Gateway FHD2400

Racasdorph said:
well, i got this LCD for christmas... man what a beauty, no stuck/dead pixels... but there was what i would call, severe Backlight Bleed, very very noticble...

I returned to Circuit City for a new one, they were sold out, so they are shipping me a new one :) I can deal with a small amount of blacklight bleed, Im crossing my fingures because other than backlight bleed, this LCD rocks!
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It's a fantastic LCD but a fair number of owners are reporting of progressive backlight bleed, which is something I never thought would occur until I read about this monitor. If you can accept that it's a great buy, but as always, YMMV.
 
i use his LCD wit my xbox 360 n my ps3.. when i watch bluray movies in 1080p the colorsz seem a lil off n too bright.. wat r the best settings u guys r using wit ps3?? no pc so no eztune...
 
APOLLO said:
It's a fantastic LCD but a fair number of owners are reporting of progressive backlight bleed, which is something I never thought would occur until I read about this monitor. If you can accept that it's a great buy, but as always, YMMV.
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Heh im starting to wonder if people are just paranoid and suddenly starting to notice it more. Remember this is a LARGE monoitor, staring straight ahead your nose should be about 20-25% from the top of the screen (not screen case). Bleeding will be alot more noticeable if your slouching and not at the right level with your TN panel. Being a large monitor you may need to lower it compared to a smaller monitor.
 
Inu said:
Heh im starting to wonder if people are just paranoid and suddenly starting to notice it more. Remember this is a LARGE monoitor, staring straight ahead your nose should be about 20-25% from the top of the screen (not screen case). Bleeding will be alot more noticeable if your slouching and not at the right level with your TN panel. Being a large monitor you may need to lower it compared to a smaller monitor.
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for a $600 investment, you should NOT have to deal with such crap quality.
 
gar818 said:
for a $600 investment, you should have to deal with such crap quality.
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Why should you have to deal with poor quality just because something is less expensive? 600 dollars is still 600 dollars, and you should be able to buy the monitor and expect decent quality.
 
OK, Why again is my nose so high up on the screen? That would make my eye level the top of the screen. with a 24in screen I'm sitting pretty high up now.
 
BMWlover said:
Why should you have to deal with poor quality just because something is less expensive? 600 dollars is still 600 dollars, and you should be able to buy the monitor and expect decent quality.
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im sorry i mean you should NOT have to deal with it, $600 is not little money.
 
Well, the backlight bleed is quite noticable now, even without a darkened room. I'm going to stick with it for a while though, at least until the end of this quarter. I have the feeling that if I went to try and exchange it, they'd be out of stock anyway... I'll give it some time for the manufacturing quality to mature a little more, and try my luck then. As I understand it from the warranty, I should be able to exchange it at any time during the warranty period (citing "excessive backlight bleed" as the problem). Hopefully by that time we'll start to see some of the Nov and Dec manufactured models and be able to compare their backlight bleed to the current models. Hence why I'll still be keeping up with this thread :)

Here's a pic of the current bleeding for reference. It may not be entirely accurate as I don't have the best type of camera for this and I didn't use a completely black screen, but it should be enough.

 
I agree with your strategy -- If my bleed becomes bad, I will probably wait until the end of my first year to exchange it. However, I'd like to compare mine to others a little more accurately, and your pic seems a bit overexposed. Any chance you can get a picture that shows the detail in the two menu button icons to the right? That would help me compare your bleed more accurately to what I have, which so far has been pretty tame...
 
The problem is that I need to use slow shutter for much of anything to show up. Taking them in a brightened room doesn't help either. I took a few more shots from a stable surface (last one was handheld) at varying shutter speeds. Still none that you can make out the details of the buttons, but I hope they help.

