etiquette and expectations

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rat

rat

Supreme [H]ardness
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First off, this is not to complain and out someone in particular or to report a bad trade, but have a few questions regarding selling/buying on here, how heatware is applied and well...

You may have seen my updated for sale list. I got a response from someone regarding some of the items in question. I forgot to leave a price for that one item and replied with how much I was asking. It was the MSI/AthlonXP Mobo combo. So I told him the price ($40) and edited my post to include this info.

Two days later I get a response back where the person says if I can throw in another item, it's a deal. This is the GeForce FX5200 card where I had listed for $15 or $10 if included with another item. A shipping discount, basically.

Person asked for my heat, I supplied my eBay ID as well since that is a much longer history and where the bulk of my sales were done. I have 221 unique feedback on eBay dating back 9 1/2 years with the most recent feedback item being one month ago. I'm proud of my history there and I think it speaks for itself... as diluted as people tend to think eBay feedback is, I was never a power seller and did my best for every sale possible.

When I try to compromise on a deal/haggle, I try to split the difference. I responded saying "I can add the GeForce FX5200 for $5 to account for extra shipping materials and weight. That fair enough?" $45 for the whole deal, basically.

This was the response I got:

"to be honest, I dont even want to spend $40 on an old setup like this, even with the video card, but I thought $40 was fair.
also, checked your heat, and I would expect to receive goods first due to low heat."

Identifying information removed. Now, while I can point out the first line comes off as a bit dismissive and rude, IMHO, the second line is completely uncalled for.

Is there some sort of expectation in which high heat users can dictate the terms of the sale despite my outlining it on my for sale page? I stated I "send when payment is received and cleared". I politely replied with a perspective in cost per item and pointed out that out of the $40, over $10 would be postage alone, the CPU sells used for about $20 on Pricewatch and he's getting 1GB of ram, the motherboard and wants a free video card out of it for $10 more?

What was surprising was the change in tone when asked $5 for the video card to help cover any extra postage charges.

I ended my reply to him with the following: "If you're going to pressure me into sending you the goods without payment, then I'm simply not interested. That's what half the issues in the TTT thread arise from."

I want to give this guy the benefit of a doubt because he is, indeed, a very high rated Heat user whereas I'm a lowly 2-0-0 right now... but seeing as I've been selling things online for over a decade, almost a decade alone on eBay... This did seem a bit unfair and bully-like, surprisingly so. Being as I'm not exactly known around here and probably wouldn't be considered up to speed on selling culture or etiquette around here as other people would be... Was I out of line in any way?
 
I've had similar experiences with a few guys who act nice up front, and have decent heatware, but then act like dicks in PM to get exactly what they want. I had one guy who wouldn't stop PMing me about buying something and shipping internationally, I kept refusing saying I don't ship international and he just wouldn't quit. Then asked me to drop the price below what I was already asking for US shipping. I honestly just sold it to him so he'd stop pming me. But that's actually their strategy... they don't care about being a nice guy, or reputation, they just keep pushing until it works out in their favor

But now I'll just tell them to fuck off, I already have 90+ heat... but then again I'd still pay first if I was a buyer... just how it works...
 
It's like mixing with people anywhere else. You'll get the good people and you'll get some that endlessly haggle over every dime and try to make you feel like a douche when you don't give in. Don't give in to those people; they are in the severe minority in my experience.
 
Well, speaking a one of those high heat people... (and by that, I mean 100+)
Yeah, I often do dictate terms to low-heat people, regardless of ebay feedback. If someone says in their thread they don't ship first, that's often cause for me to not even try to buy the item.

That being said, there's no reason to be rude. I usually say something like "are you willing to ship first to 380+ heat?" If they reply yes, then we move on. If they say no, I would usually propose 50/50. If they still don't want that, well, then depending on the item (how bad I want it, what the price is, etc), I'll either suck it up and send payment, or move on.

High heat doesn't mean you can get whatever you want, but shipping first to high heat is a common practice. That doesn't mean it's required, but as someone with only 2 heat, expect a lot of people to pass you over.

