DOOM 3 system, please help me choose

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helmutt

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I posted this on the DOOM 3 hardware thread, and would like to see what you guys thought also. Please help if you can.

I have been out of gaming and building for over 10 years. Things have obviously changed a lot. After reading what you guys are doing these days, I am embarrassed to consider what I did as “building” back then. Anyway, I would like to get a system that will set me up for some awesome gaming, with DOOM 3 the top consideration (I have a few young kids that are ready to game).

Can anyone recommend an off-the-shelf system that would come close to matching the D3 Hardware Guide’s “ULTIMATE” system specs? Not likely, I am sure, after researching what you guys are putting into them to get them there, but it can’t hurt to ask.

If not, can anyone recommend a reputable company that does a good build at a good price?

Since this would be a family computer also, any comments on the other components (monitor, floppy drives, DVD RW, sound etc.) would be greatly appreciated. My disadvantage is that even the basic components have changed over the years, along with who the “good” manufacturers are, so I don’t know where to start.

ANY help is greatly appreciated. The anticipation of getting DOOM 3 pounding and sweating through my house is causing me a loss of sleep, literally. I can’t get it out of my mind. Help me here, please!!!!!!!!

Thanks,
Tom
Charleston, SC


MY BUDGET: I would like to spend less than 2k, but would do more if needed. For some ridiculous reason when I started this I thought I was going to get out of this for like $600.00!!!! It was a loose guess based on seeing shelf systems at Best Buy etc. I am realizing that this is going to cost more than I had thought. I should not complain, my last build, in about 1992:
4 mb ram - simms cost $550.00 !!!!!
Plextor 4x- $625.00 !!!!!!
These were absolutely state of the art.

Please follow-up with me if everyone can, this project is very important to me. After a few years of her bitching, my old lady has finally given in and will let my kids play Doom II. I don't want to let this opportunity go.

I have been looking at New Egg, do they build and send? Does anyone recommend them for that?

Thanks again, Tom
 
Why dont you read atleast one of the many thousands of hardware reviews every hardware site has posted on this subject and get the pro's advice lol
 
He wants something you could get off the shelf. If you really want to grab something off the shelf then go to alienware.com or you could(ugh) get an xps system from dell.

Honestly I would just build one, It would be a hell of alot cheaper and its a hell of alot easier than it was when you were building them.

Whatever your choice try to get at least a minimum(if your not overclocking)
P4 3.0 or amd64nonfx, for a gfx card try looking for a geforce6800(expensive but worth it) build around that and you should have a pretty speedy machine that can handle doom 3 at high rez and be under your $2000. Check out pricewatch.com and newegg.com for good pricees on drives etc. Look around the site more for info on everything. Oh as for the sound card, you must get an audigy 2zs, don't settle for the onboard audio of any mobo.
 
Any reasons besides thinking it would be to hard to build it yourself? You are going to get more of a system building your own.
 
if anything, building computers has become easier over the years. everything is color coded now. its pretty easy. just rtfm and you'll breeze through it. dont get a premade, you'll get ripped off. you wont get what you pay for. build it yourself, its a better deal, its a a learning experience, and its an important thing to be able to do in the future..oratleast i think so. i'd suggest atleast looking into it. its pretty easy to pickup.

2k is enough money to build just about whatever you want. you can do it for far less. depends on how high tech you really want your computer to be. if you want a lcd or a crt for a monitor. cause a lcd can run a good chunk of that money.
 
