FM2+ CPU's and BoltonD4 chipset to support PCIe 3.0 (at last!)

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R3MF

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http://wccftech.com/asus-shows-a88xm-pro-fm2-socket-motherboard-kaveri-apus-2/

Two questions:

1. I am presuming that boards that split the 16x electrical lanes into two separate 16x physical slots, can still run 16x electrical if just one slot is used?
2. Does the chipset really support PCIe 3.0, and does this mean the CPU-Chipset link is now 4x PCIe 3.0 too? Great if it does, but i would have expected 2.0.

Oh, and two more:

3. If we are getting 1x PCIe 3.0 slots on the motherboard, are we about to see the beginning of the end of SATA (for solid state storage)?
4. Tell me again why we can't see this FM2+ and Bolton D4 used as the basis of a Steamroller FX eight-core CPU (because haven't seen any good evidence that it couldn't)?

Yes, PCIe 3.0 isn't confirmed in the product literature, but it is pretty definate for Kaveri i'm sure you'll agree.
 
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1.yes
2. not sure
3. not really due to the device being a standard on many platforms and PCi-E 3.0 is not
4. 100 Watt limit , (calculated guess) it will be the same for FM2+ like it is now on FM2.
 
3. Not right now, but where apple leads (with the new Pro and Air) many other will follow, and with no improvement to SATA on the horizon at the same time as SSD's are bumping against the 600MB/s limit...

4. I don't see that as a problem, for if AMD cannot compete at 28nm with Intel's socket 1150 with 16W TDP of extra headroom (over Haswell's 84W), then it has little hope of competing at all.

Kaveri is going to arrive with two steamroller modules and 512 GCN shaders, and 28nm is enough for it to slide into a 100W limit, is it really so crazy that a four steamroller module "FX" with zero shaders could not do the same?
 
Even if a four module is pushing it I don't see why they can't do a three module FM part. Even the AM3+ parts are 95w. Could make for a decent AMD itx option.
 
i imagine they would want a clear differentiation between mainstream APU's and high-end CPU's, so eight would be logical, but with 28nm i don't see that being a problem clock-speed wise with a 100W thermal limit.
 
How much die real estate would an extra module take up on 28nm APU part? I read a rumor that eventually there would be three Steamroller parts: The Kaveri APU, a Steamroller FX with the typical max of four modules, and a third part which is basically the same as the PS4's APU, except instead of Jaguar cores, they use Steamroller cores. GPU's power would be around HD 7850~7870 levels.

Granted, that came from some dude in a comments section on a different website of some article, but apparently he's a credible source. Doesn't seem too far off because AMD themselves stated they would offer a "cut-down" version of the PS4's APU later down the line, though I don't see how it'd be cut down if it'd be using Steamroller cores with a powerful on-die GPU lol.
 
i seem to recall that in trinity die pictures the breadown dowa roughly:
20% = 2 modules
15% = cache
40% = shaders
05% = video
20% = uncore stuff

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...JS5UbbCNsim0AXUtIDIAQ&ved=0CEIQ9QEwAQ&dur=489

rough extrapolation for a four module FX part:
40% = 2 modules (doubled)
30% = cache (doubled)
10% = L3 (exchanged for some of the shader + video die area)
20% = uncore stuff (the same)

both fed by 2x64bit DDR3 2400

all seems terribly reasonable, and much more likely than adding HT4 and PCIe 3.0 to the 1090FX chipset...

after all, the desired goal should be to have the PCIe bus on the die itself, which is never going to happen on AM3+.
 
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NaroonGTX said:
How much die real estate would an extra module take up on 28nm APU part? I read a rumor that eventually there would be three Steamroller parts: The Kaveri APU, a Steamroller FX with the typical max of four modules, and a third part which is basically the same as the PS4's APU, except instead of Jaguar cores, they use Steamroller cores. GPU's power would be around HD 7850~7870 levels.

Granted, that came from some dude in a comments section on a different website of some article, but apparently he's a credible source. Doesn't seem too far off because AMD themselves stated they would offer a "cut-down" version of the PS4's APU later down the line, though I don't see how it'd be cut down if it'd be using Steamroller cores with a powerful on-die GPU lol.
Click to expand...

