Got the Samsung XL30 .NEC 30” Spectraview out soon

[ravsta]

I am new to the forums although I have been reading through them for a while as I have been waiting to purchase a 30” monitor.

The ones I considered were the NEC LCD3090WQXi, Eizo CG301W (Eizo as one of my friends has an older monitor). I saw them both at a show and when talking to the representatives they couldn’t tell me why the EIZO was better then the NEC. The NEC monitor was noticeably better then the EIZO. It was brighter, less bleeding and lots less colour shift (even though the stand was bright) During the show I noticed the Samsung stand and there was the XL30. The display was astonishing, it was bright, the colours were excellent, that prompted me to buy the XL30 when it came out.

If there are any questions, please let me know, I can take some pictures of the screen to show you.

I have pointed a NEC display solutions consultant to these forums regarding the colour bleeds and dead pixels which he wasn’t aware of.

I have noticed the spectra view 3090 brochure is out in some countries. It should be out here in the UK July/August

http://www.froebel-medientechnik.de/upload/downloads_produkte/file_1213000468.pdf

 

[albovin]

If there are any questions, please let me know, I can take some pictures of the screen to show you.

Yes, if you could take pictures of the screen with this test photo from the front and from different angles.
Thank you.

 

[pawstar]

Congrats on your purchase. What timing, I was so close to making up my mind on which monitor to go with ...

Could you please do an overview of any glaring defects that you find? e.g. color instability, instability at low brightness, color uniformity on a plain color image, black crush, color shift, etc. If you have the opportunity to measure input lag, that would be awsome. Thanks.

 

[ravsta]

Yes, if you could take pictures of the screen with this test photo from the front and from different angles.
Thank you.

Here are the images, please bear in mind that i haven't had a chance to calibrate the monitor and the photos were taken with a point and shoot camera. I will take some more on the weekend with a digital slr

http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/p1000713.JPG
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/p1000714.JPG
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/p1000715.JPG

 

[ravsta]

Congrats on your purchase. What timing, I was so close to making up my mind on which monitor to go with ...

Could you please do an overview of any glaring defects that you find? e.g. color instability, instability at low brightness, color uniformity on a plain color image, black crush, color shift, etc. If you have the opportunity to measure input lag, that would be awsome. Thanks.

Thanks, I haven't had a chance to calibrate the monitor however i will get some pictures to you on the weekend. If you could suggest step by step instructions for the tests you require I will post them on the website.

 

[Snowdog]

Shows the typical PVA shift as expected.

 

[visualguy]

ravsta,

What video card are you using? Do you get video noise on the XL30? I get flashing dots and lines, especially when there's a lot of black on the screen. I tried three different nVidia video cards (7900GTX, 8800GT, GTX 280) and it was the same with all of them. All of my four XL30 monitors suffer from this problem. The same video cards work fine with my other (non-XL30) 30" monitors.

The problem goes away when I use a custom resolution to reduce the pixel clock so that the refresh rate is reduced from 60Hz to 50Hz. This doesn't help with games, though, because they revert to the standard timing modes.

Also, what is the manufacturing date of your monitor? It's printed on a label on the back of the monitor. All of mine were made in January, 2008. It was the first batch sold in the US.

 

[Pushead]

http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/p1000713.JPG
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/p1000714.JPG
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/p1000715.JPG

Aye, typical *VA gamma shift.

$4600 for the XL30 versus $2100 for the 3090WQXi is a no brainer IMO....the NEC puts the XL30 to shame.

 

[ravsta]

ravsta,

What video card are you using? Do you get video noise on the XL30? I get flashing dots and lines, especially when there's a lot of black on the screen. I tried three different nVidia video cards (7900GTX, 8800GT, GTX 280) and it was the same with all of them. All of my four XL30 monitors suffer from this problem. The same video cards work fine with my other (non-XL30) 30" monitors.

