Good HDMI Cable

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stain.

[H]ard|Gawd
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What's a good HDMI cable? I have a monster cable going from my DVR to my TV, but from what I've heard the size/bandwidth of a DVI cable doesn't matter that much?

My TV is a 46" 1080p Samsung LCD. The cable would be from my xbox 360 to my Teevee
 
Sam's club has 6ft hdmi cables for $20. You shouldn't pay any more than that. a/v cable pricefixing is one of the biggest scams running at b&m shops like BB and CC. a $20 cable will do just as good as an overpriced $80 cable of the same length.
 
or if you have fry's near you check them, got few cables for $8 when i was down in houston over the holidays.
 
Monoprice.com as well.

Just got my order in yesterday for HDMI cables and a 2x1 hdmi switch. items shipped same day.
 
HDMI is digital so it either works or it doesn't. There is no variance in picture quality between cables. So long as the cheap cable has proper shielding to begin with then that is all you need to buy. I just bought a 6ft. DVI-D cable for $8.99 CAD at NCIX. If I went down to my local Futurehsop they would try to rape me for $50.00 or more for the same thing, except it would say Monster Cables on the label. Only thing I have read from a sound engineer is that solid core cable is better than stranded cable for digital. Guess what? Monster digital coax cables are stranded and my RocketFish coax cable that cost half of the price of similar Monster cable is solid core. RocketFish has better shielding and jacket too. Which would you buy?
 
milkweg said:
HDMI is digital so it either works or it doesn't. There is no variance in picture quality between cables. So long as the cheap cable has proper shielding to begin with then that is all you need to buy.
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Incorrect. Depending on how long the run and resolution video you are running, there can be significant quality degradation. Yes, we know digital is digital.. but that doesn't mean you don't lose quality. You can get dropout, macroblocking, incorrect color convergence, and variance in picture. For runs under 10 feet, cheap cables are fine. Anything over 10 feet, it is good to invest in a higher quality cable, especially for 1080p video.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cable-fi...iz-hdmi-cable-battlemodo-has-begun-266982.php
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/top/the-truth-about-monster-cable-266616.php
 
w1retap said:
Incorrect. Depending on how long the run and resolution video you are running, there can be significant quality degradation. Yes, we know digital is digital.. but that doesn't mean you don't lose quality. You can get dropout, macroblocking, incorrect color convergence, and variance in picture. For runs under 10 feet, cheap cables are fine. Anything over 10 feet, it is good to invest in a higher quality cable, especially for 1080p video.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cable-fi...iz-hdmi-cable-battlemodo-has-begun-266982.php
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/top/the-truth-about-monster-cable-266616.php
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Once again, I agree. However, no matter what, you're getting ripped off buying Monster. No matter how long the run. There are cables just as good for less money. Also, if it is a long run there are people that make repeaters.
 
BS. I have a 15ft. DVI>HDMI cable that cost a whole $33.99 CAD. Picture quality is perfect. Just because it says Monster doesn't make it better and just because it was cheap doesn't make it automatically bad. I already qualified my statement by saying so long as the cheap cable has good shielding. Long analog component can suffer from what you say but not digital. It either works perfectly or doesn't work at all. It is sending 0 and 1's down the cable so there is no variance in signal quality. I had a salesman try the same BS on me when he wanted me to get a custom cable made (just said it would cost me a lot and didn't give me a price) because they didn't sell over 12ft. and then he wanted me to buy a DVI>HDMI adpater for a further $50.00. For $33.99 I got what he wanted to charge me at least $250.00 for. I told him he was FOS and don't talk to him anymore and just give him a dirty look. Was that you?
 
I was not implying to buy Monster cables. I was just showing some articles that let people know how cables perform. I recommend Monoprice cables, even up to 50ft in length. Their CL2 rated cables are great. I'm running full 1080p via their 35ft cable to my projector, and it works flawlessly.
 
