Got a phenom II 945...Which mobo

[flippin_waffles]

Good, maybe Deneb will prove once and for all how useless SuperPi and it's legacy code really are! Here's hoping.

 

[Slaxerz]

I was just wondering if AM3 CPU's will work on AM2 mobos that support AM2+ CPU's after BIOS update?

 

[Casper312]

I was just wondering if AM3 CPU's will work on AM2 mobos that support AM2+ CPU's after BIOS update?

They should. I think some are even loading the cpus up without any bios update

 

[ilkhan]

19.4s for 1M superPI at 3.8Ghz?

I just ran that 1M test on my i7 at 3.0Ghz and it took 14.22s.

So, LOL.

From that test at least, looks like Kyle's front page "summary" is correct. AMD is still a joke.

Phenom II shows up in the HardForums. First thread with pics and specs and a second thread with benchmarks. Seems they were for sale as well. Two sites had Phenom II 940 and 920 processors for sale, but they have been pulled. For the record, I would not expect to see any official Phenom II information from [H]ard|OCP until the second week of January, as AMD seems to be making us hold our information till it is worthless as far as any surprises. But I will say this, I don't think we would have anything surprising to show you anyway, unless you actually had high expectations for Phenom II. If you own a socket AM2+ motherboard, I would not throw it out quite yet, but I damn sure would not be purchasing a new one.[/url]

 

[paulieg]

From his pic, it does appear to be an AM3, as it has 1 less pin than the AM2+ chips have.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

19.4s for 1M superPI at 3.8Ghz?

I just ran that 1M test on my i7 at 3.0Ghz and it took 14.22s.

So, LOL.

remember 8 cores on the i7.. the phenom II isnt suppose to compete in any way with the i7.. but even if it gets close.. the 125 dollars less it will cost then the i7 will probably be worth it..not to mention i wont have to spend 800 dollars to build a system to run the i7.. but personally all i care is that it competes with the q9450/9550/9650 and QX9770.. if it does.. then im a happy camper..

 

[sirmonkey1985]

They should. I think some are even loading the cpus up without any bios update

yeah they should work.. but your going to lose a crap load of performance due to the limited hyper transporting.. by limiting your self to 1000mhz(2000HT) instead of 2600MHz(5200HT) that the am2+ and am3 will use.. and i believe AM3 will even go as high as 5600HT..

 

[ilkhan]

remember 8 cores on the i7.. the phenom II isnt suppose to compete in any way with the i7.. but even if it gets close.. the 125 dollars less it will cost then the i7 will probably be worth it..not to mention i wont have to spend 800 dollars to build a system to run the i7.. but personally all i care is that it competes with the q9450/9550/9650 and QX9770.. if it does.. then im a happy camper..

at $250 the PII-920 is NOT $125 less than the i7-920. Considering I got mine for $205 net....
platform is less, but performance is quite a bit less as well. AMD still doesn't have a top end competitor.

And AFAIK superPI is single threaded. And I had a HD movie playing at the same time, as well.

 

[paulieg]

remember 8 cores on the i7.. the phenom II isnt suppose to compete in any way with the i7.. but even if it gets close.. the 125 dollars less it will cost then the i7 will probably be worth it..not to mention i wont have to spend 800 dollars to build a system to run the i7.. but personally all i care is that it competes with the q9450/9550/9650 and QX9770.. if it does.. then im a happy camper..

Agree completely. No delusions here that it will compete with i7, but it should compete with penryn nicely, and the 940 will be priced lower than the q9550. Oh, and I should mention that I will also have a 945 BE ES to play with a day or two after Christmas. I'll be running it in my Biostar GX3.

 

[Elios]

remember 8 cores on the i7.. the phenom II isnt suppose to compete in any way with the i7.. but even if it gets close.. the 125 dollars less it will cost then the i7 will probably be worth it..not to mention i wont have to spend 800 dollars to build a system to run the i7.. but personally all i care is that it competes with the q9450/9550/9650 and QX9770.. if it does.. then im a happy camper..

super pi is single threaded
my 3.6 gets about 16 sec to 1 million and its "only" a dual core

 

[sirmonkey1985]

Agree completely. No delusions here that it will compete with i7, but it should compete with penryn nicely, and the 940 will be priced lower than the q9550. Oh, and I should mention that I will also have a 945 BE ES to play with a day or two after Christmas.

yup i think there is going to be some insane price wars going on in january.. if the accidental postings of the 920/940 on NCIX were correct.. it would put them some where around 225 USD.. and Intel will have nothing at all to compete with that price range..

