Help with old computer please

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AndonSage

Gawd
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Jan 19, 2007
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My roommate currently has an old computer with an Athlon 1800, ASUS motherboard, 768MB RAM and Windows XP Home. He purchased it from a local store for $300. He only uses his computer to surf the net and play music, so can get by with an inexpensive computer. Anyway, I'm sitting at my computer reading the [H]ard forum when I hear... "Quick, come see what my computer is doing!" Oh boy... (BTW, I had him using AVG Anti-Virus so I don't think a virus was the problem)

Some backstory... he was having problems with the computer locking up about a month ago, and it progressively got worse. I am not a hardware person, but I tried to find out what the problem was. Booting in safe mode, the computer would freeze up after loading "mup.sys." Searching the Internet, I came up with an article that basically said the ESCD on the motherboard was corrupt, so I went into the BIOS and it had an option to reset the ESCD, which I used. The computer then ran fine for a couple of days, but then started freezing again. I told my roommate that I thought his motherboard was going bad, and I had no idea what to try to fix it, and suggested the next time he buy from the Dell Outlet store and get a real warranty. The store that he purchased the computer from wanted $80 just to run diagnostics. I've never built a computer... the most I've done is install memory, video cards and DVD drives. The next day he tried booting up again and everything was working, and had been working for the past week, until today.

Back to today... So I run upstairs to look at his computer, to find that Windows is installing from the Reinstallation CD I got for my Dell computer (which he had previously asked to borrow during the freezing problems). The installation then stops, saying an error had happened and Windows Setup had stopped so as to not cause problems. At that point, I figure his hard drive is hosed and that we'll have to format the hard drive and reinstall everything. Turning the computer off and back on, we get this screen (which was the one he originally saw before hitting F1 and then calling me upstairs):

---------------------------------------------------------
Award Medallion BIOS v6.0, An Energy Star Ally
Copyright (C) 1984-2001, Award Software, Inc.

ASUS A7V333-X ACPI BIOS Revision 1002

Award Plug and Play BIOS Extension v1.0A
Initialize Plug and Play Cards...
PNP Init Completed

Trend ChipAwayVirus(R) On Guard

Detecting Primary Master ... WDC WD400BB-00DGA0
Detecting Primary Slave ... None
Detecting Secondary Master ... Hewlett-Packard CD-Write Plus 8100
Detecting Secondary Slave ... None

Primary master drive fails

Press F1 to continue, DEL to enter SETUP
10/22/2002-VT8367/VT8235-A7V333-X
---------------------------------------------------------

Based on the prior freezing up and article from the Internet, I think his motherboard has gone bad, and that the problem is actually the HDD controller on the mobo instead of the actual HDD. But I really don't know for sure.

Is there any way to salvage this computer? Due to it's age, I don't know if we could even find a motherboard that would work. If we could find a motherboard, I suppose I could buy a book about Building PC's (any suggestions on that) or find a web site that has instructions.

So... any suggestions on what to do? Is it worth trying to fix, or should he just call it a loss and get something from the Dell Outlet store?
 
Was the cmos settings set to default settings? Also, is there another HDD available to install to check to see if it's a mobo problem? I see the WDC WD400BB you mentioned. I have this exact same HDD. I had a problem with it where I could not install windows on this drive. I thought it was the PC but, later found out it was the disk. Your HDD may be hosed.
 
Either the hard drive is hosed, or it's the motherboard. The easiest way to determine would be to download some bootable HDD diagnostic software, burn it onto a CD, and run it from the computer. (Make sure you set up the BIOS so that it reads from the CD/DVD drive first.)

(Based on the model code, I believe that your friend has a Western Digital hard drive. But if I'm wrong, the page that I linked to earlier has diagnostic software from all of the major HDD manufacturers.)

