Help buying cheap gaming machine

S

sr1230nx

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
74
Greetings and Solutions!

Understanding this is mundane stuff for the folks here, basically we need help buying an inexpensive gaming machine. If we need to go somewhere else just say and we’ll vamoose.

Problem: We need an upgrade from our aging AMD Athlon XP 3200 (2200MHz) with 1024 DDR SDRAM and Crucial AGP/ATI Radeon 9600 (PS 250W), however we’re both “lite” on computer savvy. We have a 22” Samsung SyncMaster 216BW and Logitech MX620 mouse. The extra 512 RAM and ATI Radeon were all we’ve ever done inside a computer other than cleaning.

Usage Requirements: Micosoft Office 2007, Photoshop Elements, some home video editing with Premier Elements, E-mail, and mainstream gaming & therefore would like a decent video card to run Call of Duty & Battlefield type stuff decently.

Budget: $500 TO $1,000 range. The further toward the upper end the longer we’ll spread the purchase out over time to “ease” it into our slender budget.

What we think we know: We believe we want an Nvidia 8800GT card but we’re lost as to the requirements for the remainder of the computer, e.g., motherboard (dual channel?) & CPU, DDR2 Ram Speed, sound, cooling etc. Our best guess is that we should have a minimum 500W PS, minimum 320GB HD, 2 MB DDR2 RAM (upgradable), DVD + - RW 7200 RPM, multi-format card reader, Firewire & USB-2 ports up front with another Firewire and 4 or more USB in back, Vista Home Premium (32 or 64-bit?). We’re fine with AMD dual-core unless there’s some reason not to be but don’t know what our selection should be; 5400+, 6000+, etc., and don’t know what motherboard would work. If we build, the wife loves the SFF “looks,” Ultra Micro Fly or Apevia/Aspire Xqpack2, but if it takes a mid-tower to fit everything that’s fine too.

Question: Ultimately, would we be better off, A) buying a pre-built like a Gateway GT5692 & then swap-out the PS for a 500W then add the 8800GT, B) purchase a pre-built unit from a system builder (recommendations?), or C) build our own? We’d be fine (I think) with screwing hardware together in a box if we knew which pieces to buy but when it comes to bios, partitioning, etc., we’re lost plus have been led to believe that building your own at this level is no longer cost effective. Another problem with building is that if we plug it in and it doesn’t work we’re pretty much SOL.

If we were to choose “C” above, we found what we think would be a really nice system posted on your sff systems forum by member: tiraides, 08-09-2008, 06:18 PM, followed by add’l suggestions by AVT, except it has an Intel cpu.

If we buy the pieces over the next months and assemble after the new year, would there be any advantage in purchasing any of the pieces earlier than any of the others?

Open to any/all suggestions & thanks in advance.
 
I highly suggest you build your own pc. It is a great experience to have. However, to be perfectly honest, at the low end of the market sector, there is very little price advantage of building your own. You can buy cheap and decently performing computers for many boutiques and OEMs at low cost. Another option to think about would be buying a prebuilt or barebones with a POS video card and just swapping them out and adding a few sticks of memory.

Option A is perfectly viable, however I wouldn't recommend gateway. Better deals can be found elsewhere.

If you do build the system and it doesn't work right away, do not fear, that is what we are for. There are plenty of members who would help you through the troubleshooting process in that event. Hell, even my first machine didn't power on right away.

Just to answer some questions/get you started...

Running your ram in Dual Channel Mode effectively doubles your memory bandwidth. You must put matched sticks of ram into certain slots for this to take effect. Note:Refer to main board manual to find what 2 slots these are.

In order to establish a decision as to what CPU to buy, there are a couple things to think about.
1. Do you plan to overclock? (very easy with intels)
2. Are you willing to pay more for Quad core now and get better performance/future proofing?

The 8800GT would be a nice choice, however I would spend the extra 40 dollars and pick up a 4870 which is a superior choice. You can find them as low as $150 AMIR and $175~ without MIR.

I'm not a processor junkie, therefore I don't know if this will hold true, but an Intel processor should perform better in applications like photoshop, vs a similar offering from AMD. They also usually have a higher envelope to be overclocked.
 