 

[Elios]

yup i think there is going to be some insane price wars going on in january.. if the accidental postings of the 920/940 on NCIX were correct.. it would put them some where around 225 USD.. and Intel will have nothing at all to compete with that price range..

i7 920 its not much more atm and if you look you can get it around 250

the real question is how much is the whole platform going to be thats were the i7 Got'cha is
since the cheapest mobo for it is 250

if you can get a Phenom II + AM3 mobo for >500 then it might be a deal but if you cant...
well might as well get the i7

 

[sirmonkey1985]

i7 920 its not much more atm and if you look you can get it around 250

the real question is how much is the whole platform going to be thats were the i7 Got'cha is
since the cheapest mobo for it is 250

if you can get a Phenom II + AM3 mobo for >500 then it might be a deal but if you cant...
well might as well get the i7

lol its AMD you know sub 500 is going to be the norm.. even with the phenom I + 790FX when it first came out was well under 500 dollars.. so i wouldnt expect anything different with am3 not to mention AM3 will drive the prices down on DDR3 to the DDR2 pricings.. so you should benefit a lot more going to AM3..

super pi is single threaded
my 3.6 gets about 16 sec to 1 million and its "only" a dual core

ahh.. did not know that.. was wondering why it didnt even load up half of 1 of my cores running it.. most i saw was 70% cpu load on core1 for maybe half a second.. then it sat around 40%

 

[DesertCat]

yeah they should work.. but your going to lose a crap load of performance due to the limited hyper transporting.. by limiting your self to 1000mhz(2000HT) instead of 2600MHz(5200HT) that the am2+ and am3 will use.. and i believe AM3 will even go as high as 5600HT..

I still wish I could see real benchmarks that showed if there is much of a peformance hit in regular operation with a decent graphics card. The only benches I've seen to support the faster hypertransport speeds are those with integrated video (lots of chatter between the CPU and graphics chip since the CPU is doing much of the work).

The question lingers for me whether there really is that much of a peformance hit if people have a real graphic card? Where else could the HT be bottlenecking due to lower speeds?

 

[sirmonkey1985]

I still wish I could see real benchmarks that showed if there is much of a peformance hit in regular operation with a decent graphics card. The only benches I've seen to support the faster hypertransport speeds are those with integrated video (lots of chatter between the CPU and graphics chip since the CPU is doing much of the work).

The question lingers for me whether there really is that much of a peformance hit if people have a real graphic card? Where else could the HT be bottlenecking due to lower speeds?

if you do a lot of stuff with WCG or F@H the higher hypertransport actually makes a significant difference..

 

[cditty]

remember 8 cores on the i7.. the phenom II isnt suppose to compete in any way with the i7.. but even if it gets close.. the 125 dollars less it will cost then the i7 will probably be worth it..not to mention i wont have to spend 800 dollars to build a system to run the i7.. but personally all i care is that it competes with the q9450/9550/9650 and QX9770.. if it does.. then im a happy camper..

Still 4 Cores on the i7. It has hyperthreading, which lets it run 8 threads, but still 4 cores.

 

[sirmonkey1985]

Still 4 Cores on the i7. It has hyperthreading, which lets it run 8 threads, but still 4 cores.

technicalities.. technicalities.. meh who's paying attention.. still the same thing as running 8 cores.. even if 4 of them are only virtual cores.. meh..

 

[Elledan]

technicalities.. technicalities.. meh who's paying attention.. still the same thing as running 8 cores.. even if 4 of them are only virtual cores.. meh..

Sure, just that HT reduces performance in some cases

It kind of sucks that HT is so picky sometimes (or the applications, depending on your perspective). In theory it's a really nice feature.

 

[Atech]

technicalities.. technicalities.. meh who's paying attention.. still the same thing as running 8 cores.. even if 4 of them are only virtual cores.. meh..

No, it still has only 4 cores, but each core can run 2 threads.
It's not like disabling HT make the performance go down 50% now is it?

An 8 core I7 is planned next year, then you see the errors in your stament.

 

[Mr. Bluntman]

19.4s for 1M superPI at 3.8Ghz?

I just ran that 1M test on my i7 at 3.0Ghz and it took 14.22s.

So, LOL.

From that test at least, looks like Kyle's front page "summary" is correct. AMD is still a joke.

