EVE Online chaotic right now.

S

Soyo13

Gawd
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Mar 18, 2006
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Ever since the recent patch CCP been under heavy fire thousands people... Many threadnoughts and heavy flaming resulting couple people getting perma banned. And right now as I type people are protesting in Jita and Amarr. The help channel is chaotic that ISD had to muted EVERYONE.

All because of the recent patch and the leaked documents about the planned microtranscations.

Article on the MT
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/22...bulletin-shows-ccps-refreshing-new-direction/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/22/rumour-leaked-document-shows-ccps-microtransaction-plans/

Protest thread
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536803&page=1

Help channel chaos
HelpChannel.jpg


2,000 People in Jita and majority of them orbiting the gates and shooting the memorial structure.
2m481ue.jpg


Amarr protest
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Riots spreading and high profile player (Chirbba) joining the protest.
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/24...wn-jita-surrounding-systems-very-crowded-too/

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - ‪CCP after Incarna deployment‬‏[/ame]

An overdue apology and request for parley thread that reached 192+ pages in less 24 hours.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536065&page=1
 
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That's surprising. CCP is usually the anti-standard. They do what people like, but this time..it seems greed wins.

Good for the protesters, I hope their pew pew on the statue pays off.
 
I think CCP should go for some realism...spawn in some guards and start gunning down protestors. Viva la revolucion! :D
 
So people are mad that some luxury items cost money? Sorry just trying to get my bearings here.
 
Biggest problem is that there clearly is a plan to introduce advantage items for RL cash in EVE. Players are asking if this is true and they keep circling and avoiding which is ultimately clear sign of it being true. Basically expensive MMO that almost requires at least two accounts to actually play efficiently and crapload of MT coming on top of that. :p

We are talking about stuff that is not available from player effort (like +10 implants) and of course utterly ridiculous prices for their Incarna clothes. Something like 80 bucks for a monocle and even cheapest item costs almost 10 bucks. :D
 
CryingGod said:
So people are mad that some luxury items cost money? Sorry just trying to get my bearings here.
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That is a tiny tiny bit of the issue, but really isn't anything at all. The main thing is, an internal document got leaked from CCP talking about selling all kinds of things for money (ships, faction, skills, items, etc). It was confirmed by CCP that the document leaked is legit and not fake. They have not answered a single person when asked if you are going to only keep vanity items for purchase with real money.

As you can expect, with no answer about the most vocal question and the reason for the riot in the game and forums to start has still not been answered or even responded to in any sort of fashion. Which leads the players to, if it was no, they would of said no cause everything would of died off extremely quickly if that was the case, instead of they aren't saying anything which leads to the other answer that none of the players want, a yes.

A lot of other stuff is a problem as well, but that is the main one.

People are pissed, we have gone like 18 months with no real content updates (sov/lag changes/fixes are just bug fixes and not content). Incarna the newest expansion that has just come out on Tuesday, has literally no content for the game. They introduced captains quarters where you can now walk around with your character but still can not interact with other characters and introduced the Noble Exchange store (NEX) where you can buy vanity items for your character.

Basically Incarna is nothing more then a showroom for the stuff you buy with real money currently.
 
This is the one MMO that I have really wanted to try. But unfortunatly I have no idea were to begin and these makes it even more complicated. I also understand that if you started now you would never "catch up" or get to experience end game content because you weren't in from the begining.

From what I have read in the past EVE has a vibriant economy built into the game (even has corporations and such). It sounds like they want to introduce a micro transaction system to were you can now purchase the things that take a lot of in game work to achieve? Basicly gutting the economy and devaulting "PLEX" or whatever it is called?

Am I correct?
 
Microtransactions is going to happen because that's the way to make more money. Some hardcore bitter vets will leave but a bazillion The Sims players will join and pay.
 
XvMMvX said:
This is the one MMO that I have really wanted to try. But unfortunatly I have no idea were to begin and these makes it even more complicated. I also understand that if you started now you would never "catch up" or get to experience end game content because you weren't in from the begining.
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Depends on what you mean by "end-game content". Eve doesn't "end" depending on what you want to do and plan to do.
XvMMvX said:
From what I have read in the past EVE has a vibriant economy built into the game (even has corporations and such). It sounds like they want to introduce a micro transaction system to were you can now purchase the things that take a lot of in game work to achieve? Basicly gutting the economy and devaulting "PLEX" or whatever it is called?

