Going from CRT to IPS LCD... pleasantly surprised

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Elledan

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2010
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Hi everyone :)

For the past few days (since last Thursday) I have been using a Dell U2412M which as you all may know is a LED edge-lit IPS LCD, to replace the Iiyama 20" CRT I was using before. I'm still using the (aging) Iiyama 19" CRT I was using before as part of a dual-monitor setup next to the new LCD.

While doing my research on what monitor to get (the CRT took its sweet time dying, giving me over a year to find out what I needed), I came across this Dell model as it's not very expensive and it should give me a comparable experience compared to a CRT. Two weeks ago the CRT finally died and after ordering from the slowest store ever (6 days to deliver the monitor from in-stock situation, here in the tiny Netherlands), I finally received it.

While I knew that IPS was probably going to be alright, I had heard of plenty of issues, such as ghosting, input lag and IPS glow as well as relatively poor blacks. When I got the screen I didn't even bother looking for any issues as I knew that it would have too much yellow while uncalibrated due to the LED backlight. After calibration with an i1Display 2 and Eye-Match 3 I began to use the monitor in earnest.

I use my computer for graphics work (editing, production, print), video editing (After Effects), as well as programming (various IDEs) and writing documentation, etc. (LibreOffice, Notepad++). I also watch a lot of YouTube videos (full-screen).

To summarize my experience, first the positive points:
- I love widescreen. I am totally happy with being able to position documents and windows even in LibreOffice and such together and see everything. Photoshop is a joy as is After Effects (long time index is long). I'm also glad I got a display with 1200 vertical pixels. 1080 would have been painful.

- So far I have seen no IPS glow, ghosting or input lag issues (haven't played games yet, though).

- DVI versus VGA. I hate those bloody adapters.

- Calibrating IPS versus TN panels. TN panels suck so much to calibrate.

Negative points:
- Getting used to the sharpness. Old CRTs do get fuzzy over time. Mine were both over ten years old.

- I have to watch everything in 720p HD now on YouTube for full-screen or my eyes cry.

- I don't have two (or three) of these monitors yet.

- Wish it was a high-PPI display.


So, in short I love this monitor. Having it as a high-PPI display like Apple's Retina displays would be absolutely wonderful, but that is also due to having the LCD so close to my eyes at this point (50 cm) due to having it next to the CRT which takes up half the depth of the desk (1+ meter).

Going to see what the display market does before I splurge more on new monitors. I'm broke enough now as-is, but at least this semi-unexpected expense made me a happier girl :D
 
this is great info, as i'm trying to get an IPS too from my crt (once i get the money of course :p)
 
I am also using an old CRT monitor, that started acting weird and want to buy a new LCD. The thing is I got used to the wide viewing angles, good gradient levels, black level details (I have no problem distinguishing all of the black bars here - http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php) and semi-glossy coating of the CRT and now have a hard time choosing a LCD panel.
Dell U2412M seemed like a good and not expensive option. Tested one in a computer shop and noticed that the four corners appear to be brighter than the rest of the screen. Have you noticed the same with yours? Tried to lower the brightness a little, which seemed to help a bit, but not as much as I would like. I am not sure if the reason for that is backlight bleed or IPS glow, which should be more evident when the monitor is showing dark picture and seen from an angle. Didn't have the time to fiddle with all the OSD options, though. On an all white screen, I could definitely notice the AG coating - not much of a fan, but prefer it to the glossy panels.
 
alike said:
I am also using an old CRT monitor, that started acting weird and want to buy a new LCD. The thing is I got used to the wide viewing angles, good gradient levels, black level details (I have no problem distinguishing all of the black bars here - http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php) and semi-glossy coating of the CRT and now have a hard time choosing a LCD panel.
Dell U2412M seemed like a good and not expensive option. Tested one in a computer shop and noticed that the four corners appear to be brighter than the rest of the screen. Have you noticed the same with yours? Tried to lower the brightness a little, which seemed to help a bit, but not as much as I would like. I am not sure if the reason for that is backlight bleed or IPS glow, which should be more evident when the monitor is showing dark picture and seen from an angle. Didn't have the time to fiddle with all the OSD options, though. On an all white screen, I could definitely notice the AG coating - not much of a fan, but prefer it to the glossy panels.
Click to expand...

On an all-white screen I can kinda see the AG coating, but even with the CRT and LCD next to each other I'd be hard-pressed to tell any differences between the semi-glossy CRT and U2412M's AG coating. I have a window to my left which does cast some light on it, which the latter monitor seems to handle better, even.