Phenom II shows up in the HardForums. First thread with pics and specs and a second thread with benchmarks. Seems they were for sale as well. Two sites had Phenom II 940 and 920 processors for sale, but they have been pulled. For the record, I would not expect to see any official Phenom II information from [H]ard|OCP until the second week of January, as AMD seems to be making us hold our information till it is worthless as far as any surprises. But I will say this, I don't think we would have anything surprising to show you anyway, unless you actually had high expectations for Phenom II. If you own a socket AM2+ motherboard, I would not throw it out quite yet, but I damn sure would not be purchasing a new one.

Then why would Dan say this about Phenom II? (see bottom...)

My bet is that Phenom II won't be anything that will want us Core 2 users to jump ship. It would be nice to be proven wrong though.

 

[Dorsai]

I really wish AMD was more competitive these days. I am a big fan of the old Athlon 64's and still run two of those in my home. But the reality is not good...the image below is from the PC I've been running for quite a while now. It a C2D E8400 @ 3.6 Ghz...my point in posting is not to shoot down anyone's hopes about Phenom 2...just a reality check.

 

[Atech]

19.4s for 1M superPI at 3.8Ghz?

I just ran that 1M test on my i7 at 3.0Ghz and it took 14.22s.

So, LOL.

From that test at least, looks like Kyle's front page "summary" is correct. AMD is still a joke.


Then why would Dan say this about Phenom II? (see bottom...)

My bet is that Phenom II won't be anything that will want us Core 2 users to jump ship. It would be nice to be proven wrong though.

Because most AMD peeps have their hopes up to high?

 

[MrVTEC]

Damn, and now all the hours I spend playing SuperPi and 3DMark won't be any better when I uprade to a Phenom II.

I'm not sure why people are thinking PII is going to crush or compete with an i7. Sure we want it to but if you really thought it was going to do that you're smoking something really strong. If AMD had an i7 killer on their hands you would have already seen them spewing tons of benchmarks and other PR. What AMD has done with Phenom II is closed the gap and got back to a respectable point.

Intel has all but created a niche market for i7 and even came out publicly and said i7 wouldn't do much if anything at all for the normal gamers. Phenom II is going to compete very well in a segment that AMD couldn't even try to get into with the original Phenom. Phenom II should help AMD keep the last AMDroids hanging in there and perhaps win a few back who can't afford/justify the cost to upgrade to an i7. Just a mobo and CPU alone will run you almost $600 throw in some good DDR3 and you're already at almost $1000. Personally I'd rather pass on the 3 FPS the i7 will give me and take a trip to Mexico with the remaining $750 I'll have left.

 

[Atech]

Damn, and now all the hours I spend playing SuperPi and 3DMark won't be any better when I uprade to a Phenom II.

I'm not sure why people are thinking PII is going to crush or compete with an i7. Sure we want it to but if you really thought it was going to do that you're smoking something really strong. If AMD had an i7 killer on their hands you would have already seen them spewing tons of benchmarks and other PR. What AMD has done with Phenom II is closed the gap to the Core 2 and got back to a respectable point in that regard.

Intel has all but created a niche market for i7 and even came out publicly and said i7 wouldn't do much if anything at all for the normal gamers. Phenom II is going to compete very well in a segment that AMD couldn't even try to get into with the original Phenom. Phenom II should help AMD keep the last AMDroids hanging in there and perhaps win a few back who can't afford/justify the cost to upgrade to an i7. Just a mobo and CPU alone will run you almost $600 throw in some good DDR3 and you're already at almost $1000. Personally I'd rather pass on the 3 FPS the i7 will give me and take a trip to Mexico with the remaining $750 I'll have left.

Fixed.

 

[MrVTEC]

Fixed.

So you don't have any respect for AMD because they can't compete with Intel on the high end? Seems pretty bone headed to me. It's not like Intel is exactly targeting the mainstream market with i7 and AMD is aiming right for the mainstream, which I'm sure accounts for a hell of a lot more sales than the ultra high end. A Phenom with a minor IPC increase but a large clock speed increase earns my respect. It will also earn my dollars since apparently Intel isn't interested in them.

 

[Atech]

So you don't have any respect for AMD because they can't compete with Intel on the high end?

Nice strawman fallacy.

Seems pretty bone headed to me.

Fallacies tend to make you lose focus...

It's not like Intel is exactly targeting the mainstream market with i7 and AMD is aiming right for the mainstream, which I'm sure accounts for a hell of a lot more sales than the ultra high end.