1/4 second shutter


1/2 second shutter


1 second shutter
 
well the 1st one doesnt seem so bad, i just returned mine, it was realllly bad! im crossing my fingures for something better
 
The first one I had had some backlight bleed on the top and bottom which is not good for me since I play a lot of PS3 games on it which will have the black bars on the top and bottom. It got progressively worse at the end of the the two week period. It wasn't bad but to the point where I noticed it on darker scenes. So I exchanged for another one and this one came with BLB on the left and right but very small which I can deal with. Its been a week and the BLB hasn't grown so I'm hoping it'll stay that way. As long as it doesn't bleed to the point where it washes out the colors I'll be happy. If not, I'll probably just hang on to it til the end of the first year and exchange it and hope that the tech has matured. I'll have a digital camera within the next two weeks (sold my 2485w to a friend) so I'll have pics up then.
 
Omnigamer said:
The problem is that I need to use slow shutter for much of anything to show up. Taking them in a brightened room doesn't help either. I took a few more shots from a stable surface (last one was handheld) at varying shutter speeds. Still none that you can make out the details of the buttons, but I hope they help.

1/4 second shutter


1/2 second shutter


1 second shutter
Click to expand...


Obviously they don't all look like this to your eyes -- which one 'best' represents what you see?
 
Omnigamer said:
The half-second speed is what's closest to visible when looking at it head-on.
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That's quite a lot, all right. If yours is like the second pic, then it's like a torch compared to mine.

Mine is maybe a quarter to a third of the first pic, which I might expect with TN technology, but which has still proven to be slightly distracting at times. A slight glow. My brightness is at 5 on my two computer inputs, and 15 on HDMI. However, when I test the glow, as I just did, I go to an unused input. That input is probably still at the factory default brightness setting, so it may not matter what the brightness is set to.

Not sure yet whether it gets brighter on occasion, or whether it's just what I'm viewing at the time (or what), but I occasionally feel it may be slightly brighter at times. Still don't have anything solid to report there.

The times I notice it is rare, as I do almost everything from my full-resolution DVI computer, and the level I have doesn't affect bright screens at all. I've noticed it only when viewing bordered items, dark DVDs, or dark photographs at full-screen, which you might expect. Viewing the screen from below makes it worse, also as you might expect with a TN, so I try to avoid that. Mine is bright in all the same areas as yours, just much less so.

If yours is that bright, you will need to replace it. However, I think your strategy of waiting should be sound, if you can stand it in the meantime.
 
well, is there a 24inch lcd out there that has all of the features that FHD2400 has, but with little to no blacklight bleed? im waiting on my replacement...
 
From the research I've done, no. There are some that come close, minus a few inputs or pivot or etc, but none that have all of the same features. Which is one of the reasons why I'm sticking with it.
 
The Samsung 245T (NOT 'BW') for about $650 was the closest I ran across, but gaming was a priority to me, and it's a VA panel. VA tech is good for backlight bleed, but has been known for input lag. I have personally tested my Samsung 244T at work (another VA made by Samsung), and it has terrible lag. So, you have to go back to what's important to you -- really fast gaming, or the chance of backlight bleed.

I'm very happy with my Gateway, and was lucky out of the box with no bad pixels, or excessive backlight bleed. I even love the default color settings that came with it. It adapts to my myriad of devices well. So far, so good!
 
I did some lag tests today over some of the lower resolutions. I basically used the Guitar Hero 3 lag calibration a number of times and found a rough average of the offset for different resolutions. It's not going to be completely accurate, but it should at least be somewhere in the ballpark of its actual lag. I play a lot of fighting games and "bullet hell" shoot'em ups, so the difference of a frame or two can mean a big difference in gameplay.

*All tests were done with component cables*

480p WS
Avg: 25 ms
Min: 14 ms
Max: 31 ms

480i WS
Avg: 32 ms
Min: 22 ms
Max: 38 ms

480i non-WS
Avg: 31 ms
Min: 20 ms
Max: 46 ms

First-hand impressions on my fighting game of choice:

480p: The lag is noticable, but overall isn't too bad. Definitely takes a bit of getting used to, but beyond that it doesn't affect gameplay too much. An off-hand estimate is about 2 frames worth of lag (at 60 fps), which agrees with the numbers above.

