure why so many IPS owners like to work with their monitor turned away from them at a weird angle.
 
IPS panel owners don't sit at weird angles - they sit in front of the display and just want an evenly illuminated image without gamma shifts as a function of viewing angles. Ok, with eyefinity, some sit off angle :p

An all black image will look bad on modern TN panels, like all other colors of low intensity. At least that applied to a 2333RZ and an LG 2360VP i helped setting up for two friends.
For a smaller screen TN is fine if it's of recent make and has a decent contrast ratio. Oh, and avoid the cheapest TN panels out there, unless one wants loads of light leakage ontop of it all.
 
vshin said:
As long as he sits in front of the monitor like a normal person, then he will fine. I'm not sure why so many IPS owners like to work with their monitor turned away from them at a weird angle.
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Here here.

Would someone please explain to me why people give a sh*t about off-angle viewing on a PERSONAL COMPUTER MONITOR?

This isn't a TV...and if you're using it as a TV, you're doing it wrong.

Out of all the inherent negatives of using a TN-based panel, off-angle viewing should be the LEAST of anyone's concerns.

What I find most interesting is that this forum is full of people who are obsessively dismissive of TN panels and then champion Dell IPS monitors which have horrible anti-glare coating and sparkle, making them pretty much useless for professional use.
 
tk-don said:
IPS panel owners don't sit at weird angles - they sit in front of the display and just want an evenly illuminated image without gamma shifts as a function of viewing angles. .
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Unless your eyes are within a foot of a 27" panel, that should never happen. I work on a variety of TN and IPS panels at work and I never have seen this kind of behavior with my photos.
 
daveswantek said:
Ah; ya-right. Just do not buy any IPS panels and you will be fine.
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I have two IPS monitors at home and honestly, I couldn't see a big difference in viewing angles between the TN panel and the IPS displays. And yes, a lot of TN panels' viewing angles are crap but there are some out there that rival IPS.
 
DefBringer said:
Unless your eyes are within a foot of a 27" panel, that should never happen. I work on a variety of TN and IPS panels at work and I never have seen this kind of behavior with my photos.
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But it did (about 2 ft away i guess). It's hard to detect the problem in displaying photos without a printed reference. Are the results just as good using a solid, darker background? Admittedly, i probably use the monitor in darker surroundings than most probably would.

EDIT: That being said, the 2233RZ was the better of those two, and it is definitely improved from past TN generation by a great margin.
 
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DefBringer said:
Unless your eyes are within a foot of a 27" panel, that should never happen. I work on a variety of TN and IPS panels at work and I never have seen this kind of behavior with my photos.
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It should very much happen. Try comparing two exactly the same objects, one at the top and one at the bottom of the screen. On a TN panel, they will always look different, even if the backlight is perfectly even and you are sitting right in front of the screen without moving your head. It amazes me how many people don't notice this. That's mostly the reason why people want wider viewing angles, not because they want to view the screen from extreme angles.
 
Ok, I'm going to jump in here and see if I can use the forum expertise in this thread to get some input. There are two things about monitors that absolutely drive me nuts

1. The anti-glare sparkle coatings that Defbringer mentioned a few posts up. I am very sensitive to sparkles, and pretty much have to have glossy.

2. The vertical viewing angle issues of TN-film based displays. I have a 24 inch glossy gateway panel I bought in mid-2008 that I love, except for the traditional TN issue. I have zero problems with viewing on the horizontal axis, but the vertical axis drives me nuts.

Now, those two things said, I use my desktop computer 99% for gaming. Specifically, pretty high level of FPS (COD), SC2, and WoW.

Is there a TN panel I should be looking at that would have better vertical axis performance than my current gateway? Or is it possible I should consider a glossy IPS, and my fears of lag are overblown? Is there an IPS panel out there with TN-level responsiveness?

ETA: Did some forum reading. My gateway is a FHD2400, which is a decent glossy TN. I think, at the moment, I'm either looking at the asus vg236h for a TN, or the Dell U2311H/it's NEC equivalent for an IPS.

Also, I don't want a huge panel, as my current 24 already gives me some dizziness, so I'm thinking I might even prefer a 23 or 22 inch. I'd also love LED, and 120hz.
 
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