[H] Holiday System Guide - 2005

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I'd go with:

Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Case 450Watt - $92
BenQ DW1640 - $40
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 Hard Drive - OEM - $102.5
Logitech G5 Laser - $54
Microsoft Curve 2000 B2L-00002 Keyboard - $20
OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR400 Unbuffered Platinum - $243
ABIT KN8 SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail - $110
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Retail - $322
eVGA 256-P2-N516 Geforce 7800GT 256MB - $300

Yeah, I know it comes up to about 1280 (80 over the 1200.00) and there is only 1 hard disk but i get a keyboard, mouse and and a whole heap more eye canday. I think I could live with 10 seconds more load time for better IQ, not to mention the possible OC.
For an OS, Why not go with Windows 64? Most new games work with it and most hardware in the guide has okay 64 bit drivers.
 
trek554 said:
no OS as usual. why do have have two DIFFERENT video cards listed?
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I'm a college student - I get XP SP2 for 5 bucks a pop through my campus licensing dept so that tends to dull my awareness of such things...

You have to get the $369 eVGA 7800GT to get the free mobo, for the second card I chose the cheapest eVGA 7800GT available that was clocked at or above the other card in memory and core (there is no problem with running two different brands of cards, much less models)...
 
I recently went through this excercize for a friend.... he is upgrading an existing computer (and hence has a monitor/keyboard/mouse/case/cdrom drive). He wanted me to price him an "all out" system and a "really good" system.

Here's what I came up with (from newegg):

"Huge Bitch System":
###################
DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-DR Expert Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: LP[UT]nF4 SLI-DR Exp
$199.00

2xBFG Tech BFGR78512GTXOC Geforce 7800GTX 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
Model #: BFGR78512GTXOC
2x$749.00 = $1,498.00

SeaSonic S12-600 ATX12V 600W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: S12-600
$159.00

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA4800CDBOX - Retail
Model #: ADA4800CDBOX
$787.00

mushkin eXtreme Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 500 (PC 4000) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model 991483 - Retail
Model #: 991483
$239.00

Maxtor MaXLine III 7L300S0 300GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: 7L300S0
$125.00

Creative SOUND BLASTER X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS 8 (7.1) Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
Model #: 70SB046600002
$270.00

Total: $3,277.00
####################

An here's the "Really Good" system:

#############
ASUS A8N-SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: A8N-SLI
$120.99

2x XFX PVT70GUDF7 Geforce 7800GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
2x $309.00 = $618.00

ENERMAX Whisper II EG565P-VE FMA(24P) ATX12V 535W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: EG565P-VE FMA(24P)
$88.99

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3500BPBOX - Retail
Model #: ADA3500BPBOX
$201.00

CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model VS1GBKIT400 - Retail
Model #: VS1GBKIT400
$82.00

Maxtor MaXLine III 7L300S0 300GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: 7L300S0
$123.99

Total: $1,234.97
#####################

Only thing I would really change is possibly the cpu.... but I was trying to get him a 7800 SLI system for around $1200.... so that's where the CPU landed.

Friedmud
 
I really can't imaging not getting dual core when the price difference is so small and the performance hit in games is negligible. The enjoyability and usefulness of the system is just so much greater with dual core.

Also, 2 gb ram is necessary for more and more games, 500gb hard drive is a little of an overkill. Go for 1 or 2 smaller sata drive and get a dirt cheap ide for data, put the extra money into more ram.

Other than that I like the choices.
 
The lack of dual core was suprising, but you did add a link there in the end, so all is well

Other than that, a good guide
 
Great guide. I only thing I didn't like was the addition of speakers and monitor to basically the same rig going from $1200 to $2000. I would have gone 2GB Ram and maybe a 7800GTX 512MB in the $2000 guide. I mean a full rig at both price points should either both include a monitor and speakers or not, it's a different "full rig" setup.

On a side note...I know these guides include a mobo with a compatible vid card but what about upgrading just a vid card. I need an AGP card. I'm running a 3.2 P4 (478), 1GB Corsair RAM, and am looking at the Sapphire ATI 9600XT Ultimate for $95 or the XFX 6600GT for $146 (same as in the upgrade guide only AGP). Will I see much difference in spending the extra $50 for the XFX 6600GT on this system? I tend to favor Nvidia but will probably upgrade the whole system within the next year and don't want waste $50 if I don't have to.
 
The RAID 0 plug was, in my opinion, irresponsible, since none of the critical drawbacks were discussed. Thousands of new enthusiasts read that guide, yet there was no mention of the increased risk of data loss and practically unrecoverable data. The money saved from buying that second drive could go towards a dual core processor or upgraded videocard, both of which would provide much more tangible system-wide performance improvements.

