How long will Nvidia and Ati keep sidestepping?

AltTabbins

AltTabbins

Fully [H]
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Jul 29, 2005
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Remember the days when you had that top of the line 9800xt? You rocked Half Life 2 and Ghost Recon at full settings without a hiccup. Then the x800xtx came out. It was a HUGE upgrade and the very sight of the box made you drool in anticipation for when you buy one?

--Then came the x1800 and x1900 series. They ruled at the top of the charts for a long time. You waited for the next card to come out to blow your friends green-card out of the water yet again..

--In comes the 2900gt. While its a step up, your friend's new 8800gtx blows it away.. no problem though, its not a high end card right? We will wait for the 3 series to come out.

--Then it happened.. the stars aligned and Ati came out with their new top end card.. the 3 series was here.... but wait. Your buddies gtx still beats it. Whats going on?


Nvidia users had even more to cheer about when they replaced their top end 5 series card with a 6800gt. It was well over double their old card's power. The jump in performance was mind blowing.

--Enter the 8800gtx. This thing was FAST! It would TEAR up your dx9 games while you complained about vista coming out soon and how you weren't going to upgrade until more dx10 games came out.

--A year later comes the 8600gts and 8800gts 320mb. They were quite a step down from your 8800gtx but nice to see new cards available.

--8800gt comes out and blitzes the market. Not a new card per say.. but still had a good place in the market.. But where is the next big thing? Wheres my next step UP?

--We all waited for the 9 series to come out.. it would be sweet.

--Enter the 9600 (not to be mistaken for the old ati 9600.. which was a pretty nice card too for its time). We knew it wasn't a top end card, but hey.. its a X6 card.. its mainstream.

--Then the 9800gtx benchies come.. you click on the link and realize that they just took ANOTHER step sideways.




How long will this last? When is the next upgrade worthy card going to come?.. C'mon Nvidia, C'mon Ati.. give us something.
 
This was actually a good read, but have you tried emailing nvidia and ati? figure that would get their attention alittle more.
 
but no one is getting gipped, they are offering faster card for less money, I don't see why everyone is crying so much.
 
Sure, a cheaper card is always nice.. but what about those who have 8800gts' or gtx's? I have owned my 8800gts 320mb for over a year now. Even the 8800 Ultra isn't a noteworthy upgrade in my opinion. I have had SLI setups before and I wasn't impressed. I would rather have a single top end card.
 
Didnt the 8800GTX and GTS 640 launch in November and the 8800GTS 320/8600 in January or Febuary? If not, it was only a couple of months, not a year.

They have been side stepping for some time and its not actualy to bad of a thing in my opinion. Look at it this way, each time these newer low/mid grade cards come out, something new is implemented.

Weve had die shrinks for better temps and lower power consumption. Weve had the introduction of UVD. Weve had the implementation of HDCP over Dual Link DVI. Weve had the introduction of ATIs Powerplay Technology. Weve had the introduction of sound through a video card(HDMI and Optical). Were about to get Hybrid-Croosfire and Hybrid-SLI (sure its only on the low end this generation but just wait). Weve seen two GPUs being slapped onto a single PCB. Nvidias claiming were going to see the incorporation of Ageia Physx in its current (and I assume future) GPUs.

It takes time and money to develope these thing and they might as well sell them. If they get these options out there, they can see how people respond and what else they can do with them. All these low mid end cards might not mean a whole lot to a high end gamer now, but all of these combound on the TRUE next gen flagship cards are just going to make it that much better.

I have been a 2560x1600 with a 8800GTX SLI set-up for some time and have become very board with PC gaming. I keep doing small builds for fun around these new video cards. Its nice to see how far you can push a system performance wise on as little power as possible. Its strange now that Im not playing games so much, using these new cards has opened my eyes to a whole other aspect of computers. For me, its no longer about how far you can overclock every single component or how high you can score on a benchmark. But how well you can build a total package for eveything else besides gaming.

And with the rest of the 9 series right over the horizon, we can only guess what innovations Nvidia will. Theyve been very hush, hush so not much information is out yet. I cant see why they would just release a rebaged G92 with no new features. If they dont bring anything new to the table then your point is justified.
 
