eBay To Ban Negative Seller Views

Krakn3Dfx said:
Up until a few weeks ago, I would have thought this was crap. My Ebay account is 9 years old as of this month, and I have never had a negative feedback until I bought a trombone for my daughter for XMas from kkmusicstore. We opened it XMas morning, and the case holding the trombone was decimated during shipping due to poor packing. I emailed kkmusicstore immediatey and was told that since it was after the 7 day period, they wouldn't do anything for me (it was more like 11 days, since we normally don't open XMas gifts UNTIL XMAS!). So I posted NEUTRAL feedback on them mentioning that they wouldn't help due to waiting 11 days to report instead of 7. They went and posted negative feedback on me for my neutral feedback.

Screw them, I just fired off an email to them with the link to this article and a big "F*** YOU SCUMBAGS" tagged to the end.
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They shouldn't have responded to neutral with negative, but it was your fault.
 
I had a buyer who bought a game from me, then after the auction ended she tried to get me ship it priority. I stated that in the auction that I was going to ship it first class, then she got the package TWO DAYS LATER and complained because it wasn't shipped priority. She could give me negative feedback and I couldn't do anything in return, even though I did everything right on my end.

I didn't give her feedback, she didn't give me feedback. It all worked out.
 
When a buyer has less than perfect feedback, does it really matter?

Is a seller going to say "Your feedback isn't good, I will not sell to you"

I can understand if the buyer has like 30 out of 50 negatives, but otherwise, no one will give up making money on a sale to someone who has a couple of negatives.

On the other hand, I am primarily a seller, and I leave negative feedback to those who leave it first for me that do not contact me.

When you leave negative feedback, there is a page that comes up that says "PLEASE CONTACT THE OTHER PARTY FIRST TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE", and that is part of ebay policy -- That you will try to work out your deal with the other party first before resorting to other methods, of which feedback is one of them.

I leave negative feedback stating that the buyer does not attempt to resolve the issue as dictated by ebay policy.

I can understand some of the cases where you tried to work with the seller for a while, only to get ripped off... but you did, and if you got a negative, it is what, one out of a hundred? will the next seller not sell to you because of that? no way.. they want to make the sale...

So, this new change is hogwash... :mad:
 
I think the new system goes too far. Non-paying bidders are already a huge problem. Now with no way to call them on it, the problem is going to explode. What is to stop buyers from bidding on 10 similar items and then only paying for the one they win at the lowest cost? I've been an ebayer since 1999, but between this and the ever higher fees, my selling days are over.
 
I just got one question, is this retroactive?

i totally agree with this policy. While it does noticeably have its pitfalls, as a full time buyer i often get annoyed at the childish games that sellers play. Once i pay in a timely manner my job is over, technically a serll should leave my feedback right then and there, but of course they always hold back, either because they're dicks and "dont leave feedback" or they're waiting to retaliate in case they did a crappy job and you intend to let them know it.

All i know is the one negative feedback i have is from a guy who never responded to my emails and didnt follow my instructions about shipping and the shipment ended up being delayed getting to me and almost lost, so i left his asas negative feedback, and of course the first thing he does is leave me the same right back, claiming i pestered him (he never communicated) and that i harrassed him (again, sending multiple emails when he doesnt respond is not harassing).

Then he pulled some BS about him having a lawyer and suing me if i contacted him again (again, all because i left him negative feedback and then debunked any lies he said about me).

So yeah i like this policy, too bad it may not work retroactively, because i would love for that assclowns lies to be revoked off my record.
 
Looks to me like most the people that are happy about this policy are part-time buyers that may have had a bad experience with a seller or two. Guess what - for every 1 seller that is bad, there is probably 100 deadbeat buyers, and you only find out about this after you put your time in selling stuff.

My prediction is that this (along with overall HUGE FEE INCREASES, NOT DECREASES as eBay has just lied to us - do they honestly think we are all morons? They lower the listing fees by 5 cents and up the final value from 5% to 9%, WTF?) change will turn the honest sellers off, and the net result will be a much worse buying experience due to a higher proportion of seedy ones, who don't give a damn. Yeah, way to go indeed.

eBay is past its prime of relevance, they are constantly messing with a thing that worked, and are turning it into a turnip.
 
gibster said:
Looks to me like most the people that are happy about this policy are part-time buyers that may have had a bad experience with a seller or two. Guess what - for every 1 seller that is bad, there is probably 100 deadbeat buyers, and you only find out about this after you put your time in selling stuff.

