good-bye msi, hello DFI

O

onetrueday

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
Messages
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picked up a DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra today.

It's going to replace the msi k8n nf4 that I'm currently running.

I have two major issues with the msi board. First, I can not oc past 219. This is a known issue. Plus, my laptop external HD will NOT run properly off the motherboard. It is underpowering the usb.

I had a msi mobo before (845 chipset). It would NOT reboot, ever. I had to shut it down and then turn it back on. Msi is horrible about fixing problems and I deserve a spanking for buying another.

So, I sold the msi on ebay for $75 + 12shipping = $88

I purchased the dfi for $85 refurb'ed from the egg.
 
I wish you luck as far more folks have issues with the DFI than the MSI! You MSI woudlnt reboot...well thats not a problem with most DFI Ultra D's as they can reboot a lot...usually continously when you dont want it.

I hope you got good ram and at least a 480W 24pin ATX2 PSU to go with it, in order to have a fighting chance. Do not think of bothering with an older 20 pin job.

Let us know how you get on. :)
 
daglesj said:
I wish you luck as far more folks have issues with the DFI than the MSI! You MSI woudlnt reboot...well thats not a problem with most DFI Ultra D's as they can reboot a lot...usually continously when you dont want it.

I hope you got good ram and at least a 480W 24pin ATX2 PSU to go with it, in order to have a fighting chance. Do not think of bothering with an older 20 pin job.

Let us know how you get on. :)
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funny.

I read and read about available mobos for socket939.

The only problem I could find with the dfi is that the nf4 could blow up if you overvolt the ram via the pins.

the msi restart issue was an intel845, older mobo. They knew of the issue, but wouldn't fix it.
 
Yeah, the 24-pin ATX power supply is a good investment, DFI or not. Some people have successfully run a 20-pin PSU, but the odds aren't in your favor.
 
My 20-pin PSU runs my Neo 4 Platinum great. Of course, I have a top-rated PSU, which I'm sure is why.

Both MSI and DFI have some good boards. However, two problem boards that are totally different and manufactured at different times does not make much of a reason to say "OMG this company sucks!" I could tell you that I've used seven MSI mainboards over the past several years ane every one is still running to counter that, although that's also anecdotal. It'd take more than your experience with two boards to convince me that MSI doesn't make a good product. Your USB and overclocking symptoms sound a lot more like you didn't have a great power supply

P.S. I've run a LaCie USB external drive (notebook drive in a case) perfectly fine off of my Neo 4 through my case's front USB ports. It's worked quite well without an issue.
 
I have had a DOA rate of 30% on all the MSI mainboards I have sold. I scrapped the whole lineup for a while, although I have started offering them again if I can't push the client in another direction.
 
Neither MSI or DFI are top quality in my book. MSI is a hit or miss kind of bag. Some models just seem to have huge problems, the DFI's have issues of thier own.

At least with Asus and Abit, while they aren't ideal in all cases either, they are stable and do work out of the box 99% of the time.

Overall though, my trust in MSI is much greater than it is in DFI. When I look at the potential issues, the MSI problems scare me the least.
 
i hate MSI boards now. ive had to RMA my pro266 twice and my neo2 once, and the neo2 still gives me random problems, the most annoying being that it wont run ghost, which is something i really like. never buying another MSI board, ima get an abit AN8 Ultra as soon as i can afford to go PCIe.

i wont go near a DFI board. people have far to many problems with them for me to want to deal with it, im sticking with abit and asus until i hear about someone else being as relaible as them.
 
I've replaced alot of MSI's for bad caps. Even recent models occasionally. Some of their boards like their i865PE board is complete junk, the damn thing doesn't read the SPD data off most memory modules I've ever tried to put into one.
 
onetrueday said:
I'm running an antec truecontrol 550, so the power supply shouldn't be an issue.
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From what I have read about the DFI board, it doesn't like non-24pin ATX 2.0 PSU's. Which the True Control 550 isn't. Its got a single 12 volt rail. While its certainly got the power output, it isn't built right for the newer motherboards.
 
onetrueday said:
I can not oc past 219. This is a known issue.
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but i bet two things:
1. you have a CBBID winchester
2. you can get higher in windows with clockgen

also, almost all nf4 boards like having the 24pin atx plug. problems don't reside with just the board that most people use, thus complain about ;)
(my apologies for bad wording there :p)
 
I am not a fan of MSI either. I loved my DFI Lan Party i875 mobo before I incorrectly flashed the bios and killed it lol. But then I got an IC7 and it was all good.

The New DFI boards seem really good, espically for overclocking. Thats what I am going to get when I get my X2 :)
 
I am not a fan of MSI either. I loved my DFI Lan Party i875 mobo before I incorrectly flashed the bios and killed it lol. But then I got an IC7 and it was all good.
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why didnt ya just hotflash it?
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
but i bet two things:
1. you have a CBBID winchester
2. you can get higher in windows with clockgen

also, almost all nf4 boards like having the 24pin atx plug. problems don't reside with just the board that most people use, thus complain about ;)
(my apologies for bad wording there :p)
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While this is true of all PCI-Express boards, it is more true of the DFI than most of them. There are tons of horror stories about PSU problems and that particular board.
 
