HDTV Info

BobSutan

[H]F Junkie
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I did some research tonight on what's out there for HDTV and I was wondering if I've gotten all the key points. From what I've gathered, this is what I've come up with:

First off, the basics:
http://www.hdtvgalaxy.com/hdtvbasics.php

There are two prevaling versions of HDTV. 768p and 1080i. As the link above explains they are different resolutions that a TV signal can be broadcasted at. That's all there is to it. Naturally the higher the resolution the better the image (well, more or less).


Secondly, the 1080p vs 1080i debate:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/reality.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6361600-1.html?tag=disc

Put simply 1080p is not viable due to the limited bandwidth involved with today's HDTV signals and what the content industry can distribute.


Expectations:
After all is said and done 1080i is the highest resolution you should be looking for, espcially for an LCD and Plasma HDTV. However, most presentations are done at 768p because of limited broadcasting bandwidth anyway. Therefore if you got a good old 768p HDTV you'll be good to go for 90% of the HD that's out there. Of course you could get the 1080i and future-proof yourself as most sets can display the 768p signal just fine with a good resizer/re-interlacer. Plus with the 1080i those HD-DVDs will look great once they become more widespread and affordable. Then again, the same could be said for 1080p which HD-DVDs are supposedly going to run natively. Barring the 1080p native resolution of HD-DVD, the 1080i will be worth it with the new HD-DVDs because the resolution is at least the same size, despite having a lesser smoothness. Of course if you're getting an LCD or Plasma the 1080i will get
converted to progressive scan anyway as that's how they display the picture (FYI, the "p" in 1080p stands for progressive scan). In short, until the age of HD-DVD arrives you could probably get a 768p set and not notice the difference in quality for most mainstream media (especially if you have Comcast's crappy HD that is compressed to hell and back).


Interfaces:
HDTV has sought to rely on one master interface: HDMI.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/

HDMI is set to replace the DVI interface. DVI interfaces are most commondly found connecting PCs to LCD monitors.


Now the problems with HDTV and where this is all headed IMO:
http://www.drmblog.com/index.php?/archives/80_DTV_+_HDTV_+_HDMI_+_HDCP_+_DVI__BAD_DRM.html

To sum it all up, HDCP is a mechanism that requires all the hardware to be compliant or your HD content will be crippled. Its gonna suck to find out that after spending thousands of dollards that your movies look just as good as they did on your old set with the DVD player. And that's not even counting the myriad of restrictions that can be dicated to you after you purchaced your own copies of the media.

Who even thinks this stuff up anyway? The DRM we're already seeing today is analogous to GM shutting off your car because you didn't put in the $10/gallon gas they wanted you to buy from the dealership. That's a dumb analogy, but that's the level of stupidity that the content industry has taken things to with Digital Restrictions Management. When they say that they want to protect their rights, all that means is that they want their cake and eat it to, which is to say they want to sell you a copy and then turn around and dictate how you use it. And this is just the start. They've already said that future HD DVD standards not be copyable, even though you have the legal right to make backups of anything you buy. What DRM amounts to is this: the studio that sold you the CD or DVD will come home with you and tell you what you can and cannot do with that CD or DVD, plain and simple. Don't believe me? Next time you play a DVD ask yourself why you can't skip the FBI warning or some studios' commercials (i.e. Disney). Think about it.

My advice when it comes to any form of DRM is this: stay far, far, far away from it. DRM is essentially a version of spyway/crippleware and in some cases has included viruses and trojan horses. And NEVER put a DRM'd CD or DVD into a computer. You may end up losing the whole thing due to data corruption or infection like people did with Sony CDs a few months back.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on it. Did I get anythign off the mark? I may have strayed off into left field a bit with the DRM crap, but that shit really gets under my skin.
 
IMHO 720p > 1080i (and yes its 720p not 768p).

Thats what we have (sony a10) and the integrated scaler is fantastic. You wouldn't even notice a difference if the tv didnt tell what the input format was. And even though our set is 50" the resolution is high enough for our tastes.

And yes, the DRM is a tad rediculous. Supposedly on the first batch of HD-DVDs and BR-DVDs the token that tells the player to downrez the picture when using analog (read: rippable) outputs is absent. Which means that you dont need HDMI to watch high def video discs. Of course the studios reserve the right to turn on said protection when and if copying those discs become viable in the mainstream.

All in all, HDTV is awesome. Plus our set has a VGA input....nothing like 50" widescreen HL2 deathmatches at 1280x768 :D
 
Put simply 1080p is not viable due to the limited bandwidth involved with today's HDTV signals and what the content industry can distribute.

The content industry may have issues distributing this type of bandwidth to support 1080P res, however HD-DVD and Blue Ray discs will not. Therefore, I still feel it would be beneficial to purchase a set that supports this resolution because mainstream HD or Blue Ray is right around the corner.
 
BobSutan said:
Did I get anythign off the mark?
I've never heard it referred to as 768p... It's actually 720p. For some random reaason a lot of LCD/Plasma are set to 1280x768 though.
 
