Google Pulling Out of China?

IRSmurf said:
Yes! Do it Google! Right your wrongs! While you're at it, can you fix THIS?

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Fixing this WOULD be censorship would it not as the auto suggestion is derived from searches themselves?

While many would object to these suggestions its what people are searching.
 
rabident said:
Lots of examples at www.chillingeffects.org

Low hanging fruit would be anything that violates DMCA, race/hate, or the continuously evolving definition of child pornography. In general, anything that violates US law.

China wants censorship (for China) to include anything that violates Chinese law.
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You've mixed a lot of different subjects up, copyright protection, child porn, etc. The bottom line is that in the US and most of the west, I can say BAD THINGS about the government and the people in it generally without fear of reprisal. Not so much in China.
 
heatlesssun said:
You've mixed a lot of different subjects up, copyright protection, child porn, etc. The bottom line is that in the US and most of the west, I can say BAD THINGS about the government and the people in it generally without fear of reprisal. Not so much in China.
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The average Chinese can say bad things about their government too.

You are not an activist. If you are one, I m sure the FBI will have you on their list. Your phone call is already being monitor.

Look at Joe Wilson's wife been exposed for speaking out.
 
Matador said:
The average Chinese can say bad things about their government too.

You are not an activist. If you are one, I m sure the FBI will have you on their list. Your phone call is already being monitor.

Look at Joe Wilson's wife been exposed for speaking out.
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So people in China can organize a protest and say bad things about there government and its people? They can setup online communities and campaign against politicians and policies they don't like? They can elect their leaders? Hmm... okay.

Once again you're mixing up things. Start talking too much and sure you're going to attract attention. I would want my government to keep an eye on certain people. Not saying that that doesn't get abused but it is necessary. Some people ARE DANGEROUS AND KILL INNOCENTS!

Not the same this as shut up and sit down.
 
heatlesssun said:
So people in China can organize a protest and say bad things about there government and its people? They can setup online communities and campaign against politicians and policies they don't like? They can elect their leaders? Hmm... okay.

Once again you're mixing up things. Start talking too much and sure you're going to attract attention. I would want my government to keep an eye on certain people. Not saying that that doesn't get abused but it is necessary. Some people ARE DANGEROUS AND KILL INNOCENTS!

Not the same this as shut up and sit down.
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As long as Google continues to make billions by dealing with China, and they are, all you will see is posturing.

Google has become part of worldwide government, we may see some name changes etc. but no way will the two sever ties. They couldn't afford the loss.
 
BillR said:
As long as Google continues to make billions by dealing with China, and they are, all you will see is posturing.

Google has become part of worldwide government, we may see some name changes etc. but no way will the two sever ties. They couldn't afford the loss.
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I would tend to agree. But Google in and of itself offers little that can't be easily replicated as the Chinese are all about these days, copying all the good stuff they can and making it their own.
 
heatlesssun said:
I would tend to agree. But Google in and of itself offers little that can't be easily replicated as the Chinese are all about these days, copying all the good stuff they can and making it their own.
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So far Chinese business still needs a certain amount of legitimacy, they get that from Google. I think it will be a while before that changes.
 
heatlesssun said:
You've mixed a lot of different subjects up, copyright protection, child porn, etc. The bottom line is that in the US and most of the west, I can say BAD THINGS about the government and the people in it generally without fear of reprisal. Not so much in China.
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You can go to Nevada and have sex with a prostitute without fear of reprisal. Not so much in Florida. Local governance matters even within the US.

You are free to say bad things about the government without reprisal, but not a fellow citizen. Against a fellow citizen or business owner, it could be defamation or libel. Both are illegal and censored.
 
nation of cowards, beaten down by their own countrymen who are bigger cowards too make sure a handful of *cough* "people" live it up

People of China, GROW SOME BALLS
 
Poor Google...Even though the Communist regime in China can be considered original by achieving what every other Communist regime didn't (Think Cambodia for an Extreme). They are still Communists. And you cannot negotiate with Communists unless you compromise your soul. BTW, when I say negotiate that means they tell you they'll do something and then do the contrary.
 
Enduring_Warrior said:
People are the same everywhere. The U.S. just got really really really lucky.
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honestly, in a country with the culture of america, with the people of america (multicultural, more so than any other country, and individualistic), such an autocratic, and repressive government could never take hold
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
so because they own a bit of our foreign debt we should let their evil practices slide?

the chinese holdings of US debt really aren't that potent a weapon, take it from me, someone that interned at the federal reserve in his college years, the power that china has over US policy has more to do with the lack of balls on the part of our politicians more than china's debt holdings

besides, "If you owe a bank thousands, you have a problem; owe a bank millions, the bank has a problem"

or something like that anyway
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We owe them more than just money, we owe them our way of life. The reason why our politicians don't have the balls is because the lobbyists that pay them have interests in China. If China gets mad at those companies then it can cause the bottom to fall out on the U.S. economy. Imagine if China decided to raise the costs associated with manufacturing overhead. In terms of the global financial markets, China is looking alot more appealing than Wall Street. Imagine when the global economy decides to move to China. I'm not saying we should let them slide, but people need to realize that we can't expect them to keep bailing us out then call them a bunch evil bastards.
 
heatlesssun said:
Fixing this WOULD be censorship would it not as the auto suggestion is derived from searches themselves?