I pretty much agree with everyone else, DIY is the cheapest, and probably the best way to go. I like the Alienware suggestion :p, but ur also gonna spend upwards of 2500 bucks for their systems, but they are high quality. I've always drooled over them, but I have never gotten the chance to own/see one. I got my computer from an online company based in CA called IBuyPower. the website is www.ibuypower.com and it is a very good site. Their tech support is really nice, and they were able to help my problem. The only bad thing is, to get something fixed u gotta send it to CA, which is a hassle. The only problem I had was because I overclocked, and I didn't know how to fix it myself. But i soon learned, and now it happened again, and I fixed it myself. Dell sucks, IMO, because their high-end systems (excluding XPS) are horribly overpriced and ur better off just not getting a Dell period. Most of the other major manufacturors don't give you a great graphics card as an option, aka HP, Sony, Compaq, etc. I'm assuming you could ask them about putting a better one in, but it would cost money. The plus about buying from a company and not DIY is that you have tech support and a warranty, so if something goes wrong, u have something to fall back on. But, seeing as you seem tech savvy enough, you could easily learn how to tech support yourself, so the need for a retail PC is not as great. Also, for Doom 3, get some surround sound speakers. My $50 Z-640's rock with it.

Sorry for the ton of reading, I just finally felt like I could actually help someone in this forum....lol

Hope that helps,


Alex


EDIT: If you wanted parts, I can list some that aren't ungoldy pricey, but they will suit your need:

If you want an Intel, you should get at least 3GHz, but I would go with a 3.4GHz (non-EE) if you can. For AMD, i would go with the 64 3500, because its not too expensive. Motherboard is pretty much your preference for what features u want, so I'll let you decide that. RAM, I would suggest at least 512MB, probably Kingston Hyper-X, Corsair XMS, anything that is PC3200 and has low CAS latency (2-2-2-6 is really nice, but will burn through your wallet). You could get a higher CAS latency and get dual-channel 2x512, that's probably your best bet for Doom 3. I have 512MB of PC3200, just generic crap, and I'm doing Doom 3 on Medium and i'm getting like 50-60fps. I could go high, but that's like 40-50. For your video card, you should probably go with the next-gen ones, such as the X800 Pro, or the 6800GT. Its your preference, but people seem to like the GT better (from what i've read). I have a 9800 Pro, and i'm doing fine. The X800 and GT will go for $400 of so. For hard drives, you could get dual-raided raptors, and i always thought they were the best, but I would just get one WD 74GB 10k RPM raptor, and like a 120GB for storage. Put Doom 3 on the raptor and it will fly through loading. As for optical drives, I would suggest getting a DVD burner, probably an 8x, but you will be spending a lot for media.

I put this into NewEgg, and w/o a case and an OS, it was $1546. Here are the specs:

AMD Athlon 64 3500+
MSI K8N Neo Platinum Motherboard
MSI X800 Pro
Western Digital 74GB 10000RPM "Raptor"
1GB OCZ Enhanced Latency Dual Channel RAM
120GB Western Digital Caviar
Sony 8X DVD+/-RW Dual Layer

So, with an OS (Windows XP $100) and a case (~$80) you're at around $1726. This will last you a long time. It also helped that my friend has a $2000 price limit, and I'm helping him build one. Sorry again for the long reading. Hope this helps!

FINAL EDIT: I forgot about a monitor. Put however much money you have left into either a very high quality CRT (NEC makes good ones) or a lower quality LCD. CRTs go for around 150 to about 400-some. LCDs start at around 300 for a 15", but you'll want AT LEAST 17", and those get pricey. at least $400 for a good 17" LCD. they make 20" LCDs, but that's $1000 bucks gone right there. I would invest in a higher quality CRT, the have better refresh rates and can right high resolutions (1600x1200) very nicely.
 
You guys have all been great, the response was overwhelming and I really appreciate it.

As far as "sorry for the long reading", write a book here, if you could. The more I can read the better.

Everyones advice has been to shit the idea of a store box and just get over it and build one. I think you guys are right on that one, and that's what I am going to do. I used to spend days editing at the dos prompt and commands, just to get a basic vcard to run etc. etc.. I am told those days are long gone, so no need for me to worry too much.

Now I am fired up from all of your messages to get back into it, I need to be careful not to get to worked up and start ordering parts without thinking it through.

So for a starter question: the DOOM 3 hardware guide suggests the AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 and the BFG tech GeForce 6800 Ultra OC 256mb. I know that they are costly, what are your opinions here? Are they worth the 2nd job I would need?

Any further suggestions are greatly appreciated, and thanks for the encouragement.