Am I correct?
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Pretty much.
 
XvMMvX said:
From what I have read in the past EVE has a vibriant economy built into the game (even has corporations and such). It sounds like they want to introduce a micro transaction system to were you can now purchase the things that take a lot of in game work to achieve? Basicly gutting the economy and devaulting "PLEX" or whatever it is called?

Am I correct?
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Corporations are, for practical purposes with regards to the economy, totally meaningless.
What is true that EVE is a slow paced game by any standards. This has, from day one, be a main weakness of the game in terms of attracting new players.

People join the game, realize that it will take at the very minimum a couple of weeks before they can do anything meaningful, and just walk away. Subscriber numbers are all over the place and are really not a meaningful measure of success because one individual can easily have dozens of accounts. While all of those accounts generate income for CCP there's no growth.

One measure of growth is the concurrent player count. How many people are actually online at any one given time. Since everyone plays on the same server it's easy to keep track of those numbers and those numbers have been largely flat for more than a year.

Now, there are some companies who may think that as long as they are profitable it doesn't matter that the numbers are flat, but CCP in recent years has shown that the previous non-expansionist attitude has changed quite a bit and now they want more bodies. EVE is a cash cow, and it will be even more of a cash cow once they go microtransaction. A lot of the EVE players have grown up, used to be teenagers when the game first came out and are now professionals who don't mind to just dump cash into the game rather than time. The overwhelming success of PLEX (cash to ingame currency conversion) has demonstrated that.

Lots of older players have stashed hundreds if not thousands of PLEXes. They are now fucked because a PLEX is no longer a safe investment. Of course they are upset.

However, the thing to remember is that there are approximately 300k subscriptions and let's just for argument's sake say that's 100k actual people (3 accounts each, on average). The drama you see on the forum are a very vocal but very very miniscule minority of the overall game population. Basically those people don't matter. Even if they would all quit EVE would still be better off with microtransactions going forward because MT ensures growth.

All of a sudden the game where it took weeks to do stuff will be accessible to people who only have an hour a week but don't mind dropping $50 into the game per week to have a blast during that one hour, and that's all that really matters.
 
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/06/25...-shows-the-reasoning-behind-ccp-zulu-devblog/

Wow, if this is legit, wow......

We also know there are 52 idiots, I'd bet half of them are on the market too.

If the link is down here is what it says (they are getting slammed hard)

[qoute]sent by hilmar to ccp global list-

(strt)

We live in interesting times; in fact CCP is the kind of company that if things get repetitive we instinctively crank it up a notch. That, we certainly have done this week. First of we have Incarna, an amazing technological and artistic achievement. A vision from years ago realized to a point that no one could have imaged but a few months ago. It rolls out without a hitch, is in some cases faster than what we had before, this is the pinnacle of professional achievement. For all the noise in the channel we should all stand proud, years from now this is what people will remember.

But we have done more, not only have we redefined the production quality one can apply to virtual worlds with the beautiful Incarna but we have also defined what it really means to make virtual reality more meaningful than real life when it comes to launching our new virtual goods currency, Aurum.

Naturally, we have caught the attention of the world. Only a few weeks ago we revealed more information about DUST 514 and now we have done it again by committing to our core purpose as a company by redefining assumptions. After 40 hours we have already sold 52 monocles, generating more revenue than any of the other items in the store.

This we have done after months of research by a group of highly competent professionals, soliciting input and perspective from thought leaders and experts in and around our industry. We have communicated our intention here internally in very wide circles through the Virtual Economy Summit
presentation at the GSM, our Fearless newsletter, sprint reviews, email lists and multiple other channels. This should not come as a surprise to anyone.

Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback_ on what we are doing. Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change.

We went out with a decisive strategy on pricing and we will stay the course and not flip flop around or knee jerk react to the predictable. That is not saying nothing will change, on the contrary, in fact we know that success in this space is through learning and adapting to _what is actually happening_ and new knowledge gained in addition to what we knew before and expected.

