Help finding a (new) AGP 8x for under $200

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sac48738

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I have a dell Dimension 8300 (800mhz Hyper Threading 8x AGP 1gb Ram) and am looking for a new video card. Currently I have a 9600xt and amd wondering what to upgrade to. I have found:
Sapphire Radeon x800GTO for $171
GECUBE Radeon X800XL X800XLA-VIVO PRO-Gamer CSCZ
SAPPHIRE Radeon X1600PRO 100158 Video Card - OEM
online and I am wondering if I am overlooking something. I am thinking for it to be around 200 after tax and shipping, but I have a little bit of leeway eithre way.
So the x1600 is 512Mb ram, but only 128-bit memory interface and 12 pipes while the x800s are both 256mb and 256-bit memory interface (both 400mhz core clock speed), but one has 16 pipes the other 12.

I haven't bought a card in ages so I don't really know what the differences is between these things and what I'm buying or what my computer would even be able to utilize. I want to make a solid buy that will be able to play some games and last for a few years. My next motherobard will of course be a PCI-e board, but I don't plan on getting that for many years.

So any advice on these cards, or mayb ea card I am overlooking. I am willing to do overclocking, but just at the most basic level. I don't want to have to buy an extra fan or take a chance of ruining my card doing something too risky. So basically it would be this cards capabilities wit ha safe moderate overclocking.

Oh, and I don't necessarily have a problem with Geforce, just nothing that compared to thsee seemed to be in the same price range.

Thanks.
 
6800GS! You might have to pay ~$215 or so, but it's well worth it. Stock It'll perform around the same as a 6800GT (a little better than the x800s along with SM3.0 support) and if it unlocks it'll be around an Ultra, and if it overclocks beyond that...well, it's all icing on the cake :)

I'd ignore the x1600 pro, unless you'd really like to save the cash as it's the equivalent of the 6600GT/9800pro which wouldn't be much of an upgrade. It also wouldn't last very long...

So, my vote is 6800GS, but out of the three you listed, definetly the 16 pipe x800
 
Of the 3 cards you listed the X800XL is the way to go. 16 pipes and easily overclockable. I have one AGP X800Pro and 1 PCI-e X800Pro and love them both, but the X800XL is better than either of the X800Pro's. Both my cards oc madly with either Powerstrip or ATItool. Both systems play HL/HL2/HL2 Lost Coast at max. settings easily and smoothly. You'll be quite happy with the X800XL I predict.
 
Thanks for these quick responses guys...



http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=356&card2=52

here is a site that compares them directly. It says the GTO has a 480 GPU and the XL has the 430 GPU. Somewhere I read that the 480 is more easily overclockable. But I have no idea really...

Is there any potential to unlock the 4 pipes on the GTO? and if so would that make any difference in which one to choose?

As far as the Geforce quadnad suggested:
BFG Tech Geforce 6800GS BFGR68256GSOC is the only 6800gs I foudn on newegg, but it is out of stock and also says 12 pipes.
 
sac48738 said:
As far as the Geforce quadnad suggested:
BFG Tech Geforce 6800GS BFGR68256GSOC is the only 6800gs I foudn on newegg, but it is out of stock and also says 12 pipes.
Click to expand...

That is indeed true (just give it a google and you'll find a few other places you buy it from), but even with 12 pipes it'll perform just as well as a 6800GT (as long as you bump the core to 400, but a lot of them are clocked beyond that stock), but if you unlock the extra quad and vs you'll get up to the speed of an Ultra. True, it isn't guaranteed, but I think for the price/performance it offers stock that it's still the best option, along with sm 3.0 support.

However, if you're still firmly planted in the ATi camp, then the 16 pipe x800 is the best option.
 
I don't know much about the 6800GT so, that it might compare to that still leave me with questions. If I COULD get it performing at those speeds would that then be the clear choice? And in order to unlock it is there a huge risk of ruining the card all together? Are there any particular brands of 6800gs (at that price range) that are more likely to unlock? If you do have any links to reputable sites that sell the card let me know please.

