GameStop Exploiting Devs And Consumers

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Look, we all know GameStop screws people by buying used games for $5 and selling them for $49.99. That said, this guy is whacked out of his melon if he thinks he deserves a cut of used game sales. How many times does he want to be paid for the same game?

"I don't think we should stop used games, but we should do something about getting part of the revenue back from GameStop and places like that. That's not penalizing the consumers; they'll still get what they want. But I don't know who's going to address it."
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Drop the prices on the games and more people will buy them new. It's not rocket science to figure this shit out.
 
I completely disagree with this. When movies are shown on cable, or rented out from RedBox or watched on Netflix, do you think that those companies reap all the profits and nothing goes back to the content owner? Because you're whacked out of your melon if you think that's the case. Selling a game used for $5 less than new and getting that as pure profit which the dev never sees is the reason that so many game companies cut jobs all the time. I'm not saying that the entire cost should go back to the dev, but even a portion of those used game sales going back (which is a legitimate expectation) would do wonders for the industry.

And if you think that lowering prices will cause people to buy new, you're similarly crazy. The cost isn't the concept; the fact that it can be had for less, regardless of the original price, is what will drive sales.
 
Triple B said:
I completely disagree with this. When movies are shown on cable, or rented out from RedBox or watched on Netflix, do you think that those companies reap all the profits and nothing goes back to the content owner? Because you're whacked out of your melon if you think that's the case. Selling a game used for $5 less than new and getting that as pure profit which the dev never sees is the reason that so many game companies cut jobs all the time. I'm not saying that the entire cost should go back to the dev, but even a portion of those used game sales going back (which is a legitimate expectation) would do wonders for the industry.

And if you think that lowering prices will cause people to buy new, you're similarly crazy. The cost isn't the concept; the fact that it can be had for less, regardless of the original price, is what will drive sales.
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He was talking about selling games, not renting. You rent a movie, the content owner gets a cut. You sell a used movie, the content provider gets nothing.
 
the-one1 said:
He was talking about selling games, not renting. You rent a movie, the content owner gets a cut. You sell a used movie, the content provider gets nothing.
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This is not true because the content provider was paid for the initial purchase of the licensed product. Plus people are known to sell a movie or game, only to re-buy it again later.
 
And yet automobile manufacturers don't cry bloody mary when I buy my used car.
Shouldn't THEY also get a cut from that second sale!?!?! /s

I don't see why software should be different. You were compensated for the retail copy that was sold. It was then sold a second time, maybe *scoff* even a THIRD TIME. You are not entitled to those.

Deal with it.
 
Semantics. If you buy a game for $60, take it home and beat it in a couple days, then trade it back in, you've essentially rented it.

You know who sells movies? College kids who need to pay rent. People who have a DVD collection that they don't need any more because they upgraded to Blu Ray. It's not a thriving industry. And you can't just go spend 8% less to see a brand new movie while it's in the theater somewhere else like you can with a brand new game within a week, if not a day, of it launching.
 
There is a much easier solution ... stop selling physical media if that is your concern ... sell it on Steam/GOG/Amazon if you are PC or one of the console download services if you are console ... without physical media there is no resale so no need to try and manage the royalties for resale ;)
 
kbrickley said:
There is a much easier solution ... stop selling physical media if that is your concern ... sell it on Steam/GOG/Amazon if you are PC or one of the console download services if you are console ... without physical media there is no resale so no need to try and manage the royalties for resale ;)
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I basically agree with this in theory. I'm one of those insane people who was 100% behind Microsoft's original plan with the Xbox One and I am livid that they rolled it back. I would much rather have the option of playing my game collection without having to swap discs than to have the option of selling it back for pennies on the dollar to GameStop. Yes, I know there are other ways of selling your games online, but I actually do care about the money getting into the hands of the devs.
 
Yes, continue being screwed by GameStop, don't support the devs and watch the flawed system move along in its broken state. Sit back, relax and get your popcorn while you "deal with it." Brilliant solution. Meanwhile, other people will be trying to make a change in how things work. Which you, in turn, can deal with.
 
Sorry, I just think this is nuts. What other industries get cuts of used sales? Cars? Homes? Movies? Books? Misc items in pawn shops? Should Dell get a cut when you resell your used computer?

You drink a Coke, then pee and flush. That liquid is recycled at your local water treatment plant and served back up as water that you are charged for on your water bill. Should Coke get a cut of that?

Allan
 
Triple B said:
I completely disagree with this. When movies are r rented out from RedBox or watched on Netflix, do you think that those companies reap all the profits and nothing goes back to the content owner?
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the-one1 said:
You rent a movie, the content owner gets a cut.
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Wrong on both counts. Netflix purchases movies on a wholesale market that the average consumer doesn't have access to.

It's why you see discs' with RENTAL silkscreened on them. The only time studio makes money is on the initial purchase. Netflix and Redbox can rent it out however many times they want with out paying another dime.
 
Triple B said:
Semantics. If you buy a game for $60, take it home and beat it in a couple days, then trade it back in, you've essentially rented it.
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What if you wait a year? Does that still apply. The truth is at this point, Devs don't really care. What they care about is controlling the price of new vs used games within those first six to twelve months of a new release.