Intel has ALWAYS relased the high end first.
Perhaps you should do some googling for what the next socket for I7 is, has of features...and where it's target segment is.

A Phenom with a minor IPC increase but a large clock speed increase earns my respect. It will also earn my dollars since apparently Intel isn't interested in them.

Finally catching up to Core 2 is not something I would respect...but you are putting the cart before the horse now...as I doubt you have any real interest in Intels CPU's.
And I am sure Intel will do fine without you money, most of us buy Intel becuase the price/performance is good...especially the latter.

 

[MrVTEC]

Nice strawman fallacy.

Fallacies tend to make you lose focus...

Intel has ALWAYS relased the high end first.
Perhaps you should do some googling for what the next socket for I7 is, has of features...and where it's target segment is.

Finally catching up to Core 2 is not something I would respect...but you are putting the cart before the horse now...as I doubt you have any real interest in Intels CPU's.
And I am sure Intel will do fine without you money, most of us buy Intel becuase the price/performance is good...especially the latter.

The "correction" you made to my statement led me to believe you had no respect for AMD, it's not my exagerating.

Who cares if Intel has ALWAYS released high end first, the entire platform is what costs too much. $300 for a CPU isn't that bad. It's when you have to purchase everything else to go with the system that costs too much The fact that you bring up the next socket for
i7 shows just how much of a niche Intel is creating for it. Why buy something now for outrageous prices that's going to be EOL in less than a year?

It seems your incorrect assumption of a fallacy on my end made you lose focus of my original statement that AMD is closing the gap, which if PII is faster than PI it's correct. If they are closing the gap with i7 over PI, building a product that could be accepted by OC'ers, and keeping costs down for users, they get my respect. If it takes more than that for a company to earn your respect (I never said dollars) than you are a tru fanboy at heart.

I have owned Intel chips and recommend them to anyone who wants the best, however I myself can take a few FPS to root for a company that employs numerous people I know and hundreds of other people in my community that I do not know. So before you start feeling all high and mighty, you may want to listen to your own words.

 

[Atech]

The "correction" you made to my statement led me to believe you had no respect for AMD, it's not my exagerating.

It's still a strawman fallacy.

Who cares if Intel has ALWAYS released high end first, the entire platform is what costs too much. $300 for a CPU isn't that bad. It's when you have to purchase everything else to go with the system that costs too much The fact that you bring up the next socket for
i7 shows just how much of a niche Intel is creating for it. Why buy something now for outrageous prices that's going to be EOL in less than a year?

You are really clueless arn't you?

http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=i7+socket+1156

What part of HIGH END didn't you understand...please tell me so I can spell it out for you...

It seems your incorrect assumption of a fallacy on my end made you lose focus of my original statement that AMD is closing the gap, which if PII is faster than PI it's correct. If they are closing the gap with i7 over PI, building a product that could be accepted by OC'ers, and keeping costs down for users, they get my respect. If it takes more than that for a company to earn your respect (I never said dollars) than you are a tru fanboy at heart.

No, you used a fallacy, like it or not...shall I spell that for you too?
(You made a false statements regarding my views...the strawman fallacy)
And I am not basing my statments on SuperPI, but all apps/games.

And lying too now?:

A Phenom with a minor IPC increase but a large clock speed increase earns my respect. It will also earn my dollars since apparently Intel isn't interested in them.

I guess Vtech just kicked in eh?

I have owned Intel chips and recommend them to anyone who wants the best, however I myself can take a few FPS to root for a company that employs numerous people I know and hundreds of other people in my community that I do not know. So before you start feeling all high and mighty, you may want to listen to your own words.

Try widing you focus...I am talking gaming, applications, encoding..the whole shabang...Phemon II would have been great...was it released at the same time as Core 2.

Now before you reply, please do some research...I hate wasting time on the uneducated...

 

[Riccochet]

Phenom II is in a great position right now. It's very competitive to what MOST people would buy. Not everyone is in the market for a $1500 i7 system. This thing is cheap and overclocks well. I'll buy one just to play with it. It's an upgrade from the Q6600 in my sig.

 

[MrVTEC]

It's still a strawman fallacy.

You are really clueless arn't you?
http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=i7+socket+1156

What part of HIGH END didn't you understand...please tell me so I can spell it out for you...

No, you used a fallacy, like it or not...shall I spell that for you too?
(You made a false statements regarding my views...the strawman fallacy)
And I am not basing my statments on SuperPI, but all apps/games.

And lying too now?:


I guess Vtech just kicked in eh?

