Eizo S2411W-U

[Chippy]

Really awesome pics, nice! Thanks for posting all these. I have a question regarding vid card color fidelity, between NVidia and Ati which has better color for 2D images especially if you have a nice screen like this Eizo?

One more please, ATi claims 10bit processing for some of their cards, does Ati have more accurate color (for 2D) then NVidia and does this make a difference on 8bit or 10bit LCDs?

Thankie!

Don't know about the nVidia vs ATI question, but I do know that Windows XP is 8 bit only, so irrespective of the video card and panel, you aren't going to get better than 8 bit per channel color in XP. Vista might be better - not sure.

Chip

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

is this why this lcd is better? 10bit...lcd?

14-bit processing, 10-bit LUT and 8-bit display. It "only" shows 8-bit/16,7M colors.

What makes this display great is the image processing.

The S2411W-U is a bit interesting and I have a couple of questions about it.

The S2410W brightens at an angle which is typical for S-PVA panels, while the S2411W-U darkens according to Chippy. Also, Chippy states the S2411W-U doesn't have image shifts at normal angles and are consistent up to 90-120 degrees angle.

This leads me to believe that we are not talking about a standard S-PVA panel in the S2411W-U if it has an S-PVA panel at all. The image inconsistency is what lead me away from buying an Eizo (non-CG, since CG221 is way out of my priceclass) when I got my new screen, but it seems I was hasty judging the S2411W-U based upon the previous models.

Can anyone test the S2411W-U for image consistency using this method? I have yet to see a S-PVA panel that is consistent with this method, but the S2411W-U gives me hope!

I haven't been able to use a S-PVA panel before due to color accuracy being totally wacked because of viewing angles. DeltaE would probably have shown up as 20 if I had measured the screens from 90 degrees (center) compared to 85/95 degrees (5 degrees off center). Eizo delivers high quality products, so the S2411W-U might be the start of an era where there are screens for my needs as well within my price range!

For others less sensitive to viewing angles who consider an Eizo, I'd say that the extra price is definitely worth it. You gain a noticable quality difference of image with the Eizo!

 

[Chippy]

I am happy to test it for you, but your test image is unavailable. I have tried control-R or refresh and its still not available.

Do you want to post another link to it here?

I would be surprised if the S2410W and S2411W are different panels, given the similarity of the spec and the short time between the launch of the two. As far as I know the S2411W is just the same with the addition of HDCP, and also the "dynamic" contrast improvement option (i.e. waste of time).

Having said that, I really don't see your problem regarding viewing angles. I am not saying the S2411W doesn't suffer from the symptoms you describe - perhaps it might. Merely that I don't sit in front of the monitor waving my head around. From a fixed viewing point the picture is - unsurprisingly - constant.

Cheers

Chippy

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

Thanks!

Here you go:
[img=http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3041/596905481920shadowiy6.th.jpg]

The specs of the panel could very well be the LM240WU1 which also have an active area of 518.4 x 324.0. It only have 800:1 in contrast, but it wouldn't be the first time the basic specs have been altered. The specs are also similar to MVA based panels, so it can be several types. Eizo themselves doesn't reveal it and I've seen it both as an MVA and S-PVA during my search. Its not the specs that makes me wonder, but that the image darkens instead of brightens upon angle. That would mean a change in panel characteristics or change of panel type.

Its not the extreme angle shifts I care about (Like in Youri Carma's picture), but the slight angle shifts at only 5 degrees of center vs. center that makes it hard for me to use such panels. Thats why a picture of 5 degrees off center is more interesting then a picture of 5 degrees off bezel.

Thanks again for checking this for me! I'm really curious about the development here.

 

[ToastyX]

The S2410W brightens at an angle which is typical for S-PVA panels, while the S2411W-U darkens according to Chippy. Also, Chippy states the S2411W-U doesn't have image shifts at normal angles and are consistent up to 90-120 degrees angle.

I saw the same darkening on a 24" iMac, which greatly perplexed me since I expected it to be S-PVA. I couldn't tell what kind of panel it was.

Either Samsung changed the way S-PVA panels work without telling anyone, or it's a different kind of panel. If it's a different kind of panel, what kind of panel could it be?

The one thing I hate the most about S-PVA panels is how the poor viewing angles wash out the colors, even from a normal viewing distance. Youri Carma's pictures clearly show an S-PVA panel since it washes out at an angle, but if there's a VA-type panel that doesn't do that, I'd like to try it out.

 

[Juardis]

Thanks!



