How have the WoW expansion packs ruined it?

Azureth

Azureth

Supreme [H]ardness
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Feb 29, 2008
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I never played WoW until TBC was out and even then I just play now and then, but I constantly hear people say the expansion packs ruined it, how so?
 
Some people complain it has gotten too easy. Too easy to reach high levels. Too easy to get geared No need to do earlier instances/raids. With RAF you can reach 60 in at most 2 weeks. Go straight to outlands, then to northrend. Run NAXX to get enough gear to run Ulduar. I dont really care either way. I still think its a dun game to play.
 
Wow use to be fun when I played. The most fun we had was running the molten core raids. As soon as the first expansion hit the guild broke up. Everyone started fighting and was just terrible.
 
To me, as soon as Blizzard came out with Battlegrounds (and later Arenas) the game was fundamentally ruined.

pre-TBC was just so interesting and the lore and story was pretty deep. When TBC hit everything went right out the window imo and WotLK is just a complete failure from a serious players perspective. Ask any semi serious raider who raids maybe 2-3 times a week for 2-3 hours a night and they will tell you WotLK is ezmode.

I remember trying to tackle UBRS with a 15 man group in greens/some blues........ back then you seriously had to earn your gear. And starting MC with your blue set pieces was fun. Now pretty much anyone can level to 80 in two weeks and be in full epics in less than a month of casual playtime with a raiding guild with any common sense.

IMO though WoW was garbage when battlegrounds hit. It was the defining moment for the game when it went from World of Warcraft to Battlegrounds of Failcraft. It essentially killed world PvP in one fell swoop.
 
Yea, I really had fun exploring and just having fun with PvE in the original WoW and then the expansion came out and it's gotten easier and easier. God forbid someone actually put actually effort into their character and be proud to beat something.
 
Few reasons in my opinion

1. World PVP fights were awesome. It was awesome to raid towns. Honor system and battlegrounds killed this

2. Each faction had different areas they leveled until about lvl 50. The xpacs have alliance and horde in the same lands

3. PVE content was the end game. A person carrying the hand of ragnarous was awesome and one of the best items in the game. Now everyone has purples.

4. No progression in instance based raiding. For example in vanilla WoW you had to run this instance this many times to do this instance and this instance to get to do Molten Core. Now as soon as you hit lvl 80 you can walk into Naxx. I actually thought attunements were interesting.
 
I think that the most fundamental flaw of the expansions is that it took the game in all sorts of different directions, losing much of the focus of vanilla wow.

Let me be more specific:
- In vanilla wow, the key main bosses: onyxia, rag, nefarian, hakkar, etc. were all villains that you learned about long before you had to kill them. You started hearing about them, dealing with their minions and their deeds at a very early level. So when you finally went to face them, it was like something you had been building towards for a long time, and as such you felt part of the story. More importantly, because of this sort of progression, difficulty ramped up slowly and nicely, so that you could get to level 60 two years after the game was released and still find people running every instance.


- In the expansions, there wasn't this sort of ramping up to something. You saw mag but had no idea of what was going on, Karazhan and ZA popped up out of nowhere, just like most of the 5 man instances. Additionally, the difficulty was so out of whack in terms of progression that basically content was nerfed every 3 months or so, making large parts of the content completely obsolete.
 
its kind of like, you work your ass off all summer to buy an xbox. You invite your friend over, he loves it. Next day, he invites you over to his house, and his parents bought him an xbox..
 
It's the constant changing evolution of gameplay. WOW is not the same game it was when it came out. PVP or PVE.

The game went through 3-4 major evolutions even in the classic wow. Major class mechanics changes, rules changes, elimination of world PvP.

This happens to many MMO's. I didn't play it, but I've heard stories of DAOC used to run old ruleset servers, so you could log in and pick what patch level you wanted to play at. It would be like WOW starting up non-expansion servers, or pre-AQ servers, or pre-molten core servers, etc.
 
I thought about this some over the past few weeks while reading other threads on WoW. For me, vanilla WoW was great. I was in 2 guilds one was 300+ people the other had 70.