As for your assertion that half of the TTT issues are from people shipping first to high heat people... that's simply not true. Find me a single person since the beginning of the establishment of heatware that was 100+ that simply walked with goods shipped first to them. I can think of a few instances where there have been disputes and disagreements over the goods or the terms, and yes, people have ended up out money to high-heat people... but the rate of occurrence is incredibly low. The last time it happened here was in 06. Anyone care to name the guy? That's why we put so much trust in the system. eBay sellers that go bad and throw away their reputations on a string of bad items are a dime a dozen.
 
Between the both of you, that was the exact impression I got and didn't want to end up saying in order to try to be diplomatic about it. I have nothing against haggling for a better deal, but the manipulative BS and acting like a bully over feedback history seems especially uncouth.

He sent me another PM trying to passive-aggressively admonish me. I told him he could have just said "Too high, not interested. No thanks." and not be a prima donna about it.

His last response on top of what you two have said pretty much eliminated any doubt I could have had. He's just behaving like a prick.

Especially with a line like this one: "If anything I am doing you a favor to offload old gear..." and this one "anyway, sorry we cant do any business. no hard feelings, you will learn how trading goes on this forum after a while."
 
Vertigo Acid said:
As for your assertion that half of the TTT issues are from people shipping first to high heat people... that's simply not true.
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Clarification: Half the issues on TTT seem to revolve around people shipping first. Period. There was no intent to link that to people with high heat in particular nor was there any continuation of my original statement designed to do such. The guy who shipped a case to someone else in trade based on heat never got his. Or the underaged kid who decided to ship a damaged case, etc...

Things like that and they're from people who had somewhat high reps themselves until they decided to trash it all in one deal.

And no, I don't care to name the guy. I posted trying to see if my impressions were coloured by my experiences elsewhere... I just found the whole demanding attitude and expectations of having everything done contrary to how I've done it for over a decade a bit off putting.

You find a new online Store that has something you want. They may be new, but there's nothing out there suggesting that you shouldn't do business with them. Because you can whip out a Super Duper Mega Uber Platinum Credit Card that is only given to people with perfect credit histories doesn't mean that you're going to win any favors from the shop by demanding that they send you everything COD and with a discount and freebies on top of that.
 
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Tell them take it or leave it. He sent you the PM showing interest, therefore he has to go with the program.
I've turned down unsatisfactory offers and terms and I'm sure many others as well. Don't let a bad apple spoil the bunch.
 
All this over $40 bucks!! Don't waste you time. I have zero heatware (not even registered) and I have sold over $1000+ worth of stuff on here. Not all nickel and dime items either. Pay first, funds clear, ship item, done. :D
 
tommyxv said:
All this over $40 bucks!! Don't waste you time. I have zero heatware (not even registered) and I have sold over $1000+ worth of stuff on here. Not all nickel and dime items either. Pay first, funds clear, ship item, done. :D
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All this over $40, indeed. His final words, not even going to respond to him.

"and if you think I was that demanding, then you are way too sensitive my friend. Go cry about it if you need to. I made you an offer, I set my terms. All you had to say was no, not give me a sob story. Seriously, get over yourself, and listen to someone who has more experience trading than you."

Yeeeeeeeah.
 
tommyxv said:
All this over $40 bucks!! Don't waste you time. I have zero heatware (not even registered) and I have sold over $1000+ worth of stuff on here. Not all nickel and dime items either. Pay first, funds clear, ship item, done. :D
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Exactly. I've wheeled and dealed for years, and I don't have a heat account, nor do I want one. It's common sense, until you pay, you're not getting a thing.. You don't go to newegg.com and tell them to send you shit before you pay for it.
 
i have never shipped first and probably never will. the buyer has protection via paypal, but the seller does not. i dont think this is a problem with high-heat traders, its just a problem with one very rude trader. i just purchased $270 worth of video cards from a trader with zero heat. i didnt ask him to ship first, cuz what reason could he possibly have to trust me? hes never met me. i got his address and phone number, talked to him for about 15 mins on the phone about the cards and just generally shooting the shit, and sent him the money. heat isnt the gospel for everyone, most of us judge on character instead of heat. dont let one bad trader discourage you, ive dealt with many fine people here in the last year or so. happy trading!
 