Which is a 8 core jaguar cpu, not that interesting in general.without the "special" blocks inside, you endup with something which might be nice marketing wise but for "us" Steamroller cores on AM3+ would be faster.
 
R3MF said:
this answers a few questions:

http://anandtech.com/show/7079/amd-evolving-fast-to-survive-in-the-server-market-jungle-

No G34/C32 steamroller opteron, which means don't expect a steamroller eight-core on AM3+, or any putative AM4.

PCIe 3.0 confirmed for Berlin, and so likely for desktop FM2+/Kaveri
.
System Controller Hub link likely to remain PCIe 2.0.
Click to expand...

While I read that entire article earlier, I feel you are in error by assuming that AMD won't continue to offer an 8 "core" FX cpu..

If they were to drop the 8 core part, it would be like admitting that Intel was correct all along, and that 4 cores were all anyone needed..I just don't see it happening..
 
ccityinstaller said:
While I read that entire article earlier, I feel you are in error by assuming that AMD won't continue to offer an 8 "core" FX cpu..

If they were to drop the 8 core part, it would be like admitting that Intel was correct all along, and that 4 cores were all anyone needed..I just don't see it happening..
Click to expand...

All he stated was that there would be no "8-core" Steamroller on the AM3+ platform which is EOL. That doesn't mean there will be no "8-core" Steamroller on FM2+.
 
SithSolo1 said:
All he stated was that there would be no "8-core" Steamroller on the AM3+ platform which is EOL. That doesn't mean there will be no "8-core" Steamroller on FM2+.
Click to expand...

exactly, if they had gone to the trouble of making an operton eight-core to replace piledriver, then yes, we might expect to see that turn up on the desktop via AM3+.

now that steamroller operton eight-core is canned, we can be certain that they aren't going to make such a chip just for their dieing AM3+ platform. it simply will not happen.

given that they intend to move the PCIe bus on-chip anyway, i see no reason why FM2+ could not be used for future gpu-less eight core steamroller FX chips, if they have any intention of making any...
 
R3MF said:
exactly, if they had gone to the trouble of making an operton eight-core to replace piledriver, then yes, we might expect to see that turn up on the desktop via AM3+.

now that steamroller operton eight-core is canned, we can be certain that they aren't going to make such a chip just for their dieing AM3+ platform. it simply will not happen.

given that they intend to move the PCIe bus on-chip anyway, i see no reason why FM2+ could not be used for future gpu-less eight core steamroller FX chips, if they have any intention of making any...
Click to expand...

In theory yes, but in reality 8 cores on 100 Watt , In general I'm optimistic about AMD but this would be the same as a rabbit out of a hat trick.

AM3+ is not really dead it is just waiting for the new 220Watt cpu :) .
 
1. Yes. That would be the same setup as current FM2, LGA1156, 1155, and 1150 boards.

2. No one knows, it's probably still 2.0.

3. Look up SATA-Express. Or click this. It won't be ready in time for this year's chipsets, but will probably debut next year.

4. FM2+ has HSA, and will require an iGPU. If they can cram 4 modules with an iGPU and L3 into 1 die with a 100w TDP, I'm fairly sure they would do it. But they can't, it's impossible for them currently. Maybe when they move to 22nm or 12nm.
 
Tsumi said:
4. FM2+ has HSA, and will require an iGPU. If they can cram 4 modules with an iGPU and L3 into 1 die with a 100w TDP, I'm fairly sure they would do it. But they can't, it's impossible for them currently. Maybe when they move to 22nm or 12nm.
Click to expand...

And, unfortunately, laws of physics tends to crush dreams such as a 4 module/8 thread AMD APU, with L3 cache and an iGPU on a 32nm process while staying at 100W TDP.

Physics even crush dreams of warp drives and faster than light travel.

But, yeah, hopefully by the time AMD moves to 22nm, 20nm, or even 14nm, we may see such a thing happen.
 
Tsumi said:
4. FM2+ has HSA, and will require an iGPU. If they can cram 4 modules with an iGPU and L3 into 1 die with a 100w TDP, I'm fairly sure they would do it. But they can't, it's impossible for them currently. Maybe when they move to 22nm or 12nm.
Click to expand...