For the $1200 system, too much money was devoted to deluxe SLI motherboards, an overkill power supply, and a premium optical drive. The AMD system's processor selection was certainly odd, because cheaper processors could have been substituted and overclocked instead of this higher-end selection for a clearly budget system. Same goes with the Intel system. The SLI idea was unrealistic in my opinion. One would do better two years from now if they just replaced the single videocard with a similarly-priced new part than to add a second two-year-old 6800GS. Foregoing SLI also saves money on the motherboard and power supply.

All of the points brought up in the $1200 system apply in the $2000 system. The processor should be a dual core, not high-end single core, for a $2000 budget. The X2 3800+ or Opteron 165 (Socket 939) fits the bill. SLI at a later date won't provide as much of a boost as an upgraded videocard, especially after two years or more.
 
xonik said:
The RAID 0 plug was, in my opinion, irresponsible, since none of the critical drawbacks were discussed. Thousands of new enthusiasts read that guide, yet there was no mention of the increased risk of data loss and practically unrecoverable data. The money saved from buying that second drive could go towards a dual core processor or upgraded videocard, both of which would provide much more tangible system-wide performance improvements.
Click to expand...
They said you have the option of going RAID-0. A lot of us (myself included) buy multiple drives and run them separately. Look at my rig, I've got one Raptor with OS and pageing file, one Raptop with games, and one large movie/music drive.

xonik said:
For the $1200 system, too much money was devoted to deluxe SLI motherboards, an overkill power supply, and a premium optical drive.
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I don't mind splurging a little to make sure it works for sure. I would rather spend an extra $30 on a decent brand motherboard (read: ASUS, ABIT) and have it work 24/7 instead of skimping on a cheaper brand (read: Gigabyte, MSI, DFI) and risk having it not work.

xonik said:
The SLI idea was unrealistic in my opinion. One would do better two years from now if they just replaced the single videocard with a similarly-priced new part than to add a second two-year-old 6800GS. Foregoing SLI also saves money on the motherboard and power supply.
Click to expand...
Some of us only get to upgrade every few years. Look at myself, I haven't had a decent rig in over 5 years. For those like me, the option of adding a second video card down the road for $100-$200 is a LOT more economic than having to buy a new $400 card. Foregoing SLI wouldn't have saved much money. The difference between an Ultra and SLI board anymore is a couple of dollars, lots of people buy SLI boards nowadays just to have the extra toys (extra ethernet, enhanced RAID, etc), not for SLI support. And the PSU argument? Please, the PSU they mentioned was $90. Like I said "SLI-certified" parts no longer carry a premium like they once did (Remember the days when the A8N-SLI was $250 and the only PSU tough enough to run it was the PCP&C 510?).
 
good work on the system guide now can we have a more broke version like 300 - 500 casue right now im thinking about a cheep system using intergraded video (talk like this wil prolly get me lynched here) either the geforce 6150 or the ati equivelant this would keep the prices down till a card can be added in the future
 
sac_tagg said:
They said you have the option of going RAID-0. A lot of us (myself included) buy multiple drives and run them separately. Look at my rig, I've got one Raptor with OS and pageing file, one Raptop with games, and one large movie/music drive.
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Yes, but two drives is a luxury, particularly for the $1200 system. The writer/editor should have taken the initiative to explain the pros and cons of the various two-drive setups, at minimum.
I don't mind splurging a little to make sure it works for sure. I would rather spend an extra $30 on a decent brand motherboard (read: ASUS, ABIT) and have it work 24/7 instead of skimping on a cheaper brand (read: Gigabyte, MSI, DFI) and risk having it not work.
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I'm not sure you understand. They can go right ahead and get a decent brand board, but buying an SLI board is unnecessary, especially for the $1200 system. Going with a preferred brand, non-SLI board saves at least $20, maybe more. For the $2000 system this isn't a big deal, though. I can see why someone would buy the deluxe package regardless of whether they use the SLI.
Some of us only get to upgrade every few years. Look at myself, I haven't had a decent rig in over 5 years. For those like me, the option of adding a second video card down the road for $100-$200 is a LOT more economic than having to buy a new $400 card.
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Why is that more economical? I'm not saying that you should buy a $400 videocard. Let's say you upgrade two years after you build the system. Why buy two-year-old tech and run in SLI, when you can upgrade to the latest $200 videocard which performs much better than the old SLI configuration? The longer you wait to upgrade, the less appealing that SLI configuration is going to be.
 