ToxicBanana said:
but no one is getting gipped, they are offering faster card for less money, I don't see why everyone is crying so much.
Click to expand...

I'd like to be able to max out Crysis with a single card configuration. Beisdes...my 8800 GTX is over a year old now, why is there nothing better? Why is the Ultra still the best card?

Nvidia really isn't innovating that much lately, there latest and greatest thing is the ESA technology thing, which is neat and all but that's just more "ESA" ready crap I have to buy.
 
The 9800GTX is not replacing the 8800GTX, The 9800X2 is.
Assume a 80% dual GPU efficiency, thats 14k x2 -20% = 22.5k on one card for $450 before overclocking.

Thats only on what I have read, only time will tell how that 9800X2 turns out.
 
It's simple. Nvidia is in the same position as Intel. ATI/AMD lost the performance crown and they've been playing catch up for awhile now.

The 8800GTX debuted awhile ago (about two years ago if I am not mistaken.) and it is still going strong. Nvidia is going to sit back and milk the 8xxx series architecure for all it's worth. Those profits will pay for the research and developement cost for their next gen Geforce X card that should be released later in the year or possibly next year.

ATI/AMD is taking a beating in the CPU and GPU market. Intel and Nvidia can just sit back and chill while ATI/AMD plays catch up.

I think ATI's next gen cards will be awesome, but I would not be surprised if Nvidia steals ATI's thunder by launching their own next gen product afterwards. Nvidia seems to enjoy crushing the hype circulating around ATI's cards.
 
Yes, it would be nice if they did a proper update to their graphics line but really, who needs it? I'm still touting my 8800 GTS 640 from November 2006 and it's all gravy. Aside from Crysis, which is -one- game, have we really seen a game that can't make due with today's selection?

I mean, I know there are people who "need" bleeding edge without even needing it but I am pretty sure those people don't make up more than 5-10% of their customer base.
 
Going from my 9500Pro (the one that was a downclocked 9700) to my X800XT PE(got it at launch) was the last time I was really EXCITED about the upgrade. Now, my video card upgrades are just routine. I want a card to come out that is the same impressive leap in performance we saw from R300 to R400.
 
I got a dual 8800 GTS 320 setup... it is sufficient for everything except Crysis... which is just an average game with awesome graphics (and yes, I do have it.)... I wont upgrade until one of the camps comes out with a card that can squeeze out steady 60 fps+ in Crysis.
 
ToxicBanana said:
ATI fell behind, nVidia is taking advantage of the situation.
Click to expand...

well yeah its knda like intel with AMD.

AMD is falling apart at every seam, Intel has nothing to do but watch, so they do their work slowly, releasing processors that are teh fastest ever while AMD can't even get their phenom to compete neck and neck with a Conroe Quad 6600.

is thats same way with nividia. they dominate, so they see no need in realeasing new cards. the graphics market is dead, and it'll prolly be until ATi comes out with a revolutionary card (and when they do, I'm on it).
 
Honestly, I do hope I am wrong when I say this as I hope it is sooner. But My guess is AMD will chase after Nvidia with Nvidia just sidestepping.

Then Larrabee will come out and Nvidia will have something to worry about and get off their asses if they want to stay in business.
 
Cool write up. Well said. I liked.

The 9 series is not a new generation. It's the same shit as the 8 series. There is exactly no reason for me to upgrade my 8800.
 
no, there is NO REASON to go from an 8 series to a 9 series.

i can see going from a 2900 card to a 3800 card though. thats a good upgrade.
 
To answer the question: Both will continue to take action in the direction of superior profit. That's the end-all be-all answer for any question of this caliber.

If anyone thinks for one second that ATI and NVIDIA are competing to have the fastest card, then they need their head examined. It's all about the profit. Period
 
Not sure why people keeping dogging AMD/ATi. The 3870 X2 is the FASTEST card available.

The OP is asking for a true step forward, as opposed to a sidestep, and that GPU is without a doubt the RV770 or R700. GDDR5... 55nm... 2nd generation DX10.1... 50% improvement over the 3870 (confirmed by ATi)...

I'm sure nvidia's GT200 will be impressive in it's own ways, but I can't see them releasing it anytime soon, since the 9800 gx2 and 9800gtx are soon to be released. Both of which are sidesteps.
 