The way I see it...there's how many members on Hardforum? If someone wants you to ship first because of low heat, I'd say "no way". There's plenty of good people in the [H] community that will buy from you and won't be worried about your lack of heat, as they will accept your ebay feedback as good enough (at least I would). I always have in the back of my mind this though...I can't go to the grand opening of a new store and tell the cashier that I want to take the product home and try it out first to make sure it's good, stating that because they're a new store I don't trust them.
 
You're always going to run into a couple people trying to hard sell. Easy solution: if you think the deal is not equitable, just tell them "no".

Regarding him wanting you to ship first, that's ridiculous even if you have low heat. I have a very new heat account (with nearly 10 years of perfect Ebay feedback) and would never even entertain the idea of shipping first as a seller.

Unlike the buyer, who has recourse through their credit, bank, Paypal if they are jipped, you're basically shit out of luck as a seller if someone takes your goods without payment.
 
ive had some weired experiences on the forums with buying from certain users. ive bought a couple things off a certain user with no problem. things went smooth then just recently he was sellign something i wanted so i pm'd as usual but this time things just seemed really off to me.

just his overall tone and dragging things on has made me not want to buy from him.
 
I have 46 heat currently, if people ask me to ship first, I decline immediatly. I do not get involved with people who ask me to ship first, I never did so since feedback 1. If you want the item, you will have to trust me, thats what PP is for, if you dont get your item, you can dispute the charge.

Anytime someone says something like "Im doing you a favor buying this stuff" is full of it. You dont need favor's, you just need it sold is all. If you dont need the money immediatly, dont give in to "Give me this and you have a deal!" They want to see if you will budge, if you dont, great, someone else will come along who can spend the money and buy it. If you need the money, you can budge a little, but dont give in to high demands. $45 is not unreasonable for what you offered, he apparently thought he could do better out of you and tried to use a higher "status quo" on you. It didnt work, congrats. :)
 
Heat is a rating system that provides a pretty good picture of a trader's reputation. Similar to ebay's feedback system, it is based on trust, honesty, and community involvement. If you cannot trust the person you're involved with, don't do the trade.

I'm sitting on 65 heat now. It's take a while and I'm pretty proud of it. When I do business with a person with little or no feedback, I will ask them to ship first. It's how I operate, similar to collecting name, address, and phone number of everyone I deal with. Just last year, I did a trade with someone with little heat but quite a lot of ebay feedback. We compromised by him sending me a message through ebay to verify that the name given was his actual account and we did a quick phone call. I paid first and the item was received as it should be. I will still ask for traders with very little feedback to send first and compromise with others where possible.

My point is that we must be a community of trusting members if we're going to trade anything. We use tools such as heat or ebay feedback to show the trust we have earned. If a someone asks for something that you are not comfortable with, just say no thanks and move on. You must trust the other party to make this type of trading system work.
 
ike989 said:
Heat is a rating system that provides a pretty good picture of a trader's reputation. Similar to ebay's feedback system, it is based on trust, honesty, and community involvement. If you cannot trust the person you're involved with, don't do the trade.

I'm sitting on 65 heat now. It's take a while and I'm pretty proud of it. When I do business with a person with little or no feedback, I will ask them to ship first. It's how I operate, similar to collecting name, address, and phone number of everyone I deal with. Just last year, I did a trade with someone with little heat but quite a lot of ebay feedback. We compromised by him sending me a message through ebay to verify that the name given was his actual account and we did a quick phone call. I paid first and the item was received as it should be. I will still ask for traders with very little feedback to send first and compromise with others where possible.

My point is that we must be a community of trusting members if we're going to trade anything. We use tools such as heat or ebay feedback to show the trust we have earned. If a someone asks for something that you are not comfortable with, just say no thanks and move on. You must trust the other party to make this type of trading system work.
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I agree. This system is based on trust. But more than that, it's on not only the seller, but the buyer to be smart about their dealings. You have to trust your gut feeling. If it doesn't feel right or makes you uncomfortable, say sorry, no thanks, and move on.
 