I completely disagree that 720p is better than 1080i. Maybe for a PC, as small text doesn't work well interlaced, but with movies and TV, 1080i looks much better.
 
xp3nd4bl3 said:
I completely disagree that 720p is better than 1080i. Maybe for a PC, as small text doesn't work well interlaced, but with movies and TV, 1080i looks much better.
it's hard to say "much better" as it varies from film to film. I have seen 720p content that looks better than 1080i and vice versa. And as for 720p being better for a PC, this is the HTPC forum ;)

but I say screw it all and get a 1080p set. hd-dvd, bluray, HTPC, and next gen gaming consoles will all use it.
 
Keetha said:
I've never heard it referred to as 768p... It's actually 720p. For some random reaason a lot of LCD/Plasma are set to 1280x768 though.

Either that's why I wrote 768, or it was because I posted it at 3AM. The latter might also account for how this made it into the HTPC forum when I thought I'd posted to the Photography and Video forum. TVs fall under video, right?

As for 1080p being the native display for HD-DVD (and BR), the fact that LCD and Plasma screens are effectively progressive display technologies offsets the needs for 1080p. As it was explained to me, and how I understood the stuff I found online, a 1080i LCD or Plasma HDTV will give you the best of both worlds without having to ante up for the actual 1080p HDTV (which would tack on up to an additional $1000 over 1080i).Now if you were talking about a CRT or DLP then maybe the 1080p would be required to get the full effect.
 
Are you actually looking to buy a TV or just doing reserach for fun or for a paper?
 
I am the mastermind behind this HDCP thread over in the video card section.
It is an up-to-the-day list of all the video cards that are HDCP ready. So check it out, and if you have any
cards to add please do.
 
Keetha said:
Are you actually looking to buy a TV or just doing reserach for fun or for a paper?

Both. I'm looking to buy this fall as a family xmas present and I'm tired of being ignorant of the tech. There's something terribly wrong when your 58 year old dad know more about a technology than a 29 year old megageek like me :cool:
 
Well, I'd go over the AVS forums and spend about.... 30 hours reading posts in their TV specific sections first to find a TV. Then you'll wanna read about all the other technologies. I personally ended up with a Samsung DLP HL-S5687W, just bought it last week.

It took me 6 months to settle on a TV, and the more I learned, the more I realized I needed to learn more and didn't know much.
 
Keetha said:
It took me 6 months to settle on a TV, and the more I learned, the more I realized I needed to learn more and didn't know much.

That's why I'm starting early :)

I also found another great source of info on 1080p.
 
My HDTV choice.

I can find it for about $2,500.00 online and it is a brand new model. Sharp does not even list it on their US
site yet. I would like to get it from Best Buy in late 2006 or early 2007 so I can get a warranty I trust.

I plan on using it as a PC gaming monitor (DVI), PS3 (HDMI) and after I get a raise I might subscribe
to digital cable.

EDIT

Woops. They still do not list it on the US site but it is in their 2006 pdf brochure on their US website.
2006 Sharp Brochure
 
BobSutan said:
As for 1080p being the native display for HD-DVD (and BR), the fact that LCD and Plasma screens are effectively progressive display technologies offsets the needs for 1080p. As it was explained to me, and how I understood the stuff I found online, a 1080i LCD or Plasma HDTV will give you the best of both worlds without having to ante up for the actual 1080p HDTV (which would tack on up to an additional $1000 over 1080i).Now if you were talking about a CRT or DLP then maybe the 1080p would be required to get the full effect.


DLP is also natively progressive, and thee are NO LCD/DLP/Plasma display that is native 1080i, some are now 1080p native but none are 1080i. 1080p will obviously provide more resolution than 720p. The general consensous is that 720p will provide better PQ on high movement images (such as sports) and 1080i provides better PQ for still pictures or non-high movement images. 1080p provides the added resoltion over 720p and the motion enhancements over 1080i.

The choice between what technology you go with is more personal preferance than anything except if you want something flat to hang on a wall then its either LCD or Plasma.
 
mentok1982 said:
My HDTV choice.

I can find it for about $2,500.00 online and it is a brand new model. Sharp does not even list it on their US
site yet. I would like to get it from Best Buy in late 2006 or early 2007 so I can get a warranty I trust.

I plan on using it as a PC gaming monitor (DVI), PS3 (HDMI) and after I get a raise I might subscribe
to digital cable.

EDIT

Woops. They still do not list it on the US site but it is in their 2006 pdf brochure on their US website.
2006 Sharp Brochure

Bwaaaa.... LC-57D90U... me want....

I always knew I had good taste, but damn! $13,000???!!! Gonna just have to wait a while for something like that.
 
BobSutan said:
Bwaaaa.... LC-57D90U... me want....

I always knew I had good taste, but damn! $13,000???!!! Gonna just have to wait a while for something like that.

A word of caution. Over at the AVS forums a Sharp rep (Mike53) has stated that the only HDTV in
the 90U series that can accept a 1080p signal (PS3 for example) is the 37" model.

Linkage.
Check out posts 1145 and 1160.
 
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