Choppyferrari said:
Not sure why people keeping dogging AMD/ATi. The 3870 X2 is the FASTEST card available.

The OP is asking for a true step forward, as opposed to a sidestep, and that GPU is without a doubt the RV770 or R700. GDDR5... 55nm... 2nd generation DX10.1... 50% improvement over the 3870 (confirmed by ATi)...

I'm sure nvidia's GT200 will be impressive in it's own ways, but I can't see them releasing it anytime soon, since the 9800 gx2 and 9800gtx are soon to be released. Both of which are sidesteps.
Click to expand...

we;'re doging AMD, not ATi.

granted theyre both the same company.

but AMD is doing terribly.
ATi is doing great.
 
Choppyferrari said:
Not sure why people keeping dogging AMD/ATi. The 3870 X2 is the FASTEST card available.
Click to expand...

For benching its faster, otherwise its on par with a GTX and still slower than an Ultra. Read the [H] review.

Even if it was faster it still took them two years, and the best they could do was a dual card solution.

Its really sad, I miss the good 'ol days with my 9800Pro 256mb.
 
Ati' 3 series was NOT a top end card, when they released it they said they werent competing or making a "top end" card they were releasing mid / low range cards.

ATI has not made a "top" end card since the 2900 XT which sucked with any eye candy.


the 38070 as said isnt the fastest, Xfire doesnt work in all games.


9700 PRO was the days for me, before that thje Ti4600 ULTRA ruled! man many housr of grand theft auto on that card!
 
i sure would like to get excited again like i did when i went from a ATi 9800 Pro to a 6800GT.
 
I'm feeling better about my purchase of 2 8800 G92 GTSs all the time now...
 
I think that ATi is the one who is in trouble right now. They are now AMD, and now AMD has to fight both intel and nvidia. How can you focus on a battle when you have two enemies? Clearly something has to give, because right now nvidia and intel have superior products and can match the price.

The consumer has won if they are willing to shell out $250 for the 8800gt. I checked out the prices for other models, like the 8600gts and some of those older ATi cards and the prices are still insanely high! So the consumer is ahead, if they do some research first.
 
Said it before, I'll say it again.

nVidia hit a home run with the 8800 series architecture, and ATI's stumble after the purchase by AMD enabled them to rest on their laurels.

The problem with nVidia right now is they are back to playing reactionary market share. As opposed to actually innovating the next series of graphics architecture, they are simply optimizing what they did with the 8800 series, as a response to ATI new products...

Now, ATI has a bug in the chip that limits shader performance. Not sure about what the amount of performance limitation is, but I've read about it and am regurgitating rather poorly here, so bear with me. This bug made it in to the 2xxx series and 3xxx series, so for them, fixing that bug for the next generation, is an easy way to enhance performance, and additionally, if their 4xxx series is able to achieve a great performance increase, nVidia will be back to where they were when the 9xxx, x8xx, x1800 and x1900 series ATI cards came out, which is behind.

What I hate is that instead of these companies innovating on a consistent basis (that includes ATI, nVidia, AMD, and Intel) they use reactionary strategies to attempt to one-up each other. How long did Intel sit on Netburst while the Athlon 64 trounced them on the desktop and the server space? Finally Intel came up with Centrino, which translated later to C2D. The old days of the spring and fall innovations coming are pretty much behind us in the CPU and Graphics industries.

I want to see the next gen of card playing Crysis with anti-aliasing at decent resolutions at FULL DX10 very high settings at around 30FPS. Maybe I'm asking too much, but that would be innovation to me and worth my hard earned $$$. I'm no hardware engineer, but I'd love to see that this spring or fall.

Working in the IT field I see a lot of innovation in high-availability, disk technology, software, data management, etc... and very little of it has to do with just one-upping the competition. There is real, new, and exciting technology being released all the time based on longer term product strategies and best-of-breed distinguishing features.

It would be nice to see this in the graphics and CPU fields as well. I hope ATI hits a home run with their next architecture, and I hope nVidia can keep the field competitive for a long time, otherwise we WILL be sidestepped and taken advantage of again.

Competition works for me

Regards,

10e
 
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