Some people are dicks, plain and simple. Don't deal with him.

It's bad enough asking a combo price, then asking to +1 more item while you're at it. Right there I would have ignored any further contact from him about the items, other than saying "I'll pass".

I think I've been asked once to ship first (had 1 heat at the time), and the buyer had a ton of heat (100+ IIRC) so I agreed to 50/50 the payment and didn't have any trouble. I can understand a 50/50 on a higher priced item ($100+), but someone asking a shipment first on a $40 combo? Get real. I'd never ask someone with lower heat to ship first. I would ask to 50/50 the payment, but I wouldn't outright say "ship it to me and THEN I'll pay you". As the seller, that leaves you in a potential world of hurt with no protection whatsoever. If someone is scared to buy from me (which shouldn't be a problem IMO once you get in the 20s/30s + range), I'd give them damn near everything but my CC and SS #s if they wanted 'em cause I ain't goin' nowhere. I always keep buyers in constant contact and let them know every step of the way when I ship something out; hell, I might be *too* revealing on some things but eh that's the way I was brought up and I try to be as fair and straightforward as possible.

The biggest complaint I have in general is people who take repeated prodding to leave a +. Some people act like they're bothered to click like 3x and leave a +. That's what the 'request feedback' checkbox is for, and even then sometimes I have difficulty having to remind someone. I've never really understood much about the "who leaves heat first" thing, but IMHO the buyer should leave heat first once they are happy with the item, and then the seller leaves a return heat. That's just my thought on the matter, but of course occasionally it seems like I run across buyers who want heat first from the seller. :eek:
 
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heres a fun little convo i had with a guy the last couple days. if you see this post other guy, no hard feelings. i just sell my stuff for what i can get for it. and i buy cheap. theres no rule that i have to give everyone a "deal," though i do for repeat customers and people who have proven themselves trustworthy to me. its a discussion over a card i was selling for $150 shipped to the 48.


him: Ill ofer you $120 shipped to Ontario Canada let me know I got 95+ heatware under XXXXXXXX

me: absolutely not. it would be $150+more for shipping to canada. :/

him: Thats a terrible price... that almost retail.. 150 plus $20 is $170 thats very close to retail on that card.

me: exactly. thats why i didnt sell to you. you dont get huge discounts on a brand new card thats BETTER than brand new (ramsinks and thermal compound), and also is out of stock everywhere (the asus model is.) sorry man, but thats how supply and demand works. i got an E8400 (~$100), EA380 (~$35), and $30 paypal in trade for it. if you know the forums you know how to get a good price for your stuff. happy trading!

him: ur not selling retail here.... and this why the card hasnt moved yet this forum you supposed to give deals. it works on the honor system you give you get good deals.

me: it has moved. i just told you the trade im making for it, and i only listed it like 3 days ago. i get many good deals. i bought 2 5770s for $135 each, and im keeping one and selling the other for $165. you can stop PMing me now, as the card is sold. and im putting you on my list of people not to trade with as youre pushy and annoying.


hehe. i consider myself a very trustworthy trader, and i do whatever it takes to satisfy the people im trading with. but there is no rule that i have to sell for less than i can get for my stuff. :) happy trading everyone!
 
ekuest said:
heres a fun little convo i had with a guy the last couple days. if you see this post other guy, no hard feelings. i just sell my stuff for what i can get for it. and i buy cheap. theres no rule that i have to give everyone a "deal," though i do for repeat customers and people who have proven themselves trustworthy to me. its a discussion over a card i was selling for $150 shipped to the 48.


him: Ill ofer you $120 shipped to Ontario Canada let me know I got 95+ heatware under XXXXXXXX

me: absolutely not. it would be $150+more for shipping to canada. :/

him: Thats a terrible price... that almost retail.. 150 plus $20 is $170 thats very close to retail on that card.

me: exactly. thats why i didnt sell to you. you dont get huge discounts on a brand new card thats BETTER than brand new (ramsinks and thermal compound), and also is out of stock everywhere (the asus model is.) sorry man, but thats how supply and demand works. i got an E8400 (~$100), EA380 (~$35), and $30 paypal in trade for it. if you know the forums you know how to get a good price for your stuff. happy trading!