TOM
 
So for a starter question: the DOOM 3 hardware guide suggests the AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 and the BFG tech GeForce 6800 Ultra OC 256mb. I know that they are costly, what are your opinions here? Are they worth the 2nd job I would need?
Click to expand...

AMD FX53 are definitely nice, but I don't think their marginal performance over a non-FX chip outweighs the extra cash. If you are going all-out, money is no object, they grab an FX-53. However, I do think the extra cash in a 6800 GT or Ultra is money well spent (or ATI X8000).
 
Also, according to the Ultimate Doom 3 hardware guide, the 6800 beats out ATi on this one, so if you want Doom to look the best, get the 6800. I would think that for overall better performance, you should get the x800 XT Platinum Edition if you can spare the cash (aka a second job, as you said :p). If not, I would go with the x800 Pro, I've heard a lot of good stuff about them, but also about the GT, so its your preference. The FX-53, unless you are willing to sell your arms and legs, is not needed. [H]'s Doom 3 guide just used the Athlon 64 3500+, I think, so you'd be more than fine with that setup. You would be playin Doom at like 1600x1200 and gettin like 50fps!!! Also, if you have any extra money, I would seriously reccomend surround sound. It will also last you because if you do get the HDD I reccomended and a TV Tuner, you have yourself a media center PC, w/o XP Media Center, which is a ripoff. If you can spare the cash, go with an FX-53 and an x800 XT PE (good luck finding any in stock). If not, get the 3400+ or the 3500+ (i think they are different sockets, so you'll have to find a motherboard for the 3500+, which, i think is socket 939, not sure). And if you can't afford or find an x800 XT PE, just get the x800 Pro, unless you find Nvidia better, then pick up a 6800GT or Ultra, but get ATi if you don't want to lose a PCI slot, because the Ultra's heatsinks are HUGE.

Hope that helps, and if you want to, get a CPU Heatsink/Fan like GlobalFear said, and if you want, overclock, but be careful with that.

Good luck,


Alex
 
A socket 754 cpu/mobo is definetly the way to go for a reasonable gaming/family pc.

Then save up for the latest graphics card. ATI or nVidia.
 
an amd 64fx will cost upwards of 800bucks for the chip and a 6800ultra will cost 500 bucks. My advice is get a nonfx amd64 and buy yourself a 6800gt. The only reason I would go with the gt is b/c it requires less power(300wpsu) than the ultra(500wpsu) and you'll save yourself 100 bucks also. U probably won't notice the difference between the ultra and the gt anyway.
 
I noticed I never posted the psu in the list! /me slaps self

Fized it. Also doom3 is not very cpu intensive so that 800 dollar chip isn't going to do anything for you. (niether is the sound card as sound is processed by the cpu. But, I figured you are going to be playing more than doom. HL2, FEAR, ect)
 
In doom? No it won't. Doom3 is not a cpu intensive game. Your 800 dollar chip will be way more than it needs. The two most important things with doom are memory and graphics card.
 
honestly, heres my take. i say go for the chip and the mb. its a future investment if nothing else. you can upgrade it later to 64 bit os/progs. just a good thing all around. not to mention faster than the 32. but, that also depends on if you are looking to get back into computers on a reg. basis and keep your machines updated and such. if its gonna be another 8 years, it doesn't really matter.
i would vere away from the 6800. its an amazingly great card, but if you are only talking about doom3 and many one or two other games, for the cost of the card. why not just pick up a cheaper 9800pro. i mean. nearly 600 for a video card that you wont use but maybe a few times vs a 130 dollar card that is still great. it depends on values i guess. i just stay stick with the 9800. it still runs nicely. it isn't worth killing yourself over.
 
GlobalFear said:
In doom? No it won't. Doom3 is not a cpu intensive game. Your 800 dollar chip will be way more than it needs. The two most important things with doom are memory and graphics card.
Click to expand...
anything that has to do with physics is processed by the CPU. and how come people that have lets say a 2.2Ghz CPU dont get the same performance as say a 2.6Ghz CPU? because the game plays better with a higher speed CPU, therefore CPU intensive.
yes you should get a good graphics card that i agree with and the memory also. memory is going to be a big thing in any newer PC game.
 