The 300+ was cool as there were folks from all over the world. Austrailia, South Africa, New Zealand, China, Singapore, Canada, Europe, and of the US. Our guild always had something going on, and if you couldn't sleep there were people to play with. The vent conversations and accents were awesome! I remember doing stupid stuff like farming crusader enchant from 8pm to 5am...We got 5 of them and made a ton of gold. Raiding was possible and fun, though progress was slow as loot often went to people that would later decide raiding wasn't for them.

The 70 man guild was great as it was more intimate. We had players from all over the world as well. Gear went to where it would help the guild the most, not always fair, but progression as a unit was more than a single players. It was very focused, most of us were on at the same time and we tore up raids. Clearing MC, BWL, AQ, and getting crushed in Naxx.....There was a high coolness factor of being one of a handful of people on the server with full T2 gear and gear from AQ40 and Nax.

Then came BC, leveling again and 25 man raids, things just changed. Because everyone leveled at their own pace, we had some people maxed out in 10 days and others took over a month. It caused major fractions in guilds due to those wanting to raid and were at max level versus those wanting help, still leveling. It showed peoples true colors. I saw people that I had helped gear up turn into assholes refusing to help others. (I will add the 8 fastest levelers hit 70 in 10 to 12 days. I hit 70 in 14 days with a few others.)

After a while many longstanding guilds imploded. It became a lot easier to be only run with small set of people. Rub a raid/guild leader the wrong way, see you. Or if they rubbed you the wrong way, see you.

Raiding became somewhat easier, alternate paths to good gear opened up and were easier and required less time than raiding. I personally raided up until the release of MH. At that point I just didn't care anymore and did other things. I dropped the guild I was in and ran guildless. High end gear was seen on multiple people. Seeing 20+ people with glaives compared to only 2 or 3 people with a Thunderfury back in Vanilla WoW began to seem silly.

Very similar things happened in during the second expansion. Though getting gear was much much easier. The coolness factor of having top gear was gone as everyone had it. The time to reward was gone.
 
I'm not sure if any of you used to play Everquest but essentially to keep up with changing times and people progressing this is what happens in the MMO world. EQ went through multiple expansions, I remember spending tons of time to earn my gear with the 2nd and 3rd expansions. quitting and coming back years later, the gear was so far ahead that content you used to need 50+ people to kill now was something you could probably do with a group or even a few people. I went to one of the 3rd expansion (Velious) zones with a buddy of mine years ago as a healer and we duo'd a bunch of dragons I remember killing with large groups of people. Thats just what happens.. I do play wow and found Wotlk alot of fun, never got to high end vanilla WoW or BC.. the same friend from EQ has a rogue from high end BC era and he logged in to show me his gear the other day, it's all shit compared to Wotlk and he has over 100 days played on his charecter. Mine has 15 with the combined friend benefits to get free granted levels my char is decked out in Naxx 25 and PvP gear and i'd completely devestate my friend. Kind of sucks really but thats how it is with MMO's.
 
Menelmarar said:
It's the constant changing evolution of gameplay. WOW is not the same game it was when it came out. PVP or PVE.

The game went through 3-4 major evolutions even in the classic wow. Major class mechanics changes, rules changes, elimination of world PvP.

This happens to many MMO's. I didn't play it, but I've heard stories of DAOC used to run old ruleset servers, so you could log in and pick what patch level you wanted to play at. It would be like WOW starting up non-expansion servers, or pre-AQ servers, or pre-molten core servers, etc.
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Provided enough people signed up, and it wasnt a ghost server, I would definitely rejoin WoW if there was a "vanilla only" server. Having to go through outlands again really ruins the game for me.
 
so basically they made the game more newbie friendly and all the hardcore players started to cry because they're jealous at all the newbies owning them. Makes sense...
 