Thanks again for checking this for me! I'm really curious about the development here.

me too. I'm definitely ordering something on Friday. Don't know if it's this monitor, the NEC LCD2490 or LCD2690. Still debating.

 

[Juardis]

I have red people talking about the Eizo FlexScan S2410 as well maybe for people who are not so much interested in the HDCP or 1080 this can be a alternative to the S2411 since you would expect it to drop in price.

The 2410 looks more washed out than the 2411. Is it the wallpaper or the panel? I prefer the 2411 based on this alone.

edit: I see toastyX agrees (and upon rereading Tamlin's post, so does he).

 

[Kmat]

Hello everyone:

I am following this thread as well as the Benq thread. This summer I plan to build a computer but I am interested in looking for a good LCD. The Eizo are way too expensive for a poor man like me. In you guys opinion, what would be equvalent to Eizo 24 inch monitor? This montor would be used primarily for gaming, then word processing and Cad work.

Kmat

 

[Juardis]

Did some more research. It appears that this monitor is just now being offered in the U.S. Last week I couldn't find it anywhere. I'm starting to find plenty of places now.

However, the model is S2411W or, in some cases, S2411W-WS. I can't find S2411W-U. Is the -U version for Uropeans . Seriously, checking on the eizo website, they only offer one model, S2411W, so what's the -U stand for?

 

[Chippy]

However, the model is S2411W or, in some cases, S2411W-WS. I can't find S2411W-U. Is the -U version for Uropeans . Seriously, checking on the eizo website, they only offer one model, S2411W, so what's the -U stand for?

Strange. Here's the one I bought:

http://www.eizo.co.uk/wscreendisplays.html?&user_products[uid]=137&cHash=45ff128160
Even more strange, if I check on the back it says S2411W. But if I look in the information menu onscreen, it says S2411W-U. So the firmware at least is different.

Its probably some local tweak like "U niversal power supply" that accepts 240V as well as 110V maybe? Although why that would mean a different firmware, I don't know. I can't see any difference in the specs comparing the info on Eizo.com to Eizo.co.uk

Chip

 

[Rhydas]

Hi Chippy a question about gaming with this monitor, do you play games in 1920x1200 ?
Playing with lower resolution like 1680x1050 is still good quality ? or is is worse compare to native res ?

Thanx

 

[Chippy]

Hi Chippy a question about gaming with this monitor, do you play games in 1920x1200 ?
Playing with lower resolution like 1680x1050 is still good quality ? or is is worse compare to native res ?

Thanx

I am not a massive gamer so I am not expert on lag and things like that, but from what I can see of Half-Life 2 at 1680x1050, it still appears excellent. Not quite as crisp as the full 1920x1200 of course, but still very very good.

Chippy

 

[Rhydas]

so using a resolution different from the native 1920x1200 make a loss of quality hmmm

it is hard to play every game at 1920x1200 ( and you need a super killer video card ) and i think not all the game support this res

 

[Chippy]

so using a resolution different from the native 1920x1200 make a loss of quality hmmm

it is hard to play every game at 1920x1200 ( and you need a super killer video card ) and i think not all the game support this res

I think you misunderstand what I am saying.

1680x1050 is not as much detail as 1920x1200, so it is *impossible* for 1680x1050 to be as good. You expect miracles?

Also, since all LCD's are based on a fixed matrix (unlike CRT's) you will always lose some more detail when you apply a 1680x1050 image and stretch it over a 1920x1080 matrix. This is just a fact of life, not a limitation of the monitor! ALL LCD's are the same in this respect.

Having said all of that, 1680 gaming does look very very good indeed and most people would struggle to tell the difference I think.

Chip

EDIT: Here are two shots of HL2 at 1920x1200 and at 1680x1050. (Don't worry about the banding - that's just the camera moire effect and is not there in reality). You can tell the difference, but the 1680 image is still very good. (Warning: big pics!)

http://www.asbd28.dsl.pipex.com/images/r1.jpg

http://www.asbd28.dsl.pipex.com/images/r2.jpg

 

[Rhydas]

thanx very much chippy

 

[ToastyX]

I e-mailed Eizo, and I was told it has an S-PVA panel.

Does this monitor support 1:1 pixel mapping and 1080P HDMI? I was thinking of using a PS3 with it for movies and games.

I was also told it doesn't support 1080i, 720p, 480p, or 480i. It only supports 1080p, so it really can't be used with a PS3 since 480p and 720p are needed.

 

[Juardis]

I e-mailed Eizo, and I was told it has an S-PVA panel.


