DRM slows down Vista?

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duby229 said:
What question do I need to answer?
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It's about keeping tabs on unprotected content. Which is what I was referring to.
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You need to provide proof that if you are playing say your family vid in 1980*1080 H.264 through a HDCP setup it will automagically decide to play it at 960x540.

As for HDCP TV proliferation obviously TV sold before 2006 pritty much won't have it. So if someone would just do some counting I say the majority is still not HDCP ready.
 
You really should read up on HDCP. It's a lot more complicated than the ICT flag. The ICT flag is only part of it, and really isnt a concern.
 
......or that if you are making a copy of that family video you'll be prevented from doing so, Or.....

Vista is here. People are performing legitimate tasks. Vista's acknowledgement of the realities of content distribution isn't preventing them from doing so. The claims that Vista would do that are incorrect.
 
duby229 said:
You really should read up on HDCP. It's a lot more complicated than the ICT flag. The ICT flag is only part of it, and really isnt a concern.
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I think you are the one who needs to.
"The Image Constraint Token applies on a per disc basis,"

I'll repeat: HDCP doesn't give a shit about unprotected content. Or contents that the studio choose not to restrict, it is a switch that is currently off and as far as I can see will stay off for the years to come (Not like it matters if it ever get turned on considering how it's already cracked).

And you are still ignoring the question about providing proof to your FUD.
 
Catweazle said:
......or that if you are making a copy of that family video you'll be prevented from doing so, Or.....

Vista is here. People are performing legitimate tasks. Vista's acknowledgement of the realities of content distribution isn't preventing them from doing so. The claims that Vista would do that are incorrect.
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Copying that disk is an issue with AACS, not HDCP. HDCP is simply an issue with distribution to other devices in your household.

Which by the way is completely legal, so why is HDCP even here? Why?
 
Hypernova said:
I think you are the one who needs to.
"The Image Constraint Token applies on a per disc basis,"

I'll repeat: HDCP doesn't give a shit about unprotected content.

And you are still ignoring the question about providing proof to your FUD.
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FUD is it? Your the one who is saying that HDCP doesnt do anything... Why does it exist then? Why even bother with it, if it doesnt do anything? Whats the point?

As soon as you can answer these questions, I'll talk further with you, but until then.... Bye
 
duby229 said:
FUD is it? Your the one who is saying that HDCP doesnt do anything... Why does it exist then? Why even bother with it, if it doesnt do anything? Whats the point?

As soon as you can answer these questions, I'll talk further with you, but until then.... Bye
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Movie studios want to control how their stuff is distributed, how hard is it to understand? This started all the way back when VCR's came around. They want to have the ability should they choose to do so but that doesn't mean they have to use it.

And you are still avoiding the question.
 
errmmmm.......

He didn't say that HDCP doesn't do anything. you're the one suggesting that Hypernova said that ;)
 
Hypernova said:
Movie studios want to control how their stuff is distributed, how hard is it to understand? This started all the way back when VCR's came around. They want to have the ability should they choose to do so but that doesn't mean they have to use it.

And you are still avoiding the question.
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Yep, And I have the right to distribute that content in my home. So again I ask, what is the point?
 
In my country of residence you don't even have the legal right to play it back if you are using any form of technology which circumvents copy protection which has been put in place by the publisher.

Please don't misrepresent the situation.
 
Catweazle said:
In my country of residence you don't even have the legal right to play it back if you are using any form of technology which circumvents copy protection which has been put in place by the publisher.

Please don't misrepresent the situation.
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In my country we have fair use laws, which makes most of these copy protections illegal. Please dont assume that you are the only one who exists.
 
We have fair use laws here in Australia too. We also arguably have considerably better consumer protection laws than exist in most other countries. Please don't assume that you are the only one who exists, or that your local circumstances are superior to those of others elsewhere.
 
Catweazle said:
We have fair use laws here in Australia too. We also arguably have considerably better consumer protection laws than exist in most other countries. Please don't assume that you are the only one who exists, or that your local circumstances are superior to those of others elsewhere.
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Superior? Where do you get this stuff? As far as I'm concerned you me and everybody else are exactly equal. I've seen enough oppression to know better, and I'm not about to be told anything otherwise from somebody who doesnt live in my shoes. If you dont like that you are my equal sorry, but you'll just have to deal with it. Same as me and everybody else. Nothing will ever be given to you on a golden platter. Me you and everybody else have to earn the living we get.