I'll pull out my issue of cgw and post the article with an interview from the devs in it tomorrow.

Somebody on the forums figured out doom and windows combined uses roughly 1800mb. That's why I reccomended two gigs.
 
whatever memory games cant use itll just go out to the paging file. i have 1 gig RAM and do see quite a difference between 512mb and 1gig. i dont know if there would that much of a noticable gain between 1-2gigs but i would like to find out. the next system i build will have 2gigs of ram and a lil over half a terabyte of HD space. the computer i have now will pretty much be a server computer in the next 5 years is what im guessing.
 
special thanks to:
globalfear: the parts list you made for me was great
cigolon: that Anandtech link was extremely useful to bring me back on hardware
alex: for the advice, you saved me from buying the Dell!!!

I am really glad you guys encouraged me to build again. I have been consumed with the project, and thank you guys for that.

Since my last post, I have been following up on the links et al that you guys have provided me. Reading lots of pages and comparing parts. This has left me with many questions, and I would like to pose them to you guys. I have gone to other forums and looked around, but direct answers, if you are willing to provide them, will get me further in the direction I need to go.

Already from your help and my f/u reasearch, I have been able to help 3 other guys in the forums that knew less than I did!

I put together a list of questions that I have, please help with any or all if you can. I appreciate all of the help already, so even if you don’t have the time, I understand. Maybe it would be easier to edit my page w/ answers? Also, add anything else that comes to mind as you think my situation over. I am going to continue to spend my spare time researching, and check back here to see if you guys are able to help.

a great thing: due to your encouragement, this weekend I grabbed a few of my old 486’s and set a table up in my basement. I have a 5, 7 and 9 year old that spent about 10 hours over the weekend tearing them apart and “figuring out” how they worked. They really got into taking all of the parts off/out, taking apart drives, chips (breaking them!!) various cards, cables etc. I forgot how much they could learn about “how things come apart and go back together” (although we didn’t put much back together, they got a big kick out of ripping shit off the cards and motherboards).

Sorry for the long post, but I figured the more I put out there the better, you could always ignore it!!!

So here I go: (please remember how much things have changed since I have done this, in case a question I ask sounds stupid or overly-simplistic).

1. DVD RW:
1.1. Does a DVD RW make copies of my DVD collection, like a back-up copy?
1.2. Can I put my VHS and high 8 tapes on DVD?
1.3. If so, do I need any other parts or software?
1.4. the one you recommend says “double layer”:
1.4.1. is that the same as “dual layer”?
1.4.2. is dual layer something I want? (I understand the higher capacity)
1.5. do you recommend a media brand and type?

2. OPERATING SYSTEM: what should I buy to use on this system?

3. CPU:
3.1. article I read said I may need thermal grease for the heat sink, how would I
know?
3.2. globalfear suggested 2 HS fans: I am old, and only remember putting one on
each CPU, can you elaborate?

4. MEMORY: the memory that globalfear recommended
4.1. is this Dual Channel (I understand this is better)
4.2. if I save money elsewhere, should I consider faster ram? like what?
4.3. I have been checking Anandtech, their price comparisons seem helpful, but I
don’t always know FOR SURE if I am comparing the same thing (wording
varies) that you guys recommended. Their link has the Corsair XMS 2 GB
(twinx2048-3200pro) globalfear recommended @ $100.00 less than the new
egg link.
4.3.1. Is this the same product? Please check this link if you have time: corsair
xms
4.3.2. would you buy that way? (noticed they come up with pretty good prices, and
some include free shipping)

5. VIDEO CARD:
5.1. another price break ($150.00 less) @ Anandtech, if you could check this link
also: 6800 ultra oc
5.2. the DOOM 3 hardware guide says the Ultra level is geared to the 512mb cards
not out yet, should I wait?
5.3. I read to wait for the 6800GT PCIe card this month, any validity to that?