I was also told it doesn't support 1080i, 720p, 480p, or 480i. It only supports 1080p, so it really can't be used with a PS3 since 480p and 720p are needed.

Say what?! So what you're saying is if I put a regular DVD into my DVD drive I can't watch it on this monitor? Isn't there some option to up-rez to 1080p?

 

[ToastyX]

Say what?! So what you're saying is if I put a regular DVD into my DVD drive I can't watch it on this monitor? Isn't there some option to up-rez to 1080p?

No, it just means this monitor can't be used with external devices that output 480p or 720p. Computer usage is not affected.

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

I e-mailed Eizo, and I was told it has an S-PVA panel.

Nice! I thought about e-mailing them myself. Then that is cleared up at least. Did you get any other info about the panel and why it darkens instead of getting brighter/washes out? Are we talking about a new type of S-PVA panel or some modification to the ordinary S-PVA? Most importantly, is it finally consistent or does it shift just in the other direction instead?

 

[ToastyX]

No, I didn't get any other information.

 

[ToastyX]

14-bit processing, 10-bit LUT and 8-bit display. It "only" shows 8-bit/16,7M colors.

I should also note that this monitor doesn't have a programmable 10-bit lookup table. The CE240W does, but even then, the software only measures the brightest colors and adjusts the gain accordingly, so it's still not as accurate as the NEC monitors with SpectraView.

 

[Youri Carma]

The 2410 looks more washed out than the 2411. Is it the wallpaper or the panel? I prefer the 2411 based on this alone.

edit: I see toastyX agrees (and upon rereading Tamlin's post, so does he).

The wash out is deffinitly the wallpaper that's why I posted the wallpaper right under the pic

I get the idea that a lottof you havn't seen a realy good quality Samsung S-PVA (LTM240M2) panel. The DELL is a very bad example and therefor I suggest , if you have the possibility somewhere to have a look at the Eizo's.


There also has been a lottof talking about S-IPS being the best for colorquality?
But this is all theoratical.

In real live quality the Eizo's almost always end up in the top before S-IPS panels.
So there is more too it.

I play Half_Life at 1920X1200 which is just possible with the X1950XT OC. Without OC I had red fractials or something like that.
The TFT work much diffirent than CRT cause you have to use it as much as possible in native 1920x1200 resolution.

I also play ET in 1680X something and that's not bad at all so no vissible lag or anything very good quality playing in Half-Life Multiplayer also.

I frankly amazed whit it's Game quality not to mention the video quality which is also excellent.

But I think that S-IPS will catch up, or already did cause they are used in the more expensive LaCie's and also in the Eizo's but not in the FlexScan line.

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

The wash out is deffinitly the wallpaper that's why I posted the wallpaper right under the pic

Lol! A wallpaper that washes itself out! Thats new!

There also has been a lottof talking about S-IPS being the best for colorquality?
But this is all theoratical.

In real live quality the Eizo's almost always end up in the top before S-IPS panels.
So there is more too it.

I'm not interested in bashing your screen or the panel inside it, its a good screen you have so there is no point. There is no point in having a S-IPS vs. S-PVA debate here either, since there are a lot of those already. Therefore, I'll make Eizo themselves comment this. Its written in Norwegian and I couldn't find an english equalent for the moment. Online translators sucks, so I'll make you a quick translation of it. The original text can be found here:
http://www.eizo.no/eizo/smpage.fwx?smlanguage=NOR&page=72
(question 7)

Question

What are the differences between FlexScan S2100, L997, ColorEdge CE models and ColorEdge CG models when it comes to color, picture quality and usage area etc.?

Answer

FlexScan
FlexScan can be found in differnt models with different panel types and functions/finesses determened by target group.
Vi have as example two different 21,3" (S2100 and L997) with s-PVA and s-IPS panels. The IPS panels gives a bit better colors and changes less from the sides, the greyscale is corrected with a general profile in the screen thanks to 10 bits LUT in both cases. The biggest difference is that dark greytones changes more on the S2100 from the sides and that light tones gets paler.
L997 have also several coloradjustments like 6-akses coloradjustment (richness and colortone).
S2100 is good for those who needs larger workarea, Web-design, CAD etc. L997 is better for those who want to adjust most and maybe calibrate the screen with a seperate calibrator, then through the screens menu's like to acheive correct white temperature, light etc.

Tamlin edit: Panel types in this series: TN, IPS and PVA based panels.