Thanks for your reply. Whether we buy or build we need to spread the cost out over some months. Personally, I’d love to build but you’re candid response leads me to a couple more questions, which will lead to more questions.
The main problem I have found with a prebuilt is the low PS, normally under 300W, and to the best of my knowledge most decent video cards require upwards of 350W. I didn’t understand that limitation when I bought the Compaq I have now. I don’t know what other decent choices there are out there or what to look for. I’d hate to spend $550 on a prebuilt then another couple hundred on PS and video card only to find out the system is lacking in some other area.
Appreciate your words of encouragement regarding my hesitation to build. I’m pretty handy but flat-out dumb when it comes to electronics.

Regarding the CPU, I know nothing about overclocking and probably wouldn’t do it if I didn’t need to.

Yes, would be willing to go quad core but thought that AMD Athlon dual cores were pretty ok for graphics/gaming? I wouldn’t know which one of those to pick either. It was my impression that you could get a little more performance from AMD for the buck, that’s all.

The 8800GT is the card I have heard the most about plus recommendations from a sales guy at Micro Center. If the 4870 is that close in price I’d gladly go there. When I say I use Photoshop I mean Elements only (amateur, not pro).

For example (trying to get my wife on board with this) if I bought her the cute Ultra Micro Fly box would everything fit? Would a quad require a huge cpu cooler?

Gotta sign out after this one & get back as soon as I can.

Thanks again for your reply.
 
First and foremost: How much money can you spend in one huge PC purcahse? It's never a good idea to buy parts over time because as time goes by, the parts bought earlier could have dropped in price or been replaced by a faster part in the same price category. So it's best to buy all the parts for the PC all in one go.

Now below $500, not gaming and if you don't already have a spare OS key, then yes it is more cost effective to just buy a prebuilt rig, slap in a new PSU and GPU and set to go. In addition, if you go route A, don't bother with an AMD CPU. Often times you will find a prebuilt PC with an Intel CPU that will outpeform that AMD CPU.

If you were going to build it yourself and if you don't plan on overclocking at all, AMD CPUs below $100 will outperform their similarily priced Intel counterparts. However, go above $100 and AMD cannot match the performance of those higher priced Intel CPUs at all.

Oh and xdivenx is thinking of the wrong video card: It's the HD4850 that's $40 more than the 8800GT, not the HD4870.

Yes a somewhat high-end system will be able to fit inside the Ultra Microfly provided you choose the right parts. The Q6600 would require a decent (not big precisely) CPU cooler or Heatsink Fan (HSF) to keep it cool inside such a small space.

I'm going to list the pros and cons of Options A and C) right now:

Option A: The Prebuilt + upgrade:
Pro:
- Easiest to setup and running
- A little bit more cost-effective

Cons:
- The case may not cool the graphics card well
- No overclocking or tweaking options
- Included PSU will not power mid to high-end cards
- Quality of parts is a bit lacking
- Usuallly limited to a one year warranty for the PC.

Option C: The DIY build:
Pro:
- Better qualtiy parts
- Better performing parts
- Longer warranty on each part (RAM has a lifetime warranty, and the rest of the parts have a 3 to 5 year warranty)
- Usually better performance
- A few tweaking and overclocking options
Cons:
- Difficult for many first-timers
- Difficult to troubleshoot should a problem arise
- A little bit more expensive than option A

If you do go with a SFF build, do NOT use the included PSU with the Microfly (that includes all the little sub models) or Apevia/Aspire XQPack 2 cases. The Power supply that comes with those cases are generally crappy/shitty.

Also, check out the GenHard FAQ that's stickied above (or just copy and paste the link from my sig) That FAQ was designed for people like you: novices to computer building and parts selection.
 
Danny Bui said:
Oh and xdivenx is thinking of the wrong video card: It's the HD4850 that's $40 more than the 8800GT, not the HD4870.
Click to expand...

Yea, sorry, I need to stop typing responses when I am tired =)

Just after looking for a few minutes on the egg, I found what seems to be a pretty good deal.
CyberPower 3300

Comes with a Q6600, 4gb of DDR2 memory, and a decent looking case. It also comes with shitty integrated graphics, which is good, so you know you aren't paying for something you are going to replace. This computer coupled with a new power supply and a graphics card with serve your purposes well. I recommend you get the Corsair 650TX which will allow headroom for future upgrades, and a Visiontek 4850, which has a LIFETIME!!!!! Warranty
 
xdivenx said:
Just after looking for a few minutes on the egg, I found what seems to be a pretty good deal.
CyberPower 3300
Click to expand...