Aehs01 said:
I'm not sure if any of you used to play Everquest but essentially to keep up with changing times and people progressing this is what happens in the MMO world. EQ went through multiple expansions, I remember spending tons of time to earn my gear with the 2nd and 3rd expansions. quitting and coming back years later, the gear was so far ahead that content you used to need 50+ people to kill now was something you could probably do with a group or even a few people. I went to one of the 3rd expansion (Velious) zones with a buddy of mine years ago as a healer and we duo'd a bunch of dragons I remember killing with large groups of people. Thats just what happens.. I do play wow and found Wotlk alot of fun, never got to high end vanilla WoW or BC.. the same friend from EQ has a rogue from high end BC era and he logged in to show me his gear the other day, it's all shit compared to Wotlk and he has over 100 days played on his charecter. Mine has 15 with the combined friend benefits to get free granted levels my char is decked out in Naxx 25 and PvP gear and i'd completely devestate my friend. Kind of sucks really but thats how it is with MMO's.
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Well, yeah it's like that with every expansion. The problem is when it becomes like that between expansions. In tBC, early content (kara, normal instances, gruuls, mag) was completely outdated halfway through the expansion.

But, more importantly, at least for me, what sucked was how completely unfocused the entire lore of the game became. Spaceships, aliens, and bosses that suddenly you had to kill for no reason other than "they have loot." In Vanilla, you heard about hakkar, onyxia, etc around level 30 or 40, and you started preparing to fight them early. Not a "you will kill the leader of the blood elves AND of the trolls because they hate each other, even though they are both still in your alliance." And not a series of bosses who each betrayed each other, and you...
 
Its all relative. If Bliz had not any expansion pack up to this point, all the nerds would be complaining of how boring the game had become, and how badly they had ruined the game by failing to release any new content. People need something to complain about, it gonna be this, that, or the other thing.
 
SouLXIV said:
so basically they made the game more newbie friendly and all the hardcore players started to cry because they're jealous at all the newbies owning them. Makes sense...
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OR maybe people who liked warcraft for the lore were disappointed when space ships, robots and lasers started being a part of the game, and all pretense of being part of a continuing story went out of the window in order to make raiding and pvp accessible accessible to niche markets.

I don't care if everyone is in purples. I do care that major characters are made obsolete, redundant or irrelevant to keep the mudflation going.

Vanilla was just as newbie friendly as tBC.
 
I believe a few years ago in EQ they made progression servers so content must be defeated in order to get to the next areas. I played on opening day with all 200 people running around in each newbie zone kill stealing bats and trying to get to level 5. I assume Blizz will do this one day but it's far to early with content to do this I'd think right now.
 
The vocal minority on internet gaming forums cry foul about the changes to make the game more accessible. On some level I sympathize, but then I remind myself anybody who plays an MMO and simultaneously considers his/herself a hardcore gamer is a magnificent retard. I consider it to be similar to the starry-eyed nostalgic reminiscence with which some gamers look back at the early days of gaming and indeed the general psychological phenomena by which human beings reject most changes to the status quo.
 
SouLXIV said:
so basically they made the game more newbie friendly and all the hardcore players started to cry because they're jealous at all the newbies owning them. Makes sense...
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They definitely made it more newb friendly but for me it wasn't crying because I was getting owned it was crying because an expansion reset all my gear and achievements back to nothing and when I spent all the time/effort to raid/farm in a top end guild, months later blizzard patches it to give the items away for practically free. Good for my alts, not so much for my ego.

I killed Nefarian before AQ came out, I killed C'thun before Naxx was released and I killed Kel'thuzad before TBC and I wasted 3.5 months of my life grinding Grand Marshal BY MYSELF. In vannila-wow that meant something and I had gear to show for it.

When I killed Vashj and Kael'thas to break into BT and Hyjal that was a great achievement and the gear for a short while was something that set you apart. Killing Illidan was a major achievement and I took great pride in it until months later when every guild was able to bypass the newb-check of Vashj/KT and jump right into farm bosses in the beginning of Hyjal/BT.

When Sunwell came out I was ecstatic, it felt like a return to Naxx again, difficult bosses that required EVERY player to not fuck up a la 4H/Sapph/KT. M'uru was probably the most difficult fight to learn in WoW to date and KJ wasn't a pushover either and I felt incredible about clearing Sunwell but again 3.0 came and gave free epics to everyone and their dog.

3.0 nerfs were the last straw for me. I couldn't deal with people being given free toys that I'd worked my ass off for. I grinded Grand Marshal for the title and the gear to PVP with, that got turned to shit with the Honor system change. I made Gladiator for my ego and a pimp mount and as I hear it now that's basically a joke too if you run DK/Pally. I spent over 3 years at the top of the raiding game to get the best gear in the game just to have it given to everyone for free after a few months of waiting.