ColorEdge CE
CE-models from ColorEdge are individial calibrated so that every specimen is the same and have good greybalance, besides that you can adjust the white temperature, brightness, gamma and black level to wanted value and get a profile that corresponds with these settings.
CE-models (21" wide and 24" wide) are targeted to companies that works with creating publications, design, arkitects etc. where work area and color is importent, but where you don't take colorcritical descitions directly on screen.
Thanks to the factory calibration and the calibration opportunities with the programs that comes with which supports different calibrators, you can quick and easy calibrate your screen without having to adjust anything manual, which is the source of errors and can be time consuming if you have 10 screens in your office.

Tamlin edit: Panel types in this series: Only PVA based.

ColorEdge CG
CG models are also factory calibrated and have more advanced LCD panels and guiding electronics that gives a better precition in the greyscale, CG220 gives also a significant larger colorarea with AdobeRGB. CG is targeted to professional photographers that demands high precition in color reproduction, simple and fast, but still advanced calibration with options to afteradjust individual colortones and gamma per colorchannel to acheive the colorreproduction wanted.
The CG models are SWOP sertified for testprints and can be included in a controlled colorflow that is as example Fogra sertified, so that you can take descitions about print color directly on screen without testprints and corrections. We heard from a company which does different publications with high quality prints that they saved at least 10 hours per publication when they had control of the colorflow without testprints and afteradjustments. These hours costs a lot, which makes it worth to adjust in good screens (Pluss other equiptment for this to be a complete solution).
Also here its important that you have screens that are the same if you have manhy that works with same material before it goes into print.
Professional photographers that more and more often gives away pictures that are basically ready for print have to be able to trust what they see on screen, and also here CG is a better choice and in certain cases its the CG220 thats required for the job.

Tamlin edit: Panel types in the CG series: Only IPS based.

Take it as you want it, but don't you wonder why they never use PVA based panels in their color critical CG series if what you say should have been true?

 

[Mastakill]

No, it just means this monitor can't be used with external devices that output 480p or 720p. Computer usage is not affected.

so the eizo monitor is worse in scaling and keeping aspect ratio then the benq 24" lcd?
i know the benq isn't perfect yet either (where the hell is that firmware upgrade staying?) but at least it is able to accept 480p and 720p signals...

Well, i guess the eizo is no option for me then...

To justify the 170 euro extra, it should be at least as good as the Benq in ALL aspects

so i'll just continue waiting for eternity until benq brings out that firmware fix...

 

[Youri Carma]

I realy want to stress that you can't make a judgement only on the specs!

You can however take some conclusions from review's where they are able to compare the TFT's right next to each other to realy see the live diffirence.

 

[Chippy]

@Tamlin =

Personally I have no doubt that an IPS panel can offer a wider colour gamut and is *potentially* better colour/contrast consistency at different viewing angles.

*However*...

IPS panels are still way behind on black levels and in struggling to keep the light from coming through, uneven backlighting and light bleed through are common faults.

Combining that with the NEC LCD2690's "dubious" build quality, effectively ruled it out for me. I figured the chances of me getting a decent NEC with a power supply that didn't whine, no bad pixels and a perfect backlight were slim. And even if I did get one that was "perfect", the black levels are still fairly poor.

Which makes it fairly bad for movies. (In fact I think all LCD's are fairly bad for movies, but that's another story.)

The Eizo is indeed a compromise. But for normal use, I don't see the colour shifts at slightly different viewing angles. It only shows up with very dark images, and then again, I don't move my head around much when editing photos etc. And when I am gaming (which is rare) I am too busy worrying about being shot than analysing absolute colour and contrast at some part of the screen. Bottom line is, I just don't notice the "problem".

vs IPS where I would notice the poor backlight and black levels every day.

Also - a big plus - the Eizo build quality is superb, and the chances of getting duff one seem to be very low indeed.

@Toasty: Regards 480p and720p - I wonder if anyone has actually tried it? The manual shows a list of resolutions/timings that does not include 480p or 720p. But on the other hand, does that mean it doesn't actually work. The list is headed "The following table shows factory present video timing" - which isn't entirely clear what it means.

It would seem strange that the panel will accept a 640x480@60Hz signal, but not 480p60. The two are so similar as to question why the latter would not work.

I don't have any 480p or 720p devices with HDMI output, but later I will load up powerstrip and feed the panel 1280x720p and 852x480p and see what happens

Cheers

Chippy

EDIT: Just noticed the manual says:

"If a signal other than those listed in
the table is input, adjust the screen
using the Adjustment menu. However,
screen display may still be incorrect
even after the adjustment."