If you can't even run the bootable CD, then the problem is the motherboard. If you can run the program from the CD and an "error code" comes up, check online to see what it means. (Likely, the hard drive is either corrupt or dying.) There's also the possibility that the motherboard and the hard drive are both acting up, and/or on their last legs.

Considering the age of your friend's computer, it may be more convenient in the long run to go ahead and get a new computer. But you should at least run the diagnostic software first, so you have a more accurate answer.
 
HardwareGuru said:
Was the cmos settings set to default settings?
Click to expand...

Well, when I was in the BIOS for the ESCD, I did hit F5 in the BIOS to set to default settings, if that's what you mean. But the computer ran fine for a week after that.

HardwareGuru said:
Also, is there another HDD available to install to check to see if it's a mobo problem?
Click to expand...

No.

HardwareGuru said:
I see the WDC WD400BB you mentioned. I have this exact same HDD. I had a problem with it where I could not install windows on this drive. I thought it was the PC but, later found out it was the disk. Your HDD may be hosed.
Click to expand...

The computer ran fine for over a month after he got it. Also, would an HDD problem reboot the computer so that the screen listed above was showing when he got home from work?
 
Also, you could try to put the hard drive on the same cable as the CD. Make sure to set the jumper on the CD to "slave". That will eliminate the primary HDD controller from the mix. If the HDD still fails, then the hard drive is the problem.
 
Try just simply swapping the hard drive and cd-rom drive cables (These are the wide flat cables coming out of each drive.) and see if it will still boot the installation disc. I've had problems with those crappy dell discs being warped and giving me a similar error when trying to reinstall the OS.
 
I'm having problems with my Easy CD & DVD Creator 6 software, and keep getting errors when using Creator Classic to make a bootable CD to check the WD drive :( I've tried both Verbatim CD-RW and CD-R, and I've used both a NEC writer and a Pioneer writer, so I'm assuming the software is the problem. Anyway, I'll need to either fix it (I haven't had a chance to post on the Roxio site yet) or get new CD/DVD burning software. Any recommendations for CD/DVD burning software?

Back to the original problem, when I checked in on my roommate's computer today, I was hearing a ka-chunk, ka-chunk type of sound from the HDD. So now I'm thinking the problem is with the HDD, and that a bad HDD could have caused the prior problems with corrupting drivers and such. At least, it should be easier and cheaper to buy an HDD to see if it's the problem than a motherboard.

A problem with that is that my roommate's computer didn't come with any Windows XP Home disks, just the Windows key on a sticker on the case. I only have XP Pro on my computers. One set of XP Pro discs came with my Dell, the other is the boxed Upgrade version of Pro. Can I use either of those to install Windows XP on a new drive since his key is for Home and my discs are Pro? If not, is there some other way to install XP Home on a new HDD?

Thanks for the help,

Gary
 
His Windows XP Home key will only work on that particular version of Windows XP Home. Windows XP Pro discs cannot be used to install Windows XP Home. You can call Microsoft's support number and get a new copy of the installation discs that go with your particular key but they will likely charge you for the shipping and a small fee for the discs. You can also PM me if you want and if I might have a copy of the installation discs you need. As far as I know it's not illegal for me to give you a copy of the installation disc as you do have a legal key for it. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.
 
You can also torrent a copy of the Windows discs if you've got a legitimate key.
 
Thanks for the offer, MjrStryker. I'll wait and see if anyone adds a correction, and get in touch with you tomorrow (Friday).
 
Fenris_Ulf said:
You can also torrent a copy of the Windows discs if you've got a legitimate key.
Click to expand...

I assume you mean bit torrent, but I've never used that so don't know exactly how that would work. I have AT&T U-verse Elite Internet (6 down / 1 up), so downloading is pretty fast. The only problem right now being that my CD burner software isn't working correctly.
 
