Google To Offer Location Opt-Out to Wi-Fi Owners

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Gee, isn't Google generous. :rolleyes: Can anyone tell me why stuff like this isn't opt-in ONLY by default? Honestly, I shouldn't have to do anything to avoid being a part of crap like this.

Google Inc. is going to let people with home wireless networks decide whether they want to be lumped into a system that helps pinpoint the locations of people on cell phones. The concession announced Tuesday will give wireless, or Wi-Fi, networks the right to forbid Google from listing them in a vast database that the company has been building in the past few years.
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Can we opt out of Google implanting gps system into our heads at the same time, just in case Google decides to give that a try as well?
 
Didn't read the article, but isn't this just another way for Google to get your information? After all, you have to give your information to Google to be able to opt-out, right? :D
 
Let me guess, this is so they can associate a real name to the "accidentally" collected data, right?
 
Apple Inc. made a programming chance earlier this year that the company promised would prevent its iPhone from automatically collecting data from Wi-Fi networks.
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Only because they have an entire image of your phone on their servers already, just in case the authorities ask for it.
 
Im trying to remember the last time I read an article about Google that didn't make me angry. People shouldn't have to opt-out of having their physical where-abouts known at all times.

Remember, if someone offers you a service for free, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT they are selling to someone else.
 
Monkey God said:
Im trying to remember the last time I read an article about Google that didn't make me angry. People shouldn't have to opt-out of having their physical where-abouts known at all times.

Remember, if someone offers you a service for free, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT they are selling to someone else.
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Ugh, oh look, its the daily FUD.
 
wizdum said:
Ugh, oh look, its the daily FUD.
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The interesting thing about reading the [H] front page news is that you just know it isn't going to be long before you see someone say something completely retarded. I've yet to be let down. Thank you.

Don't mistake common sense and true wisdom for FUD.
 
While I don't think I have a problem with Google identifying wi-fi networks for triangulation purposes, it was definitely creepy and sneaky of them to collect information from the networks while they did it.

However, while I was in Japan my Droid's GPS wasn't able to get a lock (not sure why). So when I needed to find out where I was I relied on this wi-fi based system and it had absolute pin-point accuracy, it was pretty impressive if not slightly scary.
 
FoxhoundOp said:
The interesting thing about reading the [H] front page news is that you just know it isn't going to be long before you see someone say something completely retarded. I've yet to be let down. Thank you.

Don't mistake common sense and true wisdom for FUD.
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You do realize that Google is only one of hundreds of companies that do this, and so far they are the only one to allow an "opt-out", right?

Also, Google does not sell your information to anyone. Google is in the ADVERTISING BUSINESS. They keep your information to themselves so that companies will have to go to Google to get the best return on targeted advertising. If they sold the information to other companies, there would be no reason to pay Google to host ads.

And please don't start that bullshit about google spying with streetview cars. 99% of the crap they accidentally collected (yes, it really was an accident, for the last fucking time), and the other 1% that may contain 1/3 of a password or something is completely unsearchable.
 
Make fun of me all you want but I choose not to trust what they do with that data.
 
People here seem to be making a much bigger deal out of the system than it merits.

The system basically lets someone using a cellphone, if they enable wi-fi geo location, to send the SSID of the surrounding wifis to Google. This is information the wifis are essentially screaming constantly to anyone that will listen. Google then matches up the SSID's to the IDs their cars picked up when they were in the same location in the past and tells the cellphone "You are at this location".

'Opting out' just means that the wifi ID the cellphone sends is not used for this. This doesn't mean that they'll erase the SSIDs from the database, just that it will not be used in the query on their end. Even if they erased it from the database, every cellphone with wifi geolocation on is constantly streaming this information back to Google. If you are worried about what nefarious uses they may have for it, too bad, they already have it.

You want to opt out? Put your wifi on silent mode, so it doesn't broadcast it's SSID to the world. Getting upset at Google just shows that you don't really understand the technology you're complaining about.

Ultimately, the SSID should not provide any significant clue as to the identity of the home owner. No more information than the appearance of your house does. Any relevant information is already in the possession of the person with the cellphone anyway, since they're already standing outside your house, looking at their map app wondering how to get to where they are going. They could just look at the wifi signals to know what SSIDs are around ,and they could figure out which ssid belongs to each house with a bit of patience on their own.
 