The biggest problem with that PC is the manufacturer: Cyberpower is well known around here for extremely low quality builds and construction. In other words: don't buy a or from Cyberpower PC. Hell, a Dell is better constructed than a Cyberpower PC.
 
Ive heard good things about them from 2 friends, but maybe they have changed or are inconsistent.
 
Thank you Danny & xdivenx, your posts provide the clarity I needed. I stopped by Fry’s today & scoped out an Apevia Xqpack2 and then wandered over by the cpu coolers & wondered if I would need something like the Zalman cpns8700nt low profile to cool it, then purchased a copy of the 2008 PC Builder’s Bible. Bottom line, I think I’ve got the build fever. If I can believe the book that if I can do Ikea I can do a build, I’m good to go.

If we cut to the chase I could probably part with 1K soon enough if I could get a decent build out of it, which, according to member tiraides post (08-09-2008, 06:18PM) on the SFF Systems forum, I could come close to doing. Again, we’re not heavy gamers at this point but do enjoy gaming and think we would enjoy it more with a decent set up, which would be a multi-purpose box for sure. I don’t think we’d need something so hot it would melt ice cream in the freezer.

I read posts on your web site advising against using the existing PS’s in either the Apevia Xqpack2 or the Ultra Microfly an would stick to a quality part.

What if I were to use tiraides blueprint for a sff system and simply substitute the HD4850 for the 8800GT? The only things I would add are a multi card reader and cpu cooler if needed. Since the HD4850 requires a 400W PS would the Corsair HX520 in tiraides build still be adequate?

Thanks again.
 
I’m sure this question is answered somewhere but I’m running out of time tonight. While at Fry’s today I discovered that the 8800GT came from any number of manufacturers: Visiontek, Diamond, BFG, EVGA, and PNY. Are all things equal with these folks?
 
sr1230nx said:
What if I were to use tiraides blueprint for a sff system and simply substitute the HD4850 for the 8800GT? The only things I would add are a multi card reader and cpu cooler if needed. Since the HD4850 requires a 400W PS would the Corsair HX520 in tiraides build still be adequate?

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Tiraides posts quite a lot here :))) So can you please link to the post you're talking about? But yes, you don't need to spend $1500 just to get a decent gaming PC these days. All you need is roughly $700 to $1000 to play most games out there at high settings.

The Corsair 520HX will handle the HD4850 just fine.

Visiontek and Diamond only make ATI cards, like the HD4850. eVGA, BFG, and PNY only make Nvidia cards like the 8800GT.

Warranty wise, Visiontek and eVGA wins since they have a lifetime warranty. Support wise, haven't dealt with any of the companies support wise so cannot comment on them. But from what I've heard, eVGA, BFG and Visiontek are great support-wise.
 
Danny you deserve to get paid to post on hardforum.




sr1230nx said:
Greetings and Solutions!

Understanding this is mundane stuff for the folks here, basically we need help buying an inexpensive gaming machine. If we need to go somewhere else just say and we’ll vamoose.

Problem: We need an upgrade from our aging AMD Athlon XP 3200 (2200MHz) with 1024 DDR SDRAM and Crucial AGP/ATI Radeon 9600 (PS 250W), however we’re both “lite” on computer savvy. We have a 22” Samsung SyncMaster 216BW and Logitech MX620 mouse. The extra 512 RAM and ATI Radeon were all we’ve ever done inside a computer other than cleaning.

Usage Requirements: Micosoft Office 2007, Photoshop Elements, some home video editing with Premier Elements, E-mail, and mainstream gaming & therefore would like a decent video card to run Call of Duty & Battlefield type stuff decently.

Budget: $500 TO $1,000 range. The further toward the upper end the longer we’ll spread the purchase out over time to “ease” it into our slender budget.