_Korruption_ said:
Curious, why not pick the 600-series for the P4 boxes? An extra meg of cache, runs cooler/quieter, and has the full 64-bit extensions (the 5x0J chips do have 64-bit, do they?). I myself would pick something from the 600-series if I was putting something together.
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Did anyone answer this question? I don't see any benefit of a 500 series CPU over 600 series.
 
I agree with the assessment that $500 upgrrade doesnt get you as far this year as it did last year. I'm just looking into maybe upgrading, but I'm stuck with having to lay out $$$$ because I need to move from S478/AGP/DDR to S775/DDR2/PCIE or just S939/PCIE if I went AMD (which looks nice since I wouldn't have to buy new RAM). Even a new AMD mobo (non-SLI), x3800, and a 6600GT is still a big chunk of change, especially for someone who is used to replacing 1-2 parts at a time.
 
friedmud said:
DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-DR Expert Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: LP[UT]nF4 SLI-DR Exp
$199.00
......
SeaSonic S12-600 ATX12V 600W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: S12-600
$159.00
Click to expand...
Hey you do got a nice rig going there, however there is a known issue between that Motherboard and Powersupply, DFI is aware and says "get a different PSU".. everything is great.. just change the PSU if your recommending to your friend.

As far as what [H]ard has recommended here.. they are decent setups.. but I also think the first recommendations should have been the X2's. I've been using that Antec 550w they recommend, and its been powering my overclocked SLI system with juice to spare.

I do find it interesting that there is not a whole lot of buzz in the forums about the hardware which was suggested. I really havn't heard anybody recommending Corsair ram (in the forums) for quite some time... (it's usualy OCZ,Crucial,Gskill). I honestly thought I would see some more fimilar hardware in this buying guide, (and I do realize [H]ard has always recommended Corsair). Regardless they are recommending from their expeirences(hopefully) and i'm sure these systems will be great for the average do-it-yourselfer.
 
As was said above (focusing on the AMD $1200 full build here), using the SLI-premium is a bit irresponsable. The lifetime price drops of a card dont make it worth buying a second for SLI voer selling the old card and buying a new gen card. Just not worth it. Not going with a X2 was slightly irresponsable. You can see what Im assembling (this weekend hopefully), and it makes for a more potent system.

I admit the total with optical and HDDs would be a bit over the $1200 limit, but most enthusiests (sp) upgrade those components more than a full system build timelines. Going with dual HDDs is a good plan, but making them both large and moderately fast as opposed to getting a raptor + storage drive doesn't make any sense.
 
GLSauron said:
Going with dual HDDs is a good plan, but making them both large and moderately fast as opposed to getting a raptor + storage drive doesn't make any sense.
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Check again, the WD2500KS is comparable to a Raptor in most desktop applications due to its high areal density and 16 MB of onboard cache.
 
Now I have a comment. The TT Soprano case seems to be questionable. Two of the three reviewers that purchased this case complained about the “bar” at the top which makes PSU installation difficult. Also, the “toolless” aspect of this case seems to be low quality based on several reviewers comments. Did you guys actually build systems with these components or did you just pick parts that have worked well in other builds? I was sold on this case because it’s sturdy and the finish is nice, however, if it’s not user friendly there are better choices out there.
 
Update - ah shit, here we go again. Like I said in my previous post, did you guys actually build systems with these parts? Apparently there is a real problem with the ASUS A8N-SLI Premium POSTing. Many people who own this board have reported this problem. Maybe it’s one of those disinformation things started by a competitor, but I guarantee you POST errors are something I’m not willing to deal with on a fresh system. Any thoughts on this one?

BTW – I hope I don’t appear too critical here. Thing is, the guide was put up as a guide for those of us who expect [H]OCP to give us real info we can use to make informed decisions about spending our hard-earned bucks. Though I haven’t been a forum member long, the fact is, I’ve been reading/using [H]OCP for years as a trusted site to give accurate info. I hope it isn’t turning into a conduit for NewEgg…
 
The fact of the matter is that we have personal experience with all components used in this build besides the case. The fact of the matter is that with google you can find complaints about any and all parts used in this build or any other. I personal experience with the components used here has been good.

So all in all, if you want to sit around all day and shoot holes in our build and use public postings on forums for your "proof" of problems, well, you have fun doing that as you can certainly spend a lot of time doing that.

I stand behind our picks. Do you find a pick that you consider better? I am sure you do as we all have different opinions. Thanks for you thoughts, this is one of the reasons we LINKED THIS THREAD, so poeple could see others' ideas on this subject.
 
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