Update: The CDWriterXP software worked great, and I was able to burn the iso disc. I booted up my roommate's computer from the CD, and was presented with the following:

Western Digital Data Lifeguard Tools

Choose:

[1] Run Data Lifeguard
[2] Create Data Lifeguard Bootable Diskette
[3] Create Data Lifeguard Diagnostics Bootable Diskette
[4] Quit

1,2,3,4?

I chose option 1 and after a couple of seconds, I got scrolling text on the screen that wouldn't quit:

Process ID=1767 ThreadID=1768
(4 or 5 lines of user registers here)
Fatal Error TNT.11020: application 'X:\DOS\INSTALL\DL.EXE' has caused an exception: page fault

So... was the scrolling error text due to a bad hard drive, or is it trying to say there is something wrong with the data on the CD? When I put the CD back into my computer, I got a nice looking flash-based window on my screen with graphics and options. I really don't know what to do now :(

Any suggestions? If I need to replace the hard drive, what's a recommended drive? Based on a few searches, it looked like we could get an 80GB EIDE drive for about $50.
 
Any drive from Samsung, Seagate/Maxtor, Hitachi, or (yes) Western Digital could suit your needs. The original drive, IIRC, was old, so it may have been on its last legs already.

I would suggest buying the hard drive from either ZipZoomFly or ClubIT. The way NewEgg packages and ships its hard drives scares a lot of people. If you already have all of the cables that you need, get an OEM version of the drive you're interested in to save yourself some money.

Keep us informed on your progress, and let us know whether or not getting a new HDD solves all of your (friend's) problems.
 
I believe you have a bad hard drive. But since a new 80GB drive costs around $50, it may be easier to just get a new drive.

Truthfully, though, the computer is old... the HDD "errors" may be a prelude of things to come. But we won't really know until after the hard drive gets replaced.
 
Microsoft told me that they couldn't provide replacement CDs for Windows XP Home, because his copy was OEM :(
 
I figured I'd post what happened...

We ended up buying an 80GB Seagate drive, and I installed it. I was able to create a Windows XP Home CD with links to files provided by MjrStryker. However, when I would boot up my roommate's computer with the XP CD, it would lock up after it loaded files at the "Setup is loading Windows..." screen. I figured there might be a problem with the CD I had burned, so I burned another one on a brand new CD. However, this CD had the same problem :( I was beginning to think there was a problem with his CD Writer reading discs burned on my computer, so we got a retail copy of Windows XP Home... and it had the same problem! So I had to tell him that I thought there was a problem with his CD Writer and we would need to get a new one. However, with the new HDD and a new CD Drive, we would be spending $100 to fix a $300 computer. At this point, we decided it wasn't worth it, and ordered a refurbished Dell Inspiron Desktop 530 Mini-tower: Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E4500 (2MB L2 Cache,2.20GHz,800 FSB), 2GB 667MHz RAM, Vista Home Premium, 250 GB SATA II Hard Drive, 16X DVD +/- RW w/dbl layer write capability... for $300, the same price he had paid for the Athlon 1800 w/ 768MB RAM and 40GB HDD! The only thing that's really missing from the Dell is a video card, but I think for what he does (Internet Surfing and playing music) that the onboard video should be good enough.

Does anyone know if onboard video is enough for playing Youtube Videos? If it's not, what's a recommendation for a video card? Would an 8600 of some type be good enough? I don't know what PSU comes with his new machine, so a video card requiring low power would be best. He has a 17" CRT monitor.
 
For web browsing and watching YouTube videos, it should be enough, especially since you have 2GB of RAM.

Sorry to hear that nothing worked on your friend's old system, but maybe it was a good thing. Get an external enclosure so you don't "waste" the Seagate drive (that is, if you haven't returned it already).
 
tiraides said:
For web browsing and watching YouTube videos, it should be enough, especially since you have 2GB of RAM.
Click to expand...

Cool :) It's what I figured, but I've never had a system that didn't have a video card.

tiraides said:
Sorry to hear that nothing worked on your friend's old system, but maybe it was a good thing. Get an external enclosure so you don't "waste" the Seagate drive (that is, if you haven't returned it already).
Click to expand...