Point is the expansion ruined WoW for the hardcore player in my opinion.

/end rant
 
krameriffic said:
The vocal minority on internet gaming forums cry foul about the changes to make the game more accessible. On some level I sympathize, but then I remind myself anybody who plays an MMO and simultaneously considers his/herself a hardcore gamer is a magnificent retard. I consider it to be similar to the starry-eyed nostalgic reminiscence with which some gamers look back at the early days of gaming and indeed the general psychological phenomena by which human beings reject most changes to the status quo.
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It is not just about hardcore players and loot. anyone with an interest in the lore also felt disappointed. I reached 60 5 months before tbc, had 2 purples, but I liked killing hakkar and rag immensely more than when I did become hardcore and cleared Hyjal.

Not to mention that the "retard checks" of tbc made raiding a nightmare for a while, and then a cakewalk when nerfed.
 
I have mixed feelings when it comes to whether the expansions ruined the game or not. I think many of the changes made to make the game more accessible have alienated a lot of the more hardcore players over time. While they have increased subscriptions by quite a bit, I don't think the WoW of today is as good of a game as it used to be, particularly since 3.0.
 
roaf85 said:
Few reasons in my opinion

1. World PVP fights were awesome. It was awesome to raid towns. Honor system and battlegrounds killed this

2. Each faction had different areas they leveled until about lvl 50. The xpacs have alliance and horde in the same lands

3. PVE content was the end game. A person carrying the hand of ragnarous was awesome and one of the best items in the game. Now everyone has purples.

4. No progression in instance based raiding. For example in vanilla WoW you had to run this instance this many times to do this instance and this instance to get to do Molten Core. Now as soon as you hit lvl 80 you can walk into Naxx. I actually thought attunements were interesting.
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Rose-tinted glasses here.

1) World PvP was love it or hate it. Personally I found it pretty boring. Sure it was cool at first, but with no objective or benefit AT ALL it became pretty lame. It became a contest of which group had less to do that night than the other, and the "big fight" just winds down with a whimper.

2) Contradictory statement. If you liked world PvP so much, you should love areas with both alliance and horde. If there were no areas like this, there would hardly be any world PvP to begin with. A Crossing raid is only successful because noobs call out to the high levels to come save them, for example. Without this interaction, no one would care. That's why if an alliance party raids Zoram Strand, they'd never see any equal level opponents: no one gives a shit about that place. More faction separation = less world PvP.

3) Hand of Rag sucked. It sucked the day it was introduced and it sucked after they buffed it and it only got worse from there. There was a very, very brief period of time where it was marginally better than the best 2H'er for 2H fury warriors only. No other classes or specs (yes, not even MS), even then, it was debatable between the newly improved bonereaver's edge, and if you count BWL (which you should since Sulfuras sucked a LOT before the patch after BWL that improved it) you can't count out weapons like the Untamed Blade, with its proc and flurry is was beastly. All Sulfuras had going for it was the e-peen.

4) Attunements were interesting until it became a huge obstacle in logistics for organizing large raids. I'd like if there was a guild or raid leader type of attunement instead of having no attunements or individual attunements. Like a questline that required a guild to do (like part of the scepter of ahn'quiraj questline), however not everyone had to be present at each step, so the "key" would be bound to the guild. Entrance could be dependent on a guild key rank. Overall though, having no attunements works much better than having attunements.

If you're new to the game, you'll be in the best position as anyone ever has to have a chance to like/get into WoW. All the long-time subscribers have their "golden period" which they think is THE BEST EVER AND EVERYTHING AFTER RUINED IT.
 
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I quit WoW 2 months ago because the only part of the game I really enjoyed, raiding, became too frustrating and time consuming for the reward. I was in a GOOD guild, but learning a "new" hard-mode boss (same boss, but with a new trick and/or spell) could take WEEKS. We're talking, 20-40 hours or MORE doing the same exact thing over and over again. It gets old. And starts to piss you off when you get owned because some guy decides to disconnect/go afk/screw up badly.

all of this so you can have a chance at the item you want dropping and a chance to have it (because 5 other people want it too)
 
I was never into raiding that seriously, always just piggy'd off of my guild from time to time.