The problem goes away when I use a custom resolution to reduce the pixel clock so that the refresh rate is reduced from 60Hz to 50Hz. This doesn't help with games, though, because they revert to the standard timing modes.

Also, what is the manufacturing date of your monitor? It's printed on a label on the back of the monitor. All of mine were made in January, 2008. It was the first batch sold in the US.

I think i get some very infrequent dots and flashing, not sure whether its the graphics cards. It has happened only once, will check more. The card i am using is the nvidia 8600GT.

 

[ravsta]

Congrats on your purchase. What timing, I was so close to making up my mind on which monitor to go with ...

Could you please do an overview of any glaring defects that you find? e.g. color instability, instability at low brightness, color uniformity on a plain color image, black crush, color shift, etc. If you have the opportunity to measure input lag, that would be awsome. Thanks.

Here are some more images with a better camera

http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/_mg_5285.jpg
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/_mg_5286.jpg
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/_mg_5287.jpg
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/_mg_5288.jpg
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/_mg_5289.jpg
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/_mg_5290.jpg
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/_mg_5291.jpg
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/_mg_5292.jpg
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/_mg_5293.jpg
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/_mg_5294.jpg
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/_mg_5295.jpg
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/_mg_5296.jpg


The brightness and uniformity is perfect. The colours are bright, you do get colour shift but when sitting in front of the monitor it isn't too bad.

One issue i have is the software drivers for Vista 64 for the eye 2 doesn't seem to load up, i will try and find a solution.

I am happy with the monitor, if there are any tests you can suggest please let me know.

 

[Biges]

Aye, typical *VA gamma shift.

$4600 for the XL30 versus $2100 for the 3090WQXi is a no brainer IMO....the NEC puts the XL30 to shame.

NEC H-IPS with polarizer is of course better then S-PVA in Samsung or Eizo

 

[Biges]

Here are the images, please bear in mind that i haven't had a chance to calibrate the monitor and the photos were taken with a point and shoot camera. I will take some more on the weekend with a digital slr

http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/p1000713.JPG
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/p1000714.JPG
http://www.reminiscenceuk.com/temp/xl30/p1000715.JPG

Thanks!

 

[pawstar]

I am happy with the monitor, if there are any tests you can suggest please let me know.

Thanks for work so far.

Would you by any chance have access to a crt? If so, could you measure the input lag by taking a pic of the screens running in clone mode of a counter eg. http://tft.vanity.dk/ There are also some nice tests on that page for different shades, banding tests - probably hard to photograph it, but your comments would be appreciated.

If you could do a close-up macro shot of some text at various sizes (same page is fine).

Also, when you turn down the brightness to the minimum, is the back light stable or do you see any shimmering/flickering?

 

[albovin]

The brightness and uniformity is perfect. The colours are bright, you do get colour shift but when sitting in front of the monitor it isn't too bad.

One issue i have is the software drivers for Vista 64 for the eye 2 doesn't seem to load up, i will try and find a solution.

I am happy with the monitor, if there are any tests you can suggest please let me know.

Thank you very much for the photos.

The brightness and uniformity is perfect.

Basing on your pictures, backlight uniformity of this unit seems to be very good for a black colour sample, the uniformity of white is not that good (photo #5285). If you open #5285 in Photoshop and move Navigator window over it, you will easily notice brightness and colour tint fluctuation. Brightness unevenness has a sort of vertical strip pattern closer to the right hand side.
Colorcomp feature from NEC could have helped in this case.
Also I see two spots but I think those spots happened to be on your camera.

you do get colour shift but when sitting in front of the monitor it isn't too bad

Your photos show again (this time finally) that the panel technology is much more important for the image quality than the backlight.
technology.
Please look at this.
We can see three negative effects here.
1. Black crush (loss of details in dark areas) from the front view.
2. Colorshift (from any point of view the image look different in different parts of the screen)
3. Pale/yellowish tint of white or grey from an angle view. Looks like panel uniformity problem while in fact this is PVA technology problem.