All that said, I couldn’t be prouder of what we have accomplished as a company, changing the world is hard and we are doing it as so many times before! Stay the course, we have done this many times before.

(end)[/quote]

Hilmar is the CEO of CCP
 
Is this a case of people believing their own bullshit?

I too would really like to try EVE, but I don't feel like buying accounts(dunno why, just have this thing against taking over someone else's account) or in game items, which has made it difficult to get into it too much.

So yeah, I wish they'd instead work on making the game accessible to new players instead of doing cash grabs like this. So they made just over $3k on monocles + other random stuff, and they pissed off how many hundreds of players in the process? I don't see how that's really worth it.
 
Zulu, Soundwave and Hilmar must be entered in some Alliance Dick Eating tournament that I didn't hear about.

Also, I really doubt "Sims" players will be likely to put up with the Eve UI, so I'm guessing CCP is pretty much fucked.
 
Andrew_Carr said:
So they made just over $3k on monocles + other random stuff, and they pissed off how many hundreds of players in the process? I don't see how that's really worth it.
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Simple math really. A pissed off player's $15/mo is worth the same as a happy player's $15/mo. The majority of those who bitch and moan don't put their money where their mouth is, instead they still keep paying for EVE because there's simply no other game like it out there. Only a small number of players truly walks away for good.

I quit EVE when they posted the whole "no improvement to the game for 18 months" dev blog but I am still paying for two accounts because I know for a fact that I will be able to sell both of them for a tidy sum of RL cash as soon as The Sims players enter EVE.

I know three more players who quit the game but keep maintaining their accounts. We don't pay for the game time with RL cash, we have all accumulated enough ISK to pay for our accounts till the end of days so there's no reason to walk away for good as long as you manage to over time cash out ISK to RL cash.
 
Thuleman said:
Lots of older players have stashed hundreds if not thousands of PLEXes. They are now fucked because a PLEX is no longer a safe investment. Of course they are upset.
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Could you please explain why this is so?

I don't play Eve but I do find the economics of the game interesting, especially how it interacts with the real world.
 
spindoctor said:
Could you please explain why this is so?

I don't play Eve but I do find the economics of the game interesting, especially how it interacts with the real world.
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You know, good thing you asked, because my previous statement was really a not well thought out knee-jerk reaction. Now that I had some time to reflect on that I no longer believe that those who have a bunch of PLEX stashed away are screwed.

A PLEX is a token that I can buy from CCP for $15. That token entitles the bearer to 30 days of game time if the bearer chooses to convert the token to game time. The token can also be traded, sold, destroyed, etc, at any given time there are dozens if not hundreds of PLEX for sale on the market.

The price those PLEX fetch is largely a function of how many PLEX are available and how easy it is for players to generate in-game currency within a reasonable period of time if the goal of the buyer is to convert the PLEX to game time. For us in the 1st World $15 is no big deal. Enter Romania where $15 is still a lot of money. A Romanian player may choose to burn his time to generate in-game currency and then use that currency to buy a PLEX to convert it to 30 days of game time.

To me it doesn't make sense to spend 3 hours on making 380 million ISK (recent price for PLEX) because I'd rather just pay $15 and spend my three hours gained on something else. But there are a lot of players out there who have no RL cash but all the time in the world to generate ISK. They buy PLEX for ISK, and they will continue to buy PLEX even if there are microtransactions for stuff.

Then there are the botters. They generate ISK via automation, market bots, mining bots, anomaly bots, ratting bots. They too buy PLEX for ISK to convert to game time because their ISK is essentially free, it only costs electricity to power the rigs that bot. These users too will continue to buy PLEX regardless of microtransactions.

Both those groups will continue to provide a solid demand for PLEX.

If anything the PLEX price may actually go up because now that you can buy stuff for RL cash directly rather than having to buy a PLEX for RL cash, then sell the PLEX for ISK, and then use the ISK to buy stuff. This may lead to fewer PLEX sellers because those who are willing to convert RL cash to in-game stuff no longer need to do it via the PLEX "proxy" for some of the items.