What we think we know: We believe we want an Nvidia 8800GT card but we’re lost as to the requirements for the remainder of the computer, e.g., motherboard (dual channel?) & CPU, DDR2 Ram Speed, sound, cooling etc. Our best guess is that we should have a minimum 500W PS, minimum 320GB HD, 2 MB DDR2 RAM (upgradable), DVD + - RW 7200 RPM, multi-format card reader, Firewire & USB-2 ports up front with another Firewire and 4 or more USB in back, Vista Home Premium (32 or 64-bit?). We’re fine with AMD dual-core unless there’s some reason not to be but don’t know what our selection should be; 5400+, 6000+, etc., and don’t know what motherboard would work. If we build, the wife loves the SFF “looks,” Ultra Micro Fly or Apevia/Aspire Xqpack2, but if it takes a mid-tower to fit everything that’s fine too.

Question: Ultimately, would we be better off, A) buying a pre-built like a Gateway GT5692 & then swap-out the PS for a 500W then add the 8800GT, B) purchase a pre-built unit from a system builder (recommendations?), or C) build our own? We’d be fine (I think) with screwing hardware together in a box if we knew which pieces to buy but when it comes to bios, partitioning, etc., we’re lost plus have been led to believe that building your own at this level is no longer cost effective. Another problem with building is that if we plug it in and it doesn’t work we’re pretty much SOL.

If we were to choose “C” above, we found what we think would be a really nice system posted on your sff systems forum by member: tiraides, 08-09-2008, 06:18 PM, followed by add’l suggestions by AVT, except it has an Intel cpu.

If we buy the pieces over the next months and assemble after the new year, would there be any advantage in purchasing any of the pieces earlier than any of the others?

Open to any/all suggestions & thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


I think you might want to get a bit more than this. :p
 
I don't know how to link this message to the sff forum page but this was the sff build that tiraides had suggested to somone for a box sub-1,000, including monitor. This caught my eye and I thought it would be a good formula for my build.

Yes, I need to spend some time on the FAQ pages you referred to. Lots to learn. If the below system were to change the 8800GT to the HD4850 would this be getting pretty close to a go? Yupper, I would go with the 4GB DDR2.





The Apevia/Aspire XQPack and the Ultra MicroFly both use variants of the same body design, so either one would be an inexpensive choice (especially over the Silverstone SUGO cases). However, the power supplies they normally come with are worse than garbage. If you can, just get one without a PSU.

If you want to travel with both the monitor and the computer, you may want to get a smaller monitor. (That, and you definitely want to pack them while traveling as carry-ons. It's possible with the case, but I don't know about the monitor.)

Here's a revised build list:

$160 - Acer X193W+BD 19" widescreen LCD
$73 - Ultra MicroFly (free shipping)
$105 - Corsair HX520 (free shipping & $10 mail in rebate)
$133 - Asus P5E-VM HDMI
$120 - Intel E7200 (free shipping)
$75 - A-DATA 2x2GB DDR2 800 (free shipping)
$25 - Samsung SH-S223F SATA DVD burner (free shipping)
$65 - Western Digital 320GB SATA HDD (free shipping)
$150 - EVGA 8800GT (free shipping & $20 mail in rebate)
$80 - Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit OEM
=====
$986 - Subtotal (not including shipping, taxes, or rebates)

I made some changes to your initial wish list in order to get everything (including monitor and operating system) at under $1000 before shipping. (If you need to get everything at under $1000 shipped, then drop the RAM down to a 2GB kit.) I never tried traveling with a monitor before, so you may want to consider a 17 inch monitor with an easily removable base instead.

Because heat will be an issue with this build, I suggest leaving everything at stock settings. For this reason, and to cut costs, I didn't choose an aftermarket CPU cooler.
Click to expand...

Many thanks again.
 
sr1230nx said:
Yes, I need to spend some time on the FAQ pages you referred to. Lots to learn. If the below system were to change the 8800GT to the HD4850 would this be getting pretty close to a go? Yupper, I would go with the 4GB DDR2.
Click to expand...

Pretty much yes.

Just copy and paste the link from the address bar into your post. The Forum will take care of the rest.
 
