EVGA screwed up ACX on the 970.

Huh. Welp.

I bought mine at Microcenter, so it's not like there isn't a very liberal return policy. Still, no problems thus far. Kind of a shitty system - if the FTW really is better, I'd have 'stepped up' to that, and potentially SLI'ed them in time.
 
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Armenius said:
But the heatsink is different. It looks like it is using 8 horizontal pipes instead of the 3 vertical on the SC and SSC.
http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2222180
download.axd
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Hmm. Interesting. So they engineered a new solution specifically for the FTW? Weird.
 
Well, the FTW is pretty highly-clocked for a 970. It's effectively a 980 in speed, only without the 980's overhead.
 
Chas said:
http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=04G-P4-2978-KR

Again, no it isn't. It's an ACX cooler.
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Basically ACX, or Windforce, or TwinFrozr or whatever is just a branding line. It doesn't actually denote the exact same physical cooling solution.

You'll notice these companies will use the same cooler branding from products much further down like the GTX 750 all the way up but obviously they aren't using the same physical cooling solution for the <75W TDP 750ti as the 250w TDP GTX 780ti. Those that make cards for AMD as well will have the same cooler branding for their AMD cards.

Chas said:
Hmm. Interesting. So they engineered a new solution specifically for the FTW? Weird.
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Yes and no. It seems like EVGA used the same heatsinks (barring fan differences with ACX 2.0 branding) from their GTX 7xx series line. EVGA ACX GTX 760s had two heatsink types, one for the FTW edition and one for the rest. ACX 770s+ also had a different heatsink. The ACX 970 FTW seems to the 760 FTW heatsink while the rest use the regular ACX 760 heatsink. The ACX 980 may use the heatsink used in the 770+
.
So yes it looks like they made a heatsink specifically for the FTW but not the 970 FTW (if that makes sense to you). Life's complicated sometimes :p
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
That is just 4 really long heatpipes with the middle section of each pipe placed against the core. Stretching them out like that does help to cover more heatsink area, but there are in fact only 4 pipes touching the core.
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You're right, my brain wasn't working... :eek: Ignoring the "auxillary" pipe on the SC and SSC, this does look like a better heatsink design overall. My real grip is that they're still using the old I/O layout on this "higher-end" model... Why do they refuse to go with NVIDIA's reference of 3x DP, 1x HDMI, and 1x DVI-I? It makes more sense in this day-and-age... Then again, if I was going multi-monitor I would be buying the 980 anyway.
 
Newegg has the 2.0 ACX (04G-P4-2974-KR) in stock if anyone is interested
 
I got mine and put it in my system yesterday. Slightly noisier than my old card at idle due to the higher idle fan speed (35%? Really?), but I don't really notice it on load. I don't hear any coil noise, but my PC is on the floor next to my desk and the case is closed.

Wish I could set the fan speed lower than 35%, but I guess the BIOS limits that?
 
Well, in light of learning I can't just 'step up' to a FTW version ~2 months from now, and instead would be forced to pay something like 200+ to go up to a stock version 980, I just jumped on MSI's Gaming 4G being in stock at TigerDirect, and got $15 off from their 'let us pester you with emails' offer.

Microcenter's going to cut me off from returns eventually. -_-
 
ocellaris said:
So that's...
Me
Hamateer
FRZ
Blerple
GoldenTiger (one card?)
Ochadd

Not looking good for EVGA's quality standards right now. People on the EVGA forums are complaining and posting videos as well:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8g0b_m-Mc0&feature=youtu.be
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That sounds just like my small grinder that i use to sharpen a few knifes once in awhile. :cool:

hnic said:
Did EVGA ex-communicate the [H], as well? The last EVGA products reviewed were in 2009. Also, it's hilarious reading the white knights over at the EVGA forums. Desperately clinging to defending them despite reports provided by multiple users corroborating the use of cheaper parts for their cards (predominately coil whine). People are even suggesting things to "burn in" their card to reduce coil whine, along with increasing voltage. One guy asked if decreasing voltage would help with it. Ridiculous. Brand loyalty can be a dangerous thing.
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Noticed that too. I call it fanaticism. Personally im not one of those brand loyalty crazy fanatics. And i never understood that fanaticism. I've had Asus cards, Gigabyte, EVGA, Sapphire, i even have my old BFG 8800. To me what is important is that certain card i buy, to be a great product. I want to pay for quality. Not for garbage. And certainly extra not for brand.