The only thing I said was that HDCP is in fact a method to prevent distribution of non protected content... It's a fact. It's already been discussed earlier in this thread.

I have the right to distribute non protected content in my own home, for my own use. HDCP makes this illegal.
 
You're repeating a contention which has been negated. Other people are distributing non-protected content in their own homes. Why isn't it possible in yours?
 
Catweazle said:
You're repeating a contention which has been negated. Other people are distributing non-protected content in their own homes. Why isn't it possible in yours?
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HDCP.... You dont know anything about case law? You think the RIAA has been suing everybody for the money? HDCP is an attempt to set precedence.
 
duby229 said:
Already has. Read the thread.
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Er... No you haven't.

Anyway this thread is already waaay off topic if you read the first post.
And here's my take on the driver issue. Every thing has a first time and driver development been hampered by having to write Vista driver is really moot since For years now most vendors had to maintain seperate drivers for XP and 98 and there was a lot of bitching back then. Once ATI/nVedia get their initial code base up and running for Vista I don't foresee any issues.
 
duby229 said:
HDCP is NOT about protected content... It never was. It's about keeping tabs on unprotected content. Which is what I was referring to.
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Give us a clear example please, with a link to what you are talking about, because at this point, I don't even know what you are talking about. You keep repeating yourself. I'm sure you have a clear point in there somewhere, but you are not providing any proof to add to the discussion. Not trying to say I don't believe you, but if you are going to make statements such as this, please give us something to help back it up. By not doing so, you are simply derailing the thread from the original topic of how DRM supposedly slows down Vista performance.

What is a clear cut example of how DRM is keeping tabs on unprotected content? That is my question.
 
duby229 said:
HDCP is NOT about protected content... It never was. It's about keeping tabs on unprotected content. Which is what I was referring to.
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You can play your unprotected content wherever you want. NOTHING changes that. If you have HDCP or not. Nothing changes that. I can take unprotected MPEG or AVI files, burn to a DVD and play it in my set top that has HDCP and my display which also has it. I can plug my computer into my display which had HDCP but my video card does not and it will still play.
You can even use your PC to capture HD content via an antenna without HDCP video cards and displays.

Nothing, nowhere, will stop you from doing whatever the hell you want with your unprotected content. NOTHING. HDCP or otherwise. If you have HDCP source and display it encrypts between source and display. This is ONLY when playing it. It has not permanently been encrypted and it won't be prevented from you making a million copies of your unprotected content. It's ONLY purpose is the make sure nothing can intercept that signal between your computer and your monitor. Which doesn't even matter because nobody captures content that way. So HDCP and your unprotected content will not affect anything you care about doing. You won't even know it's there. It makes zero difference. You can play it without HDCP and you can play it with. No difference.

The ONLY thing HDCP is used for is protected HD content. Protected HD-DVD's and Blue Ray. If you want to play them you need a HDCP video card or set top box and a HDCP monitor, TV or Projector. This is NOT limited or exclusive to PC's or Vista. Everything must comply with this. And your set top has to use HDMI or DVI or the signal will be degraded. Componenet, while providing an HD signal, will still be downgraded with protected formats.
So how does this affect you? If you want to play protected content on a PC then just get HDCP compliant video card and display. Done. If you don't care about playing HD-DVD movies or Blue Ray movies on your PC then none of this matters. Your set top players and TV are already compliant so it doesn't even matter.

If you want to back up these protected discs you buy, go right ahead. The copy protection has already been cracked and programs will soon be released to making copying very easy.
 
Here is a place where you can find all the information about HDCP that is publicly available. It is not a complete source, but it has enough information on it to show what HDCP is, and does.

http://www.digital-cp.com/home

Read it, and make your own conclusions. Based on this information, and others I made my conclusion. I explained my conclusion, and gave examples of my conclusion. What more do you want?

Read it over and make your own.
 
Content encrypted by AACS is decrypted by the PC or set-top box for processing, and then re-encrypted to send back out to the TV set via HDCP. Thus, your argument about "encrypting content that's already encrypted" is incorrect.

HDCP is only activated when content providers request it. Eventually, when AACS is cracked and someone makes HD-DVD Decrypter, you'll be able to play HD-DVDs without any sort of encryption or image constraint.

Odoe is right, you're derailing this thread. Either provide some proof, or stop simply repeating yourself over and over.
 
duby229 said:
Here is a place where you can find all the information about HDCP that is publicly available. It is not a complete source, but it has enough information on it to show what HDCP is, and does.

http://www.digital-cp.com/home

Read it, and make your own conclusions. Based on this information, and others I made my conclusion. I explained my conclusion, and gave examples of my conclusion. What more do you want?