My prediction is that this (along with overall HUGE FEE INCREASES, NOT DECREASES as eBay has just lied to us - do they honestly think we are all morons? They lower the listing fees by 5 cents and up the final value from 5% to 9%, WTF?) change will turn the honest sellers off, and the net result will be a much worse buying experience due to a higher proportion of seedy ones, who don't give a damn. Yeah, way to go indeed.

eBay is past its prime of relevance, they are constantly messing with a thing that worked, and are turning it into a turnip.
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I couldn't have said it better. In the future you'll find my stuff listed on Craigs List, the f/s/t forums like HardOCP and maybe Amazon for certain things. Enough is enough.
 
Rockhammer said:
I couldn't have said it better. In the future you'll find my stuff listed on Craigs List, the f/s/t forums like HardOCP and maybe Amazon for certain things. Enough is enough.
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Ironically, I calculated the fees for selling a $30 item (book, computer game, whatever), and Amazon Marketplace actually came out more expensive than eBay in terms of fees (thanks to Amazon's huge cut of the final value). After the big fee increase though, Amazon would look a lot more tempting to somebody selling a relatively small-ticket item...
 
Monkey God said:
They shouldn't have responded to neutral with negative, but it was your fault.
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I guess, the thing was, the box was totally fine on the outside, which makes me wonder if it was damaged when they shipped it. Of course, I can't prove that, but after talking to them over the phone, I get the feeling it's not something they're above doing, plus, they has quite a bit of negative feedback as of late.

On the plus side, the trombone itself was fine, so I picked up another case on the cheap and all is good, except for my first negative feedback, which bothers me more than it probably should, I just know I'm a good person and would be the better person in these situation, hence my only neutral feedback for them.
 
Krakn3Dfx said:
I guess, the thing was, the box was totally fine on the outside, which makes me wonder if it was damaged when they shipped it. Of course, I can't prove that, but after talking to them over the phone, I get the feeling it's not something they're above doing, plus, they has quite a bit of negative feedback as of late.

On the plus side, the trombone itself was fine, so I picked up another case on the cheap and all is good, except for my first negative feedback, which bothers me more than it probably should, I just know I'm a good person and would be the better person in these situation, hence my only neutral feedback for them.
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I feel your pain, but if you went past their communicated return date, the fault was yours not theirs. Thats all I was saying. If they shipped a messed up case in a box that was undamaged....well thats a different issue altogether.
 
farfromhome said:
Ironically, I calculated the fees for selling a $30 item (book, computer game, whatever), and Amazon Marketplace actually came out more expensive than eBay in terms of fees (thanks to Amazon's huge cut of the final value).
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I mentioned that back on page 1 about those categories. Video games, books and CDs/DVDs have a 15% fee, almost everything else is 8% + $0.99. I may have sold 25 or so items on ebay last year, but I sold at least 3x more on Amazon. Many things that aren't even worth selling on ebay are worth selling on amazon (the opposite is also true though).

The best part about the Amazon Marketplace is that many items sell for significantly better prices than ebay and there's very little hassle involved for either buyers or sellers. Amazon takes the order and if there's any buyer fraud, amazon takes the hit, not the seller. With A-to-Z covering all buyers, it's also a much safer place to buy from than ebay. Amazon has also made some positive changes to the marketplace lately (user generated content for the main product pages), in a huge contrast to ebay.
 
pxc said:
The best part about the Amazon Marketplace is that many items sell for significantly better prices than ebay and there's very little hassle involved for either buyers or sellers. Amazon takes the order and if there's any buyer fraud, amazon takes the hit, not the seller. With A-to-Z covering all buyers, it's also a much safer place to buy from than ebay. Amazon has also made some positive changes to the marketplace lately (user generated content for the main product pages), in a huge contrast to ebay.
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Definitely agreed there. If it has what you want, Amazon Marketplace is just so much more a pleasant place as a buyer. Buying (and selling I'm sure) on eBay always feels like so much of a crap shoot.
 
All this is going to do is cause people not to leave feedback at all anymore.

Why should I as a seller leave any feedback at all if I cant leave honest feedback.