While many would object to these suggestions its what people are searching.
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You missed the point.
The point is that the last search doesn't suggest anything, hence it has been censored.
 
Matador said:
Money run the world.

Majority of Chinese don't want Western style democracy according to a PEW research Poll which is dysfunctional mostly.

The financial crisis did not bring down China but made China stronger than before. Its domestic market that propel China out the crisis so did the 1997 financial crisis.

If you don't want to invest China, its OK with China.
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I wouldn't be so sure about all that, chief...

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/1228/economy-ponzi-debt-peking-china-bubble.html

And there are growing sentiments that China is cooking their books on economic growth.
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
honestly, in a country with the culture of america, with the people of america (multicultural, more so than any other country, and individualistic), such an autocratic, and repressive government could never take hold
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I'm sorry, damn near spit my drink on the screen. Have you looked around here in the past say 50 or so years? Look where we are headed.
 
rabident said:
Lots of examples at www.chillingeffects.org

Low hanging fruit would be anything that violates DMCA, race/hate, or the continuously evolving definition of child pornography. In general, anything that violates US law.

China wants censorship (for China) to include anything that violates Chinese law.
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I'm going to sit here and laugh and let the irony sink into your brain for a few hours - that is, if you're capable of thinking beyond conspiracy theories.
 
Keiichi said:
We owe them more than just money, we owe them our way of life. The reason why our politicians don't have the balls is because the lobbyists that pay them have interests in China. If China gets mad at those companies then it can cause the bottom to fall out on the U.S. economy. Imagine if China decided to raise the costs associated with manufacturing overhead. In terms of the global financial markets, China is looking alot more appealing than Wall Street. Imagine when the global economy decides to move to China. I'm not saying we should let them slide, but people need to realize that we can't expect them to keep bailing us out then call them a bunch evil bastards.
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china would commit national suicide if it used its us currency holdings as a weapon....

your opinion, though very popular, is highly misguided and overhyped... i'm sorry, but china is *not* anywhere near a major threat, financially, or otherwise to the health of the united states....
 
Our government loves to ream us in the ass, don't think otherwise, China just does it on a whole different level.

Anyway, considering we have bigger things to worry about than what China is doing right now, I really don't think we should do anything about it. If they get tired of their government, they can do something about it...
 
BillR said:
Look where we are headed.
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nobody can really tell where we're headed (yet... I say the next generation of politicians will be a *defining* one for this country), but it sure as hell isn't to a government like China's.... get real
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
china would commit national suicide if it used its us currency holdings as a weapon....

your opinion, though very popular, is highly misguided and overhyped... i'm sorry, but china is *not* anywhere near a major threat, financially, or otherwise to the health of the united states....
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It's very easy to give an opinion without an argument. Can you support your opinion. I'd like to see your point of view with a rational well sustained perspective so I can understand.
 
heatlesssun said:
Fixing this WOULD be censorship would it not as the auto suggestion is derived from searches themselves?

While many would object to these suggestions its what people are searching.
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Lol, Think of Chamberlain, yes the British Prime Minestrone, I mean Minister. This will happen all over and over and over again. And you still see people wondering why bad things happen. The people in power not always know how to keep it. More so, they don't even understand what it is. Thus when a contender that's obsessed with power comes along, ergo. They're nailed. That's why I only worry about become as independent as possible. 'Cause there's nothing I can do about the rest of the people.
 
rabident said:
US and Google censor content here. Why is it so terrible when China wants to do it?
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Because you must be a Communist who has no idea what he's actually talking about. It's not what you do(censor), is how you use it and how far are you willing/have been able to take it.
 
IRSmurf said:
Yes! Do it Google! Right your wrongs! While you're at it, can you fix THIS?

BL3Lo.gif






Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Hoorah!



No, not fuck China.

Fuck the Chinese government. There's a big fraking difference.
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Google is a business. If censoring the results in question gives them better PR, and in turn, better business, it is in the best interests of the shareholders for Google to censor them. Google is doing the right thing here.
 
Matador said:
It is true about Mao policy but that is 50 years ago and not on foreign country.

We are talking some one make false claim and invade other country.
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Pffft, I'd like to see you mention Hitler...just for once. Anyways, point taken, Stupid is what Stupid does. Yet, you want to live on an Empire, right? Otherwise you wouldn't be talking here.
 
