Help me resolve this dispute. Opinions needed

ibex333

ibex333

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 30, 2007
Messages
1,122
I bought a used Lenovo T61 laptop from someone on this forum a few weeks back. The seller clearly stated in his sale thread that the laptop emits a noise during operation, which is possibly coming from the fan inside. I PMed the seller asking him if the Laptop works, and if I will be able to use it. I dont remember how I worded my question, but I remember the seller specifically telling me that the fan works, and the laptop is FINE. I have his reply to me to back up what I am saying.

Upon arrival I noticed that the laptop is absolutely filthy. The kb and screen was covered in some sort of white stuff. I told the seller about it, and he implied that I am lucky to buy this laptop this low and it should clean up nicely anyway. (price was only slightly lower than what they sell for on ebay) Even though I wasnt a huge fan of such a reply, the laptop DID clean up nicely so I didn't pursue this further.

Here's the main issue:

I bought this laptop knowing there was no hard drive inside, no battery, no DVD drive and no charger. I ordered all these parts and had to wait about 2 weeks for all of them to arrive because the ebay seller who sold me the charger and battery sent me wrong items and I had to go through the whole charade to get replacements. Anyway, I finally go them, turned the laptop on, installed windows and.... The laptop shut off after about 3 min.
I restarted, and yet again it shut off after emitting a whirring noise from the inside.

I restarted yet again, and this time during POST I got a message "fan error" and laptop shut off immediately.

I PMed the seller asking for money back, and money for shipping but he refused offering either money back for laptop only(I have to pay back shipping) or money for replacement fan and I have to install it. He added that I am lucky that he is even offering something like this 2 weeks past laptops arrival date, and that replacing the fan is no big deal and should be relatively easy. He also said that the laptop was indeed fine when he shipped it to me, and it so happens that it probably died when it got to me. (I think it's a bunch of BS and it was already dying before shipping)

I replied by saying that this is not the point. the point is that he failed to explain to me in detail that he was selling me a dying laptop. I was cool with a noisy laptop, but I wasn't supposed to expect it was dying since the seller specifically told me the laptop is FINE.

I feel that I have been wronged, so I want to hear some opinions on this matter. Is the seller right, and I am an idiot for expecting this laptop to work when he told me in advance it was noisy? Or did the seller scam me by misleading me into buying a laptop he said was working when in fact it is broken?

Again, the only thing I was warned about in advance was the noise. As far as I was concerned I was buying a working laptop.
 
I hate to say it but a noisy fan is a dying fan. That being said, what were the terms of the sale though? No-DOA, as is, etc...

As for the other issues about condition did you see pictures prior to purchasing it?
 
Well in my honest opinion, I would say that he is not at fault.

He notified you that there were issues and that the noise coming from the laptop could potentially be damaging, causing an eventual breakdown.

Now if he said "laptop is in perfect condition" then you received it that way, then yes he would be at fault, but the fact that he already notified you of such issues I wouldn't put blame on him.

If you installed windows, then to him it was able to run.
When I bought a laptop without a hard drive, I just tested to see if it could get into bios and if it could boot up to "DISK ERROR - NO OS" or such.

Sorry for your troubles, but in my opinion you knew you were buying a potentially defective laptop by being notified of the noise. I'm sure others will disagree as this is just my personal opinion
 
He said it should work fine.
It does not even work.

He should pay for new fan + fees for labor.
You had to buy accessories, so no use shipping back even if he pays return shipping.
 
Doesn't seems like a scam to me. He is willing to give you money for the fan replacement. How was he to know the fan was going to die completely? I have had fans make noise and last for years. Now if you replace the fan and it still has issues, then I would be more concered.
 
Even though I was in fact notified of the noise as stated earlier, there was no mention of potential problems arising from this. The seller expected me to be knowledgeable enough to know that a noisy fan is a dying fan. I wasn't knowledgeable enough to realize this. I deal with disassembling/building/upgrading desktops, but I never dealt with laptops before in this way, so I ASSUMED that a noisy fan is just that. A noisy fan. So yeah, I guess not knowing something doesn't free someone from the responsibility that comes with consequences of not knowing.