I had a guy bid on an auction of mine...he won, but I didnt hear from him for over 3 weeks. I left negative ffedback about being a non paying bidder, submitted a nonbid complaint with ebay and relisted the item. it sold. then 2 weeks later I get a negative feedback from the first bidder complaining that he was on his honeymoon and I wouldnt give him a break?!?!? That was news to me...since he hadn't emailed me at all.

I ended up offering to withdraw the feedback and he did, but it still pisses me off that even after the auction relisted and sold to another buyer he was able to leave me negative feedback for something that was his fault entirely.

My other complaint is that as a seller I leave feedback as soon as I get paid, but I never recieve any feedback for over half my sales. even if I request it from them.

The whole feedback system is a joke. They should just dump it and only list nonpaying bidders or sellers that dont ship.
 
One more thought on the new feedback policy changes - although I think the notion of "holding the feedback hostage", or whatever it's called, is ludicrous (take yourselves a little less seriously, people), I think now there will be NO INCENTIVE WHATSOEVER for the sellers to leave any feedback. In fact, with the new rules, if I still use eBay, as a seller I will now make damn sure that feedback was left for me first before leaving any in return (tell me again why would I bother?). After a certain point, sellers don't need any more feedback, you can do fine business with just 20+ positive feedback, you don't need 10K+, in fact, that is not so desirable really.
That brings me to another point - once a seller account is "poisoned" with negative FB (which will likely happen a lot more now), what's to stop them from creating a fresh account? eBay is simply making FB totally irrelevant with this move, without a balanced FB system it will be a complete joke, if it is not already.
 
NiViK said:
Why should I as a seller leave any feedback at all if I cant leave honest feedback.
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That was the problem before as a buyer. I kind of agree that they threw the baby out with the bathwater though. It would have been better IMHO if they had shortened the time to 30 days (with an extension to the 60 if both buyer and seller agree, for stuff with really long shipping times), then only showed the feedback for either once both had given feedback until the 30 days were up. That would have solved it right there I'd think.
 
himmy said:
(too long to quote...please click link to re-read)
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Himmy, I agree with most of what you say. Just as many buyers use feedback to extort sellers as do sellers against buyers. There really is NO good solution. It's too bad that a few rotten eggs ruin it for everyone. Of course, it's only the honest EBay'ers that'll get hurt by any of this.

mdameron said:
As a buyer, I've had my feedback held hostage more than I'd like to count... can you offer some other idea that could fix that problem?
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Yeah, I've been the target of unwarranted feedback retaliation, too. It hurts me more than typical buyers, because I also SELL from the same ID. But, I don't back down and I don't retract. PERIOD. The only reason feedback extortion exists is because of all the prideful weenies that give in to save their precious 100%. Honestly people... feedback scores are not a merit of your personal worth!! Start REFUSING to mutually withdraw and feedback retaliation will start to wane.
mdameron said:
The buyer should only be left feedback when he sends money, that's all he agreed to do.
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I don't agree.

As a buyer, I appreciate sellers who are confident enough to leave feedback immediately after payment. These are usually the sellers with outstanding service excellence.

But, I completely understand sellers that wait to leave feedback. Not for extortion, but to rate the overall transaction. Buying an item is more than just making quick payment. As a part-time seller, I wait to be sure that the person isn't using a stolen CC, or a hi-jacked PayPal acct., or that the person isn't gonna make some absurd claim. Believe me, if they're out to scam me of my item and money, it's going into their feedback. Well, it used to anyway. :rolleyes:

Tolyngee said:
I wish they'd get rid of the feedback system altogether and allow everyone and anyone to just SEE what the private communication is between buyer/seller POST-auction...

Instead of feedback, just allow the communication between the two parties to be viewed by all... Just remove any private info...

I think that would cut out a lot of the baloney at Ebay...
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O..M..G.... :eek:

Every seller that has ever scammed me, usually transforms into a volcanic hot-head spewing fountains of profanity and personal insults, from the moment you mention an issue with the item. If only the public could read THOSE messages.

One thing I've learned is to judge EBay'ers by their FEEDBACK LEFT FOR OTHERS, more than feedback received. It tells so much more about the person.
 