But the expansions ruined PvP... especially WOTLK
 
I think the community ruined WoW far more then Blizzard ever did. Just take a look at all the crap that gets spewed on Trade chat, not to mention if you want to pug something like Naxx10 on an alt you have to link achievements and practically be Ulduar geared.

Unless you are in a close knit guild of decent players the end game is more of a battle against the internet cool kids then it is actually playing the game.
 
I recommend chess.

Totally hardcore and never changes.

In answer to the original question: they haven't.

Any time you change anything some people will like it, some people won't.
MMOs taking place on the internets means the people who don't like changes SHOUT REALLY REALY LOUD about it, giving the impression there's some sort of majority consensus, while the actual majority continue on quietly enjoying themselves.
 
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MartinX said:
I recommend chess.

Totally hardcore and never changes.
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And yet, after 14 or so moves every game becomes a novelty (a game with a set of moves never recorded before).

Chess owns.

Anyways i'm a vanilla WoW ex-hardcore raider. Occasionally i'll go to a LAN cafe and see people playing some ezmode raids with 25 man pugs and getting their welfare epics and i'll lament about the time where you had to manually go through flight paths, ragnaros was a major ass cockblock (until his nerf patch), Vael the guild killer, and Twin Emps the guild decimator, and Hakkar the "WTF THIS FIGHT IS RIDICULOUS" pre and post nerf. Pre nerf he was retarded, post nerf he was retarded(ly easy). And they'll go "who the fuck is Ragnaros" and I just facepalm. I'll talk about how the Barman Shanker was the most OP dagger ever for rogues(pre attack speed AP nerf), and if you had an Arcanite Reaver, you were top shit as a warrior(once again, pre attack speed AP nerf). Dal'Rends sets were ninja'd by hunters and paladins, and the honor system took severe dedication to hit rank 14. I'll talk about how paladins used to hit like soggy towels and they'll look at me like i'm on crack. How shadow priests in PVP gear were ridiculous and how only our server had 2 thunderfuries and 3 Hand's of Rag.

And yet they don't actually know of any of that. Thusly i've come to the conclusion that nobody who currently raids in WoW was playing back before patch 1.10

Personally my favorite achievement ever was not killing nef, or having my guild (top on server at the time) break apart on Twin Emps, or even killing Rag. No our top achievement was 17 manning Onyxia back when it actually meant something.
 
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guitarslingerchris said:
They definitely made it more newb friendly but for me it wasn't crying because I was getting owned it was crying because an expansion reset all my gear and achievements back to nothing and when I spent all the time/effort to raid/farm in a top end guild, months later blizzard patches it to give the items away for practically free. Good for my alts, not so much for my ego.

I killed Nefarian before AQ came out, I killed C'thun before Naxx was released and I killed Kel'thuzad before TBC and I wasted 3.5 months of my life grinding Grand Marshal BY MYSELF. In vannila-wow that meant something and I had gear to show for it.

When I killed Vashj and Kael'thas to break into BT and Hyjal that was a great achievement and the gear for a short while was something that set you apart. Killing Illidan was a major achievement and I took great pride in it until months later when every guild was able to bypass the newb-check of Vashj/KT and jump right into farm bosses in the beginning of Hyjal/BT.

When Sunwell came out I was ecstatic, it felt like a return to Naxx again, difficult bosses that required EVERY player to not fuck up a la 4H/Sapph/KT. M'uru was probably the most difficult fight to learn in WoW to date and KJ wasn't a pushover either and I felt incredible about clearing Sunwell but again 3.0 came and gave free epics to everyone and their dog.

3.0 nerfs were the last straw for me. I couldn't deal with people being given free toys that I'd worked my ass off for. I grinded Grand Marshal for the title and the gear to PVP with, that got turned to shit with the Honor system change. I made Gladiator for my ego and a pimp mount and as I hear it now that's basically a joke too if you run DK/Pally. I spent over 3 years at the top of the raiding game to get the best gear in the game just to have it given to everyone for free after a few months of waiting.