480i: In truth, it actually felt closer to normal than the 480p trial. I don't know if that's because I tried it second and had already adjusted a bit to the lag, or if it does process it a little better. Still a small bit of delayed reactions, but I'd have to say quicker than the 480p trial.

I do have the means to test the overall input lag of the monitor as compared to a typical CRT, but I currently don't have the workspace to do so. Hopefully I'll get the chance to move stuff around and give it a try, but there's no gaurantee.
 
Not sure I fully understand how the software gets the readings for you -- normally, you use a mirrored CRT and a camera to measure input lag. How exactly does yours work? You weren't measuring your finger's response time, were you?
 
Guitar Hero 3 (and 2 etc...) feature a lag calibration test to configure the game for proper play on HDTVs. You're supposed to strum as you see a series of targets cross over a point on the screen. Based on when you strum and where the game currently believes the target is, it calibrates an offset appropriate for your currently used display. Again, I know it's not the most accurate way to test things, but it should at least be in the general range of the actual number. Also, this is just through the component input with low resolution, so I would expect numbers to be a little different on higher resolution connections, with the best response at its native resolution.

The mirrored CRT method is what I intend to test before long, but I just don't have any room to put the CRT currently. I'll let you know of the results if and when I try it out.
 
Does anyone have this LCD with little to no backlight bleed? If so... could you post a picture? I just returned mine due to the amount of backlight bleed I was seeing...

I thought it was to much, the one I saw in the store at best buy had little to none, so im hoping the one gateway is shipping me will be better!
 
Omnigamer said:
I did some lag tests today over some of the lower resolutions. I basically used the Guitar Hero 3 lag calibration a number of times and found a rough average of the offset for different resolutions. It's not going to be completely accurate, but it should at least be somewhere in the ballpark of its actual lag. I play a lot of fighting games and "bullet hell" shoot'em ups, so the difference of a frame or two can mean a big difference in gameplay.

*All tests were done with component cables*

480p WS
Avg: 25 ms
Min: 14 ms
Max: 31 ms

480i WS
Avg: 32 ms
Min: 22 ms
Max: 38 ms

480i non-WS
Avg: 31 ms
Min: 20 ms
Max: 46 ms

First-hand impressions on my fighting game of choice:

480p: The lag is noticable, but overall isn't too bad. Definitely takes a bit of getting used to, but beyond that it doesn't affect gameplay too much. An off-hand estimate is about 2 frames worth of lag (at 60 fps), which agrees with the numbers above.

480i: In truth, it actually felt closer to normal than the 480p trial. I don't know if that's because I tried it second and had already adjusted a bit to the lag, or if it does process it a little better. Still a small bit of delayed reactions, but I'd have to say quicker than the 480p trial.

I do have the means to test the overall input lag of the monitor as compared to a typical CRT, but I currently don't have the workspace to do so. Hopefully I'll get the chance to move stuff around and give it a try, but there's no gaurantee.
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Those are really bad numbers. I thought TN panels were generally faster than VAs? The Anandtech thread suggested that this panel would be < 10ms for input lag, but your testing pretty much throws that out. Sigh. There's no way I'd buy this monitor if it's gonna have >10ms of input lag.
 
Be very careful when you look at any sort of lag comparison tests. The numbers will always be different depending on the type of resolution that it's scaling to. The numbers I show above are just for the 480i and 480p resolution, over the component connection. Since the monitor's native resolution is 1920x1200, that's about the worst scaling it will ever have to do, thus why it will have such lag. When I do get around to testing the input lag at native resolution, you can bet that the numbers will be significantly lower (probably around that 10 ms range you're looking for). That was exactly why I specified that the timings shown were only for 480i and 480p.
 