I like the new rules for the most part. Though I think the seller should be allowed to give negative feedback in ONE case; when the buyer doesn't pay. And since most payment is via PayPal, EBAY will usually know if payment was made and could then disallow neg feedback.

I have only sold one thing on ebay (a car) but have purchased many things. I have just one negative feedback on my record. I bought a big ticket item about 6 years ago. I paid immediately and it was months until I received the item. So I left negative feedback to which the seller retaliated. That's BS, I met my end of the deal when I sent payment. What did that teach me? No matter how bad the seller screws you, don't leave neg feedback if you value your own feedback track record.

Similarly my wife had a clean ebay record with much positive feedback. Until she bought me a Porsche 928 Transformer toy last year. It was missing the rear window. When she complained, the seller filed neg feedback on her. That's ridiculous.
 
A thought just came to mind. If EBay owns Paypal now, why don't sellers get automatic refund of selling fees after winning a dispute?

Oh that's right. 'Cause Ebay itself is crooked too.

There really needs to be a decent alternative.
 
Krakn3Dfx said:
Up until a few weeks ago, I would have thought this was crap. My Ebay account is 9 years old as of this month, and I have never had a negative feedback until I bought a trombone for my daughter for XMas from kkmusicstore. We opened it XMas morning, and the case holding the trombone was decimated during shipping due to poor packing. I emailed kkmusicstore immediatey and was told that since it was after the 7 day period, they wouldn't do anything for me (it was more like 11 days, since we normally don't open XMas gifts UNTIL XMAS!). So I posted NEUTRAL feedback on them mentioning that they wouldn't help due to waiting 11 days to report instead of 7. They went and posted negative feedback on me for my neutral feedback.

Screw them, I just fired off an email to them with the link to this article and a big "F*** YOU SCUMBAGS" tagged to the end.
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So, you bought something (probably not new) on ebay, got it, and didn't think to open the package prior to wrapping it up and putting it under the tree? :confused:
 
pxc said:
:rolleyes:

Yeah, because it's only sellers who abuse negative feedback...........
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just what I said


kmoed said:
Feedback is based on the transaction to its completion, not based on the fact that a buyer just makes payment.

I have sold many things on eBay. I always offerer multiple shipping options for buyers to suit everyone's needs. Some people want items the next day, others want to pay as little for possible for shipping.

So buyer purchases item, Chooses cheapest shipping option(2-3 week delivery time). Received item within a week and half, then leaves negative feedback because"shipping was slow'.

Why as a seller should I give a moron like this positive feedback and take one on the chin?

It should go both ways or be completely scrapped.
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To all those who say that a buyer should recieve a +FB as soon as they pay, what about the retarded buyer in the above quote? What is your answer to THAT?:rolleyes:
 
Zefram0911 said:
Ebay is going down the tubes. I'm mostly a seller on ebay and I don't see how this makes me want to see more items on ebay. Where's my protection?
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Agreed- I have been shafted hard by Ebay, they suck.

One example- A seller never shipped my stuff, I never got my money back. 2 years later the same seller is selling my stuff on Ebay and it took me over a week to prove to Ebay that the stuff was mine and the seller had been banned. And even then it was after I screamed "Lawyers are being launched" I did all the legwork for Ebay providing addresses, invoices, pictures, etc.

Guess what? The seller sold my stuff, collected his money and closed his account.

Ebay dragged their feet to the point it was too late to do anything, I got shafted twice. They don't give a crap as long as they keep collecting the cash.
 
Toefur said:
I think a seller should be able to give negatives before they receive feedback, in case of dead beat bidders, etc, but not after they've received feedback, since those are usually retaliatory. I'm sure worrying about retaliatory feedback has caused many buyers to give mediocre or poor sellers a good feedback rating just because they didn't want to take the chance. I know I've done it when I've felt it's not worth the hassle. If there was no worry about retaliation, then I'm sure I'd have given out more negatives or neutrals.
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munkle said:
This is how it should be, I don't leave feedback for a seller until they leave me feedback as the buyer since I have seen to many times sellers leaving bad feedback just because they got bad feedback.
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Couldn't agree more. Wish eBay has thought to implement this sort of system. Far too often I will skip leaving negative feedback for a buyer/seller who deserves as much, for fear of unwarranted retaliation. Sadly, its future users who suffer the lack of an accurate "feedback" system.