For me this time the 970 variants from MSI and Gigabyte are one of the best. Sure the other ones from Asus, Palit, the tiny Zotac looks sweet too and performs decently (i havent forgot upcoming Inno3D HerculezX4 monster lol).Each with their own strengths. Not as EVGAarbage that's for sure. EVGA totally failed with Maxwell.But MSI and Gigabyte seem to have all those pluses. EVGA forum is crazy. They should have torches and pitchforks as their entry logo lmao.

20140521-1.jpg
 
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so does EVGA plan on releasing an updated version of the 970 or are they going to stick with the flawed design (and offering free backplates)?...with all the bad press they are getting I'm shocked that they haven't worked faster to fix this
 
Well if they actually fixed it they'd basically be backstepping from their official stance that nothing is wrong, everything is as designed, and the only thing that was needed was a BIOS update.
 
The "issue" has existed since at least the GTX 760 ACX.
If there was anything to be fixed, or if EVGA wanted to fix it, they would have done it already.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
The "issue" has existed since at least the GTX 760 ACX.
If there was anything to be fixed, or if EVGA wanted to fix it, they would have done it already.
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but it didn't effect the 780 cards right?...and do the EVGA 980 cards have this issue?
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
The "issue" has existed since at least the GTX 760 ACX.
If there was anything to be fixed, or if EVGA wanted to fix it, they would have done it already.
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The cooler heat pipes are not an issue, it is something people made up because the internet. For example in a MSI Gaming 970 none of the heat pipes touch the GPU die directly, yet no one bashes them.
 
ocellaris said:
The cooler heat pipes are not an issue, it is something people made up because the internet. For example in a MSI Gaming 970 none of the heat pipes touch the GPU die directly, yet no one bashes them.
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On the internet, everyone is a thermal design expert.
 
Unknown-One said:
Are you saying that the core has zero contact with the base plate / heatpipes?

Sounds like it was warped during production, if that's the case.
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Captain Serious. Read the two posts above mine. Not to be taken seriously. :p:D

I linked to a Walmart Fan.....
 
It doesn't appear to be much of a problem with cooling in regards to the ACX as much as it is a problem of noise. In all the reviews the ACX and ACX 2 are much louder than competitors gtx 970s, even though EVGA costs the same and in some cases more! The ACX 2.0 was supposed to help solve the fan noise issue (at load) but anandtech's review of the evga ftw model shows it is still a pretty loud cooler. That's kinda bad since it is practically on par with the other major brands for cooling performance while being louder and msrp is higher. Wtf.
 
Choopyplz said:
It doesn't appear to be much of a problem with cooling in regards to the ACX as much as it is a problem of noise. In all the reviews the ACX and ACX 2 are much louder than competitors gtx 970s, even though EVGA costs the same and in some cases more! The ACX 2.0 was supposed to help solve the fan noise issue (at load) but anandtech's review of the evga ftw model shows it is still a pretty loud cooler. That's kinda bad since it is practically on par with the other major brands for cooling performance while being louder and msrp is higher. Wtf.
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Did you read the update after installing the new firmware?

Update 9/26: Though EVGA missed the initial cut-off for this review, later in the day they turned in an beta/engineering version of their upcoming vBIOS with the zero fan speed idle changes worked in, along with a new fan curve. We can confirm that the zero fan speed function is working in this BIOS, rendering the card silent at idle.

Overall EVGA is keeping the fans off until about 63C, at which point the fan controller starts ramping up the fans until it finally supplies enough power for them to kick in. Even under a max TDP load (FurMark) the fans are up and running by 67C.