Kynnath said:
People here seem to be making a much bigger deal out of the system than it merits.

The system basically lets someone using a cellphone, if they enable wi-fi geo location, to send the SSID of the surrounding wifis to Google. This is information the wifis are essentially screaming constantly to anyone that will listen. Google then matches up the SSID's to the IDs their cars picked up when they were in the same location in the past and tells the cellphone "You are at this location".

'Opting out' just means that the wifi ID the cellphone sends is not used for this. This doesn't mean that they'll erase the SSIDs from the database, just that it will not be used in the query on their end. Even if they erased it from the database, every cellphone with wifi geolocation on is constantly streaming this information back to Google. If you are worried about what nefarious uses they may have for it, too bad, they already have it.

You want to opt out? Put your wifi on silent mode, so it doesn't broadcast it's SSID to the world. Getting upset at Google just shows that you don't really understand the technology you're complaining about.

Ultimately, the SSID should not provide any significant clue as to the identity of the home owner. No more information than the appearance of your house does. Any relevant information is already in the possession of the person with the cellphone anyway, since they're already standing outside your house, looking at their map app wondering how to get to where they are going. They could just look at the wifi signals to know what SSIDs are around ,and they could figure out which ssid belongs to each house with a bit of patience on their own.
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IMO, that is one dumbfuck way for Google to supplement geolocation techniques. Not only does it rely on the initial GPS "guesstimation" of the WiFi AP being accurate, it relies on the WiFi AP not changing location at all, not to mention, the extra handshake requests from every dimwitt's cell phones. To top it off, a hidden SSID already has it's issues associated with it, most noteably, all clientside security flaws (last one I remember is android OS needed a patch - which most devices still don't have - to stop broadcasting a fair amount of applicaton/user login info in plaintext the moment a hidden network is detected).

Oh, whatever. I just moved my WiFi router far away enough from the street, so my laptop couldn't pick up any signal from it (Intel 6250 card, should be good enough metric of this).
 
No extra handshake requests needed, the cellphone can just listen passively to pick up the SSIDs. The wifi's shout these all the time. And since any cellphone with geo location and GPS antenna is going to be sending it's estimated position and a list of wifis back, Google is probably constantly updating its database and refining positions based on the information they receive.
 
Kynnath said:
No extra handshake requests needed, the cellphone can just listen passively to pick up the SSIDs. The wifi's shout these all the time. And since any cellphone with geo location and GPS antenna is going to be sending it's estimated position and a list of wifis back, Google is probably constantly updating its database and refining positions based on the information they receive.
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ah, I see.
 
So, if one were so inclined, if you created a program and shared it out around the world that randomly rotated SSID's between remote geological locations, if enough people got on it could it screw up the system?

Concept: SSID ABC shows up in New York today, and SSID XYZ is in Boise; every few days they swap SSIDs so all of a sudden Cellphone N is showing proximity to Boise rather than the NY subway.
 
Tired of hearing about shit that is "Opt-Out" implying it's on by default, when it should be "Opt-In" and off by default.
 
But regulators and privacy watchdogs worry the location databases being maintained by Google and others could turn into tracking services that compile histories of people's movements. Google says it has never kept any records on the locations of individuals.
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not-sure-if-serious-or-just-plain-stupid-thumb.png
 
jeremyshaw said:
IMO, that is one dumbfuck way for Google to supplement geolocation techniques. Not only does it rely on the initial GPS "guesstimation" of the WiFi AP being accurate, it relies on the WiFi AP not changing location at all, not to mention, the extra handshake requests from every dimwitt's cell phones.
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Well gee, sure glad you told Google whats up. Let's forget that they have tens of thousands of the best engineers on the planet, some dude on the internetz said what they are doing doesn't work. You know, despite it totally fucking working.