Read it over and make your own.
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Your conclusions are incorrect. You are misinterpreting the info or simply do not understand what you are reading.

I have done all of the things I have talked about first hand. Protected and unprotected content. So I know first had how all of this works.
 
duby229 said:
Here is a place where you can find all the information about HDCP that is publicly available. It is not a complete source, but it has enough information on it to show what HDCP is, and does.

http://www.digital-cp.com/home

Read it, and make your own conclusions. Based on this information, and others I made my conclusion. I explained my conclusion, and gave examples of my conclusion. What more do you want?

Read it over and make your own.
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I just did, and I don't see anything in there that supports your conclusion.

Please, cite a specific passage from those documents that supports your conclusion.
 
Archer75 said:
Your conclusions are incorrect. You are misinterpreting the info or simply do not understand what you are reading.

I have done all of the things I have talked about first hand. Protected and unprotected content. So I know first had how all of this works.
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There is no way you could have reviewed the data on that site in such a short amount of time....

Read over it, and see what HDCP does and doesnt, then make your own conclusions based on data, not opinion.
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
I just did, and I don't see anything in there that supports your conclusion.

Please, cite a specific passage from those documents that supports your conclusion.
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In just a few minutes you reviewed the data on the site, and concluded that there is nothing relevent there? Then you expect me to describe an encryption technology with a passge?

Ok.... Just look at the data and make your own conclusion.
 
duby229 said:
In just a few minutes you reviewed the data on the site, and concluded that there is nothing relevent there? Then you expect me to describe an encryption technology with a passge?

Ok.... Just look at the data and make your own conclusion.
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I have.

Most of the content there seems to deal with technical details of how HDCP works, not whether or not it is enforced on content that's not designed to take advantage of it.

Again, either show us material that supports your conclusion, or stop derailing my thread.
 
I'll put it another way for you. There is nothing Linux can do with unprotected content that Vista cannot.
However Vista can play full resolution protected HD content and Linux cannot.
 
Archer75 said:
I'll put it another way for you. There is nothing Linux can do with unprotected content that Vista cannot.
However Vista can play full resolution protected HD content and Linux cannot.
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This is not an issue about Linux. It's about HDCP support in windows. Dont try to change the topic.
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
I have.

Most of the content there seems to deal with technical details of how HDCP works, not whether or not it is enforced on content that's not designed to take advantage of it.

Again, either show us material that supports your conclusion, or stop derailing my thread.
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Which is entirely the issue at hand... Read it, you'll find it very interesting.
 
duby229 said:
This is not an issue about Linux. It's about HDCP support in windows. Dont try to change the topic.
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You are so lost as to what the topic even is.

We have already covered how HDCP does absolutely nothing restrictive with unprotected content in Vista or anywhere else for that matter.
 
Archer75 said:
You are so lost as to what the topic even is.

We have already covered how HDCP does absolutely nothing restrictive with unprotected content in Vista or anywhere else for that matter.
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If you'd read the link I gave you, you would then know what it does, and doesnt do.... Until then....
 
duby229 said:
Which is entirely the issue at hand... Read it, you'll find it very interesting.
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I told you, I did read it.

I couldn't find anything which supported your argument. Thus, just giving us the location of the source is no longer enough. Quote the content of the source that led you to the conclusion that HDCP is used to encrypt content like AVIs and MP3s.

This is the third time I've asked you to do this. Again, provide proof, or stop derailing the thread!
AACS is not HDCP.
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No, but HDCP is the encrypted bus that content encrypted in AACS uses to get to the output device.
 
duby229 said:
If you'd read the link I gave you, you would then know what it does, and doesnt do.... Until then....
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I have. You are misinterpreting the info. You don't have the first clue as to what is says or how it affects anything.
I do, as I deal with everything you seem to think I am unable to do.
 
This is pointless. It took me over week to study the information on that site. You guys seem to look at it in less then one minute and you think you understand it.

Well, I'm outta here, have fun playing with HDCP, and AACS, and whatever other restrictions are imposed on you.
 
Duby, look at this.

It's a license agreement for a content provider who wants to use HDCP. Meaning, a content provider has to pay the companies that made HDCP if they want HDCP to encrypt their content as it travels to the output device.

If you have to pay to get a license for HDCP, how the hell can it be enforced on every unlicensed MP3 and AVI?
 
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