FM2+ is a socket standard, where does HSA bear on this?
FM2 is supplied with iGPU-less piledriver quads, what in HSA so dictates the format of a socket standard?

octoberasian said:
And, unfortunately, laws of physics tends to crush dreams such as a 4 module/8 thread AMD APU, with L3 cache and an iGPU on a 32nm process while staying at 100W TDP.
Click to expand...

And yet:
a) It has yet to be demonstrated that FM2+ requires HSA/iGPU
b) Kaveri will be made on 28nm, not 32nm.
 
k4tOYIZ.jpg


We currently don't know why exactly Kaveri's chip design required a modified pin layout, and thus a new socket. Some theories suggest FM2+ boards would come with GDDR5 memory soldered onto the board or chip somewhere, but there's nothing to back this, and all recent information suggests the GDDR5 support (as well as 3-module parts) have been dropped for some reason.

I don't think it has much to do with the HSA. That's more of a chip-design meets software feature-set anyway. AMD could do more powerful APU's if they wanted, and most likely they will with the further they advance with HSA. I recall reading a comment by an AMD employee where they stated that they don't make high-powered APU's because the market "has no demand" for it. Wouldn't the market have demand for it if the advantages of HSA/hUMA computing shows tremendous gains over conventional methods? We'll see...
 
We wont know until we get benchmarks but with hsa wont the gpu and cpu be seen as one by applications? So instead of crossfire use the cpu and a dedicated gpu like the 7970 for gaming. Im assuming the fp performance of the gcn cores in iGPU will greatly improve performance.
 
Well, only applications that are written with HSA in mind or with support of it will benefit from it. I suspect programs that already use GPGPU and OpenCL-type support will receive nice boosts. The iGPU inside the Kaveri will probably be able to crossfire with a broader range of discreet GPU's, and seeing as how they use GCN, the performance boosts will possibly be rather impressive.

I wonder if now, perhaps no matter what discreet GPU you use, the iGPU won't ever lie dormant completely -- maybe when it comes time for HSA-enabled apps, it'll use the iGPU either way it goes for a maximum performance boost. If that's the case, FM2+ may just prove to be a really popular platform in the future.
 
NaroonGTX said:
Well, only applications that are written with HSA in mind or with support of it will benefit from it. I suspect programs that already use GPGPU and OpenCL-type support will receive nice boosts. The iGPU inside the Kaveri will probably be able to crossfire with a broader range of discreet GPU's, and seeing as how they use GCN, the performance boosts will possibly be rather impressive.

I wonder if now, perhaps no matter what discreet GPU you use, the iGPU won't ever lie dormant completely -- maybe when it comes time for HSA-enabled apps, it'll use the iGPU either way it goes for a maximum performance boost. If that's the case, FM2+ may just prove to be a really popular platform in the future.
Click to expand...

Sort of what I am trying to say. What I am wondering is if a game like BF4 which is AMD backed will use the APU(cpu+igpu) for processing and use the discrete card Nvidia/AMD for graphics(no crossfire at all). In theory this would hopefully allow Kaveri to catch up to sandy bridge in cpu performance.
 
rumartinez89 said:
Sort of what I am trying to say. What I am wondering is if a game like BF4 which is AMD backed will use the APU(cpu+igpu) for processing and use the discrete card Nvidia/AMD for graphics(no crossfire at all). In theory this would hopefully allow Kaveri to catch up to sandy bridge in cpu performance.
Click to expand...

It depends really on how good AMD's HSA dev programs are. If it's no more difficult to code using HSA, then developers will use it. If it's far more difficult, then they won't.

And yes, HSA is designed not to be used with hybrid crossfire. The iGPU will supplement the CPU, not the discrete GPU.
 
If HSA is implemented properly, it will increase the floating-point performance of AMD's APUs hundreds-fold. I hope AMD does not screw this up.
 
me too, steamroller+HSA in combination is their last real shot.
 
Anybody looking for any specific features on the new boards? I m hoping for boards with an msata slot.
 
PCIe 3.0, but that is mainly a chip feature, (excepting the batch 3 asus h61 boards that were made electrically compliant with ivy-bridge PCIe 3.0).

mSATA would be nice, but mainly for ITX boards which tend to have it anyway.

the only thing I really want from an AM3+ board is decent power delivery, asetek style 6+1 system as they did for their Z77 mITX board would be nice, or an 8+2 system for larger mATX and ATX boards.
 
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