Still I think it comes down to morals and ethics. Whenever I am selling something I try to be as honest and detailed as possible, even if it will hurt me as a seller. For example if I am selling a mobo that is missing a cable, or a manual or whatever, I will mention it's not there even when the buyer didn't not ask for it. If something I am selling has scratch on it, I will say that even if the buyer never asked about scratches. And when I was selling a Playstation 2 a while ago which seemed like it had a developing issue with it's dvd drive, I said that it feels like it may die at any time - not just "it makes weird noises".

Next time, I will be a lot more specific when I am buying something and asking questions about the state of the item I am buying.
 
Take the money for the fan, try to fix it. Him not paying return shipping is reasonable since he already paid to ship it to you.
 
Can we get the actual conversation? The way things are worded makes a world of difference.
 
offering to pay for the fan replacement is very good i think. Even on desktops a noisy fan means a clicking fan - next time maybe google around to see what a noisy fan can lead to? Sounds like the seller covered the issues with the fan (from the sound of the way it arrived that is IMO unacceptable), but the seller is right, him offering to cover the fan is quite good, alot of sellers wouldn't since they would assume that the buyer was aware of it.
 
You need to put the exact words here if you want an objective opinion, but several things off the bat.

A fan error is probably just that, it turns off a system as a fail safe, it does not necessarily mean it's dying.
People's definition of "fine" vary greatly and again the exact description matters.
It really does not matter what the thing costs elsewhere, you chose to accept his price.
Even EBAY requires you to pay for return shipping, you are not dealing with retailers who can just write costs off and even then they sometimes require you to return it on your own time and dime AND pay a restocking fee.
 
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While it sucks that the laptop was dirty, the fan noise was disclosed before the sale. I would definitely just take the money for the fan and be happy with that. It is really not a big deal to replace the fans on the T61s, here is a video I made of me doing one-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Od48R4XxlU
 
yeah, get the fan replacement. now if you do get it replaced and there are other issues then you might have to cut your losses
 
Money for the fan is reasonable here though have you tried just cleaning out the fan? May be spinning slowly and tripping the RPM monitor.

You bought a used laptop missing half of it's vital components meaning you wouldn't be able to test it. Both solutions offered by the seller are more than reasonable especially considering it's been 2 weeks.
 
danyune said:
Well in my honest opinion, I would say that he is not at fault.

He notified you that there were issues and that the noise coming from the laptop could potentially be damaging, causing an eventual breakdown.

Now if he said "laptop is in perfect condition" then you received it that way, then yes he would be at fault, but the fact that he already notified you of such issues I wouldn't put blame on him.

If you installed windows, then to him it was able to run.
When I bought a laptop without a hard drive, I just tested to see if it could get into bios and if it could boot up to "DISK ERROR - NO OS" or such.

Sorry for your troubles, but in my opinion you knew you were buying a potentially defective laptop by being notified of the noise. I'm sure others will disagree as this is just my personal opinion
Click to expand...

but I remember the seller specifically telling me that the fan works, and the laptop is FINE. I have his reply to me to back up what I am saying.
Click to expand...

Seller stated the laptop to be fine, depending on his definition of FINE it could be different. To me, fine = working.

He never stated the random issues/shut downs. It is the sellers fault.

He is un-professional, the seller replies saying that the buyer was lucky... what? lucky? It's like he's taunting him about him being lucky.

" Yo man, you're lucky you even got this laptop for this price, just shut up and clean it. "

What the seller did right was offer the refund, though shipping should've been covered by him as well. Also the replacement fan offer from him, this could have been done with fair rules on both sides.

" Hey if I get the fan and the problem persists, I will take a refund - fan cost. "

Something along those lines..
 
I see both parties being at fault. 1: Buyer didn't completely understand the basics of laptop cooling or fan bearings in general, 2: Seller should not have used the word 'fine' in his communication, even though it seems that all inner electronic components work other than the fan, which may have been noisy (but working) when he shipped it, but is now non-working after being shipped.

IMO, the seller should have cleaned it before shipping, but that point is fairly moot. I find the seller offering to pay for the fan to be a fair deal, and if it were my purchase I would jump on that in a heartbeat.