Well, I read your links and if Monster really knows what they are talking about and not just trying to blow smoke up everyones ass then why do they use stranded coax (talking about digital audio here now) instead of solid core? Because they are BS'ing scum bags. Sure, for *really* long runs you need thicker cable due to impedance and/or repeaters but where did I say I was talking about 150ft runs? Monster is claiming you need their cables for 2ft runs.
 
Oh, and here's a quote directly from that page you sent me to and backs up what I said.


BY THRELLY AT 06/06/07 06:11 PM

As an electronics engineer of 24 years standing, let me tell you CATEGORICALLY that this is horseshit.

The cheap cable will transmit digital information just as well as the monster cable over distances up to 20 metres or more.

Monster have been pulling the wool over audiophiles eyes for years.
Its hilarious to see them try the same schtick on digital transmission, just hilarious.
 
The articles I posted were actually not in the favor of Monster. They were showing how other cheaper brand cables can perform just as well under most situations. I really don't get where you are going with this. I don't like monster cables.. lol..

But yeah.. someone's blog posting in the comments section really isn't a credible information for the most part. As far as the 20 meters or more part, it does matter on the quality of cable for how much information you cram through it at once. I'm in my 4th year of computer/electrical engineering right now at the University of Michigan, and even I know that much.
 
Read this for the truth about cable length. It is about speaker wire but the principles apply to video cable too. Monster is talked about in this article too. I'm not really going anywhere with this, it's just that you contradicted what I said and I am out to prove what I said is true.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


The quote I used is from an electronics engineer. Why should I automatically discount him when he is not out to make a buck from his BS like Monster is from their BS?
 
Audio and video is totally different in both comparison and transmission. 1080p video uses so much more bandwidth it isn't even funny, not to mention that the devices receiving the signal are more sensitive for you to notice differences because it is the most acute sense. Video is susceptible to noticeable pixel dropout and digital breakup. Audio dropouts and degradation must be more significant for you to hear it, versus a very small amount of video dropout that you easily see with your eyes. If you cannot even see that basic principal, I'm not even going to go into detail in the science and engineering aspects of it. I'll leave it to someone else.
 
He's right.

To put it plainly, you see much more than you hear. There are many frequencies that you can't hear. For instance, you will not hear the difference from a well encoded Mp3 from the raw WAV. However, if you watch an uncompressed PCM and then watch satellite T.V. you will see artifacts, especially during dark scenes. Satellite T.V. is encoded using MPEG2.

Also, FYI milkweg, current travels on the outside of the wire, not the inside. So, more strands equals more current. What makes monster stupid is the price. Also, they solder their ends instead of crimping.
 
w1retap said:
Incorrect. Depending on how long the run and resolution video you are running, there can be significant quality degradation. Yes, we know digital is digital.. but that doesn't mean you don't lose quality. You can get dropout, macroblocking, incorrect color convergence, and variance in picture. For runs under 10 feet, cheap cables are fine. Anything over 10 feet, it is good to invest in a higher quality cable, especially for 1080p video.
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Ya, hang out at AV forums long enough and you'll run into enough people complaining about how their hdmi/dvi cables work like crap. The origin of their problem may not always be their cable, but swapping out to a better cable often seems to fix the problem. It doesn't seem to be a problem with shielding either, it seems to be a problem with the design of the cable itself.

That being said, Monoprice hdmi cables get very few complaints. They probably weed out the bad ones after they get X amount of returns, as they should.
 
The box-store cable-scam is exactly that: a scam. There are multiple class-action lawsuits pending for this exact issue. Don't forget, a lot of these companies have already been hit for these types of issues. monoprice is a great solution. I personally have had excellent experiences with them. Great product, that performs better than their monster counter-parts. $200 for a "top-of-the-line" HDMI cable is one of the biggest scams in tech history. The sales people drink that cool-aid as well.
 
w1retap said:
Audio and video is totally different in both comparison and transmission. 1080p video uses so much more bandwidth it isn't even funny, not to mention that the devices receiving the signal are more sensitive for you to notice differences because it is the most acute sense. Video is susceptible to noticeable pixel dropout and digital breakup. Audio dropouts and degradation must be more significant for you to hear it, versus a very small amount of video dropout that you easily see with your eyes. If you cannot even see that basic principal, I'm not even going to go into detail in the science and engineering aspects of it. I'll leave it to someone else.
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Open your eyes, man. I said the PRINCIPLES are the same!!! I never said the same cable that you use for audio is good enough for video too. WTF are you even arguing about?