him: ur not selling retail here.... and this why the card hasnt moved yet this forum you supposed to give deals. it works on the honor system you give you get good deals.

me: it has moved. i just told you the trade im making for it, and i only listed it like 3 days ago. i get many good deals. i bought 2 5770s for $135 each, and im keeping one and selling the other for $165. you can stop PMing me now, as the card is sold. and im putting you on my list of people not to trade with as youre pushy and annoying.


hehe. i consider myself a very trustworthy trader, and i do whatever it takes to satisfy the people im trading with. but there is no rule that i have to sell for less than i can get for my stuff. :) happy trading everyone!
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Well he was right on the price, that was a terrible deal lol.
 
%100 agreed.




Vertigo Acid said:
Well, speaking a one of those high heat people... (and by that, I mean 100+)
Yeah, I often do dictate terms to low-heat people, regardless of ebay feedback. If someone says in their thread they don't ship first, that's often cause for me to not even try to buy the item.

That being said, there's no reason to be rude. I usually say something like "are you willing to ship first to 380+ heat?" If they reply yes, then we move on. If they say no, I would usually propose 50/50. If they still don't want that, well, then depending on the item (how bad I want it, what the price is, etc), I'll either suck it up and send payment, or move on.

High heat doesn't mean you can get whatever you want, but shipping first to high heat is a common practice. That doesn't mean it's required, but as someone with only 2 heat, expect a lot of people to pass you over.

As for your assertion that half of the TTT issues are from people shipping first to high heat people... that's simply not true. Find me a single person since the beginning of the establishment of heatware that was 100+ that simply walked with goods shipped first to them. I can think of a few instances where there have been disputes and disagreements over the goods or the terms, and yes, people have ended up out money to high-heat people... but the rate of occurrence is incredibly low. The last time it happened here was in 06. Anyone care to name the guy? That's why we put so much trust in the system. eBay sellers that go bad and throw away their reputations on a string of bad items are a dime a dozen.
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Sorry, I would NEVER ship first for ANY reason. There is too much at stake. Even if it is a low cost item, I feel I need to be covered and there is NO recourse if I ship first and never get my money. Least for the buyer, if they send money and don't get an item in a timely manner, they can dispute it and most likely get their money back. I feel that no one, for any reason, should ship an item first, regardless of some internet number that may or may not mean anything in the real world.
 
That reminds me, when you guys pay through paypal, how do you set the payment option? Do you list yourself as a buyer, or do you gift it?
 
Bigbacon said:
Sorry, I would NEVER ship first for ANY reason. There is too much at stake. Even if it is a low cost item, I feel I need to be covered and there is NO recourse if I ship first and never get my money. Least for the buyer, if they send money and don't get an item in a timely manner, they can dispute it and most likely get their money back. I feel that no one, for any reason, should ship an item first, regardless of some internet number that may or may not mean anything in the real world.
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Your welcome to trade any way you want, no one should ever pressure you to ship first if your not comfortable doing it.


However, keep in mind that the buyer has no more protection than you do when paying first.

To suggest that PayPal will return money to someone that has been ripped off is laughable at best and should never be relied upon as a form of protection against fraud.

its been proven time and time again, that they cannot and will not be able to get any money from a seller that has no money in their PayPal account.

the only way that you stand a chance is if you pay with a credit card, and even then its not a guarantee
 
I agree,this is a place for good deals. If you want to sell retail, then open up a retail store or go to ebay. Weather he buys from you or not, I could care less, but if you are in here taken advantage of other forum members then that is a problem.The members in here sell in this forum not to make money,but rather give a good deal to people who need it and might not could afford it any other way. Anyone in here can sell on ebay and make more money. Thats no big secret and evey member in here knows that. But for you to hussle in here is dead wrong.

I would not buy from you, nor would I ever sell to you. Thanks for the heads up on how you do business.
 