6. SOUND:
6.1. is the CLSB audigy2 that was suggested a “5.1” whatever that means?
6.2. speaker system recommendations?

7. MODEM: basic dial-up I guess, any recommendations?

8. SOFTWARE: is there other software that I may need to keep this new machine
healthy?

9. I keep reading “update drivers for all components” type notes: is this very important
(updating drivers was a pain in the ass years ago)?

10. miscellaneous parts, connectors, cables (I read I should buy round cables instead
of the ribbon) etc. that I may not have or what I have is probably outdated: are there
things I need?

11. DISK CONTROLLER: I used to need a drive controller card (floppy disk, HD, com
ports), it used to take a ISA slot, then a PCI when they came around. Do I need
one?

12. I know I am pressing my luck, but this project has convinced me to put together a
basic machine that I need for work: word processing, excel, faxing, email, network
them eventually
12.1. Is this worth doing, or should I just buy off shelf?
12.2. this would have a whole different set of parts, could anyone recommend a
few? I usually buy like a $600. HP or Compaq for this application.

13. GAMES: maybe you have a few suggestions that would be great on this new box.
I like Doom, but not most shooter or action games. I like Horror, a lot. I read a
thread where guys suggested: Silent Hill 3, Clive Barker’s Undying, Fatal Frame,
Fatal Frame 2, System Shock 2, Realms of the Haunting and The Suffering.

I really am terribly sorry for the long post, and am greatly appreciative of any help.

Tom
 
Build it youself Athlon 64 system would be my #1 advice with an socket 754 motherboard/cpu if money is tight and a 939 pin system if moey isn't an issue. If you just don't think your up to the challenge at all then Monarch Computer would be a great place to check out. They offer everything from complete systems to Barebones systems completely set up and checked and motherboard combos. Anyone with any common sense should be just fine with a Barebone combo from them. It's almost idiot proof. :)
 
RancidWAnnaRIot said:
the title of this thread sounds like it's 3 months late....
Click to expand...

You're right, I suppose, if for some reason I needed this system ready for moment DOOM 3 was released to GP
 
If your leary about building it yourself you can just order the parts and take them down to your local computer shop. They'll build it for you for around $100. Of course, nothing beats doing it yourself.
 
RancidWAnnaRIot said:
the title of this thread sounds like it's 3 months late....
Click to expand...

Yeah well if your building a system with an A64 cpu cause now everyone is price gouging so your going to pay bigtime.

Same goes for the 6800 GT/Ultra or X800 GPU's.
 
okay, LONG POST AHEAD...I will answer as many of ur questions as i can, but i will hafta type quickly cuz my bus comes soon lol....anyway, here goes:

1.1: yes, it will, but u need to buy a DVD copy program (like $20, or kazaa ;-))
1.2: yes, you can, but you need some kind of composite in...i'm not an expert, so i can't help you there at least with specifics...i know they make external devices, but the quality should stay the same as a regular VHS...and the hi8 (camcorder, if i'm not mistaken) you need firewire ports (which i'm pretty sure the mobo has) and a cable (can be bought)
1.3: See above
1.4: yes, double layer is pretty much dual layer, but there is dual format, which is different, i'm sure you get that, so i won't explain it unless you want me to....and for the future, you shoud get dual layer, as its not a huge price addition
1.5: Umm...I found a sale for a 10-pack TDK 4x DVD+R for like 8 bucks at staples, but that sale is long gone, but look around online, you can get good media for a LOT cheaper if you search...pretty much any major brand that makes dvd burners makes media

2: I would use XP Home, you don't really need the extras of Pro, at least considering the extra money it is....and Linux, unless you know what you're doing, is VERY CONFUSING...at least it was to me, but you get the hang of it, but not much support device-wise, so XP Home is your best bet.