Again, thanks for the info Quadnad
 
sac48738 said:
I don't know much about the 6800GT so, that it might compare to that still leave me with questions. If I COULD get it performing at those speeds would that then be the clear choice? And in order to unlock it is there a huge risk of ruining the card all together? Are there any particular brands of 6800gs (at that price range) that are more likely to unlock? If you do have any links to reputable sites that sell the card let me know please.

Again, thanks for the info Quadnad
Click to expand...

The 6800GT will perform a bit better than the x800. The 6800 series also offers SM 3.0.

When you say if you COULD get it performing at those speeds, a lot of manufacturers sell the cards clocked high enough (400 core) to perform like a 6800GT. The difference looks like this: a stock 6800GT runs at 350 core and 500 mem (1 ghz effective), and a stock 6800GS runs the same clocks. With the 6800GS at 400 core, it'll basically make up for the pipe deficiency. Many 6800GS's are already sold at that speed (here is an eVGA clocked at 400/1.1, definetly 6800GT speed), and I know for a fact that 400 core isn't even breaking a sweat for the GS. If it unlocks, which quite a few have, you'll then have an Ultra.

If you shop around, you'll be able to find them a bit cheaper than the link I provided.

As for whether unlocking could possibly damage the card, the answer is no. What you'll do is select an option detailed in quite a few guides in Rivatuner, restart the computer, and start up your games. If there are no artifacts, then you've got another four pipes and a vertex shader. If there are artifacts, you just go back into Rivatuner and uncheck the option. Restart and everything is back to normal. There really aren't any brands that are better than others.


and no problem for providing the info :D
 
all i've found thus far for less than $200 is PNY GeForce 6800 GS / 256MB GDDR3 / AGP 8x / DVI / VGA / TV Out / Video Card which has a core clock at 350mhz at $170 or so

EVGA 256-A8-N387-TX GEFORCE 6800GS 256MB 256-BIT GDDR3 AGP 4X 8X VIDEO CARD-R at 350mhz as well for $202

does it matter whether the core clock is factory 400 or not? Is it riskier taking a 350mhz to a 400 than just having a 400mhz to start? because the difference in price is at least 25 - 50 dollars more, and that is getting a little steep.

Finding a 400mhz at less than that $215 (let alone nearer my $180-200 target) is damn near impossible as far as I can see. Any great links that I am missing out on?

new egg has a 370mhz core for $199 here but they are out of stock of those.
 
It's not a big deal at all to bump the core up to 400, though you'll obviously want to do the traditional overclocking thing (rivatuner, atitool, whatever your preference is for monitoring temps and artifacting). In my opinion, I'd pick up either the PNY or eVGA (my pref would go to the eVGA because of it's fantastic warranty, but your budget may dictate otherwise), and first try and unlock it. If it doesn't unlock (not a big deal), then just overclock it. If it does unlock, try for an overclock.

Yeah, the prices have shot up since as soon as they were released everyone snatched them up ASAP. They used to be all ~$200, even the superclocked ones...

No matter what happens, you're looking at minimum of about the same performance as the 16 pipe x800, along with sm 3.0. I'd say pull the trigger on that eVGA.
 
The PNY is 30 dollars cheaper. Still think I should get the EVGA? because if i unlock and overclock it and it crap out on me than an extended warranty doesn't really help does it? Maybe there is a spec difference? Or is pny no good? I just don't see what the 30 dollars buys. And as far as one can tell this totally beats out and X800xl even when that is unlocked? or the gto if you cuold unlock that to 16?

You are pimping my posts by the way. Thanks man very appreciated. I haven't bought a card in years, so I don't know what I'm talking about, but I have been looking fora few days already, so I am really anxious to just buy one this afternoon.
 
sac48738 said:
The PNY is 30 dollars cheaper. Still think I should get the EVGA? because if i unlock and overclock it and it crap out on me than an extended warranty doesn't really help does it? Maybe there is a spec difference? Or is pny no good? I just don't see what the 30 dollars buys. And as far as one can tell this totally beats out and X800xl even when that is unlocked? or the gto if you cuold unlock that to 16?

You are pimping my posts by the way. Thanks man very appreciated. I haven't bought a card in years, so I don't know what I'm talking about, but I have been looking fora few days already, so I am really anxious to just buy one this afternoon.
Click to expand...

hah, glad to hear I can be of help, I enjoy it.