Omnigamer said:
Be very careful when you look at any sort of lag comparison tests. The numbers will always be different depending on the type of resolution that it's scaling to. The numbers I show above are just for the 480i and 480p resolution, over the component connection. Since the monitor's native resolution is 1920x1200, that's about the worst downscaling it will ever have to do, thus why it will have such lag. When I do get around to testing the input lag at native resolution, you can bet that the numbers will be significantly lower (probably around that 10 ms range you're looking for). That was exactly why I specified that the timings shown were only for 480i and 480p.
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Downscaling does take time, and isn't there for native resolution games, but I think there is more going on here. I know they present this is a monitor input lag test, but I think this test comes closer to measuring eye-to-hand reflex time than it does input lag. Those are pretty good numbers for reflex time, so I suspect it's a major percentage of the time shown.

I think we need to hold out for a standard test before advertising values like these... Those times are reasonably bad, and may not be representative.
 
Racasdorph said:
Does anyone have this LCD with little to no backlight bleed? If so... could you post a picture? I just returned mine due to the amount of backlight bleed I was seeing...

I thought it was to much, the one I saw in the store at best buy had little to none, so im hoping the one gateway is shipping me will be better!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure backlight bleed can be accurately represented in a photograph. My resulting picture looks different in different viewers, and if I move my head, the viewing angle of the screen can change how it looks. I judged which picture was best with my eyes at about the same height as the top of my screen, and about 2-1/2 feet away. However, even if you duplicate that on your side, the characteristics of your viewer and display will come into play. So a tough shot.

First I tried different shutter speeds in a dark room at f2.8. When viewing the resulting photographs at full screen (all black border) 1/2 second turned out to be slightly too long, and 1/4 second slightly too short. I also had a perception problem in that it showed the top of the screen to be dark, when to me there was as much glow there as everywhere else. I decided angle matters, and hiked the camera up to my viewing height & distance. I had to zoom in slightly.

I ended up at 1/2 second stopped down to f3.7. Two out of 3 viewers show the resulting picture as being slightly too bright, but all 3 viewers agree the next stop is too dark. They also all agree that the picture I selected is not as even and smooth as the actual glow. So, although it will probably appear brighter and patchier than what I see, this is close enough.

My monitor is almost 2 months old, and has been in 6-18 hour/day operation since I got it. If there was any backlight bleed creep, it has been very low.

Save the picture and view it at full screen (all black border) for best results. Then you can compare your bleed to mine (if your bleed isn't too bad!)

As I've said, I rarely notice this level of bleed because my screen is fully lit most of the time. It is noticeable during dark screens, however.

 
Hello everyone. I am a new poster here but not a new fan. I have come here for advice on many items before and have always come away more informed then when i arrived.

I purchased the Gateway FHD2400 on 12/15 and opened it on Xmas day. Now upon first impressions the monitor looks like a million bucks. Upon further review my happiness turned to not so happy. The color is vibrant and that i like. The backlight bleed has grown a little since i started using it and i am afraid of where it will end up.

I must say that even though this is a TN panel and the viewing angles are not supposed to be good. This one seems particularly bad. My eyes sit center of the monitor heighth wise and the top of the screen is darker. If i raise a fraction it lightens up. Now this is not a deal breaker in itself but it adds to the downside of the monitor. The side views are really bad too. I have it sitting side by side with last years Gateway (24 inch) and yes this new one outshines last years in color and picture quality but last years does not make me have to use a headbrace for a uniform picture.

The glossy screen is another bad thing imo. Sure it helps with picture quality somewhat and the room i use it in is not bright but the reflections are still there. For some i am sure this is not an issue but i have to say i prefer the non reflective screens. That is just my personal preference. This unit has no dead pixels that i can spot.

The connectivity on this thing is wonderful but honestly in my situation i will never use the HDMI for anything. I have PS3 and HD cable but that is reserved for my TV and will never hit my puter screen.

I looked at the Dell 2407WFP-HC and ordered one this morning. It costs a few more bucks but i went and looked at one yesterday at a local Dell kiosk and liked what i saw. Nice colors, bright and a non-glossy screen. I am not a hardcore gamer so to speak. I play alot of WOW and a few other games but mainly WOW takes 99% of my gaming allowance. Again, sure there are better and worse monitors out there and with so many choices. Alot of it boils down to personal preference. With the glossy and non reflective screens. I cant stand the reflections or the backlight bleeding this monitor is starting to exhibit.