I guess someone needs to test out 480p and 720p

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

@Tamlin =

Personally I have no doubt that an IPS panel can offer a wider colour gamut and is *potentially* better colour/contrast consistency at different viewing angles.

*However*...

IPS panels are still way behind on black levels and in struggling to keep the light from coming through, uneven backlighting and light bleed through are common faults.

Combining that with the NEC LCD2690's "dubious" build quality, effectively ruled it out for me. I figured the chances of me getting a decent NEC with a power supply that didn't whine, no bad pixels and a perfect backlight were slim. And even if I did get one that was "perfect", the black levels are still fairly poor.

Which makes it fairly bad for movies. (In fact I think all LCD's are fairly bad for movies, but that's another story.)

The Eizo is indeed a compromise. But for normal use, I don't see the colour shifts at slightly different viewing angles. It only shows up with very dark images, and then again, I don't move my head around much when editing photos etc. And when I am gaming (which is rare) I am too busy worrying about being shot than analysing absolute colour and contrast at some part of the screen. Bottom line is, I just don't notice the "problem".

vs IPS where I would notice the poor backlight and black levels every day.

Also - a big plus - the Eizo build quality is superb, and the chances of getting duff one seem to be very low indeed.

All I wanted was to see if there had been some changes in the panel tech regarding viewing angles and image consistency... Now there is both a S-PVA vs. S-IPS and S2411W-U vs. 2690WUXi discussion... LOL!

Since you bring in the 2690, lets look at the actual numbers a bit:

Black depth:
Black depth sucks on all screens regardless of panel. CRT's are way better in this respect. You never stated how deep black (cd/m2) is within "acceptable" range? In a calibrated state with luminace of 120 cd/m2, the 2690 had a black depth of 0.27 cd/m2 (from Painmans review with spectraview). ToastyX acheived 0.29 cd/m2 with a luminance of 200 cd/m2 (also with spectraview). The 2407WFP (S-PVA) have at comparison 0.29 cd/m2 after calibration according to extremetech. If the 2690 isn't within acceptable range, then some newer S-PVA's of today would also fall out from your personal requirements. Black depth is in general better on S-PVA panels compared to S-IPS panels, but is the 2690 not within "acceptable range" in general according to you?

Calibration and methods are important when it comes to measuring black depth, and thats why I use only calibrated numbers as reference. As example, the Eizo S2111W-BK (the little brother of you screen), got measured at 0.55 cd/m2 before calibraton and at 0.16 cd/m2 after calibration according to prad.de. I'll link to the review in the end of this post.

Backlight uniformity
This is a bit interesting, since the 2690 have a feature called colorcomp, which increases the uniformity accross the screen. NEC measures the screen (automated process) through 100'reds of measurement points and stores the deviation in the screens individually.
Prad.de reviewed 2 2690's. One black and one white variant. With colorcomp enabled (@level 3 of 5), the deviation was as low as 1.3%! Here are the charts from Prad.de of the 2690 vs. S2111W:

2690:

S211W:
[

Gaming:
The 2690 have a clear advantage over the S2411W both when it comes to pure size, but also the deeper colors due to wide gamut. There are other features and areas also where the 2690 would be stronger (like scaling options), but I kept it short. If you want to contest that the 2690 would be more suitable for gaming, then I'll go into greater depth.

Color critical work:
Lets face it. The S2411W is not targeted against professionals who do color critical work. I can safely claim that the 2690 is superior in all areas of color work here, so if you want to contest one area its better I leave the indepth to that area alone. Prad.de's indepth review of the 2690 (I'm impressed of how indept they went, checking out all the features!) shows that it also forfilled all the UGRA criteria's for color work. Wide gamut is a nice addition too...

Movies:
This is the strong suit of the S2411W it seems. Great black levels and dynamic contrast would give good watching experience too. However, the 2690WUXi performs well in this area too, though it doesn't have any support for interlaced format like 1080i (it does support 1080P with pixel perfect 1:1 though). The only advantage the NEC should have would be the larger size and custom scaling (480P at 16:9 according to ToastyX), but thats marginally since one often sit far away when watching movies and both screens might be too small for this. The S2411W wins this one in my opinion. (I should mention that prad.de isn't too happy with movies on the S2111W so that is said though, monitors usually doesn't hide the artifacts as well as tv's)

Edit: I must admit that though the S2411W might be better for movies, I'm not quite convinced that I would want to be without the Wide gamut to bring out the deeper colors in movies though...