Try widing you focus...I am talking gaming, applications, encoding..the whole shabang...Phemon II would have been great...was it released at the same time as Core 2.

Now before you reply, please do some research...I hate wasting time on the uneducated...

When and where did I lie about anything? I plan on getting a Phenom II and never said otherwise.

The rest of your comments aren't even worth my time in answering. You can't even seem to post a link correctly so I won't get into anything else.

 

[Atech]

When and where did I lie about anything? I plan on getting a Phenom II and never said otherwise.

The rest of your comments aren't even worth my time in answering. You can't even seem to post a link correctly so I won't get into anything else.

You just run off...and don't let the socket 1156 hit you in the ass...

 

[sirmonkey1985]

You just run off...and don't let the socket 1156 hit you in the ass...

got a better idea.. stick to your intel section of the forum.. instead of trying to find every error in some one elses.. theres no law that states we have to buy the fastest stuff.. you dont like to effin bad.. people can choose what they buy and why they buy it.. to bad if you dont like it.. but it gives you no right to sit there trying to make some one look like an idiot.. maybe you should think before you reply to some one.. because your entire last post was a load of crap..

 

[Mr. Bluntman]

Intel seems to be doing something similar with Nehalem as AMD did with K8. Remember sockets 754 and 940?

It doesn't matter really who has the performance crown, you're always going to pay a premium for the bleeding edge though competition is always good for us...

 

[Elios]

Phenom II is in a great position right now. It's very competitive to what MOST people would buy. Not everyone is in the market for a $1500 i7 system. This thing is cheap and overclocks well. I'll buy one just to play with it. It's an upgrade from the Q6600 in my sig.

i wouldnt be to sure of that
and 3.0 is a pretty low OC for a C2

 

[Elios]

got a better idea.. stick to your intel section of the forum.. instead of trying to find every error in some one elses.. theres no law that states we have to buy the fastest stuff.. you dont like to effin bad.. people can choose what they buy and why they buy it.. to bad if you dont like it.. but it gives you no right to sit there trying to make some one look like an idiot.. maybe you should think before you reply to some one.. because your entire last post was a load of crap..

umm this IS HARD OCP not Midrange OCP

the thing is Phenom II IS AMD's High end chip and like it or not it will be compared to the i7 say what you want the C2D i have now is my first Intel rig since the Pentium 120Mhz
and in that time i have had 5 AMD rigs

and we still dont know pricing on the AM3 boards for all you know they could be just as much as some of the i7 ones

and from what Kyle had to say i dont even think Phenom II can stand up to the C2Q clock for clock and im willing to bet even over clocked that the a C2Q will pull away still

 

[Tunabow]

If this chip can do 4ghz on water with ease then I might be interested. Im looking for a 4x4ghz chip with my watercooling setup.

 

[Riccochet]

I'm just going to wait for comparison benches. Personally, I think it'll beat out most of the C2Q's on the market today. Maybe not the QX9770. Hell, if it performs just under the QX9770 it's a great deal price : performance wise. The PII wasn't put on the market to compete with the i7. So why do people insist on comparing it to the i7?

Everyone needs to stop bickering until legit benches are posted. All this "my i7 costs twice as much and performs twice as much" is complete hogwash. So what are you trying to say? I can buy a Civic for $20,000, OR I can buy a BMW for $40,000. Yeah, the BWM performs TWICE as good as that Civic...so? Not everyone WANTS, or can AFFORD, the BWM. See what I'm saying?

All you people living in la-la-land that feel the need to bash everything you DIDN'T buy just to make yourself feel better about your purchase should be beaten with a frozen rubber hose. Would it make you feel better for me to say you're all pogues for not buying a Mercedes? My Mercedes performs better than all your Civic's. You'd have to be a fool to buy a Civic when you can buy a Mercedes! See what I'm saying?

 

[Esstee]

If this chip can do 4ghz on water with ease then I might be interested. Im looking for a 4x4ghz chip with my watercooling setup.

I am also looking into something similar though only 8 way + my existing dual for rendering.
Could you post here if you find some more info on this?

 

[sirmonkey1985]

I am also looking into something similar though only 8 way + my existing dual for rendering.
Could you post here if you find some more info on this?

it should do 4ghz no problem on water.. they did 3.86ghz on air.. so i see no reason why it cant do 4ghz on water.. and they reached 6.3ghz on ln2..

 

[Atech]

Add this to the mix:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=28&threadid=2260139&enterthread=y