Folding Fam Client Computers

T

telim

n00b
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
9
Hi guys,

I'm trying to crunch through the numbers on my folding farm. I own a small business here in Canada, reselling PC Hardware (just to friends/family/locals to fund my own PC hobby :) ) with a business license so I can get my hands on wholesale hardware from the Toronto distributors - aka cheap. Which lends itself well to making a folding farm.

The cheapest client computer I've come up with is as follows:

Motherboard:
ECS (aka PC Chips) 945GZT-M v1.0 support
-S775 INTEL 945G, Audio +Video +Lan (bootable) onboard
-FSB 800,DDR2, serial ATA II, PCI Express
$54.99

Processor:
Celeron D 331J 2.66G (64BIT) $39.00
OR
Intel P4 3.0Ghz 2MB (Retail box): $67.99
OR
Intel Pentium D940 (Retail box): $97.99
OR
Intel E2140 1.60 CORE DUO 1M (800 FSB) $100
OR
Intel E4300 1.80 CORE 2 DUO 2M (800 FSB) $126


Ram: Patriot Signature 512MB DDR2 800MHz $24.99 (lol $24!, I know!)

Total: $117-$210 per machine. CAD. And I don't pay PST taxes on them.

As for Power Supplies, I can get Delta power supplies for $13.99ea for a 450W (Buy 9 get 1 free), and maybe rig 2-3 computers per power supply? But these are super-cheap supplies which are probably gonna break down and kick out a lot of heat, as well as be expensive to run efficiency wise. Another alternative is an Antec EarthWatts 380W for $57ea. I also have 3-4 power supplies just lying around collecting dust, so I don't need them for the initial startup. I Also have a truckload of cables and some 16 port switches that WORK(!) which I fished out a dumpster here at the U of Waterloo.

One of these computers would serve as a server with an old 80GB IDE WD Hard Drive I've got kicking around.

Physical Arrangement:
I'm thinking of going with the "Peg Board + Cable Tie" solution, but I may browse home depot for the shelving strips which you can place adjustable metal shelving on. (ala http://www.talix.com/Folding/Rack_DownView_25.jpg)

I've got a few questions/issues to work out.

1) Which Processor to use. I'm aware that the D940s or better are dual cores and are thus much better performance/watt for folding, so I consider them a good bet. Are the E2140s serviceable dual core procs for folding? For $5 more they seem to be a steal. But then they are 3x more money than the Celery chips. Hmm.

2) Overclocking - wont be able to overclock much with that motherboard. Is there another cheapy 775 motherboard I should be looking at?

3) Is the Linux SMP FAH core fully stable, etc? Even the windows graphical clients seem to be unstable over the long term. Should I be going with single-core procs to avoid having to baby sit?

4) How much money per month will my electical bill increase with 10 stripped down client computers running 24/7 full load? (2-3 per power supply vs. 1 per powersupply?) - these systems will have no monitors, no hard drives, hardly any ram, etc. I will be doing the bootup via LAN setup?

5) How much heat will 10 clients kick out? Should I be worried at all about ventilation? They are going to go in a basement / unfinished cement room. I think they should be okay.

6) I could go with the Compact Flash route for hard drives, and make them independent of needing a server computer to boot off-of. Would this be faster/more stable?
(See: http://www.pcengines.ch/cflash.htm)

-I can get Patriot 1GB Compact Flash 50x speed for $19.99.


Any comments, suggestions, random helpful thoughts, criticisms would be helpful.
 
1. E2140 or 4300 - they are MUCH better choice
2. dont know
3.I have experience only with windows version and I didnt have any problem (running 24/7)
4 depends on your local KWh price and effeciency of your PSU (good ones have more than 80% crappy ones less than 60% - expect around 100-130W per box(depends on OC and PSU)
5. already answered in 4. 10 rigs is going to produce lot of heat so some ventilation would be necessary.
6. dont know
 
1:- DONT get a single core CPU if you can afford a dual core one.
A single cored CPU running the CPU client is limited to around 2.5 PpHpG max.
Where as the dual core CPU running the SMP client is around the 10 PpHpG.
Why get a 300 PpD box when you can get a 1,200 PpD one.

2:- The Pentium D's suck at SMP folding.If I remember right you may be lucky to make some of the deadlines with a non overclocked one.

3:- The SMP client works best with a big L2 cache.
Not sure of the delta but I think a 4M cache will half the frame time of a 1M cache.

Go to fahinfo.org and you can search the database and see the best CPU for folding useing the SMP client.

4:- Power useage & heat.
I recon on around 150 watts per blade or around 1.5 Kw for 10.
As my blades use 2 gigs of memory & a 80 Gig hard drive you may drop a couple of hundred watts off the total.

5:- Stability.
If you loose the network then all SMP clients on it shut down and will need to be rebooted.
If you shut them down then it can be 50-50 if they restart correctly or you get an early end.
I also get the very odd early end just running normaly.
I've found that FahSpy is the best monitoring program for the SMP client.

Luck ............. :D
 
Tigerbiten said:
3:- The SMP client works best with a big L2 cache.
Not sure of the delta but I think a 4M cache will half the frame time of a 1M cache.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if you could swing E6320s you'd fold certain work units almost twice as fast. Go with the E4300s at minimum.

Also, DO NOT GO SINGLE CHANNEL. The difference between dual and single channel is huge. See my results here with a 2MB E4300 and work unit 2610:

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1031072437&postcount=6

 
Yikes...I should email my distribs and see if they'll sell me a bucket of 256MB DDR2 dimms.
 