Potential LED BL advantages are useless when paired with a panel with limited colour reproduction quality.

if there are any tests you can suggest please let me know

You can do a lot.
These are examples to follow If you wish.
Example #1
Example #2
The last example is even closer to XL30 as the Dell 2408 has similar color gamut and very similar panel, just smaller.

Once again thank you for the pictures.

 

[pawstar]

Basing on your pictures, backlight uniformity of this unit seems to be very good for a black colour sample, the uniformity of white is not that good (photo #5285). If you open #5285 in Photoshop and move Navigator window over it, you will easily notice brightness and colour tint fluctuation. Brightness unevenness has a sort of vertical strip pattern closer to the right hand side.
Colorcomp feature from NEC could have helped in this case.
Also I see two spots but I think those spots happened to be on your camera.

There is some lens vigneting in the image which is skewing the results.

While I agree that there are uniformity & vetical banding issues (quite vividly visible when the neutral color is cropped and autolevels run), I would say they are far less pronounced compared n0xlf's image of the NEC 30" panel, which doesn't need any photoshop enhancements to see the uniformity problems.

 

[visualguy]

I think i get some very infrequent dots and flashing, not sure whether its the graphics cards. It has happened only once, will check more. The card i am using is the nvidia 8600GT.

This is what bothers me the most about the XL30 - seems like a defect. I plan to try an ATI Radeon card next just in case it has a more robust DVI signal that doesn't trigger this problem with the XL30.

 

[visualguy]

I just tried a Radeon 4870 with my XL30 monitors, and got the same flashing lines and dots that I see when using nVidia cards with this monitor. It must be a monitor defect. It's amazing that the DVI signal integrity is screwed up in such an expensive monitor!

 

[zurv]

yeah.. a little necro-thread action

i just got the LaCie 730 and i too randomly get the dot line issues. (nvidia gtx260)
did you guy find a "fix" for it? didn't ATI work? (ugh.. i don't want to use ATI)

Thanks

 

[sedluk]

I bought an XL30 about 6 months ago. There are two problems with the monitor. The Natural Color Expert will not work with Vista 64 and I doubt it will ever work. I calibrate my with a standard eye1 display2. And then there is the signal noise. I have a 9500GT and every time I update the Nvidia driver is looks like they are changing the timings. And there is a bug in the last few version of the drivers that will give you a "Custom mode test failed" if you try a custom timing. The signal noise is intermittent and you either see it or you don't , if you do notice it you can turn the monitor off/on and most of the time that fixes it. It seems odd that if you turn the monitor off/on it will fix it. I think it is a design problem with all of the XL30.

Both issues are not what you would expect from a $4,000 monitor.

As far as albovin's issues with the panel technology, I think he a kook. Others have described a very subtle shift in shadow detail if you view the monitor for an angle. It is not really a color shift but more of a black crush shift. I only have one display connected to my machine. If you will have two or more monitors and you will be viewing the monitor from an angle it will be a subtle. If you are like most people and have only one 30" monitor it is a complete non-issue and I will never understand why he gets his panties in such a knot over the panel technology.

The XL30 does have issues but panel technology is not one of them.

 

[Cyant]

Thanks for work so far.

Would you by any chance have access to a crt? If so, could you measure the input lag by taking a pic of the screens running in clone mode of a counter eg. http://tft.vanity.dk/ There are also some nice tests on that page for different shades, banding tests - probably hard to photograph it, but your comments would be appreciated.

If you could do a close-up macro shot of some text at various sizes (same page is fine).

Also, when you turn down the brightness to the minimum, is the back light stable or do you see any shimmering/flickering?

Good luck finding a CRT with 2560x1600 resolution to be able to measure properly... Running non native res on a LCD degrade response time quite a bit.

 

[albovin]

Both issues are not what you would expect from a $4,000 monitor.