The biggest takeaway from this though is that a noisy fan is a dying fan, doesn't matter whether it's a desktop fan, laptop fan, oscilating pedastal fan, ceiling fan, or vehicle radiator fan.
 
ibex333 said:
Here's the main issue:

I bought this laptop knowing there was no hard drive inside, no battery, no DVD drive and no charger. I ordered all these parts and had to wait about 2 weeks for all of them to arrive because the ebay seller who sold me the charger and battery sent me wrong items and I had to go through the whole charade to get replacements. Anyway, I finally go them, turned the laptop on, installed windows and.... The laptop shut off after about 3 min.
I restarted, and yet again it shut off after emitting a whirring noise from the inside.

I restarted yet again, and this time during POST I got a message "fan error" and laptop shut off immediately.

<SNIP>
I replied by saying that this is not the point. the point is that he failed to explain to me in detail that he was selling me a dying laptop. I was cool with a noisy laptop, but I wasn't supposed to expect it was dying since the seller specifically told me the laptop is FINE.
<SNIP>
Again, the only thing I was warned about in advance was the noise. As far as I was concerned I was buying a working laptop.
Click to expand...

Couple of things bothering me here:

#1. If the laptop ran long enough to install windows it surely ran for MORE THAN 3 MINUTES during the install without triggering the fan monitor shut-down. Something doesn't add up.

#2. IMHO the time to make the important decision to keep or return was when you opened the package and saw the filthy condition. If it was so easy to clean up why didn't the seller clean it up before sending it to you? Says a lot about the mind-set of the seller. (Danger! Will Robinson! Danger!)

I'm curious: Per the [H] trading suggestions, did you exchange or get personal contact information from the seller?
 
tarlog said:
Couple of things bothering me here:

#1. If the laptop ran long enough to install windows it surely ran for MORE THAN 3 MINUTES during the install without triggering the fan monitor shut-down. Something doesn't add up.

#2. IMHO the time to make the important decision to keep or return was when you opened the package and saw the filthy condition. If it was so easy to clean up why didn't the seller clean it up before sending it to you? Says a lot about the mind-set of the seller. (Danger! Will Robinson! Danger!)

I'm curious: Per the [H] trading suggestions, did you exchange or get personal contact information from the seller?
Click to expand...


Pretty much this: "If the laptop ran long enough to install windows it surely ran for MORE THAN 3 MINUTES during the install without triggering the fan monitor shut-down."
Also, since it appears he was parting the laptop out, that should have been a clue the previous owner didn't deem it worthy to repair.
I would take his offer and let it be.
 
We use the T61 laptops where I work and what is being described is exactly what happens when the fan assembly needs to be replaced. It will be noisy for awhile and eventually you will start getting the messages about fan errors and it will shutdown. Most likely, when it was sold, it was just making noise. By the time you installed Windows on it, the fan may have decided to die. I think that's a chance you take when you get a laptop with a noisy fan. The fan is easy to replace, I've replaced several. Take the money for the fan, it takes about 45 minutes to replace.
 
Fix Me said:
We use the T61 laptops where I work and what is being described is exactly what happens when the fan assembly needs to be replaced. It will be noisy for awhile and eventually you will start getting the messages about fan errors and it will shutdown. Most likely, when it was sold, it was just making noise. By the time you installed Windows on it, the fan may have decided to die. I think that's a chance you take when you get a laptop with a noisy fan. The fan is easy to replace, I've replaced several. Take the money for the fan, it takes about 45 minutes to replace.
Click to expand...

This is probably the best way to go about it. Seller did however offer to replace the fan and the seller also told you about the fan issue so it certainly wasn't a bait and switch situation. The seller didn't handle the issue as professionally as he could've but it's a personal transaction and not some brick and mortar retail so it's not exactly surprising.
 
Fan replacements on those T61s are easy. Personally I think the seller is somewhat in the wrong but as the first reply said, if the fan is making noise you can bet it's going to die sooner rather than later.

I would be a little annoyed but if he's giving you money to replace the fan, just take it and fix it. It's not a huge deal and certainly not worth sending back the whole shebang if you got a good deal in the first place.

tarlog said:
Couple of things bothering me here:

#1. If the laptop ran long enough to install windows it surely ran for MORE THAN 3 MINUTES during the install without triggering the fan monitor shut-down. Something doesn't add up.
Click to expand...

KWH said:
Pretty much this: "If the laptop ran long enough to install windows it surely ran for MORE THAN 3 MINUTES during the install without triggering the fan monitor shut-down."
Click to expand...

What he said was that it ran for 3 minutes AFTER he installed Windows. Not 3 minutes total.
 
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