1) What GPS "guesstimation"? The SSIDs are mapped to locations via cloud sourcing using a phone's GPS (one of the settings in Android you can turn on, but defaults to off) and street view car's GPS. No "guessing" required

2) If the WiFi AP moves a short distance, it might take a while to update and people would be thrown off by a block or two, if it was the only SSID around. Otherwise, the system is going to be smart enough to reject an AP that the system last recorded in, say, new york if you are currently connected to a cell tower in chicago. MAC addresses are hardly unique, so you don't even need to move a wifi AP for that situation to happen.

3) What extra handshake? You are aware that "GPS" still requires a handshake, right? That would be the "A" part in A-GPS. Besides, one or two packets is hardly worth worrying about.

Oh, whatever. I just moved my WiFi router far away enough from the street, so my laptop couldn't pick up any signal from it (Intel 6250 card, should be good enough metric of this).
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Congrats? Hope you wrapped your house in tin foil, too. Never know when someone will drive by with a cantenna, after all.
 
Monkey God said:
Im trying to remember the last time I read an article about Google that didn't make me angry. People shouldn't have to opt-out of having their physical where-abouts known at all times.
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That's probably because you don't read the actual article, and just read an intentionally wrong and inflammatory summary that is designed to generate page hits. I'd be pissed as all hell if Google was tracking my physical where-abouts at all times. But guess what? They never did that and they aren't doing that. This is only about taking the publicly broadcasted SSID+MAC of a wifi AP and mapping it to a location. An approximate lat/long, not even necessarily a street address. This isn't "tracking", either.

Remember, if someone offers you a service for free, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT they are selling to someone else.
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Uh, no, you are the consumer. Google doesn't want you as a product, just like advertisers don't want you as a product. They want you to buy things. This whole "you are the product" FUD is just idiotic nonsense from people who haven't the foggiest idea how Google or advertisers work. Go open an AdSense account if you really want to see how the thing works.
 
kllrnohj said:
That's probably because you don't read the actual article, and just read an intentionally wrong and inflammatory summary that is designed to generate page hits. I'd be pissed as all hell if Google was tracking my physical where-abouts at all times. But guess what? They never did that and they aren't doing that. This is only about taking the publicly broadcasted SSID+MAC of a wifi AP and mapping it to a location. An approximate lat/long, not even necessarily a street address. This isn't "tracking", either.
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Right, because Google is too stupid to somehow correlate that info with information they've gathered on you from using their search engine and other products. I dont want my search engine and therefore every webpage and every advertiser to know where I live. If that makes me paranoid, so be it.

Uh, no, you are the consumer. Google doesn't want you as a product, just like advertisers don't want you as a product. They want you to buy things. This whole "you are the product" FUD is just idiotic nonsense from people who haven't the foggiest idea how Google or advertisers work. Go open an AdSense account if you really want to see how the thing works.
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Do you even know what targeted advertising is?
 
Unless you use a proxy server to route your internet traffic through a different location, every webpage you visit already knows your location. You public IP is mapped to a service provider, and there are lists of who each set of id's belong to, and what area they service.

And I don't see how they could locate you through this service anyway. Do you often share online your AP's SSID and mac? They're more likely to locate you through the services you use than this harmless bit of technology.

It doesn't make you paranoid, just shows how ill-informed you are.
 
Monkey God said:
Right, because Google is too stupid to somehow correlate that info with information they've gathered on you from using their search engine and other products. I dont want my search engine and therefore every webpage and every advertiser to know where I live. If that makes me paranoid, so be it.
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The only way your wifi AP SSID ends up on the internet is if you post it there. Google isn't "too stupid" so much as it's "impossible". They can't harvest information that literally isn't there, not that they would necessarily want it if it was.

Do you even know what targeted advertising is?
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Of course, do you? Doesn't really seem like it. The point of targeted advertising is to show you, the *CONSUMER*, ads that you are likely to find relevant. Moreover, the location of some box sitting in your house or apartment does not help with that. What possible use would that information have? Seriously, actually think about it for a minute. Put down the tinfoil hat, stop the raging for a minute, and try and think logically. If you are trying to sell a product and you want to limit your ad to only show to your target market, how would knowing the approximate location of a wifi ap they own help with that?
 
If I drive on a public street, write down the list of SSIDs visible to my laptop, then write down my location, I have not violated anyone's privacy.
 
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