Build quality:
The 2690 did have some issues with sound on some units and a fix has been applied. Prad.de also checked the 2690 for sounds and found it to be within acceptable level at normal usage. I've never had problems with sound, but I'm glad they did something about it.
Besides that, the build quality of the NEC is great! Sofisticated electronics inside and picture processing, Grade A panel, individually measured screens for colorcomp usage, not to mention the H-IPS panel which gives a more stable, consistent image etc. My screen is uniform backlit, no sound issues, no dead or stuck pixels etc. Nothing to complain about when it comes to build. Neither did any of the online reviews I've read have either. Some in the NEC thread had their issues, but they are hardly representative for all the 2690's. Many didn't have issues either.

I like the build quality of the Eizo's too.

My conclution:
There is little the S2411W has to offer me compared to my 2690WUXi. Deeper black, lower price and dynamic contrast perhaps, but personally I would feel I loose too much to gain so little.

The S2411W is a nice screen and all, but the NEC 2690 is simply in a different league then the S2411W and it wasn't my intent to compare them in this thread, but since you brought it up...

Its the change in panel characteristics of the S-PVA in the S2411W (darkening instead of brightening of image) I am interested in. Nothing else. Thats why I PM'd you 04-19-2007 about this and waited until 04-23-2007 before I asked publicly in thread instead, since there were no answer on the PM. I wanted to avoid derailing the thread into a S-PVA vs. S-IPS debate out of respect for you as OP.


The reviews I referred to in german with google translation to English:

NEC [email protected]

Eizo [email protected]

 

[Chippy]

@Tamlin:

Sorry, I had no idea you had PM'd me. I am new around here as you can see.

Regards your conclusions about the LCD2690, if you have bought one - and it looks like you have - and you are pleased with it, then that's great. I am happy for you.

I don't want to get into a big arument about this. However, to say it is "in a different league to the S2411W" is a ridiculous statement. Here's why:

1. The NEC has had all sorts of issues with noisy PSU's, dead pixels and leaking backlights. vs the Eizo = no such reports. Had the NEC not had so many reports of problems, I might have bought one. Anyone who buys an NEC and gets a "good" one will no doubt be delighted. I didn't think it was worth the risk. My supplier - who had the chance to sell me the Spectraview at £1,321 vs the Eizo at £774 - told me that the Eizo had much better build quality. It would seem very strange to lie about this given they were losing £500+ of order value in doing so, so I am inclined to believe them.

2. Yes the NEC has a wider colour gamut and better colour fidelity at skewed viewing angles. But neither of these two parameters are of paramount importance if (a) you don't want or need better than sRGB colour gamut and (b) you don't view it from the side (who does?)

3. The black levels of the NEC are poor on an absolute basis (i.e. compared to CRT and even compared to good plasmas, especially Panasonic.) The Eizo's are better, but still poor, imho. To answer your specific question, "is 0.29 cd/m2 too high?" - Yes it is. I wouldn't really say either panel was acceptable, which is one reason why I would not personally buy any LCD to seriously watch movies. Apart from anything else, 24" or 26" is too small anyway. But watching a dark scary movie in a dark room on the NEC would be quite a joke, and probably not so great on the Eizo either. In broad daylight, no problem. But who wants to watch dramatic movies in broad daylight?

Overall, for general use (as opposed to serious color/printing work where you need as much of the Adobe gamut as you can get) the Eizo gives the NEC a very good run for its money and in some areas wins.

And that excludes price. The NEC Spectraview version is 70% more expensive than the Eizo, and the non-Spectraview version is 30% more expensive, so its a completely unfair comparison in any event.

To put the NEC in "a different league" when it loses on build quality, loses on black levels, wins on colour gamut and wins on viewing angles but loses on price - this is a bizarre conclusion.

I will not comment further on this, but as I say - I am delighted you are as pleased with your 2690 as I am with my Eizo.

Cheers

Chippy

 

[Juardis]

@Tamlin:

2. Yes the NEC has a wider colour gamut and better colour fidelity at skewed viewing angles. But neither of these two parameters are of paramount importance if (a) you don't want or need better than sRGB colour gamut and (b) you don't view it from the side (who does?)


Cheers

Chippy

Good debate gentlemen, very useful stuff you both point out. Chippy, I understand not looking at your screen at an angle, but what I've noticed on my laptop (17" PVA panel) is that I can sit directly in front of it and notice a difference in color/contrast at the edges. So when I edit photos on it, I have to move my head so that it is perpendicular to the area of the screen I'm interested in. Not too big a deal with a 17" widescreen, but I imagine the color/contrast shift would be greater for a 24" widescreen. So yes, you won't be looking at your monitor from 45° off perpendicular, but you will be say, 5-10° off perpendicular.