BTW, you told me I shouldn't give any credibility to some guy in a forum with 24 years experience as an electronics engineer but you then try to make yourself sound more credible by stating you are a 4th year engineering student. Pot-kettle-black.

Yes, there are shitty cheap cables out there that have poor shielding and use cable that is not thick enough to transmit a good signal but there is also good cable that you can buy for dirt cheap and you don't need to spend over $200.00 for Monster cable. That is all my claim is. WTF do you take issue with that? It is good advice. If you buy some crap brand cable that has issues then return it and try another cheapish brand until you find a good one then stick with that brand. I use RocketFish cables for audio and they are damn good and half the price of Monster cables. But they are not rock bottom price cables. either. They make video cables too but have never used any of them so can't comment. But as I said before, the $33.00 15ft. digital video cable I do use gives just as good image quality as a $250.00 Monster cable.
 
PolygonGTC said:
Also, FYI milkweg, current travels on the outside of the wire, not the inside. So, more strands equals more current.
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Really? We are talking about digital transmission and not analog. For digital transmission sold core is preferred. Go look it up. I got that info from an audio engineer and didn't make it up. That comment was in refernce to a Monster coax digital audio cable that used stranded cable and the only shielding was a rubberized PVC type jacket. The RocketFish digital coax cable I bought for half the price of the Monster cable was a solid core cable with both copper and aluminum shielding and a nice thick cloth jacket. Their design was exactly what the audio engineer recommended for digital audio coax. You trying to tell me the Monster would have been a better choice because it used stranded cable? I call BS on that too and will prove it to you if are too lazy to do your own research. I'm not even an engineer and can still hold my own with you guys any day. And the reason for that is because I do a lot of research before I buy anything. Best to be informed rather than drink the grape kool-aid. :)
 
Current does travel on the outside surface of the wire.. it doesn't matter if the transmission is analog or digital or whatever else. It is just electric pulses. I really don't know how you are going to prove it false. It is one of the first most basic concepts you learn in an upper level physics course in college. Look up skin effect.
 
milkweg said:
Open your eyes, man. I said the PRINCIPLES are the same!!! I never said the same cable that you use for audio is good enough for video too. WTF are you even arguing about?
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But you were not correct in drawing the line. The two cannot be compared in the same manor if we are having a discussion based on video. Stop trying to redeem yourself, please. You are the one who keeps coming back after we corrected you and you're trying to make your case like you actually meant something different than you did.
BTW, you told me I shouldn't give any credibility to some guy in a forum with 24 years experience as an electronics engineer but you then try to make yourself sound more credible by stating you are a 4th year engineering student. Pot-kettle-black.
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The random person on that forum claiming to be a 24-year engineer wasn't speaking of video. Therefore he was incorrect about the situation for video because the two do not compare in the same ways.
Yes, there are shitty cheap cables out there that have poor shielding and use cable that is not thick enough to transmit a good signal but there is also good cable that you can buy for dirt cheap and you don't need to spend over $200.00 for Monster cable. That is all my claim is. WTF do you take issue with that? It is good advice. If you buy some crap brand cable that has issues then return it and try another cheapish brand until you find a good one then stick with that brand. I use RocketFish cables for audio and they are damn good and half the price of Monster cables. But they are not rock bottom price cables. either. They make video cables too but have never used any of them so can't comment. But as I said before, the $33.00 15ft. digital video cable I do use gives just as good image quality as a $250.00 Monster cable.
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If you listen to me, I have said numerous times that Monster cables are a ripoff and not to use them. I specifically stated monoprice as an alternative. I even went as far as to say I'm using their 35ft HDMI CL2 rated cable to run to my projector at 1080p resolution and it works great. Please read what I type first before you waste your time typing some sort of misguided rebuttal.
 