The k8n neo series by MSI is known to have overclocking issues. I have the 754 version. It will not go above 230 or so. It's just a known fact. The same is true of the neo2. I was lucky: My board worked out of the box, the ethernet and USB are still good on it as well. But I went through 4 bios revisions before I could overclock AT ALL without boot issues.
 
I've never heard of MSI boards being such bad overclockers. I knew there was better, but never heard of them being so bad.
 
JustPyro said:
The k8n neo series by MSI is known to have overclocking issues. I have the 754 version. It will not go above 230 or so. It's just a known fact. The same is true of the neo2. I was lucky: My board worked out of the box, the ethernet and USB are still good on it as well. But I went through 4 bios revisions before I could overclock AT ALL without boot issues.
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I'd be quite happy with 230. ;)
 
So would most people. I can't get mine above 223 either, regardless of memory dividers, but some bios revisions got a select few to 230 if I remember correctly. Either way, the k8n board is not meant for serious overclocking. The biggest disappointment was the fact that the reference boards the techs sites recieved all overclocked extremely well.
 
JustPyro said:
The k8n neo series by MSI is known to have overclocking issues. I have the 754 version. It will not go above 230 or so. It's just a known fact. The same is true of the neo2. I was lucky: My board worked out of the box, the ethernet and USB are still good on it as well. But I went through 4 bios revisions before I could overclock AT ALL without boot issues.
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Gee, my Neo 2 Platinum did 240 just fine (It would have probably done better, but my RAM wasn't low-latency high-performance stuff). Where are you getting your information? Personally, I'd like to see the stats that back this one up..

Note: I think far too many people are expecting overclocks to be automatic these days, regardless of RAM, CPU stepping, make/model of power supply, or knowledge of BIOS tweaks. Overclocking is far from an exact science, and yet so many people are quick to jump to a hard and sure conclusion the moment their rig doesn't hit uber-light-speed. Regardless of system board, I've lost track of how many people expected their rig to get an amazing overclock running a system off a "Super-Mega--Platinum-Ultra-Max-Turbo-Snake- Ninja-Elite 600w Power Supply" that couldn't deliver near the stated wattage, or couldn't deliver it balanced across multiple rails, or whose amperage wasn't enough on the 12v rail(s) or AC ripple was horrible. Or using semi-generic RAM, or having a peripheral in their system that doesn't like being pushed a little harder. Whereas quite often, hardware sites testing boards like this have used high quality RAM, a brand-name power supply, and a cpu they know gets good overclocks already, so they can see if the board handles it well. And then when they get a great overclock and the home user doesn't, even though that home user may not be using the same quality ram/CPU/etc. the user is quick to say "OMG, this board sUx0rs!!!" Which provides anecdotal evidence for someone like yourself to say "Well, it's a proven fact that the Neo x boards are poor overclockers...Just look at all these stories I read, and mine didn't do it either!"

On my part, I tend to take stuff like this with a grain of salt until it can be proven one way or the other.
 
LoneWolf said:
Gee, my Neo 2 Platinum did 240 just fine (It would have probably done better, but my RAM wasn't low-latency high-performance stuff). Where are you getting your information? Personally, I'd like to see the stats that back this one up..
......

On my part, I tend to take stuff like this with a grain of salt until it can be proven one way or the other.
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If you look at the MSI forums, it is a generally accepted fact. There are lists of ram that generally allows better overclocking in the MSI boards, cores, steppings, etc. I know more about the 754 board, because I am obviously more interested, the "rules" are not hard rules, but it is a barrier many strive to achieve.

As for myself, I bought corsair value ram, because I put my system together last summer. A64s were new, and RAM prices were really high. My CPU is one of the few clawhammer 2800s. It's a first stepping release, and isn't actually officially supported by the neo. I never expected to hit extreme levels. My overclock varies depending on how my system is running at a particular time. A few weeks ago my rig failed to boot at 210. It generally runs fine at 220 though. BIOS revisions 1.0 and 1.1 were complete failures for me. 1.4 is treating me fairly well, and I feel that a stable OC of 220 at the stock mulitplier of 9 is very good.

Since 1.4, I've stopped spending so much time at the MSI forums, but the mobos are (were?) common for RMAs due to failing ethernet cards, USB, stability issues due to brands of RAM and other things at stock speeds. I consider myself lucky to have waited for bios 1.4 and to have never needed an RMA.

YMMV? lol. cheers to 240! If you really want me to dig through the forums I will, but I don't think it's necessary.
 
JustPyro said:
YMMV? lol. cheers to 240! If you really want me to dig through the forums I will, but I don't think it's necessary.
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It's not that. I just see that in a forum, there's often not a lot of commonality. Different CPU steppings, different types of RAM, different PSUs. I've seen plenty of people on Extremetech who got great results with the Neo2 Platinum, far better than mine. That said, I've seen people with results like yours. I find that's the true YMMV. Results can go both ways.
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
Out of curiosity why do you still hate it.
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given me tons of issues - ive had to RMA it once (very long wait. my other MSI board has been RMA'd twice now, not happy with MSI quality control or service at all), overall its been fairly unstable, the chipset fan is crap, i dont much like corecell - it likes to crash and cannot effectivly change fan speeds. i cannot run my memory together in a single channel config at ALL (it wont post, period), i dont like the layout, not good for large coolers. and; lastly, I CANT RUN FUCKING GHOST! the board will just hang when i try to boot too a ghost operation, and it really pisses me off.

<-- never buying another MSI board. ive had enough.
 
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