3.1: You will always need thermal grease, not to make you sound dumb, but i would go with Arctic Silver 5...its like 7 bucks (7.49 on newegg, i think) and its the best in the business....see their site for application instructions
3.2: I don't think i've ever seen 2 HS fans??? I'm used to seeing one, so i'm not sure, if he could elaborate, i'd like to know also!! lol

4.1: Didn't see the link, but, let's say its 1 gig, if it says "1GB (2x512)" you can bet its dual channel
4.2: The most any motherboard can truly support is PC3200, but you can always buy a higher rater memory and try to clock it up to its regular speed (aka PC3500)...i don't know the risks to your motherboard, but i would suggest getting high-end PC3200, intsead of mid-range PC3500
4.3-4.3.2: I would suggest Mushkin, they make very good inexpensive RAM....BUT i did find a brand called PDP, and it is very inexpensive (think 180 for a gig dual channel)

5.1: If you can find it anywhere (not ebay) where it is cheaper, BY ALL MEANS get it...lol, but check pricewatch and its reseller ratings just in case it sucks
5.2: Unless you REALLY WANT TO, which, the wait for me is impossible sometimes, go ahead, wait, but i wouldn't, i would really be anxious to wait for SLI (dual vid cards) but still get a high end card, your ultra will come in handy with SLI
5.3: PCI-E is not that great, don't wait for it soon, it won't be "mainstream" till a few years (next year, two years probly)

6.1: I think any PCI sound card is at least 5.1 now, but I can guarentee that an Audigy 2 is at least 5.1, it might be 7.1 even
6.2: If you want ultimate high end, look into some Logitech Z-680s, very nice, but MUCHO DOLARES (lots of money...lol), so you could look to the "lower end" of the Z series, to the Z-640s, they are like $55 on newegg, and i love them

7: You know, two years ago, i would have told you "its integrated" but i'm pretty sure its just ethernet that's integrated now. You might hafta buy a 56K card, but they aren't expensive...brand doesn't really matter, its practically all the same

8: Some kind of anti-virus...norton is really good, mcaffee, unless anyone has had problems with it, is good, or you could get one called AVG, its free, and i like it, but you might like norton better....definitely get Ad-Aware and Spybot: Search and Destory (both free) and you should be okay

9: Updating your mobo's BIOS is the most "pain-in-the-ass" thing to update, cuz you need a floppy, other than that, its as easy as going to the company's website and downloading (ouch with the 56k) drivers....vid card drivers are gonna hurt you with ur dial-up

10: A lot of mobo's nowadays come with either rounded or just plain ribbon cables, your choice...if you want a clean PC case, get rounded, they aren't expensive

11: Don't think so, if i get what you are asking, they are all built in to the mobo (floppy port, IDE port, etc.)

12.1: If you want it to be customized, then by all means build it yourself...but if you want the security of a manufacturer, which i do reccomend, get an HP or a Compaq. They make good computers for that.
12.2: just get a basic proc. possibly P4, you don't really need a high-end anything for word processing, just get Office XP Professional and you're set

13: It depends what games you like, if you like RTS (real-time strategy) pick up warcraft 3 or starcraft, or something more realistic, like Empire Earth or something of the sort....if you like TBS (turn-based strategy) then definitely get civilization 3 and maybe one or both of its expansion packs, i don't play turn-based games, so i can't help you too much...if you want a shooter, pick up my favorite (and IMO the best game EVER) Unreal Tournament 2004, it is a FPS, but it is the best game; the replayability is just sooo high, but you won't like it with online with ur 56k...if you want any online game i would get either cable, or DSL...if its not available, damn that sucks :p, i'm lucky, my street is the only street in my neighborhood that gets 2-way cable!!

Well, sorry if it seems as though i rushed, my bus is coming in about 20 minute...lol, hope this helps, and sorry for the long post again.....


just post or PM me if you want more help



Alex
 
Alex and Globalfear,
many thanks again, your help has been greatly appreciated. I will do my share and help others as I learn the trade again.

Tom
 
sure no problem, see, its fun, cuz i get to see what kind of computer i COULD have, if i had any money whatsoever....lol....just glad to help


good luck with ur purchase,


alex
 
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