At the same time EVGA&#8217;s new fan curve has adjusted their equilibrium point from 63C to 73C. At max TDP load our card now tops out at 73C, which corresponds to a fan duty cycle of 29%, or 42dB. This new curve places the fan load noise levels at less than the previous curve&#8217;s idle levels, and now makes this one of the quietest midrange enthusiast cards we have ever reviewed.
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Good on EVGA, too bad they also sell a bunch of cards without ACX 2.0 coolers and couldn't get it right for launch.
 
ocellaris said:
Good on EVGA, too bad they also sell a bunch of cards without ACX 2.0 coolers and couldn't get it right for launch.
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Just to be clear, only the FTW edition uses the improved heatsink seen here.
All of the other models, including ACX 1.0 and 2.0, use the design with the offset heatpipe.

I don't know how the bios will effect other models but the AnandTech article is specifically reviewing the FTW edition, also.
 
flopticalcube said:
Did you read the update after installing the new firmware?
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I did know about the fan curve update, but afaik at least the MSI and Asus 970s are still quieter at load, and are slightly cooler to boot. I'm not sure if that has to do with clock speeds or what. Obviously the margin between those and the evga is small though, but still seems weird to have to pay more for basically the same (slightly worse?) cooler performance on the evga card.
 
Choopyplz said:
I did know about the fan curve update, but afaik at least the MSI and Asus 970s are still quieter at load, and are slightly cooler to boot. I'm not sure if that has to do with clock speeds or what. Obviously the margin between those and the evga is small though, but still seems weird to have to pay more for basically the same (slightly worse?) cooler performance on the evga card.
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If it means not having to deal with ASUS' customer service then it's worth the extra $30 or whatever it is.
Can't speak for MSI.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
Just to be clear, only the FTW edition uses the improved heatsink seen here.
All of the other models, including ACX 1.0 and 2.0, use the design with the offset heatpipe.

I don't know how the bios will effect other models but the AnandTech article is specifically reviewing the FTW edition, also.
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Both the FTW and the other ACX 2.0 models get the 0db mode. All the models (ACX 1.0, 2.0 and blower) get a less aggressive fan curve at the expense of a higher target temp.
 
polonyc2 said:
so the heatsink issue has been overblown and is not a big deal?
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Well, that is a separate issue but yes, its kind of a non-issue issue. Its the same heatsink that most of the 760 ACXs had. It looks like some 760's had a version where all three heatpipes made contact with the chip and these have not yielded better temps. The FTW heatsink is a different beast than the standard, SC or SSC one and seems to bring lower temps for the FTW's higher clocks.
 
There seems to be a general misunderstanding of what the issues are here.

A heatsinks cooling performance is based upon noise and temperature ratios. With the exact same heatsink you can lower noise by lowering fan speed and taking a tradeoff in increasing temperatures, or lower temperatures by increasing fan speed with a trade off in noise.

Noise by itself is a subjective and relative thing. You can't really definitively classify something as loud or quiet, only whether it is louder or quieter.

At launch the EVGA cards were tested to have comparable temperatures to other brands however at the expense of more noise. They have since released a new bios to adjust fan speeds to make noise levels comparable to other brands, however if you were to retest I am sure you will find that now temperatures are higher than other brands. Trying to spin it (puns!) in any other way is just marketing cover. EVGA cooling solution is however not as strong as from Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI for example.

The heatpipe coverage issue is a possible explanation of why EVGAs heatsink is not as good. It is not a manufacturing defect. Let's ignore the theory for a moment and just look at how in practice heatsinks are generally designed with a heatspreader or aim for direct contact with the heatpipes to optimize efficiency. The FTW opts for a heatspreader, if this served no advantage why not maintain the same design and just have not all heatpipes making contact? Does this mean it is the sole reason? No, but likely a contributing factor.

The GTX 760 comparison's are because the GTX 970 seems to share the exact same board and heatsink design. The criticism here is that the GTX 970 is a more expensive part and a higher product tier than the GTX 760 was. This can't be for any reason other than cost savings.

The GTX 970 FTW by the way doesn't appear to have any heatsink contact for the VRMs.

EVGA is known for their good service. They however have not been known for their heatsink designs or board designs. Let's give credit where credit is due and criticism where well placed. EVGA 970s design is weaker relatively to competitors and likely this way due to cost savings but they are still functional (and not necessarily bad or the worst) plus you'll still get EVGAs good service.
 
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