And you can't just go spend 8% less to see a brand new movie while it's in the theater somewhere else like you can with a brand new game within a week, if not a day, of it launching.
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Actually you can in a lot of places, as a former movie theater manager I have first hand experience with it. In fact you could save more then 50% off a ticket price depending on what time and day you chose to see it. For example we offered first showing of the day during the week for 60% off normal ticket price on all movies.
 
I'd say Gamestop is exploiting consumers. The markup on the used games is WAY too high if they're only $5 less than the new games. I wouldn't shop there if someone paid me. I advise others to stop buying there and find another used game shop that doesn't have such high markup.

However, I don't consider them exploiting the devs. The devs get their money from the new game sales, just like car makers. Do GM or BMW demand a cut of the used car market? Of course not. Yet, there is still a lot more engineering going into a new car than video games. The used car market has been running strong for nearly a century. The used video game market should too.
 
Are game developers really a bunch of entitled whiners?

Gamestop is a consumer problem, not a developer problem. As long as consumers are willing to sell their used games for $5 and buy used for (NEW-$5), Gamestop will pay $5 for used games and sell them for (NEW-$5). If you don't like it, don't sell your used games to Gamestop, and don't buy used games from them.

The First Sale Doctrine applies to cars, boats, books, paintings, furniture, movies, houses, stereos, sculptures, clothes, board games, appliances, phones, application software, and operating systems. IT APPLIES TO COMPUTER AND CONSOLE GAMES. Quit crying about consumers and the market doing what consumers and the market do with any category of goods.

"But I don't sell my game; I sell a license to play my game!" OK, then, when the consumer is done using their license to play your game, they transfer the license to another party. Just like I can sell my old computer with MS Windows and transfer the license to use that copy of Windows. With console games, the ability to play is tied to the physical disc, so the transfer of the license and the transfer of the disc go hand in hand.

Developers, you have no right or authority to regulate the used market for your products. Your customers are not your enemy. Gamestop is not your enemy. Publishers are.
 
I don't get why he was mad. So Gamestop tried to sell him a used game. The dev got money the first time it was sold. On top of that brand new games maybe have $1 of profit for the store in them so the other $59 went to the creation of the game, shipping, etc. He got his money the first time around, why double dip?
 
I would never buy a brand new game with the expectation of being able to resell it for the majority of my purchase price a week later. If a game doesn't have more than a week's worth of replay time, I wouldn't buy it in the first place. Once I sell a game, they've usually been re-released in the $19.99 "greatest hits" collection and is available for $10 in the used pile, and getting $2-3 for it isn't such a bad deal.
 
The guy is an idiot and has no concept of the used market. Probably buys absolutely everything new, because he's not hurting at all.
 
Wait a week, buy the game used off craigslist, play the game for a week, sell the game for 80-100% of what you purchased it for.
 
dgingeri said:
Do GM or BMW demand a cut of the used car market? Of course not. Yet, there is still a lot more engineering going into a new car than video games.
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I'm not sure that's true. Software, especially games, can be insanely complicated. One thing I can say though: people working on cars need to care a lot more about how things are built because if they fuck up, somebody could die.
 
Aluisious said:
Saving a few bucks is not worth dealing with people from Craigslist.
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You ain't lying. Half of them can't take a piss without wetting themselves. I research what I am selling before I post it. Put it at a price that should have people beating down the door only to have them all show up and offer half of what I am asking.

When I moved to my house in 2009 I need lawn and other maintenance equipment. Get on Craigslist and find a person downsizing to a condo from a house.

Propelled Lawnmower
Gas Trimmer / Edger
Gas leaf blower
14" electric chainsaw
Electric Hedge Trimmer
Telescopic Fiskar lopping / saw pruner
24' extension ladder
16' extension ladder
150' of hoses and two reels
Wheelbarrow
Gas cans

Has all the user manuals, extra spark plugs, air filters.

$350 and he delivered.

He said I was the seventh person to come by and the only one not try and offer him $200 or break everything up.

Some people when presented with a gift horse don't know when to get on the thing and simply ride away. The mower brand new would have run $350 alone.
 
jfreund said:
"But I don't sell my game; I sell a license to play my game!" OK, then, when the consumer is done using their license to play your game, they transfer the license to another party. Just like I can sell my old computer with MS Windows and transfer the license to use that copy of Windows. With console games, the ability to play is tied to the physical disc, so the transfer of the license and the transfer of the disc go hand in hand.
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The US District court would like to disagree with your rant. As well as the federal courts (Vernor v. Autodesk, Inc. & Adobe Systems v Hoops Enterprise LLC )

In the end a lot of it depends on the Licensing Agreement that the EULA spells out. Some have specifically inserted lines such as "You are licensing this product" and they state that you cannot transfer that license etc. (such as this EULA: http://www.steampowered.com/eula_activision/ or this Black Ops EULA: http://store.activision.com/store/atvi/en_US/Content/pbPage.eula_black_ops )
 
I have sold a few games on Ebay for some pretty big profits,

Brigandine for the PS1 for example I sold for 70.00$. If you are willing to take some time then I recommend you sell them online to people rather than Gamestop.
 