][F][U][2][;1035326811 said:
I agree,this is a place for good deals. If you want to sell retail, then open up a retail store or go to ebay. Weather he buys from you or not, I could care less, but if you are in here taken advantage of other forum members then that is a problem.The members in here sell in this forum not to make money,but rather give a good deal to people who need it and might not could afford it any other way. Anyone in here can sell on ebay and make more money. Thats no big secret and evey member in here knows that. But for you to hussle in here is dead wrong.

I would not buy from you, nor would I ever sell to you. Thanks for the heads up on how you do business.
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Agreed! I sold many things here knowing that I would get lower prices but I know someone here on hardforum would appreciate it more with the deals I give out.
 
Well the cost to sell stuff here is pretty good too. :)

Even if you manage to get retail on eBay, by the time the fees are done, it's quite possible you may have been money ahead selling it here.
 
As for the shipping first/paying first deal, I personally would expect to pay first, then have items shipped. If its a really new trader I might ask if they are willing to ship first to get a feel for them, see how they respond.

Someone who is absolutely unwilling to compromise, I wouldn't trade with.

For the person being rude part... Welcome to earth. Unfortunately not everyone was raised with good manors. There will always be someone that isn't very friendly.
 
am I wrong in assuming that this individual to which the OP refered is a "trusted trader" here...? seems to me that this sort of selective "club" or "clique" would be just the place where people would feel entitled and better than the other traders here, therefore trying to coerce or bend non "trusted traders" to their will...

are all posters with shit tons of heat allowed in or are there other criteria...?

anyway, haggling over $5 is retardery personified, either you want it or you don't, $5 shouldn't sway you either way, even on a lower ticket item, once he refused the more than fair compromise the OP suggested it was time to tell him to get bent, someone else will buy it, what comes around goes around, he'll probably find that out soon enough...

I've given a little extra on a low ticket item before just to show my appreciation and another time helped with shipping after I received the package when I saw how much the shipping was on the package compared to how much the deal was (I ended up gifting him $10 after the deal was completed to help defer the cost of the shipping because I didn't feel right because it was such a good deal, he didn't ask for it, I offered it)...

I've been lucky so far though, every deal has gone smoothly with the exception of a few delays in shipping, I'm keeping my fingers crossed...
 
The "Established Trader" (note, that's different than trusted!) group is neither official nor terribly meaningful.
But, for what it's worth, the criteria are 100+ heat and 2+ years on the forum, or by recommendation from a current member.
I don't think people that have joined the group feel any more entitled than what their heatware alone affords
 
Oldie said:
Well the cost to sell stuff here is pretty good too. :)

Even if you manage to get retail on eBay, by the time the fees are done, it's quite possible you may have been money ahead selling it here.
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This is why I sell here. I expect to get a lower price, paypal fees are what they are, but there are no auction fees or final value fees, so I figure I net about the same in my pocket.

As for shipping first - no ones ever asked me to do it. Not sure that I would if they did, but I don't think I'd get my feelings hurt about it either.
 
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of ship first either, but I've done 50/50 before. I would probably ship first to someone very well known in the community, but I've never really been in that situation before.
 
wol-va-rine said:
am I wrong in assuming that this individual to which the OP refered is a "trusted trader" here...? seems to me that this sort of selective "club" or "clique" would be just the place where people would feel entitled and better than the other traders here, therefore trying to coerce or bend non "trusted traders" to their will...
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For what it's worth, the person I complained of is not in the Established Traders group despite meeting the qualifications for it.

I've already traded with (one I know for sure, two total, I think) people on that Established Traders group and they were absolutely no BS, even if the group doesn't seem to be very active.

wol-va-rine said:
anyway, haggling over $5 is retardery personified, either you want it or you don't, $5 shouldn't sway you either way, even on a lower ticket item, once he refused the more than fair compromise the OP suggested it was time to tell him to get bent, someone else will buy it, what comes around goes around, he'll probably find that out soon enough...
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That was how I felt about it. I can understand why some people would want to haggle, it's always a good feeling to feel like you got a better deal and to be able to do business with someone willing to work with you... which is why I try to split the difference of the haggle and make it mutually beneficial rather than give in to their demands.

