Facebook’e, Dano!

[FrgMstr]

I swear to you, we were not cheating, we were simply sharing resources which is truly why the Internet was invented. That and pr0n.

First-year student Chris Avenir is fighting charges of academic misconduct for helping run an online chemistry study group via Facebook last term, where 146 classmates swapped tips on homework questions that counted for 10 per cent of their mark.

 

[Zerikin Loukbel]

Somebody fails at understanding technology in the chemistry department apparently.

 

[Trepidati0n]

I have two points.

1. There is a difference between collaboration and copying.

2. I find it funny about the "academic advantage" statement. I guess showing up to class would qualify under that. Oh…studying as well.

 

[EODetroit]

Swapping answers or swapping tips on how to get to the answers? The devil is in the details.

 

[InorganicMatter]

Teachers are getting harder and harder on homework help. A professor of mine tried to give two people F's in the course for simply discussing the homework with each other; their answers didn't even match. It is stupid, and I'm not defending the teacher's policies (it's a proven fact that people who study together score higher), but at my school, in the first session of each class, I have to sign a paper agreeing to abide by that teacher's policy on academic honesty, which typically includes a clause on what is allowed/forbidden as far as homework help goes. It's stupid, but it's still the rules, and they still agreed to follow the rules or face the consequences.

 

[sfsuphysics]

Ok being a teacher myself in the college setting I have a few of my thoughts to share.

1. What was actually on the facebook site? It wasn't very clear, the students side kept saying "so asking questions how to approach..." however the place was called "Mastering Chemistry Solutions" <-- which to me says they post the solutions to the problems, and it's not just "helping". But not knowing exactly what is posted. But it makes me wonder 146 students actually "participated" i.e. asking questions, or did 146 students just sign up to look at the answers? So without knowing exactly what was going on, it's hard to come to a conclusion.

2. What's the teacher's policy on sharing homework solutions? That's what should matter here not a case of academic fraud or what not, I mean oooh it's 10% of the total grade, big whoop, for my classes homework is anywhere from 25 to 35% of the total grade. I don't mind students working together, and if they do it's logical to think they'll come to the same conclusions. However if I do see students with work that is word for word, line for line identical (which I have seen before) I simply divide the total number of points by the number of students that were in the "copy ring"

3. This ties into #1 this probably goes beyond the digital format of the posting, but what are the rules if this kid posted whatever was on that site (whether it was hints or full blown solutions) on his dorm room door? The answer to this question will make this a cut and dry case IMO.

146 students is a lot of students, unfortunately this is the norm (or a small class) for larger universities, and many times you don't get any teacher time for help it's "talk to a one of the GTAs" which unfortunately many "Professors" are nothing but researchers who have to teach to keep their position (and paycheck) at the school. I have never taught a class with that many students, and if I did I would be VERY lenient as far as homework is concerned.

 

[benw17]

wow...

my school encourages online classrooms and group collaborations. we even go as far as telling each other what page the answer is, and explain in detail what the answers mean while the teacher is there. City College San Francisco

 

[sfsuphysics]

Ok, just re-read the story, and looked at the end parts a little more closely which does shed some light on things.

While Neale admits the professor stipulated the online homework questions were to be done independently, she said it has long been a tradition for students to brainstorm homework in groups, particularly in heavy programs such as law, engineering and medicine.

Point one, policy is you work on your own damn homework, period. It might be an "unfair" thing, but it's the teacher's policy and you need to heed that, not what "tradition" is.

Each student in the course received slightly different questions to prevent cheating, she said, and she did not see evidence of students doing complete solutions for each other. Instead, she said, they would brainstorm about techniques.

This enforces the whole "these are YOUR problems" idea about working alone idea. While I don't think this deserves an expulsion, having an "unfair advantage" claim does seem to have some merit. Don't like the University's policies? Maybe should have read them a little more closely before going there, unsure what type of school it is (Is it like DeVry?) but these things should be seriously looked at when choosing a school.

Also with the online aspect of the homework, makes me wonder if tests were also done as "take home" assignments in which case this is more than simply helping homework. Hopefully this kid kept a backup of the whole site because as far as students-faculty go that's going to be his own defense in this matter most likely.