AVT said:
Google is a business. If censoring the results in question gives them better PR, and in turn, better business, it is in the best interests of the shareholders for Google to censor them. Google is doing the right thing here.
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The mentality you're displaying was the same kind of mentality the late Roman Empire implemented. Hence it felled. If you as a business can't see that you need a solid, prolific and self-reliant social and cultural system to support your Business and you sacrifice that, your very sustain, in order to make a short term profit, then my friend you just wait and see. In my opinion that is the most stupid and short sighted point of view you can have because it will only bring the worse consequences, as history has proven over and over again. As simple as it is, the Arabic culture got Engulfed by Islamic Fanaticism and just as Rome it went into decadence. They were the top Culture in the 10th century, the center of the world. Some even consider it to have picked up where Roma left(Constantinople). And now they're the most retrograde of them all. If you, A TECHNOLOGY Business in an era, within a culture, where technology is almost if not all that there is give in to a retrograde society and their nihilistic mentality I don't see how can you last very long. Not until you're conquered.
 
Hmm... come to think of it, the current Chinese poliburo is, unfortunately for me to say, one of the most capable group of oligarchs ruling today. These people are born after the turmoils of all that is Mao and they are the survivors of the Tian'anmen party infighting, so as such they are some of the most pragmatic leaders around. They are the perfect princes, as they use fear as well as 'love' (care about the masses) to keep a delicate balance game together, one that pits the 300 million haves against the remaining have-not in that rapidly changing country. This I see manifested with the official vocabulary of 'Harmony' and 'Progress'.

AVT isn't so wrong since corporations don't tend to live for centuries... so they really need only to look at the immediate or at best decade long gains. The existence of nation-state has different criterion to that of a corporation anyways.
 
If google shut down Robin Li at Baidu would laugh and buy himself a small island as a present and the Chinese government would laugh too.

Google isn't going to do anything. And the Chinese government would probably be thrilled if they did shut down. It would be less competition for Baidu.
 
rabident said:
Lots of examples at www.chillingeffects.org

Low hanging fruit would be anything that violates DMCA, race/hate, or the continuously evolving definition of child pornography. In general, anything that violates US law.

China wants censorship (for China) to include anything that violates Chinese law.
Click to expand...

Yes it is funny that some people here don't count the DMCA as censorship, there are plenty of results censored under that cloud.

I think it funny too that americans think their laws are somehow right and another countries laws are somehow wrong if they are different. Why? Right/wrong is subjective there is no ultimate good or evil, there is only logic. Frankly the difference between China/America isn't that much, in both if you speak too loudly about anything sensitive you're getting killed or locked up.
 
China is poor and backward and will remain so for decades to come (if not for the whole of the 21st century).

The most optimistic projections have China equalling the US economy in size by 2050. Bear in mind that China's population is 4 times larger. So at best we're looking at a third world country (with third world inefficiences and living standards) becomming, two generations from now, a latin american level economy

China is not 'the future' (not anymore than the rest of the world). No country or business is looking to emulate China or any Chinese business. Noone is going to China to learn lessons in how to run anything or to see the latest in technology as was the case with Japan in the 80s and 90s.

People say "china isn't just a low wage economy" because ... it is. That's all it is for the forseable future. It provides an enormous labour pool with, for the time being, no wars or other inconviences to prevent it's exploitation, and a government that, again for the time being, is able to provide facilitating infrastructure to non-chinese business.

For the answer as to why China is given the false image we have in our media you have to look at our own internal politics. It has nothing to do with China itself.
 
Or to put it another way.

The only scenario in which "China is the future" within our lifetimes is if something extremely unfortunate happens to the western world.

There will be a change in the relative balance of power. But "relative" is the key word.
 
I'm Chinese myself and I do not like the Chinese government myself. I mean, seriously, with all of PRC's stupid bullshit strict censorship and rules, this does not really surprise me. If Google pulls out of China, I say do it.

Chinese government = bunch of morons
 
IntelPatriot said:
China is poor and backward and will remain so for decades to come (if not for the whole of the 21st century)...

For the answer as to why China is given the false image we have in our media you have to look at our own internal politics. It has nothing to do with China itself.

...The only scenario in which "China is the future" within our lifetimes is if something extremely unfortunate happens to the western world.
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Well, I have to give China props for well knowing what happened with the USSR and industrialization of Japan, and the more recent Asian tigers as they go ahead to do better. Let us not slam the books and say that it's all propaganda by the media corporations.

Looking back at Japan since Meiji restoration of 1870s, we can undeniably say that this once isolationist back-water country managed to shake the world even by 1905 (Tsushima), a process of some 30-40 years, as had Russia from 1917-1950s.

Comparing to that, Deng Xiaoping turning China to Capitalism have been in place for about 2 decades and is still ongoing. Even if say that China will see something like the collapse of USSR, we should keep in mind that Russia today is very, very far from an agrarian, backward place.

I can only agree with IntelPatriot on China not being the future (of United States of America), but not on China being backward and poor. It's now a nation amongst the 'haves', but just at the level of the developed world.
 
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