milkweg said:
Really? We are talking about digital transmission and not analog. For digital transmission sold core is preferred. Go look it up. I got that info from an audio engineer and didn't make it up. That comment was in refernce to a Monster coax digital audio cable that used stranded cable and the only shielding was a rubberized PVC type jacket. The RocketFish digital coax cable I bought for half the price of the Monster cable was a solid core cable with both copper and aluminum shielding and a nice thick cloth jacket. Their design was exactly what the audio engineer recommended for digital audio coax. You trying to tell me the Monster would have been a better choice because it used stranded cable? I call BS on that too and will prove it to you if are too lazy to do your own research. I'm not even an engineer and can still hold my own with you guys any day. And the reason for that is because I do a lot of research before I buy anything. Best to be informed rather than drink the grape kool-aid. :)
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w1retap beat me to it. It doesn't matter. It's still a conductor and it still uses electric pulses. Granted, the shielding isn't best. But you will get more current with more strands every time unless were talking about fiber. In which case you don't have to worry about interference anyhow.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Like w1retap said, this is basic physics.
 
w1retap said:
The random person on that forum claiming to be a 24-year engineer wasn't speaking of video. Therefore he was incorrect about the situation for video because the two do not compare in the same ways.
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Also, just because they are an electrical engineer that doesn't mean thet know jack about audio/video. There are so many different paths. My brother-in-law was an electrical engineer and worked for Ball Aerospace designing satellites and trust me, he doesn't know the first thing about audio/video.
 
I buy Monster A/V cables (HDMI included), not because it's supposedly better, but simply becasue I like the cable design and that I get a better cable (not talking about signaling properties, I'm talking about the cable, neck, and jacket itself). I think another reason is that I bought a few monster cables a long time ago and now I just like to keep them all matching :)

However, if it has to come to long runs or in-wall installations, I'll go with Monoprice cables anyday... can't justify spending so much on long runs like that.

Anyways, I recomend Monoprice cables... best bang for the buck. If you want a whole set of cables and want something that looks/perfoms good, check out Costco's Wirelogic cable set for $89... pretty good deal for the amount of cables you get and the quality.
 
w1retap said:
Current does travel on the outside surface of the wire.. it doesn't matter if the transmission is analog or digital or whatever else. It is just electric pulses. I really don't know how you are going to prove it false. It is one of the first most basic concepts you learn in an upper level physics course in college. Look up skin effect.
Click to expand...

I know about skin effect. Once again, for digital solid core is preferred. Are you going to look it up or just try to play superior with me with your engineering double-speak?
 
PolygonGTC said:
Also, just because they are an electrical engineer that doesn't mean thet know jack about audio/video. There are so many different paths. My brother-in-law was an electrical engineer and worked for Ball Aerospace designing satellites and trust me, he doesn't know the first thing about audio/video.
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Then why do I have these self proclaimed engineering students telling me how it is? Because they read it in their big book of electronics. If starnded wire is superi9or for both video and audio then why are there companies that make solid core cable? You tell me not to believe everything I read on the internet but you expect me to believe you, which is on the internet too. Wow, the hypocrisy in this thread is unbelievable.
 
milkweg said:
Then why do I have these self proclaimed engineering students telling me how it is? Because they read it in their big book of electronics. If starnded wire is superi9or for both video and audio then why are there companies that make solid core cable? You tell me not to believe everything I read on the internet but you expect me to believe you, which is on the internet too. Wow, the hypocrisy in this thread is unbelievable.
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I said don't believe everything you read on the internet and I don't expect you to believe me. All I can do is tell you how it is, just go read a physics book, and you can believe what ever the hell you want. However, don't tell me I'm wrong when I have science on my side. I don't know why some people use solid core, because they don't understand how current travels on the wire, perhaps it's cheaper? I do know that every physics course I've been in states that current travels on the outside of the wire, not the core. I tend to side with physics here. That being the case more strands would allow more current flow in a smaller package. It is like adding lanes to a highway. The more you have the more you can move at a given time. It's called bandwidth. For instance you can only do 10mbps on a cat3 cable while you can get 100mbps on a cat5 cable. Imagine that, more cables equals more current. :eek:

Also, my brother-in-law who's an electrical engineer. He owns a pair of Bose speakers and they sound like crap. He also doesn't think that there is an audible difference in current amplifiers and older vacuum tubes. There is A LOT he does not know about audio but I bet he could design a computer motherboard. There are different aspects to electrical engineering. Just because you hold an EE degree does not mean you know a damn thing about audio and that includes cables. Hell, I have a friend that's an EE student that asks me for audio advice all the time.

Maybe you can tell me why power lines are made up of stranded cables and not one large solid core as are the main power cable in any car or spark plug wires?

However, I can tell you're trying to be painfully obtuse and closed minded so I'm done arguing with you and I leave you with this:

Electric Current In A Metal Wire
 
milkweg said:
And you're not a random person at hardocp? Tell you what, I'll spread my BS and you spread your BS and never shall the two cross again on this forum.
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My BS is called physics that I learned from a university and it is common knowledge throughout the scientific community, what is yours? :p Come on, please be realistic here. Ignorance isn't a claim to victory. Rather, you should go through life learning things just for your own personal benefits.
 
I think I'll listen ti w1retap. He seems to know what he's talking about..

That and I know if you use solid core to transfer electricity, it doesn't do good things. I tried a while ago and a friend said I'd cause his car to go up in flames.
 
Solid core cable is cheaper to produce and does get the job done in many cases. Stranded is more flexible and in most cases, better suited for the application. When you get to the current that solid core can carry vs equivalent stranded cores, the cable becomes less flexible and likley to be damaged.

There will always be a market for both solid core and stranded, especially in todays copper prices..
 
Well I bought an el cheapo cable and it won't do 1080p so don't get the cheapest cable.
 
I'm deliberately being obtuse and ignorant? Well, FU ya little dweebs.

http://www.securityideas.com/cableselection.html

Solid core, bare-copper conductor is best suited to video applications, except where flexing occurs.

Ever hear of strand jumping, morons?

http://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/404listening/

Which brings us to the Morecroft design most audio buffs have encountered: DNM solid-core cable. Introduced in 1984, DNM's interconnects went against the grain by giving the music only a single, small (a cross section of about 1mm) conductor to travel along, in order to minimize eddy currents and the distorting fields they induce. For the same reason, connectors of very low mass were chosen—which, it's safe to say, kept great numbers of audiophiles away by appearing insufficiently chunky and jewel-like—and stranded wires were avoided, not only because of their own propensity to create eddy currents, but also to avoid the smearing that results when one signal travels along many adjacent, uninsulated conductors. (Besides, in a world in which most amplifiers are happy driving a resistive load, why add complexity to a cable merely to make it less resistive?) DNM's speaker cables were similar, using a conductor of slightly larger cross section and, again, connectors of the lowest possible mass.
 
There is no need to insult people here.

You linked us up to standard def guidlines for CCTV viewing, and a audio site. Go ahead and try running a 2000ft run of 1080p video with a non-amped interconnect system between two consumer grade devices and see how far you get. Be our guest.
 
Uh, who's talking about a 2000ft run? What's the point you are trying to make exactly? It's ok for them to be offensive by calling me obtuse and ignorant but it's not ok for me to defend myself in the same manner? These guys are just parroting what the teach told them at school and are not thinking for themselves. That deserves disdain.
 
Maybe so, but obtuse and ignorant are descriptive terms are not catagorized as namecalling, FU you little dweebs however is. You will get more help here by being nice and not namecalling the members. Tone it down a notch.
 
I hesitate to add anything because of the nature these threads take. However, it is false to conclude that digital signals don't care about the quality of the cabling. What really matters here is if there is a perceived difference. Most likely the cheap cables are good enough and most problems aren't fixed with better ones. However, there are concerns other than signal integrity which can lead to spending more money.
 
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