So my question to you is this. Sitting directly in front of your 2411, can you notice a color/contrast shift at the edges of your screen? If you move your head to be perpendicular to that point and you notice a change from when you were directly in the middle, then that, to me, is the deal breaker. If you cannot notice it, then, to me, the eizo is sufficient for what I need. Again, this is for my own needs, not making an absolute statement here on which monitor is better than the other.

Would appreciate your help very much.

 

[Chippy]

@Juardis:

I guess no screen is perfect and yes there is some slight variation if you really look for it. But its really not noticeable in normal use. I don't find myself having to shift around to check colours etc. Very dark scenes seem to be the most revealing of this "problem", but in normal use, I just don't notice it. I don't think I would have ever noticed if I hadn't gone looking for it.

Maybe I am just less fussy than others.

Chippy

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

@Tamlin:

Sorry, I had no idea you had PM'd me. I am new around here as you can see.

Regards your conclusions about the LCD2690, if you have bought one - and it looks like you have - and you are pleased with it, then that's great. I am happy for you.

I don't want to get into a big arument about this. However, to say it is "in a different league to the S2411W" is a ridiculous statement. Here's why:

No hard feelings about the PM. I just wanted to make my intention clear when I mentioned it in last post. I don't see a point in making this into a big argument either and you have probably read my PM by now and can see I tried to prevent it.

I can see from you last post on what grounds you disagree upon my statement that the 2690WUXi is in a different league then the S2411W. I gave you some of my reasons in previous post, but when you summerized it, I can see they weren't clear enough. I'll give it another go and though you might still disagree, you'll at least see that they are thought through and have a foundation.

Build quality:
If I'm not mistaken, you build your opinion of the build quality on the NEC thread at [H] and your supplyers word? I can see then that we have a different perspective when it comes to build quality and what we base this upon.

I feel as I'm debating out of the general rule, while you go for the exeptions. The 2690 I have infront of me have a great build quality and same with the ones @ prad.de/behardware/trustedreviews/several in the NEC thread + 2 review sites in Norway.

There is no indication now that NEC is aware of the sound issue, that most people (general consumer) would receive a unit with flaws of any kind.

My basis for why the 2690WUXi is in another league:

Most screens/all screens can be used for movies, games, spreadsheets, wordprocessing, webbrowsing etc. to a certain extent.
Picture quality is a matter of subjective opinion to a certain degree as well. Its all a matter of "the eye of the beholder". I have yet to see a S-PVA based screen I can sit long infront of without getting a strong headacke due to bad image consistency, you on the other hand have a great need of deep black, so deep that any LCD cannot provide it. This is something I care less about. We all get the screen which image suits us best, since we are the end user. There is no correct answer about which screen has the best picture quality when its based upon subjective opinions.

Color critical tasks is a chapter by itself, or its own league. The requirements here is not based upon "eye of the beholder" and how we "feel" is of no matter. Its where the picture quality abilities of the screen goes from being a subjective to an objective matter, and where there are correct answers.

The S2411W doesn't belong to this league. The 2690WUXi does.

You don't have to be a softproofer or professional in any way to enjoy the benifits of the 2690 either. More and more cameras and printers for home users are able to capture and print in Adobe RGB. With the wide gamut of this screen you can see more of those deep colors on it, while it will look washed out on the S2411W. The 2690 is also capable of being "dummified" to sRGB when needed.

Same goes for games and movies. Deeper colors can enhance many games and movies.

Although both screens can be used to play different games on, there is one advantage I would especially point out on the 2690. It has a custom scaling, where you can select how big you want the game to be scaled to. This is useful in many games and especially console, dos games and games with fixed resolution like Diablo 2 and Heroes of might and magic 3. Also, if you wish to watch DVD's from an external player and sit at your desk, it might be useful to have a choice in size.

I think I'll stop here.

Since my personal experience corresponds more with prad.de and those who got panels without defect, then those with issues in the NEC thread, you see where I'm coming from.

I'm glad you are happy with your purchase though and hope I'd still want to take the images of the S2411W for me!

 

[Chippy]

I'm glad you are happy with your purchase though and hope I'd still want to take the images of the S2411W for me!

Only if you if you provide an image of your screen in a dark room on (say) a 30 second exposure so we can see how much light is coming off it an how even it is.