And what's what it felt like then, he was trying to make me bend to the way he wanted everything to be, using the excuse of his "reputation" to force my hand. I didn't appreciate that in the slightest. The way the deal worked out was that he -was- going to buy the bundle and then decided he wanted a free (listed at $15) item on top of it. I asked him $5 to cover increase in shipping. He balked and called the whole thing off with a lot of remarks that reeked of egotism and expectations of being pampered to.

wol-va-rine said:
I've given a little extra on a low ticket item before just to show my appreciation and another time helped with shipping after I received the package when I saw how much the shipping was on the package compared to how much the deal was (I ended up gifting him $10 after the deal was completed to help defer the cost of the shipping because I didn't feel right because it was such a good deal, he didn't ask for it, I offered it)...

I've been lucky so far though, every deal has gone smoothly with the exception of a few delays in shipping, I'm keeping my fingers crossed...
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I've already had two other folks make the gesture of adding more to cover fees or the cost of shipping because they didn't know I was going to ship Priority. I also don't consider the deal done until they acknowledge they got the package and everything is to their satisfaction... so I keep communication open the entire time. It seems to me it shouldn't, but that surprised a few. I don't know what that's supposed to say. Heh.
 
Oldie said:
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of ship first either, but I've done 50/50 before. I would probably ship first to someone very well known in the community, but I've never really been in that situation before.
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My first sale here was an e8400. Now I didn't have a ton of Heat maybe ten sales but a couple of them were crosstrades. Anyways the guy basically scolded me in a PM because I didn't want to ship first since I wanted to go the shortest amount of time possible without a cpu. No hard feelings but he gave me the whole who the F do you think you are dealing with bs and insulted my eBay feedback due to one blemish (years ago) due to a misunderstanding on my part which I did rectify. This was from a very active poster here too. Although in his post history you could see this type of behavior quite often.

Anyways this is why I look for three things in a seller and/or buyer. Heatware, post history (great tool), and communication during PMs. I once backed out on a sale where I was to ship first with someone who had very high heat due to very poor (nonexistent really) communication on their behalf.

Vertigo Acid said:
The "Established Trader" (note, that's different than trusted!) group is neither official nor terribly meaningful.
But, for what it's worth, the criteria are 100+ heat and 2+ years on the forum, or by recommendation from a current member.
I don't think people that have joined the group feel any more entitled than what their heatware alone affords
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The person that I was mentioned who was interested in my e8400 is in this group. I know that I wouldn't do any business with him.
 
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I always wait until I receive 100% of the funds before shipping. I NEVER make any exceptions. I also don't normally ask people to ship first. I ask for references, if they cannot provide any at all, I may ask them to ship first, and if they refuse, I just move on. No pressure on the person to do something they do not want to do.

I have over 100 HEAT, over 100 Ebay feedback, and somewhere in the 100 range itrader on another forum. I do not think it unreasonable to ask someone to ship first if they haven't established a rep anywhere at all yet.

In your case though I would have accepted the Ebay feedback as good enough. I also never pressure people to drop the price, if they say no my response is either "no prob." or "you know where to find me if you change your mind".
 
I had a situation with a regular a while back where he shipped me a drive that died about 3 days after sent it to me. I made the mistake of not asking what the warranty was on it. It was oem with no warranty. Theoretically he didnt owe me anything but after some haggling we came to an agreement of he refunding me 20-30$ if I shipped it back as proof. We remained civil about the whole thing but it really sucks when you have situations go down like that. If someones a complete turd I dont even bother I'll get a Mod if ones needed. I'm never mean to anybody but sometimes I ignore pm's I feel bad about that, but you can assume that means " no and no discussion".

I don't haggle over feedback. If you don't have any feedback then you ship first 10+ and I may consider paying first or half. I dont ship first as theres no reason to and no one generally asks me because I've got high heatware.


One thing about Ebay feedback. As much as it pains me since I have a extremely unique ID and 127+ Ebay feedback. We need to kill Ebay feedback on the forums altogether. I just found out while trading on some canon forums you CAN NOT pm Ebayers anymore unless its regardless a current item you or they have for sale on Ebay so as far as I can tell you cant confirm someones ebay feedback is legit.
 
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