 

[sK8z]

Typo in the title... i had to look at my keyboard to figure out why i was having trouble getting it
you meant "facebook'em" but got "facebook'e,"

 

[sK8z]

on the article though, we did this a few years ago.. just on a private forum... it worked great

 

[J Macker]

That's nothing. For my Calculus Physics series, each student's problems had the numbers randomly generated.

One student wrote a javascript for each new homework where all you had to do was type in your numbers and it gave you the answer.

On conceptual questions, he just gave you the correct answer.

All the online homework was 10% of your total grade.

 

[nigerian_businessman]

I think as long as there were not complete solutions there shouldn't be a problem. From reading the article, this looks like nothing more than people giving each other pointers about how to approach a problem, allowing each student to come to their own solution. This type of studying should be encouraged, and any policy to the contrary is counter-productive and should be examined.

This looks to me like someone in the administration judging the book by it's cover.

 

[DanniBoy]

School has gotten more anal.

My engineering classes always promoted networking. Hell I even had a teacher (that couldn't teach for shit) for one class that said (in my own words) your an idiot if you don't copy/network homework and keep getting 0% on them because you end up doing it all wrong while everyone else is getting full marks. Then again hw was only 10%. He really wanted us to go out and network and work with other people.

 

[Nemesis999]

Anyone that thinks this is excessive is deluding themselves. I've seen these groups for my school. They have little/nothing to do with studying.

Typically a quiz will have ~50 questions of which you are assigned a mix of 10. These groups simply reform the list of 50 and list the correct answers. For the questions where the numbers are generated for each individual they provided step-by-step formula to get the correct answer.

100% pure cheating and the entire group should have been expelled.

 

[InorganicMatter]

Anyone that thinks this is excessive is deluding themselves. I've seen these groups for my school. They have little/nothing to do with studying.

Typically a quiz will have ~50 questions of which you are assigned a mix of 10. These groups simply reform the list of 50 and list the correct answers. For the questions where the numbers are generated for each individual they provided step-by-step formula to get the correct answer.

100% pure cheating and the entire group should have been expelled.

I have to agree with your. Studying together up to a point helps, but in situations like this, 2 or 3 smart people do all the work and make the good grades, and the rest leech of them for homework, and fail the quizzes/exams.

 

[dirtypop]

Typo in the title... i had to look at my keyboard to figure out why i was having trouble getting it
you meant "facebook'em" but got "facebook'e,"

For serious, can you guys fix this? It's like a steering wheel in my pants; it's driving me nuts.

 

[VanQuiShEr]

The expulsion seems harsh considering that it's only worth 10% of his final mark. They should have given him a zero of that portion and leave everything else. Furthermore with a class of that size it is difficult to find study spaces that are large enough to accommodate larger study groups and convenient enough to meet the demands of many students' schedules.

 

[UnlimitedMP]

Yeah, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. He did not out right cheat, but was the admin of a "gray subject" of cheating/ group study forum.
0% for hw sounds reasonable.

Facing expulsion? Ridiculous, though I doubt he'd actually be expeled.

 

[squares]

I have to agree with your. Studying together up to a point helps, but in situations like this, 2 or 3 smart people do all the work and make the good grades, and the rest leech of them for homework, and fail the quizzes/exams.

Well if the students fail the quizzez/exams that's their own fault for not studying. I admit sometimes I copy my friend's homework and vice versa, but not knowing the material for the tests is just stupid.

 

[Nemesis999]

0% as punishment for open cheating?

There is no grey area. It has nothing to do with study. They produce lists of answers and copy them.

It's only 10%? Guess what? Punishments that only remove the gains of cheating are WORTHLESS. Once a cheater, always a cheater. At the MINIMUM they should get 0% with a note on their transcript stating "Failure due to academic dishonesty". The leader should be expelled.

 

[Nemesis999]

Edit: When I say I mean a minimum punishment, I mean 0% on the course(s), not the homework.

 

[Warn3rv3]

In the Air Force you can go to prison for test compromise for studying at all for an enlisted rank with another enlisted serviceman. Try that on for size.