Point is the expansion ruined WoW for the hardcore player in my opinion.

/end rant
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I totally understand you. however, I still fail to see the connection between making the game more newbie friendly and "ruining it". You said it yourself, you're not mad because the game mechanic itself is different in anyway, you're mad because other players now don't have to work as hard as you did before for a different set of gear. So basically, you didn't LOSE anything, you're just jealous that other people are getting the same gear as you, and you are no longer king. I'm sorry but that sounds kind of ignorant.
 
SouLXIV said:
I totally understand you. however, I still fail to see the connection between making the game more newbie friendly and "ruining it". You said it yourself, you're not mad because the game mechanic itself is different in anyway, you're mad because other players now don't have to work as hard as you did before for a different set of gear. So basically, you didn't LOSE anything, you're just jealous that other people are getting the same gear as you, and you are no longer king. I'm sorry but that sounds kind of ignorant.
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Yes but you lose any advantage you had by spending the time and effort to gain it. How can you not be pissed at going on 35 BWL runs to get your tier 2 set and some asshat gets equivalent gear with 1/10th the time and effort?

Basically the best example I can come up with is just lets say the ONLY way to get an Xbox 360 is you work for Microsoft for 40 hours, then suck Bill Gates dick, then you have to run 20 miles in a day. So you go through all of that shit and now you have an Xbox 360. You're top shit, people know it, you spent the time getting it. Then the very next month microsoft goes "oh hai guyz, new rules, you can get an xbox 360 if you just work for us for about 6 hours"

Now everyone and their goddamn dog has that same thing, only YOU spent 20x the time and effort.

Besides, the real griping is that now the 40 man raids are gone, and the 25's are turning ezmoad, the game isn't challenging enough to those who actually enjoy working out raid bosses and doing crap before anyone else. I mean... the challenge isn't there. Molten Core was great fun (and frustrating, but learning the fights is great) when you're in UBRS/LBRS/strat blues learning the fights for the first time and coming together as a raid group for the first time. I remember my very first Molten core. Sure we wiped on Luci for 3 straight hours then called it a night, but it was progression, it was epic, it really was FUN. I mean, we did the first pull not knowing what the expect, 20 members of our raid died and we went "holy shit guys, buckle your seat belts for this one"

The idea of progression seems to be largely gone. I mean we knew we needed T1's before we could hit BWL full force, we knew we needed the T2's before we could get into AQ40. And we DEFINATLY knew we needed the 2.5's to make any headway into Naxx. Progression was key and it sparked competition and guild rivalries, I thought it was great. Now I can hit 80 and collect my welfare epics in a few weeks and call it a day.
 
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Expansions improved on most things but the leet status which is why most people played. High end game got easier, but people are also use to having to use strategy. You mostly just see the "oh <insert old hardcore game here> is the prime of gaming and you are noob if you like anything else" arguments against it. So if you liked the grind of 40man raids, you will always be like, wow was in its prime 3 years ago, while most people just ignore you. I understand the way you feel (Rivaled for 1 and 2 spots on guilds during MC,BWL,AQ race), but I play casual now and enjoy the changes so lucky me and many others. Sacrifices made for the better imo. PVP is a extremely better nowdays imo. Vanilla wow pvp = grind fest.
 
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next-Jin said:
To me, as soon as Blizzard came out with Battlegrounds (and later Arenas) the game was fundamentally ruined.
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I feel the same. The game has just become a dick measuring contest. Its way too easy now, seems they have catered it towards kids and teenagers, I'd like to play it still and have the feeling of when it first came out, but that will never happen. So I choose just to let it go. I'd like to remember the game for what it was during year 1 and 2.
 
To the people who have problems with them: What would have you done? Just not release anything at all? Just seems obvious that when new stuff comes out your old stuff doesn't matter as much, sucks, but that's life.
 
I disagree. I have played WoW since the closed Beta (Tauren and gnomes didn't have mounts, palys had no talent trees, mages HAD to go fire/arcane mix to even get any kind of mana regen or Evocate with the 10 minute cool down) and was glad they reduced the grind needed for rep. I hated having to fight tooth and nail for Scourge stones, hoodoo piles, coins, charms and statues just for a paltry amount of rep. All that did was make you have to grind over and over again to get a small reward back.