Actually, I have no need for you to do this. Its of no interest to me. I know it will be poor and equally, you know my off axis shots would be poor. So there's no point.

As I said in my post, I might well have bought an LCD2690 if it weren't for the problems that seem to be more common than you imply. Its a flawed product, like mine. Its merely that the flaws are different.

Cheers

Chippy

Edit: Scanning your post again there's much I could pick holes in. But its not worth it. Suffice to say we are both happy with our purchases and that's the main thing

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

Only if you if you provide an image of your screen in a dark room on (say) a 30 second exposure so we can see how much light is coming off it an how even it is.

Actually, I have no need for you to do this. Its of no interest to me. I know it will be poor and equally, you know my off axis shots would be poor. So there's no point.

Why should you need it? Prad.de already have presented a thorough test of the backlight on the 2690 as presented above. Its a bad comparison, though I understand you weren't serious about it.

I don't have that luxury of checking the S2411W if the image shift @ normal angles has been reduced with the new model (and panel behavior/darkening). Its present at the S2410W and the CE240W. Thats why I PM'ed you for this favor.

Regardless of the picture quality, the picture would reveal it to be consistent/inconsistent looking good or looking bad. I had no interest in checking the picture quality itself. Pictures usually don't justify the PQ of a screen.

Its ok you changed your mind about taking that picture, but could you at least answer me this: Would I, being anal and sensitive about image shifts, notice it at normal viewing angle?

Edit: Scanning your post again there's much I could pick holes in. But its not worth it. Suffice to say we are both happy with our purchases and that's the main thing

Being happy with our purchases are the main thing and always have been I hope. Us comparing the screens was hopefully just an exchange of information, thoughts and impressions. Though we don't agree, I hope at least it has value for someone. I'll leave this thread now. Thank you for the discussion, you've been a gentleman about it.

 

[Dellboy]

I've just about recovered from my marathon Lan party over the weekend.

3 days of near continuous gaming with seven other guys. Longest stint at the screen was 12 hours.

I've owned a variety of screens in my time but not are as good as this one. I play only rts games and they are just wonderful on this monitor. To me I did not detect any ghosting or tearing of the image. I'm running all the games at 1920x1200. The contrast levels are great which resulted in no strain on my ageing eyes. Usually by the end of my lan gatherings my eyeballs are quite red and hurt, but not this time.

I'm an Architect so this screen is also fantastic for cad work.

I also considered the NEC 2690 but I'm very pleased I picked the Eizo instead. I like the styling of this monitor, it is extremely well constructed and the QC of Eizo is 1st rate.

 

[Chippy]

Thank you for the discussion, you've been a gentleman about it.

Thank-you. And you too

Re: Your question about colour shifts at slight vewing angles - no, I don't think you would notice, but it is there and if you go looking for it, then you might.

Chip

 

[Juardis]

@Juardis:

I guess no screen is perfect and yes there is some slight variation if you really look for it. But its really not noticeable in normal use. I don't find myself having to shift around to check colours etc. Very dark scenes seem to be the most revealing of this "problem", but in normal use, I just don't notice it. I don't think I would have ever noticed if I hadn't gone looking for it.

Maybe I am just less fussy than others.

Chippy

Thanks Chippy. I double checked my Dell Inspiron 9300 and it is indeed a S-PVA panel. Since the major reason I'm buying a new system is because I cannot calibrate my laptop adequately, I decided I didn't want another S-PVA screen. So I just ordered a NEC LCD2490WUXi. $1287 at CostCentral. I'm glad you're happy with your eizo. May you have many joyous days with it

 

[Chippy]

Thanks Chippy. I double checked my Dell Inspiron 9300 and it is indeed a S-PVA panel. Since the major reason I'm buying a new system is because I cannot calibrate my laptop adequately, I decided I didn't want another S-PVA screen. So I just ordered a NEC LCD2490WUXi. $1287 at CostCentral. I'm glad you're happy with your eizo. May you have many joyous days with it

Good choice. Both are great monitors I think. I hope you are not one of the unlucky few who gets an imperfect one. Please let us know how you get on.

Cheers

Chip

 

[JVC]

<pics> !!!

 

[Chippy]

This site:

http://pcshop.sitkom.cz/?Mode=Sti&StiId=27580

would seem to indicate it *does* support 480p and 720p. Of course they could be wrong, or my Czech might not be up to it?

Someone really needs to try it.

Cheers

Chip

 

[travbomb]

Where did everyone on this board buy their displays. Both Eizo and NEC?? Thanks for the info.