I just bought my third Hp computer from cc! Reliable and preforms well.This latest one i got is the HP Pavilion Elite m9340f for around $950 (on sale).I spent few hundred dollars on upgrades!The power suppy is weak and the 9500gs video card isnt really that great if you intend to do some hard core games.Added a 650w supply and a BFG 8800GT graphics card and now im ready to rock!!This computer really does the job now with the upgrade,For many this computer does very well for them without the upgrades.Total cost for me was around $1300.Heres a link if you want more info.
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/HP-P...13654/catOid/-12962/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do
 
stanleyjohn said:
I just bought my third Hp computer from cc! Reliable and preforms well.This latest one i got is the HP Pavilion Elite m9340f for around $950 (on sale).I spent few hundred dollars on upgrades!The power suppy is weak and the 9500gs video card isnt really that great if you intend to do some hard core games.Added a 650w supply and a BFG 8800GT graphics card and now im ready to rock!!This computer really does the job now with the upgrade,For many this computer does very well for them without the upgrades.Total cost for me was around $1300.Heres a link if you want more info.
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/HP-P...13654/catOid/-12962/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do
Click to expand...

Far, far too much for what you're getting in the end.
 
sr1230nx said:
$160 - Acer X193W+BD 19" widescreen LCD
$73 - Ultra MicroFly (free shipping)
$105 - Corsair HX520 (free shipping & $10 mail in rebate)
$133 - Asus P5E-VM HDMI
$120 - Intel E7200 (free shipping)
$75 - A-DATA 2x2GB DDR2 800 (free shipping)
$25 - Samsung SH-S223F SATA DVD burner (free shipping)
$65 - Western Digital 320GB SATA HDD (free shipping)
$150 - EVGA 8800GT (free shipping & $20 mail in rebate)
$80 - Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit OEM
Click to expand...

i'd recommend a larger case for future expansions, the antec 300 is 60 shipped right now on newegg, you can even combo in a 650w antec earth watts for 145 before shipping and the case has a lot of cooling as well

the asus p5q is the board i have running the p45 main stream chipset, 130 from newegg or you can save a few dollars by going to the p5q-se, 105

the 8800 WAS a good card it's now 2 generations behind (8 series, 9 series, gtx0 series)

the ati 4850 is a current generation card, that can match the 9 series cards, and visiontek offers a lifetime warranty

so, my list for you
$145 - antec 300 with 650w antec psu
$105 - asus p5q
$120 - intel e7200 processor
$75 - g.skill ddr2 800 2x2gb memory
$25 - samsung burner
$65 - wd 320gb hdd
$184 - visiontek ati radeon hd4850 ($165 after mail in)
$80 - vista home oem 64 bit
-total $800

i didn't list a monitor here for a reason, i like to buy monitors at a local store
a. online retailers have horrible return policies on dead pixels
b. you can see, feel and touch the monitor in a store, and also fiddle with it
c. you don't like it for whatever reason, bring it back and get something else the same day

good luck with your build, i still remember my first athlon 850mhz build with my friends, i was so nervous that i would break something:D
 
If you really want a SFF system, then get one... and tiraides list is a good starting point.

Voiceofid said:
...
$105 - asus p5q
...
Click to expand...

The 24-pin ATX connector location on this board can cause cable management nightmares and lead to poor case airflow, which isn't good for keeping temps low.
 
enginurd said:
If you really want a SFF system, then get one... and tiraides list is a good starting point.



The 24-pin ATX connector location on this board can cause cable management nightmares and lead to poor case airflow, which isn't good for keeping temps low.
Click to expand...

funny how everyone saids that yet our system has normal temps(cpu 34idle/57load, nb 32, 4850 45idle/55load), and with the antec 300, the location of the pin works quite well
 
There's an open box P35 Shuttle on Newegg for $200.99

If you want SFF - get that. They retail for $450.
 
Wow, thanks to everyone for responding to my posts. Gonna digest as much as I can over the next week or so then jump in the world of build.

FYI, I already have a Samsung 22” SyncMaster 216BW so set with a monitor for now.

Our initial reason for choosing a SFF System was that mama saw one & thought it was really cute/different, it’s not mandatory just a preference. Since heat seems to be a factor with SFF maybe we’ll look harder at a mid-size case. Saw a Coolermaster CM Centurion 590 Bloack at Fry’s for $65 & thought it was handsome plus it had more ventelation holes and fan mount options than any other case in the store I think.

Can I assume that if we went mid-size that the motherboard is really the only change we’d need to make with previous build list?

Thanks again to you all.
 
Voiceofid said:
funny how everyone saids that yet our system has normal temps(cpu 34idle/57load, nb 32, 4850 45idle/55load), and with the antec 300, the location of the pin works quite well
Click to expand...