The Gonz said:
And yet automobile manufacturers don't cry bloody mary when I buy my used car.
Shouldn't THEY also get a cut from that second sale!?!?! /s

I don't see why software should be different. You were compensated for the retail copy that was sold. It was then sold a second time, maybe *scoff* even a THIRD TIME. You are not entitled to those.

Deal with it.
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Ding ding ding.
 
Krenum said:
This guy breaks it down for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tcrkKGKIAg
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In the first part of his video he's so mistaken it's sad. He talks about Game Stop's profit of $79 like they don't have rent, insurance, utility, salary to pay.

I wouldn't deal with GameStop for the same reason I don't trade in a vehicle vs private sale. It should be obvious to anyone with a decent IQ which way nets you more $$. Mr Obvious there.
 
The Gonz said:
And yet automobile manufacturers don't cry bloody mary when I buy my used car.
Shouldn't THEY also get a cut from that second sale!?!?! /s

I don't see why software should be different. You were compensated for the retail copy that was sold. It was then sold a second time, maybe *scoff* even a THIRD TIME. You are not entitled to those.

Deal with it.
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It's the same scenario with paying sales tax on a used car.
Why should the state get another cut for a "use" tax when the first owner paid the full sales tax, therefore the "full" use tax.

But, I'd much rather see more money going to the developers than Gamestop. Frankly, I don't care about used game restrictions for consoles. I'm a PC gamer and PC games, as you know, have zero resale value.
 
Aluisious said:
The guy is an idiot and has no concept of the used market. Probably buys absolutely everything new, because he's not hurting at all.
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Agreed.

I've read the responses to the rant and they are pretty bad too. I'm sure these guys like to think they are highly intelligent, but their posts show a lack of any deep thought and understanding. One post over there is good though, basically saying that if the used market dies, their whole market dies.
 
The fundamental flaw in that statement lies in "We can design a shitty enough game where people don't mind selling it, and they haven't heard enough good things to part with another 5 bucks for a fresh copy. So instead of developing something out of this world, now we can rely on second hand sales kickbacks if we release a mediocre title." Not to say that's a pure constant, but the other side of that mentality is "Call of Doody 17 : new dubstep, new gun attachments, 3 maps on release for 70 bucks, full game available after 3 separate 25 dollar "map pack" upgrades." Or "Madden five hundred and ninety eight : Look at how you can now see the filament in the lights on their helmets, and the drunk chick in the crowd"

Don't get me wrong, this dev. knows how to hit your passions because before all the wonderful half price, discount, pay what you want (EFFF GAMESTOP) outlets there are to finally put your dingle back in Gamestop's dongle for a change we ALL hated Gamestop. "What do you mean you'll give me a piece of lint, a dollar, and a half chewed piece of Juicy Fruit or 4 bucks store credit? I literally JUST unpackaged this 70 dollar game right here in front of your face like 3 seconds ago!? Bitch, I couldn't even tell you what the inside of a Gamestop looks like anymore!

Where is the challenge to developers to design something that is so good, people NEED to buy it and NEED to play it continually. The games that define a generation because "yea I bought that video game system JUST to play that title." Second hand sales should only be the concern of piss poor game developers on the dev's end, like two second place finishers fighting over who gets the blue ribbon, or the silver ribbon and complaining because the blue ribbon gets a free soda and hot dog before they leave the county fair.

I BOUGHT an Xbox360 because of Halo2. I didn't need to worry about the 5 bucks off the game, that title OWNED ME. I don't hear Bungie devs pissing and moaning about second hand sales, or even more pathetically third hand sales. They're busy designing the next thing that you are going to NEED to have so badly and have HEARD so much about that the FIRST HAND sales can't be found on shelves.

Maybe Goo Mitsubishi-orAmIindian-apu should be just saying what he really means "I'm probably going to make mediocre games, and I'm most likely going to rely on second hand, and third hand sales kickbacks."
 
The Gonz said:
And yet automobile manufacturers don't cry bloody mary when I buy my used car.
Shouldn't THEY also get a cut from that second sale!?!?! /s

I don't see why software should be different. You were compensated for the retail copy that was sold. It was then sold a second time, maybe *scoff* even a THIRD TIME. You are not entitled to those.

Deal with it.
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Actually, depending on the used car dealership and various other things (certification, etc), sometimes the manufacturer does get additional revenue from the used car sale. Plus an argument is that they get additional revenue from OEM part replacements etc.
 
J Macker said:
It's the same scenario with paying sales tax on a used car.
Why should the state get another cut for a "use" tax when the first owner paid the full sales tax, therefore the "full" use tax.
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Except sales tax is transactional ... not based on the item ... unless they exempt the transaction (yard sales, etc) you are paying based on your exchange of funds, not as a one time fee on the item ;)
 
It's just like if you made a painting or something. You get one sale. That's it. It's going to be curculating for a long time and you are not entitled to those transactions. Make some new shit and sell some more shit and shut the fuck up... Easy as that.
 
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