If only the Feds would give Paypal the swift kick in the nuts they strongly deserve -- excessive fees, STILL next to non-existant support, grossly inadequate dispute system (21 days my ass), and ridiculous lack of user options (can't set a credit card as default payment source) -- eBay and PayPal could actually be worthy of their market share.
 
shinryuu said:
When a buyer has less than perfect feedback, does it really matter?
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I think it does. The reason I say this is because when I buyer doesn't pay, leaves bad feedback because they fucked up(when I use to sell a lot of shit I had some bad feedback because someone decides they don't want the item and would leave feedback before even paying or contacting me), etc it shows a little about them. If they go to sell something I want to know they were worthless as a buyer. If they bitch and moan and try to cheat or screw someone over when buying stuff they will do it selling stuff.

I use to sell modchips, video game systems(repaired ones), system parts, etc before sony pushed ebay to ban mod chip sales. We still sold some repaired systems, used games, stuff we imported from japan, etc after that but pretty much got out of it.

Mind you this was really before paypal. We had a few negitives because someone didn't get their stuff in a week. Yea it doesn't matter that the money order they sent a day or 2 after the auction took 3 days to get to us and we shiped the next day. Stupid people. Makes us look bad because someone is too stupid to realize that if you send a check or money order it takes a few days to get to someone. Same thing where someone would order a mod chip or an internal part(optical pickup, power supply, etc). We would check and have a negitive left because they didn't verify it was the right part for their system(something we would always mention to check in the auction) or they didn't know how to install it(which we also had a warning against). These people should be marked for being not worth dealing with. Hell I wouldn't trust giving them my money, would you?

Remember people don't just buy or sell. They buy and sell.
 
It's about time. They need to stop sellers from starting a new identity when their rating gets to low as well. There is one group with several store names that are the same people, "collectionstop", selling the same DVD's and screwing people. They get down to 98% they start another seller account.
 
CMJ said:
It's about time. They need to stop sellers from starting a new identity when their rating gets to low as well. There is one group with several store names that are the same people, "collectionstop", selling the same DVD's and screwing people. They get down to 98% they start another seller account.
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You have got to be kidding me.

Lets just forget about the whole feedback leaving thing.

You really think the ones causing huge problems canceling accounts and starting new ones are sellers, not buyers?

Wow.
 
i hate bidders that win then expect you to hold the item for a couple of weeks whilst they gather the money, its like they think you just have it sitting around and dont care. complete cockstains.....
 
himmy said:
You have got to be kidding me.

You really think the ones causing huge problems canceling accounts and starting new ones are sellers, not buyers?

Wow.
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I should ask the same of you, lol. You really think the sellers aren't doing it also?

C'mon people. Buyers AND sellers are pulling the same crap.

BTW, I've also uncovered at least a dozen power-sellers that buy stuff from amatuer EBay'ers with bogus ID's, scam the person, leaving them with no cash AND no item, then turn around and sell the item through their mega-super-duper-Ebay-store. I've reported these scams to EBay Safe Harbor. Provided more than adequate proof. Got a nice email thanking me for my interest and assuring me that EBay would look into it. Yeah, right.

The only real solution is for EBay to get involved. EBay is going downhill fast because they don't want to interfere and risk losing the revenue they are making off of the scammers.
 
Ebay is alright... used to love it. But now I can live without it after being scam so many times as a seller and a buyer. Once I sold a broken projector to a woman. I put NOT IN A WOKING CONDITION, SELLING AS IS. To make it more idiot proof I put up a picture that showed exactly what the projector look like. The picture showed that the projector had a big gash in it. Well... needless to say I still got an idiot buyer that bought the item for 80 bucks and got the product and told me that there is something wrong the product. We went on a month long despute. Ebay ruled in my favor that she's an idiot. She left me a neg feedback saying I'm a cheat and scammer. Freaken Stupid Man! As a buyer people just put in their post as nothing wrong with the item, but when I get the item sure there's nothing wrong with it cosmetic wise. But internally it sucked. Anywho that's my rant
 