So about the price difference: PNY is generally avoided because of their less than stellar warranty (3 years, not lifetime like eVGA and won't cover aftermarket HSFs), but because of that price differential you may decide that 3 years is enough. Most people that have cards fail are either DOA or fail within the first week or two, and are therefore able to exchange with the place they bought it from. As for the warranty becoming void, the manufacturers you RMA the dead card with cannot tell if you've overclocked it unless you voltmodded or changed the BIOS, so it's kind of...hush hush.

So, as for what the $30 buys I would say piece of mind (eVGA technical support is excellent), and a lifetime warranty that covers aftermarket HSFs.

Performance wise, not unlocked the 6800GS is basically around the same performance of an x800xl. It isn't faster, but it isn't slower either (benches always sway one way or the other slightly). Unlocked or overclocked however, it will be faster.
 
I would imagine that in 3 years I would have graduated to a PCI board (unless they fail).

By HSF's you mean heat sink fan? If so, do I have to immediately consider the price of adding one of those? because then that changes a lot of things.

About the voiding the warranty, unlocking the pipes doesn't involve changing the bios at all? interseting. It seems that as soon as I get one of these I need to figure out how the hell to upgrade it without messing it up.

You are really convincing me though at least to get the card in general. Each time I upgrade I am going back and forth. Geforce 256 to radeon 9600xt to what looks like 6800gs.
Now I just have to decide WHICH 6800gs and It will be credit card time. In light of the new info any more sage advice? Are either one known more for unlocking or overclocking or overheating or crappng out? (any other brand knowledge would also help, it is just that these are the only affordable cards I can find)
 
Sorry to have used an acronym, I they do sound a bit silly...but yes, I was referring to a heatsink-fan. No, you won't have to worry about installing one to cool down the 6800GS, but if you want to do some hardcore overclocking or wish to make it whisper silent, then I'd say a VF700CU or Silencer is in your future.

As for brand, although I've heard a fair amount of bad press for PNY, I think it's all really been related to people having trouble rma'ing their card. I don't know whether these are isolated incidents (I'd imagine so, considering all the people with cards that work just fine aren't posting), but to be honest, I'd say do whatever your wallet feels like. Neither brand will unlock better than the other.
 
BTW, god knows why I didn't bother posting this for you earlier: 6800GS Comparison

Even though that's a PCI-E comparison, and the PCI-E 6800GS is clocked a bit higher on the core (not that you can't oc to those frequencies, and that oc also accounts for only a few frames), that'll give you an idea as to how it'll fair.
 
Interesting thing about that 6800GS (which sounds like a grea card) is that is starts at 425Mhz and they clock it to 475mhz. All of the ones that we were talking about were 350mhz. That is an extreme difference. Why is that? And does that mean it would be safe to overclock THAT much?! or is that just to say that the nvidia brand is better than all other third party cards? And how do I get ahold of THAT card?
 
sac48738 said:
Interesting thing about that 6800GS (which sounds like a grea card) is that is starts at 425Mhz and they clock it to 475mhz. All of the ones that we were talking about were 350mhz. That is an extreme difference. Why is that? And does that mean it would be safe to overclock THAT much?! or is that just to say that the nvidia brand is better than all other third party cards? And how do I get ahold of THAT card?
Click to expand...

ahahah...well, the pci-e card is clocked higher due to the fact that it's a different core. I wouldn't worry about that though, considering the AGP model is using the same core as the Ultra and the same memory as the GT. i.e. with stock cooling you can expect ~400 core/1.05-1.1 mem, and with aftermarket cooling 425/1.1, perhaps 430/1.15. Also, since the PCI-E version is a different core, it doesn't have the possibility to unlock.

So then, although the AGP version won't clock as high, it's got the unlocking possibility (four pipes and one vertex shader, and often times even if one is corrupt, you can still unlock the other), and will still clock high enough to be 6800GT-Ultra speed.
 
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet but I didn't see it so I'm gonna say it anyways :). EVGA's warrenty also covers overclocking and bios flashes so you dont have to worry about screwing up and breaking the card while overclocking.
 