34 idle? I idle at 26/52 load. nb at 32? mine's at 28. 4850 at 45? I don't have one. :p

I also said CAN... I didn't say it WOULD... CAN. If you can't differentiate the meaning between the two words, use Google. ;)

Nevertheless, its still a horrible place to put the connector. :confused:
 
enginurd said:
34 idle? I idle at 26/52 load. nb at 32? mine's at 28. 4850 at 45? I don't have one. :p

I also said CAN... I didn't say it WOULD... CAN. If you can't differentiate the meaning between the two words, use Google. ;)

Nevertheless, its still a horrible place to put the connector. :confused:
Click to expand...

still get average temps :p

it's just a easier place for psu that are located on the bottom, a loop around the vga card and it's done
 
sr1230nx said:
Can I assume that if we went mid-size that the motherboard is really the only change we’d need to make with previous build list?
Click to expand...

Pretty much. Here's a list of some recommended motherboards:
Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L Intel P43 Motherboard - $90
MSI P45 Neo3-FR Intel P45 Motherboard - $112
Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R Intel P45 Motherboard - $130
Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 Motherboard - $140
Biostar TPower I45 Intel P45 Motherboard - $150
DFI Lanparty DK X38-T2R Intel X38 Motherboard - $180
Asus P5E Deluxe Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
DFI Lanparty DK X48-T2R Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4 Intel X48 Motherboard - $225

Just to help you out: All of these motherboards have PCI-E 2.0 which may be useful for future GPU upgrades. If you don't need RAID, more than 6 SATA ports and only need semi-decent overclocking, check out the DS3L. If you need 8 SATA ports, RAID, 4 PCI slots, and legacy ports, then get the Neo3-Fr. If you don't need more than 6 SATA ports but want RAID, firewire, a second PCI-E x16 port, a second gigabit port, support for 16GB of RAM, optional eSATA, x8/x8 Crossfire, and great overclocks, then get the DS3R. If you like the DS3R but need 8 SATA ports, want an onboard pre-installed fast booting Linux setup, just support for 8GB of RAM, and don't need a second gigabit port, get the Asus P5Q Pro. If you want a motherboard with excellent overclocking capabilities above all else (feature wise), go with the I45. If you want Crossfire with full x16/x16 bandwidth, get the Lanparty DK X38. If you have cash to burn, need x16/x16 Crossfire, and don't give a damn about getting the most value for your money, get the Asus, DFI, or Gigabyte X48 motherboards. Do note that the Asus website can be slow sometimes.
 
Wow, Danny, you’re one helpful and savvy fellow. Our computer needs are relatively modest with the exception of wanting a great gaming board, which I think has been recommended to us in the HD3850.

Because this would be our first build I’m gonna spend some time on your FAQ pages and elsewhere to learn all I can before buying my system. I’ve been tempted to start buying it by pieces but have been wisely advised against doing it that way & now better understand why. Once I think I know enough to start my build I’ll post a list of two systems, one for a SFF build (bec mama still loves the looks) and one for a mid-tower and then ask for some final opinion/suggestions from you pros here. This is a lot more difficult than I thought it would be bec basically I have been a plug-and-run guy most of my life and building may require more computer smarts than I can conjure up ever, but maybe I can get a decent enough system together with some help. That’s the plan anyway.

After this post I’ll probably just vaporize for a while & haunt your site just reading & asking questions as they come up. I have already posted one list based on the suggestions of tiraides, you, and all the others who have helped, which may end up as my SFF build. The CPU and motherboard choices really pose a jungle for me and your advice has proven indispensable. Thanks again to you all & hope to be back shortly with my final build lists.

Yes, Danny should be put on some sort of commission here.
 
sr1230nx said:
Yes, Danny should be put on some sort of commission here.
Click to expand...

LOL!. Nah. There are a lot of other people here who are just as knowledgeble if not more as me. I just tend to post a lot due to a freakish amount of free time I have until college starts again.