Tigerbiten said:
2:- The Pentium D's suck at SMP folding.If I remember right you may be lucky to make some of the deadlines with a non overclocked one.
Click to expand...

My PD 930 at 3.5 outperforms my X23800+ at 2.4. I've found the pentium d is better at smp then the x2 because of the much larger cache.
 
So - Does anyone have any numbers on how cache size affects folding?

E6320 1.86 CORE 2 DUO 4M $184
E6420 2.13 CORE 2 DUO 4M $210

Are further options
 
The 4 meg Core 2 Duos are what you want (ie your 6320, 6420, 6600, ect.), they're going to give you the best points per day per ghz. Check the SMP frame times thread for hard numbers.
 
blah but then they are SOOO expensive; that jacks the price from ~$100 to $280 per box. I suppose I could just do 1 or 2 boxes, initially...
 
They're cheaper to run and produce more then 3-5 single client boxes though
 
It's not real popular right now to suggest using AMD dual-core processors, but with the X2 3600 as cheap as it is, you might consider it. They're not as fast as the C2D's, but they're a heck of a lot cheaper, so it may balance out. You can get an X2 3600 with a motherboard combo for less than $100 USD at newegg, which could cut down your costs significantly. I don't know what your sources will charge you for something similar.

You'll want to PM unhappy_mage about his fold-server package he's put together, as it's exactly what you're looking for for a network boot.

If you have lower-power-eating systems (like those based on C2D or newer X2's), you will have no problem hooking two machines up to one PSU. It may be a bit tricky to find the ATX splitter, but they're out there. That means just CPU, MB, RAM, and a shared PSU for each boxen.

When you do your calculations of cost, make sure you factor in the ongoing expense of power. You don't want to save $20 on a machine up front and then end up paying $5/month more for power on that same machine. OSUguy's Folding Farm Spreadsheet (is he still updating that?) has estimated costs over two years.
 
-PC CHIPS A13G AM2 Geforce 6100
DDR2, 2000MT, RAID MATX, A+V+L+SATA

-AMD Sempron 3000 Retail Box
-Patriot 512MB DDR2 667

$106 CAD (exactly $100 USD, lol)

yech, lol sempron I just noticed. forget it.
 
Honestly, do not go lower then a dual core chip that can run the SMP client if you're really serious about building a farm today (this does not apply to existing hardware, if you have the hardware, put it to use :) ). You're better off with 2 E4300s boxes then 10 single core AMD 64s in the PPD catagory and you absolutely clean up when it comes to points per watt.
 
ND40oz said:
Honestly, do not go lower then a dual core chip that can run the SMP client if you're really serious about building a farm today (this does not apply to existing hardware, if you have the hardware, put it to use :) ). You're better off with 2 E4300s boxes then 10 single core AMD 64s in the PPD catagory and you absolutely clean up when it comes to points per watt.
Click to expand...

Yes. for dedicated farm boxes, the E4300 has the best bang for the buck, especially if you match it with a decent motherboard with overclocking possibilities. Mine can fight among the E6600 camp in terms of PPD.

Just look at my PPD... My whole farm include 95% dual-core computers and the remaining 5% is the odd single-cores machines.

 
Which processor has the most bang:buck, do you think?

Q6600 2.4 8M 1066 FSB $587
E6320 1.86 CORE 2 DUO 4M $182
E4300 1.80 CORE 2 DUO 2M (800 FSB) $125

Those are CAD wholesale prices, I'd only have to pay 6% GST tax on them.

Should I try to get 2x256MB of DDR2 for the boxen?

---
Edit:

Should I be looking at after market cooling options?
overclockable motherboards?

The prices for these boxes are rising rapidly :(
 
telim said:
Which processor has the most bang:buck, do you think?

Q6600 2.4 8M 1066 FSB $587
E6320 1.86 CORE 2 DUO 4M $182
E4300 1.80 CORE 2 DUO 2M (800 FSB) $125

Those are CAD wholesale prices, I'd only have to pay 6% GST tax on them.

Should I try to get 2x256MB of DDR2 for the boxen?

---
Edit:

Should I be looking at after market cooling options?
overclockable motherboards?

The prices for these boxes are rising rapidly :(
Click to expand...


E6320 would be the best choice for you :) 2nd best choice would be the E4300 which lose a few mins per frame over the 4 Mb cpu. The Q6600 is a bit too expensive right now but when it get to 266$ USD (~280$ CAD), this will become your best bang for the buck, almost double the speed of the E4300.
 
Mohonri said:
OSUguy's Folding Farm Spreadsheet (is he still updating that?) has estimated costs over two years.
Click to expand...


The intent is to keep it updated... I've been busy with work and some house issues (power issues specifically)... I'm hoping to get everything sorted out in the next couple weeks... I need to do some serious updating to the spreadsheet.... but I guess it still gives everyone a ballpark figure as it is right now......



Keep on Folding!! For the [H]orde!!

 
ND40oz said:
My PD 930 at 3.5 outperforms my X23800+ at 2.4. I've found the pentium d is better at smp then the x2 because of the much larger cache.
Click to expand...

I can attest to the fact that the Athlon X2s suck at the SMP client. I currently have a 4800+ running, it's frame times are generally about half as fast as my C2D. I have at least one more, possibly two Opterons ready to come online(165 and 170). I'm thinking I'll use the lower clocking chip to feed my X1900XTX and run an instance of the standard console. The other will run the Linux SMP client.

Anyways, keep this thread updated with your farming progress. I've been interested in building a dedicated Folding@home farm for quite some time now, I've just been unable to figure out a setup that's elegant and also robust. I don't want to have to fiddle with it all the time. I just want to stick it in my garage and run it as much as possible.
 
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