So yeah, I don't really see a scenario in which the PLEX would be devalued.
 
Thuleman said:
Simple math really. A pissed off player's $15/mo is worth the same as a happy player's $15/mo. The majority of those who bitch and moan don't put their money where their mouth is, instead they still keep paying for EVE because there's simply no other game like it out there. Only a small number of players truly walks away for good.

I quit EVE when they posted the whole "no improvement to the game for 18 months" dev blog but I am still paying for two accounts because I know for a fact that I will be able to sell both of them for a tidy sum of RL cash as soon as The Sims players enter EVE.

I know three more players who quit the game but keep maintaining their accounts. We don't pay for the game time with RL cash, we have all accumulated enough ISK to pay for our accounts till the end of days so there's no reason to walk away for good as long as you manage to over time cash out ISK to RL cash.
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The conservative number is 2K+ canceled accounts in the last 2 days. It's not a matter of happy or sad, CCP is currently out > $31500/month in the past few days, fair trade for $3400 in one time purchases. :rolleyes:
 
They are still protesting in Jita, they are still blasting away at the monument/statue
 
Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. Do you have any specific brands? Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name brand? Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop. Why would you want to wear a pair of $1,000 jeans when you can get perfectly similar jeans for under $50? What do other people think about you when they see you wearing them? For some you will look like the sad culmination of vainness while others will admire you and think you are the coolest thing since sliced bread. Whichever it is, it is clear that by wearing clothes you are expressing yourself and that the price is one of the many dimensions that clothes possess to do that in addition to style and fit. You don't need to buy expensive clothes. In fact you don't need to buy any clothes. Whatever you choose to do reflects what you are and what you want others to think you are.
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Wow, I've never seen such douchebaggery from a developer before.
 
The King of Pants said:
The conservative number is 2K+ canceled accounts in the last 2 days. It's not a matter of happy or sad, CCP is currently out > $31500/month in the past few days, fair trade for $3400 in one time purchases. :rolleyes:
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TBH I seriously doubt that number because in my own experience people who say on the forum that they cancelled their 16 accounts rarely actually do so. These days I don't stay in touch with that many EVE players anymore but I personally don't know anyone who has cancelled an account.

The other thing to consider is that cancelled doesn't really mean anything unless the person who cancelled actually walks away. For example, accounts paid via PLEX can't even be cancelled, they just expire. It's pretty easy to "rage cancel" and then either pay via PLEX or simply resubscribe after two weeks (once one cooled down and realized that the sky is not falling) before the subscription is due.

There were a few occasions in EVE history where alleged mass cancellations happened. Mothership nerf, carrier nerf, etc., yet at the end of the day rage wears out and players returned to their accounts like CCP knew they would.
 
Big deal. Eve players overall are too pussy to quit the game so they can bitch and whine all they want and its not gonna make a difference.
 
Even those who "cancel" will largely get over it and resub up/buy PLEX before their time even runs out. MMO developers know all too well the tendency of players to rage and then run out of steam and get over it.

Look at players online a month from now and see if it's changed. I'll bet it hasn't.
 
NKDietrich said:
Even those who "cancel" will largely get over it and resub up/buy PLEX before their time even runs out. MMO developers know all too well the tendency of players to rage and then run out of steam and get over it.

Look at players online a month from now and see if it's changed. I'll bet it hasn't.
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Reminds me of the screenshot of the "Boycott MW2" Steam group the day of MW2's release. Literally 90% of them were all playing MW2. :p
 
I don't think boycotting just yet is really necessary as nothing in the NEX shop is anything other than vanity items. But if/when they do put stuff that isn't vanity on there, that is when I will stop continuing my subs for my 3 accounts with plexs.

I absolutely will not play a game where I have to pay a monthly fee and you can buy actual non vanity things with more money. I've been playing Eve for almost 2 1/2 years and I love the game, nothing else is like it out there, but I have no problem at all dropping it to stand up for what I believe in. Sadly too many others are not like that and give in to their desires instead.
 