Oh and we recommended the HD4850, not the HD3850. Make sure you don't make that mistake when buying! :)
 
Yah, building from scratch may require some troubleshooting, but it better prepares you for any future problems you may have. Its so much easier for people to learn how to build and troubleshoot with all of these online forums and guides, and tiraides et al. have done a great job of compiling a good list of all those guides. If 12 year old kids can build a computer, I'm pretty sure you could with some effort, so you're on the right track. ;)

The major things you typically sacrifice with SFF systems is overclocking ability (small case, less airflow, higher temps = no overhead for OC'ing), expansion space (only 3 expansion slots aside from the graphics card, and thats even if you don't mind crowding the graphics card; also less room for extra HDDs and optical drives), good PSUs (hard to find good mATX PSUs, but they're only needed with a SFF case that can't handle regular ATX PSUs), and overall internal case space (typically only one HDD and ODD).

Voiceofid said:
still get average temps :p

it's just a easier place for psu that are located on the bottom, a loop around the vga card and it's done
Click to expand...

Average? Sure... higher than in my lower airflow case? yup... which was my point. But again, yes, still within good operating range.

The edge of the board, where most boards place the connector, is a much better place for it, whether or not the PSU is on the bottom. Even if the PSU is on the bottom, its still a better place than in the middle of the board, because its a simple wrap around the mobo plate, like in the P180 or RC-690... clean look, cable is out of the airflow path, and the connector is easy to reach... none of this going around the video card, where the fat 24-pin connector can block some airflow.

sr1230nx said:
... Yes, Danny should be put on some sort of commission here.
Click to expand...

If Danny gets paid, I want some royalties. :p j/k I'd probably owe him for all that typing he saves me from doing. :D
 
Greetings again!

I have started acquiring parts for my first build & have decided to stick with a SFF set up & most probably will not be overclocking (I’ll consider myself blessed if I can just get this system to work properly). Appreciate your comments/suggestions on this list and as I continue. It’s a work in progress and I may not be able to buy all the remaining parts immediately, but working on it.

Our computing needs are rather modest but we want a good video card/gaming board. I’m still using nearly all of the suggestions posted by tirades.

Following is a list of my planned build noting what I have ordered (O) and what I still need to order (N), and some questions.

O - Ultra Microfly
N - Corsair HX520 PS (1)
O - Asus P5E-VM HDMI
N - Intel E7200
N - A-Data 2x2GB DDR 800
O - Samsung SH-S223F DVD Burner OEM (2)
N - Western Digital Caviar Green SATA 500GB HDD
N – HD4850 or 8800GT or 9600GT
N – Modem (3)
N – Vista Home Premium SP1 OEM
N – Multi-card Reader

1)This is a modular PS and I checked the size and it’s 5.9” long as opposed to a standard ATX PS/2 which is 5.5” long so I don’t think it will fit in the Ultra Microfly, therefore I’d probably favor the Corsair CMPSU-550VX.


2)This is an OEM burner and didn’t come with any disk. Will I have to download firmware/drivers for it before I can use it or just connect it and it’ll run?

3)Any suggestions for a modem card?

4)Any Suggestions for a multi-card reader?


Thanks again, in advance.
 
1) The Corsair 520HX will fit just fine. Plus, the modular cables will provide additional space savings.
2) You can just conntect it and it'll run
3) Why do you need a modem card? Are you still on dial-up?
4) Got no suggestions for a multi-card reader.
 
Ok, thanks Danny. The Microfly should be here on Friday. I didn’t want to order anything until I could measure and be sure but now I’ll shop and buy the 520HX. I didn’t realize there was a size difference until I stopped at Fry’s and found a modular with the larger dimension in length so thought I better ask the question. I’m only just starting to learn what questions to ask so bear with me.

ARGH! About the modem card, I’m brain dead tonight. No, I’m on DSL but just past the end of some old AT&T lines so the max I can get is around 650 kbps on the download side. I was on dial-up for too many years and I’m afraid the modem card got burned into my brain.

Micro Center has the E7200 on sale for $99 & plan to pick that up tomorrow unless I find a better deal on line tonight.

Getting there.

P.S. I glanced at the on-line manual for the mobo last night. Big time intimidation factor for me.
 
Just ordered the 520HX from Buy.com for $104.99 w/a $15 MIR.

Yeah, the HD4850 will be a budget stretch & may have to carry it over to another month if at all, otherwise it will be the 8800GT.

Do you think the HD4850 would pose any heating issues with this setup as I haven't included any cpu cooler or extra fans or the like.

Anyway, I'm outa here tonight. Thanks for all your input.
 
Back again after a brief interlude called Ike. Just got power at 3:30 PM today, Houston, near west side.