$600 is still alot of bread for me and if i am not happy with my selection, then it just doesnt make sense to keep it. Bottom line, if it looks good to you, then its the monitor for you. Thanks guys and ill be watching and reading. :D
 
People keep trying to put their eyes in the center of the screen, but this is not recommended from an ergonomic standpoint, and I don't think the panel manufacturer designed the panel to be viewed that way. Proper ergonomic positioning is for your eyes to be as high as the top of the screen (or slightly higher), adjusting the angle of the monitor to give you the most comfortable view after that. That should eliminate any dramatic color changes. It does on mine.
 
I just returned the first FHD2400 I received for Christmas due to backlight bleed issues. I just connected the new one and so far so good. The backlight bleed problems are gone.

If you find yourself with one with backlight bleed issues - simply return it to the store or contact Gateway for a fast replacement.

Absolutely amazing panel.
 
mine was HORRIBLE.... each side had bleed that went 4 to 5 inches in... it was distracting EVEN when i was surfing the net...

regardless to say... i returned it and my new one is being shipped to me, i should get it by next wensday
 
onegoodsoul said:
I just returned the first FHD2400 I received for Christmas due to backlight bleed issues. I just connected the new one and so far so good. The backlight bleed problems are gone.

If you find yourself with one with backlight bleed issues - simply return it to the store or contact Gateway for a fast replacement.

Absolutely amazing panel.
Click to expand...

Racasdorph said:
mine was HORRIBLE.... each side had bleed that went 4 to 5 inches in... it was distracting EVEN when i was surfing the net...

regardless to say... i returned it and my new one is being shipped to me, i should get it by next wensday
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Seems like a lot of people have returned their initial purchase and received better units. I wonder if this issue only affects the first batch of monitors. I guess making a purchase online is ruled out in the event a return is necessary. So, what does one do if there are no local retailers selling this display??
 
Racasdorph said:
mine was HORRIBLE.... each side had bleed that went 4 to 5 inches in... it was distracting EVEN when i was surfing the net...

regardless to say... i returned it and my new one is being shipped to me, i should get it by next wensday
Click to expand...

Um wow. I guess I'm sticking to the 245bw if I want a 24" TN... then again

onegoodsoul said:
I just returned the first FHD2400 I received for Christmas due to backlight bleed issues. I just connected the new one and so far so good. The backlight bleed problems are gone.

If you find yourself with one with backlight bleed issues - simply return it to the store or contact Gateway for a fast replacement.

Absolutely amazing panel.
Click to expand...

Would you mind giving us an update in a few weeks? Hehe
 
Why is it that every single display Gateway releases inevitably gets mired in a swamp of controversy? Is it that difficult to release a product that has great specs and at the same time maintain some quality control over the production? Seriously. It's getting frustrating with Gateway displays. You're damned if you buy them and envious if you purchase a competitor's product with inferior features. It seems like one can't win with Gateway. :rolleyes:
 
i tested the FHD2400 at bestbuy with a all black background and the backlight bleed was very minimal, yes i know the store was not dark or anything but i could tell...

I think it is possible to get a good panel, as some have received a good screen with little to no backlight bleed.
 
So why is there no official 245bw thread here at Hardforum? I'd love to hear more about that panel, as so many here seem to quote it... Needs some official scrutiny to be an official alternative, I think. Inputs are far less, so not sure it is an alternative, but nonetheless...
 
I have read alot of posts in this thread about backlight bleed getting worse over time.

Would someone please explain the mechanics behind backlight bleed getting worse over time?

Personally, I do not think it is possible. However, I do think that as time goes on folks tend to notice imperfections more and more. So much so that soon it is overwhelming.

(Kind of like having a new girlfriend with a slightly lazy eye) :)

Thanks.
 
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