...to make virtual reality more meaningful than real life...
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sounds like some nerds at ccp actually take themselves way to seriously. no matter how serious they take themselves, just the same as the commanders leading a major alliance, in the end it is a spaceship video game set to space wallpaper.

eve is a total snooze-fest, even when you have a decently skilled character you are left with a few clicks and a lot of staring at your monitor... and a lot of being in your head (i don't play games to think and be in my head, i do that enough). and then dust514 they made for console players? and that too looks like a prettier planetside (nothing better). as soon as any mmo or game (ie. team fortress 2) opens up an item mall and sells shit for real money i hit the delete button.

KaOTiK said:
I don't think boycotting just yet is really necessary as nothing in the NEX shop is anything other than vanity items. But if/when they do put stuff that isn't vanity on there, that is when I will stop continuing my subs for my 3 accounts with plexs.
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i wouldn't consider implants vanity items... also, here is quote from their greed is good newsletter:
One other service we’re looking at is selling faction standings. We want to offer convenience for a price.
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what i don't understand is why people couldn't see this coming??? they allow people to purchase in-game currency for real cash so long as they are the ones that get the cash... so, either way you cut it selling items for real money began quite some time ago.
 
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Banyan said:
i wouldn't consider implants vanity items... also, here is quote from their greed is good newsletter:

what i don't understand is why people couldn't see this coming??? they allow people to purchase in-game currency for real cash so long as they are the ones that get the cash... so, either way you cut it selling items for real money began quite some time ago.
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What are you talking about with implants? The monocle currently? That is purely a visual implant thing with no stats or function.

Reason people didn't/don't expect them to see non vanity items for money is because a year ago they said they wouldn't, but now are backing away from that.

The plex system is pretty good. I know I wouldn't have 3 accounts if I couldn't pay for them using isk to get a plex as well as probably 90% of the Eve players that do have multiple accounts. There are guys in my alliance that have like 8-9 accounts and most everyone else has 2-3 and no one would pay for more then one, maybe 2 with their own cash.

So it works out great in that regards cause Eve is a game you really need multiple accounts for since you can only train on one character at a time per account.
 
The argument against non-vanity items is that it can potentially screw with the economy or the game as a whole.

When you sell a PLEX for ISK, that ISK didn't appear out of thin air (well it sort of did), players had to create it via ISK faucets (pirate bounties, ISK mission rewards, trade of NPC goods, insurance payout/fraud). The ISK you receive for your PLEX was created using in-game mechanics, not by CCP directly.

When CCP will start selling items which are equal to current in-game items but are created by CCP rather than via existing in-game mechanics, then it will have a major impact on the economy and the game as a whole because the rate of entry of items into the market is no longer governed by in-game mechanics.

Here is a exaggerated example; Imagine a hostile force is about to enter your space and start sieging your stations. You don't have enough gear stockpiled to defend yourself. No problem, a few clicks and a bunch of dollars later you have 1,500 fully fitted battleships ready to be used.

Clearly that would be a game breaking feature and I seriously doubt CCP is going to ever implement something like that.

I can see that they will sell implants, maybe even skillpoints, perhaps POS fuel, or sov (rent a invulnerable system from ccp, I personally think that it would be awesome) and all gear has to be picked up in Empire.

I am all for allowing players to pay RL cash rather than spend RL time because I got RL cash, but my RL time is extremely limited.
 
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Thuleman said:
I can see that they will sell implants, maybe even skillpoints, perhaps POS fuel, or sov (rent a invulnerable system from ccp, I personally think that it would be awesome) and all gear has to be picked up in Empire.

I am all for allowing players to pay RL cash rather than spend RL time because I got RL cash, but my RL time is extremely limited.
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sigh.......
 
Man, from those screenshots, Eve just looks like a clusterfuck of a game.
 
there is a simple solution to this. QUIT SUPPORTING THEM AND QUIT BUYING THEIR CRAP.
 
I stopped playing a while back. CCP make it too hard on the little guy. I have a few nice faction fitted ships but I realised its taken me years to earn the isk for them. As soon as there is a nice profit to be made that the little guy actually has access to its dumped on by CCP. I simply gave up trying. Pointless game run by people who don't give a hit about anything other than the ingame currency and creaming off the top middle and bottom of every single thing making only huge transactions worth while.
 
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