Anyway, trying to get caught up. The Ultra Microfly was held up in shipping due to the storm but should have it soon. The Asus P5E-VM HDMI momo arrived as did the Corsair HX520. I see Micro Center has some good prices going for RAM, HDD and ??? so hope to get by there tomorrow.

Good to be back. No questions this time!!!
 
Greetings!

Picked up two more pieces to my build today at Micro Center: 1) Vista Home Premium SP1 64 bit OEM for $79.99 and, 2) Western Digital Caviar Green 500GB SATA HDD for $89.99. That leaves me with only the RAM, Video Card and Multi-Card reader to go because my Ultra MicroFly arrived today. Along with that came another question. Will I need an internal floppy for this system?

The salesman at Micro Center said something about needing an internal floppy for the flash bios on this build. I’m not to that point yet but wonder if I absolutely need an internal floppy and if so should I try to find a combo card reader and floppy drive?
 
Greetings again!

Sorry to split questions up into multiple posts but I was called away and didn't expect to be back on tonight.

Is there a preference for either package?


G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
- Retail - $66.99

A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory – Retail - $69.99

Thanks again in advance.
 
The two RAM kits offer essentially the same performance, so get the cheaper of the two -- in this case, the G.Skill set.

If you can (read: haven't opened it yet), return the WD Caviar Green 500GB HDD. The hard drive spins down to (around) 5400RPM while idle, but I don't know how quickly it ramps back up to 7200RPM when needed. Additionally, you could purchase the better-performing WD6400AAKS from either NewEgg or ZipZoomFly for under $85 shipped.

You could use a bootable CD-RW or flash drive to update your BIOS; in most cases, a floppy isn't necessary. (Check the motherboard's manual to see whether or not it will boot from a USB flash drive.)
 
Great. Just the sort of advice I have come to expect here and I thank you for it. I haven’t opened the HDD pkg yet and should have no problem with a return (Monday). Will get an order in for the WD6400AAKS and G.Skill set this weekend.

Section 4.1.3 of my motherboard manual is titles, ASUS EZ flash 2 utility, which “allows you to update the BIOS without having to go through the long process of booting from a floppy disk and using a DOS-based utility. The EZ Flash 2 utility is built-in the BIOS chip so it is accessible by pressing <Alt> + <F2> during the Power-On Self Tests (POST).

To update the BIOS using EZ Flash 2:

1. Visit the ASUS website (www.asus.com) to download the latest BIOS filr for the motherboard.
2. Save the BIOS to a floppy disk or a USB flash disk, then restart the system.
3. You can launch the EZ flash 2 by two methods:

(1) Insert the floppy disk/USB flash disk that contains the BIOS file to the flopy disk drive or the USB port. Press<Alt> + <F2> during POST to display the follwing
(shows a graphic of ASUSTek EZ Flash 2 BIOS ROM Utility V3.06

(2) Enter BIOS setup program. Go to the Tools menu to select EZFlash2 and press <enter> to enable it. You can switch between drives by pressing <Tab> before the correct file is found. Then press <Enter>,

4. When the correct BIOS file is found, EZ Flash 2 performs the BIOS update process and automatically reboots the system when done.”


Is this the method to update BIOS you referred to?

All that probably sounds very straight forward to you but to someone who has never done this, or used a flash drive for that matter, it’s a challenge.

So, that answers my question about an internal floppy – I don’t need one. I’ll pick up an Ultra multi-card reader for $14 from Micro Center when I return the HDD.

Thanks so very much again & look forward to the actual build, which I think is pretty close to the one you posted which I’m using as a guide, so double thanks.
 
sr1230nx said:
Is this the method to update BIOS you referred to?

All that probably sounds very straight forward to you but to someone who has never done this, or used a flash drive for that matter, it’s a challenge.
Click to expand...

Yep... though, in reality, you answered your own question:

(1) Insert the floppy disk/USB flash disk that contains the BIOS file to the flopy disk drive or the USB port. Press<Alt> + <F2> during POST to display the follwing
(shows a graphic of ASUSTek EZ Flash 2 BIOS ROM Utility V3.06
Click to expand...

There are many ways to create a bootable USB flash drive, but one of the most common ways to do so is to use the HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool. Download it and follow the instructions on how to make a bootable flash drive.
 
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