Artemis87 said:
Ebay is alright... used to love it. But now I can live without it after being scam so many times as a seller and a buyer. Once I sold a broken projector to a woman. I put NOT IN A WOKING CONDITION, SELLING AS IS. To make it more idiot proof I put up a picture that showed exactly what the projector look like. The picture showed that the projector had a big gash in it. Well... needless to say I still got an idiot buyer that bought the item for 80 bucks and got the product and told me that there is something wrong the product. We went on a month long despute. Ebay ruled in my favor that she's an idiot. She left me a neg feedback saying I'm a cheat and scammer. Freaken Stupid Man! As a buyer people just put in their post as nothing wrong with the item, but when I get the item sure there's nothing wrong with it cosmetic wise. But internally it sucked. Anywho that's my rant
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Wow, that's special. I haven't ran into that. I sell crap (at least they are to me, because I just have it sitting around) I tell people their conditions as they are. Haven't ran into bad deals yet, but recently I bought a ip camera -- the guy didn't send all the parts. stupid paypal didn't default to my cc or i'd just tell my cc to reverse my charges.
 
LANm0nk3y said:
Wow, that's special. I haven't ran into that. I sell crap (at least they are to me, because I just have it sitting around) I tell people their conditions as they are. Haven't ran into bad deals yet, but recently I bought a ip camera -- the guy didn't send all the parts. stupid paypal didn't default to my cc or i'd just tell my cc to reverse my charges.
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I have. These are where I wish you could have ebay step in a remove the feedback as you can show it is bs.
 
I'm chiming in as a pretty frequent seller. I think the change is a good move; eBay has seriously turned to crap over the years though.
 
swatbat said:
I have. These are where I wish you could have ebay step in a remove the feedback as you can show it is bs.
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I haven't given any feedback yet. But I'm waiting for my money.... don't give a crap about feedback yet. :)
 
MrSneis said:
I'm chiming in as a pretty frequent seller. I think the change is a good move; eBay has seriously turned to crap over the years though.
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Which change do you appreciate most as a "pretty frequent seller?" The higher fees, the one sided feedback, the preferential ranking of Power Seller items in searches or the new "hold your funds for 21 days until the buyer gives you a posivitive feedback" if your score isn't high enough?

I'm having a hard time deciding which change is my favorite too. :p
 
ryankenn said:
As a Buyer, after I pay, I HAVE COMPLETED MY SIDE OF THE TRANSACTION. At that point, I should receive positive feedback. I've done all I need to. .
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No you haven't.

I look at feedback as something for the entire transaction - as someone else noted, should a buyer get positive feedback when they constantly harrass you about an item even though you've given them the DC number? What if there is a problem with the item, and the buyer refuses to work it out and just negs you, even though you are willing to do a 100% refund? (this happened to me, luckily we both withdrew because he told me he "jumped the gun with feedback").

IMO, the transaction doesn't just end once the buyer pays, and also, imo, I use feedback as a way to know that my customers are happy with the items they bought, since 90% of them don't ever write to you or answer your questions UNLESS there is a problem. They have 60 (!!!) days with which to get their money back, so without positive FB or no communication, how can I safely transfer any money over without knowing if they are happy?

But shit, feedback is the least of my concerns, it is the fee changes and the extreme favoritism towards Power Sellers (they get Paypal protection to ANY address now, not just Confirmed ones... wtf?) that will have me stop selling on Ebay after 2/20, and I will just take my games to Gamestop from now on... it's not worth the hassle at all.
 
Looks like the ONLY way to sell on EBay now is to accept Postal Money Orders, and nothing else.

And if it doesn't sell, too bad.
 
Manny Calavera said:
It seems now that no matter what you do as a seller,you get bent over.
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Isn't that the sad truth.

It's easily 99% of my selling transactions over the past 9 years and 11 months have been without any bit of trouble. I have 5.0 star ratings in all categories. When the new feedback rules kick in next week my rating will be 100% (from the current 99.8%).

That I'm not going to be selling on ebay anymore should serve as a warning of how bad these rule changes are to sellers. Those 1% of problem buyers will multiply now because bad buyers (a tiny minority overall) will now be able to get away with murder and trolls will be able to work the system to their advantage. The arbitrary rules that ebay can now apply 21 day holds on funds is plain ridiculous.

I signed up for iOffer this weekend and i'll lurk to see if it's worth it. So far it looks like a glorified buy/sell forum, and in some ways offers far worse buyer and seller protection than ebay/paypal (feepay). Oh well, Amazon, Craigslist and Recycler are still the best alternatives so far.
 
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