Thanks again for your help. I went with the PNY for a few reasons. Cheaper, of course. But that is becuase I might need to get a new power supply and fan for it depending on how it runs. Also, the pny (like probably all others) can use the nvidia drivers, so that is more versatile as well. The success rate of unlocking is mixed, but it just sounds like that is the norm. And as far as warranty, if this card craps out in a year or two then I guess I will just jump to PCI-e anyways by that time so no worries about that. I just placed the order about 5 miuntes ago... so if I made some huge mistake someone let me know while I can still cancel haha.
 
sac48738 said:
Thanks again for your help. I went with the PNY for a few reasons. Cheaper, of course. But that is becuase I might need to get a new power supply and fan for it depending on how it runs. Also, the pny (like probably all others) can use the nvidia drivers, so that is more versatile as well. The success rate of unlocking is mixed, but it just sounds like that is the norm. And as far as warranty, if this card craps out in a year or two then I guess I will just jump to PCI-e anyways by that time so no worries about that. I just placed the order about 5 miuntes ago... so if I made some huge mistake someone let me know while I can still cancel haha.
Click to expand...

Well then, glad to hear you've pulled the trigger. I hope you enjoy the card, and I'm sure you won't have any problems with the vid card (3 year warranty is probably more than enough). And yes, all nvidia cards can use the nvidia drivers, but no matter.

Just make sure you follow the sticky on this forum about switching from ATi to nVIDIA cards, as you'll (obviously) want to minimize the chance of a driver issue. The sticky will detail how to properly uninstall and completely remove the ATi drivers.
 
3 minutes after I post you respond. Damn you're good. You are like a car salesman. hahah Thanks a lot man. I'll let you know how it turns out. (3-7 business days from now)
 
sac48738 said:
3 minutes after I post you respond. Damn you're good. You are like a car salesman. hahah Thanks a lot man. I'll let you know how it turns out. (3-7 business days from now)
Click to expand...
lol, I'm always checkin the forums :D

Of course now that you say that I was on the phone with a friend...I can't multitask for shit.

So, be sure to post back when you're ready to go with your card, and probably in a little bit I'll post a guide to unlocking so you can review it before the new card arrives.
 
So I got the card, everything works great. I have it clocked to 410\575(1115) from 350/500(1000) and unlocked the pipes and the shader 16,6 from 12,5. It all seems to work fine, no artifacts or anything. I am worried about that overclocking and all that I did to it because I only have the stock fan. I should have tried it straight then overclocked it, but I had read too much about the overclocking and was too eager. So I don't evne know how much of a difference those changes make.
The only thing that sucks it that my computer is much louder now. I thought it might be the GPU fan, but I slowed it down and sped it up and that wasn't it... I am wondering if this new burden has made the power supply fan have to spin up to cool it. That sucks... I used to be unsure whether the computer was on when the power saver mode went on the monitor, but now I know at all times... but other than that no complaints

Thanks again for your help.
 
sac48738 said:
So I got the card, everything works great. I have it clocked to 410\575(1115) from 350/500(1000) and unlocked the pipes and the shader 16,6 from 12,5. It all seems to work fine, no artifacts or anything. I am worried about that overclocking and all that I did to it because I only have the stock fan. I should have tried it straight then overclocked it, but I had read too much about the overclocking and was too eager. So I don't evne know how much of a difference those changes make.
The only thing that sucks it that my computer is much louder now. I thought it might be the GPU fan, but I slowed it down and sped it up and that wasn't it... I am wondering if this new burden has made the power supply fan have to spin up to cool it. That sucks... I used to be unsure whether the computer was on when the power saver mode went on the monitor, but now I know at all times... but other than that no complaints

Thanks again for your help.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear everything is running well!

I'd check the temperatures that everything is still running fine even while under load just to make sure that your overzealous overclocking (wow that sounds odd when you say it) is OK. Thats when you'll start to see artifacts from overclocking. Download RTHDRIBL and run that while looking at the temps in your control panel.

Since you've already unlocked it though, well done, as those pipes and that vertex shader are fully functional and at 350/500 you'd have a 6800GT, and at the clocks you're at right now you've got something just beyond an Ultra. Either way you saved a bundle and gotten quite a bit of extra performance.

About the noise: sorry to hear that your psu is pissing you off now...that can be a bother. if you're looking to replace the thing, I've got some cheap and very quiet alternatives.
 
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