As far as albovin's issues with the panel technology, I think he a kook. Others have described a very subtle shift in shadow detail if you view the monitor for an angle. It is not really a color shift but more of a black crush shift.

ravsta's links are not valid so I repost his photos.

30" Samsung XL30 PVA Colorshift

 

[sedluk]

albovin,

If I do try to see the effect of the black crush shift, I first need to find an appropriate picture. The effects are so subtle that most pictures will not show the effect. The next thing that is needed is perfect lighting in your room. If you have a window or two in your room, you better forget it. The subtle differences in glare even on a cloudy day without any direct sunlight will overpower the "colorshift".

Then you will need to move your head to the side so that you are viewing the image at a sharp angle.

The effect when you see it is very subtle. If would be difficult to photograph. The link that you provided does not represent the effect. It is clear to anyone familiar with photography that the exposures are different in the two views. I do not know if this was intentional.

Regardless, who on earth would work with their computer in the uncomfortable position of standing to the right of your monitor and looking both down and to the left. Completely ridiculous.

I sit in front of my monitor while editing pictures. I have never found the need to stand and look down a few feet to the side of my monitor while proofing pictures.

I think you are a kook.

 

[albovin]

albovin,

If I do try to see the effect of the black crush shift, I first need to find an appropriate picture. The effects are so subtle that most pictures will not show the effect. The next thing that is needed is perfect lighting in your room. If you have a window or two in your room, you better forget it. The subtle differences in glare even on a cloudy day without any direct sunlight will overpower the "colorshift".

Then you will need to move your head to the side so that you are viewing the image at a sharp angle.

The effect when you see it is very subtle. If would be difficult to photograph. The link that you provided does not represent the effect. It is clear to anyone familiar with photography that the exposures are different in the two views. I do not know if this was intentional.

Regardless, who on earth would work with their computer in the uncomfortable position of standing to the right of your monitor and looking both down and to the left. Completely ridiculous.

I sit in front of my monitor while editing pictures. I have never found the need to stand and look down a few feet to the side of my monitor while proofing pictures.

I think you are a kook.

Sorry, I am not willing to debate LCD technology basics any more.
Glad to know that you are satisfied with your monitor.
Thanks.

 

[visualguy]

I bought an XL30 about 6 months ago. There are two problems with the monitor. The Natural Color Expert will not work with Vista 64 and I doubt it will ever work. I calibrate my with a standard eye1 display2. And then there is the signal noise. I have a 9500GT and every time I update the Nvidia driver is looks like they are changing the timings. And there is a bug in the last few version of the drivers that will give you a "Custom mode test failed" if you try a custom timing. The signal noise is intermittent and you either see it or you don't , if you do notice it you can turn the monitor off/on and most of the time that fixes it. It seems odd that if you turn the monitor off/on it will fix it. I think it is a design problem with all of the XL30.

Both issues are not what you would expect from a $4,000 monitor.

As far as albovin's issues with the panel technology, I think he a kook. Others have described a very subtle shift in shadow detail if you view the monitor for an angle. It is not really a color shift but more of a black crush shift. I only have one display connected to my machine. If you will have two or more monitors and you will be viewing the monitor from an angle it will be a subtle. If you are like most people and have only one 30" monitor it is a complete non-issue and I will never understand why he gets his panties in such a knot over the panel technology.

The XL30 does have issues but panel technology is not one of them.

Wow - I'm amazed that Samsung never fixed the signal integrity/video noise problem, and that even the LaCie monitor suffers from it.

I agree that PVA gamma shift isn't a significant issue. Some people feel very strongly about it. I respect their opinion even though I don't share it.

A more significant deficiency of the 30" Samsung panel is that text is slightly (but noticeably) less sharp than on the 30" LG panels. I don't think this is inherent in the PVA technology - I have Samsung PVA LCDs with perfectly sharp text, but for some reason their 30" panel has this problem with slightly fuzzy text.