As for the test you linked to, I can easily distinguish the #1 panel without any effort. I did of course calibrate the screen as I mentioned, which reduced the luminance (brightness) from 357 lm to 110 lm, or 75% - 20%. If there's some uneven lighting (which differs per panel), that should at least reduce the visibility.

Viewing angles on an IPS LCD are also excellent. They're not as great as on a CRT, as looking at it from extreme angles does show some darkening of the image, but it's nowhere near as noticeable as with the TN LCDs I have seen. Even in a multi-display setup you shouldn't have any issues with it.
 
seriously considering the panel you just bought, a viewsonic http://www.amazon.com/Viewsonic-VP2365-LED-23-Inch-Monitor-Black/dp/B0053YKE72/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340185098&sr=8-1&keywords=viewsonic+ips&tag=780065172-20
or a catleap.. although i would like a sturdy stand..

and my budget maxes out at sub $300..

all i care about is color, and ghosting in games.. viewing angles, i got used to lcds honestly..
my crt can only basically see the last panels ><

does 24" seem enough? (i currently have a viewsonic g220fb) love the size on it.. but i'd like my widescreen now
 
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Thanks for the reply, Elledan. It was helpful, as there aren't a lot of people left that still use CRTs :) and most users are comparing new LCD screens to old ones (which I don't say is wrong or something, just not really relevant to my case).
I know there's no LCD screen with viewing angles like CRT, but IPS seems close enough. I was tempted by the high contrast and deep blacks of *VA panels, but after seeing Eizo FS2331 in person, the color shift, when moving my head around, ruined the whole experience. So I'm left with IPS or Samsung's PLS technology. Problem is, PLS seems to be found only in more expensive monitors.

Edit: gabzor, the physical size of the Viewsonic doesn't really stand out, compared to your current CRT - http://www.displaywars.com/21-inch-4x3-vs-23-inch-16x9 I think you'll be more happy with a 24" 16:10 - http://www.displaywars.com/21-inch-4x3-vs-24-inch-16x10 or 27" 16:9.
 
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24" matches up well with a 20/21" CRT, which is one of the reasons why I went with that size. Having at least the same vertical resolution (1600x1200 CRT) was another one of my priorities. *VA is indeed unacceptable.

PLS is in theory better, but Samsung so far has shown horrendously bad build quality on their PLS monitors, meaning lots of backlight bleed. Those PLS monitors are also $100 more expensive than the U2412M which makes it even a worse deal. One may consider the U2410 at that point, or the HP ZR2440w, the former using H-IPS instead of the cheaper e-IPS in the U2412M.
 
IPS suck at multimedia i would only use it for office work in a bright room.
I returned 2 S-IPS Monitors because of aggressive AG-Coating and IPS-Glow and contrast is also not better then on a TN-Panel Monitor.
And by the way all TV have VA-Panels, it's only hard to find a good VA-Panel Monitor.
 
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The biggest problem I have with *VA monitors is exactly the small viewing angles - it's not that I am going to look at the monitor from extreme angles, but the colors change even if I move my head slightly. I thought Eizo FS2331 was one of the better *VA panels?!

Can you recommend me a *VA monitor with better vieweing angles (less color shift), good shadow details and reasonably fast response time?

I am also reading the thread about BenQ GW2x50(HM) as it is cheap enough for me (although still cannot be found where I live), but it seems that the 24" model has something wrong going on with it - high contrast only in the center of the screen, really bad viewing angles and somewhat washed out colors (and the LED backlight causing a blue tint to gray tones). I am not saying that all VA panels are like that - they are not, but a lot of them have smaller sRGB coverage than IPS and are usually slower than IPS. I just think that for me the negative points of IPS panels are more acceptable than these of VA panels, even when talking about multimedia. But I will gladly accept a recommendation for a good inexpensive VA monitor. Something comparable to the price of U2412M?

PS: btw, there are Panasonic and LG TVs that use IPS panels
 
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VA vs IPS is going to be personal preference. Saying IPS stinks because of low contrast/AG coating is true to some people, but I wouldn't make a blanket statement for all.

I personally found the coating very bothersome on the 2412, but I see it didn't bother the OP. This is a little strange to me, as I too came from using a CRT, and it was very very easy to see on mine ... plenty of sparkle. But maybe his panel had bit of a lesser coating. Or it just didn't bother him. My preference (at this point) would be VA over IPS, or at least VA over non-glossy IPS. Again, this won't apply to everyone.