The changes made from BC made it so you could spend less time doing repetative grinds for a specific rep and more time actually running instances, raids or any of the plethora of side rep quests. I had my epic flyer and Netherdrake before I even set foot into Kara and did almost everything in BC. Pre-BC I barely scratched the surface as I had to spend the majority of my time grinding for money or rep to even get enough supplies to have a chance at going into anything.
 
Patch 3.2 is also the stupidest thing I've seen in a while. The entire raid is just a stupid "arena" (a box) with an additional, slightly bigger underground box for the last boss. No trash mobs, and none of the bosses even have new models (only recolored, re-hashed crap)

And you're supposed to wait months and months for that? not worth $15 a month.
 
Azureth said:
To the people who have problems with them: What would have you done? Just not release anything at all? Just seems obvious that when new stuff comes out your old stuff doesn't matter as much, sucks, but that's life.
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As I said before, my problem is not that things got too easy, but how they designed everything.

So yeah, of course they should release expansions, but they shouldnt mess with what made them popular in the first place.

Let's tackle the first problem of the expansions: Lore. Spaceships? robots? time travel? You kill both Zul Jin because he didnt like the BEs AND Kael? BEs on horde?

Now, if you throw away the lore, the game basically becomes an e-peen contest where gear is all that matters.

Now, I have absolutely no problem with everyone running around in "welfare epics." My problem is with the raid progression that makes them necessary.


In vanilla, the first few raid bosses were very easy, difficulty ramped up slowly, and the major roadblocks generally only happened at the end of instances. The progression within the raid game felt "natural," and as such three years after release some would still be in ZG, others in MC, others in Naxx, etc.

With tBC, blizz went into a completely different direction. Instead of a nice, smooth progression you had ridiculously powerful bosses which dropped awesome loot, who were then nerfed the next patch for all to enjoy. Shade, nightbane, etc. were ridiculously hard, and then became ridiculously easy, same for grull, mag, vashj. etc. Personally, I preferred the first style of progression.

The second one made it all about the gear.
 
To everyone who complains wow is too easy...

Killed Algalon?

Better yet, 11.4 Million players or so in the world. Last time I checked, about 50 have killed Yogg 0 Keeper..... YYYUUUUPPPPP toooooooooo easy, everyone is doing it.
 
Most of the people who say the expansions "ruined wow" are usually the people with the biggest ego's when it comes to how "l33t" they are. Remember that everyone pays the same $15/month and should have reasonable access to the same content. Blizzard has done a very good job of making most new encounters difficult at first and then nerfing them over time to allow a larger amount of their PAYING customer to experience it.

Honestly...if you feel that because you are so damn awesome that only should get to see while everyone else should go outside a play a game of hide and go fuck themselves....well...blah.
 
A lot of people have hit the nail on the head. Vanilla wow required you to WORK for things. I tell you, getting attuned so i could run Onyxia. I still remember that quest chain. Getting attuned for MC, hell yah! Downing the last boss in ZG (can't remember the name), oh baby!

Then TBC came out, and all that work, sweat, effort, and FUN, was suddenly worthless. Didn't matter that you had your tier 1,2,3 gear, you could get BETTER gear in a couple of weeks in outland.

That was the biggest single mistake IMHO. They basically made vanilla wow a joke with TBC. And WotLK did the same thing, only not as blatantly.
 
spugnor said:
A lot of people have hit the nail on the head. Vanilla wow required you to WORK for things. I tell you, getting attuned so i could run Onyxia. I still remember that quest chain. Getting attuned for MC, hell yah! Downing the last boss in ZG (can't remember the name), oh baby!

Then TBC came out, and all that work, sweat, effort, and FUN, was suddenly worthless. Didn't matter that you had your tier 1,2,3 gear, you could get BETTER gear in a couple of weeks in outland.

That was the biggest single mistake IMHO. They basically made vanilla wow a joke with TBC. And WotLK did the same thing, only not as blatantly.
Click to expand...

Killed all 4 Keepers to open up Algalon?

Killed Algalon?

Killed Yogg 0 Keeper?

Or are those just too much work?
 
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