The Seagate HDD was purchased from a place where we had 7 days to return it, and it's already been returned.
 
Apathy said:
piece of advice, never give money to dell. ever.
Click to expand...

Do most people feel like this about Dell? I have a totally different feeling towards them (Even though I won't be buying a Dell again, and will be building my own PC for now on).

Five years ago I bought my Dell (It cost $2500.. I got extra RAM, a better video card, and a bunch of other stuff). I never had one problem with this computer.. not one. The only two times I had to actually reformat and reinstall Windows was because of viruses, never a hardware problem. It's still a pretty good computer, considering its age. I can still play a lot of games on it, just with low settings and low FPS. It let's me use Photoshop, surf the web, listen to music, download stuff, all at the same time with no problems.

I think I just got lucky though.. I HAVE heard a lot of horror stories about Dell's. I'm so happy mine turned out to be pretty good.
 
AndonSage said:
tiraides said:
For web browsing and watching YouTube videos, it should be enough, especially since you have 2GB of RAM.
Click to expand...

Cool :) It's what I figured, but I've never had a system that didn't have a video card.
Click to expand...

For better performance, though, it is better to buy a video card capable of offloading video encoding/decoding tasks, in addition to playing the occasional game or two. But for your friend's needs, onboard video is fine.

Syribo said:
Do most people feel like this about Dell? I have a totally different feeling towards them (Even though I won't be buying a Dell again, and will be building my own PC for now on).
Click to expand...

I consider them to be a necessary evil... Dells are great because you could get a low-end or mid-range PC (oftentimes with a monitor) for less than you could building it yourself, and their warranties cover the entire PC system. However, their low-end isn't that great, and their high-end is overpriced. (And the customer service reps... :eek: )
 
tiraides said:
I consider them to be a necessary evil... Dells are great because you could get a low-end or mid-range PC (oftentimes with a monitor) for less than you could building it yourself, and their warranties cover the entire PC system. However, their low-end isn't that great, and their high-end is overpriced. (And the customer service reps... :eek: )
Click to expand...

Haha... Yeah, the customer service is REALLY bad. I remember the first time I had to reformat and I needed help with something... Oh boy. Horrible horrible HORRIBLE.
 
I've had a lot of problems with Dell systems, the first of which being the price. For roughly 30% less you could get a system with the same or better specs from HP than you can from Dell. Last Dell laptop I owned flat out refused to boot with two memory chips from the same manufacturer in it. I had two identical 512MB PC3200 sticks for it but it refused to use them both. It would accept one or the other, but never both. Then I put in another stick, same size, same speed, just different manufacturer, paired with one of the Corsair sticks and it booted just fine. >_< I've also had an Inspiron laptop that had keys that would repeatedly fall off for no apparent reason and the hardware button for the wireless card would engage by itself at random.

Anyway, those are just a couple of the problems I've had and the Dell support staff kept repeating the most simple mundane "possible fixes" for the problem, none of which would work, and afterward they would refer me to someone "higher up" who would go through the entire routine with me again. After the third "higher up" I stopped calling their tech support.

IMO if you want a new PC at a reasonable price, Dell's not the worst to pick, but it's far from the best.
 
Syribo said:
Do most people feel like this about Dell?
Click to expand...

I pretty ambivalent in regards to Dell. My two computers are both from Dell (one Dimension 8200 from 2002, the main one in my sig an XPS from 2003) and the only problem I've had was the monitor from the 2002 computer dying. It was still within the 3-year warranty and they replaced it. I've been able to upgrade the amount of RAM and the video card in my XPS. I was able to take advantage of employee discounts when I purchased my Dells. However, when I purchase a new computer later this year, I will purchase one from AVA Direct.

My roommate purchased the refurbished Dell because the price just couldn't be beat, and he doesn't need a gaming computer.
 
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