And as alike mentioned, there are a number of televisions that use IPS. I actually assumed IPS was more common in TVs nowadays than VA is.
 
Namelessme said:
VA vs IPS is going to be personal preference. Saying IPS stinks because of low contrast/AG coating is true to some people, but I wouldn't make a blanket statement for all.

I personally found the coating very bothersome on the 2412, but I see it didn't bother the OP. This is a little strange to me, as I too came from using a CRT, and it was very very easy to see on mine ... plenty of sparkle. But maybe his panel had bit of a lesser coating. Or it just didn't bother him. My preference (at this point) would be VA over IPS, or at least VA over non-glossy IPS. Again, this won't apply to everyone.

And as alike mentioned, there are a number of televisions that use IPS. I actually assumed IPS was more common in TVs nowadays than VA is.
Click to expand...

IPS is also the number one panel type in mobile devices as far as I'm aware.

My setup as I described is a CRT next to the LCD with varying lighting conditions throughout the day. As the TFTCentral.co.uk review of the U2412M also described it has pretty mild AG coating and I fully agree with that assessment.

Could just be that I am a girl and like sparkles, though :p
 
Everyone seems to react differently to AG coating. I just chalk it up to differences in regard to how some people's eyes/brains view things. I found the 'sparkles' to interfere with reading text on white backgrounds. Yet for other people, they say they can't even see it at all.

I find regular matte monitors mostly acceptable, however. I still can see some sparkling, some grain, but it's not as bad -- it's sort of the threshold which I can stand before it begins to bug me.

And yep, most (if not all) tablets and mobile devices use IPS, or perhaps some use PLS. Their key weakness (overlooking the grainy coating thing, which really isn't a weakness in IPS tech, just a manufacturer choice), is that blacks are sort of... eh... okay most of the time, but not so great. And IPS glow, which is that white glow when viewed off-center, or for some panels, even visible straight on.

VA has its flaws too, primarily gamma shift horizontally. Some VA panels have black crush, as well.
It is also really difficult to find nowadays, as there seems to be only a handful of VA monitors still being made (unless you go super expensive Eizo). What may have been the best VA, S-PVA, isn't even being developed anymore. The current, generally affordable VA monitors, BenQ, Samsung 650, Phillips, etc aren't exactly considered high end, either.

@alike

That Samsung 650 may be your best bet if looking for a VA panel at a price similar to the U2412. If you get it, I suggest getting it from a place with easy returns, in case you don't like it. I'd probably lean towards the 24" model, as text and sharpness may be a bit off on the 27"er. If doing photoshop stuff, it may not be suitable though, due to somewhat low color coverage. It's a reason I haven't bought it for myself yet.

That said, if you dislike the Eizo 2331, I'm not sure you'll like any VA panel. They all have some horizontal gamma shift. For myself, that isn't a biggie, as vertical shift is what mostly bugs me.

And the four corners glowing on the U2412 is pretty common. Mine had it too (when I owned one, had to return it due to the coating). I assume that is simply IPS glow. If you want to avoid that, you'd probably need an IPS with a polarizer, which means going into the used market, for something like the NEC 2490.
 
i've decided on the korean IPS, i have a uncle in korea so i can have him check out all the issues, and he said their going for about $220 - 250 street price but hes pretty sure he can get it cheaper (he does it work there)
 
I will repost what i wrote on another thread, seems to be still spot on:
Korean 27" from MC ($400), maybe even with their 2 year replacement plan for few extra bucks. Only problem is they come and go out of stock. Buying from MC allow you to replace them if you get a bad one with dead pixel or what not. Another route would be look out for almost new IPS dell/hp etc on CL. I had very good luck on a dell 3008 with almost 2.5 year left on warranty on CL. also very new dell 2410, and brand new eizo 24. But that all depend where you live and what kind luck you have. Plus, don't be turn off by the slightly higher GtG time on some of the higher end ips/pva panels. 99/100 wont notice the difference even when playing FPS. And color/etc just no good on TN panels.
 
checked microcenter, its too bad though.. so far i'm using my 42" tv but i'm 3ft away, and 60hz really is a pain.. my eyes are so strained its not even funny haha

~EDIT! i picked up a DELL U2311H for $200
which isn't too bad I guess, but you guys were definitely right? 16:10 would look much better although it doesn't seem too bad..

but the monitor is bothering my eyes, i think its the AG coating, cause its only annoying during whites, it almost feels like the refresh rate is too low like old school crts.
 
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