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HP ZR24w
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techpriest
Limp Gawd
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Can anyone tell me what's hp's pixel policy for this monitor? Is it like dell's no dead pixel policy?
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jhatfie
[H]ard|Gawd
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Got my second and third ZR24w the other day. No dead pixels, noticeable bleeding or tint issues on these ones either. Very pleased with these monitors in my eyefinity setup so far.
Picked it up today. I have a 240PW9EB philips which is similar panel to u2410 to compare to.
Text is good. Text on the 240PW is not, it looks like the ZR24W on sharpness setting 5. ie tinted red/green on the edges. This could be due to some internal processing, and not the 240PW's panel.
Color uniformity with full white screen on both of the panels is fine. Might be able to tell if I tried, not an issue for me. One stuck red and green pixels on the HP, again not a problem for me.
However, backlight bleed on the HP is bad (for me at least, I usually work in a darker environment). It is most noticeable in the bottom left corner, and of course expands/contracts noticeably as you change your viewing angle.
ZR24W on 0% brightness. It looks about 50% worse in reality:
Dell 2005fpw. Much better. Even if you can spot it, it blends better as its a red not a whitish blue.
Text is good. Text on the 240PW is not, it looks like the ZR24W on sharpness setting 5. ie tinted red/green on the edges. This could be due to some internal processing, and not the 240PW's panel.
Color uniformity with full white screen on both of the panels is fine. Might be able to tell if I tried, not an issue for me. One stuck red and green pixels on the HP, again not a problem for me.
However, backlight bleed on the HP is bad (for me at least, I usually work in a darker environment). It is most noticeable in the bottom left corner, and of course expands/contracts noticeably as you change your viewing angle.
ZR24W on 0% brightness. It looks about 50% worse in reality:
Dell 2005fpw. Much better. Even if you can spot it, it blends better as its a red not a whitish blue.
Mine have 0 backlightbleed, but instead it have huge white glow, especially on down left corner, if it expands/contracts when you change viewing angle then it's white glow i think, because backlightbleed doesn't act like that.
I got mine on Thurs.
Looks perfect! No fuzziness, bleed or other issues.
Its color gamut is noticeably smaller than my LP2475w which is right next to it, especially in the reds and greens. But this is expected.
Played about 8 hours of TF2 on it since then, no problems with ghosting. Its great for fast paced games. It's viewing angle is excellent! when looking at the screen from around 2.5 feet away the panel looks consistent across the entire screen.
Looks perfect! No fuzziness, bleed or other issues.
Its color gamut is noticeably smaller than my LP2475w which is right next to it, especially in the reds and greens. But this is expected.
Played about 8 hours of TF2 on it since then, no problems with ghosting. Its great for fast paced games. It's viewing angle is excellent! when looking at the screen from around 2.5 feet away the panel looks consistent across the entire screen.
Ah, yes I think you are correct.
Is it worth trying to exchange for one with less glow? In post 1907 you mentioned getting one with black being completely dark. Does it still have the glow you mention, or was that your older monitor?
Judging by the few pictures and comments it seemed like they had similar glow levels.
I can understand how most people wouldn't notice or care, if used in a bright office environment it would not be noticeable. Although, there is the dirty look when the screen is all white, which would be noticeable in an office.
verylostindeed
Gawd
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Not worth it to exchange. You won't get one with "less" glow because all IPS (without A-TW filters) monitors of this size have similar glow.
techpriest
Limp Gawd
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what's hp's warranty/pixel policy for this monitor?
3 years on-site warranty, They'll supposedly cover 1 bright main pixel but others on this thread have had some difficulty getting that taken care of
techpriest
Limp Gawd
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thank you paragon54. Now I can't figure out which to get between this and the u2410 for gaming... ugh this is killing me
My pleasure ... I was in the same boat as you for the last week or more, my Dell 2407FWP is about 6 months out of warranty and about 6 weeks ago the on/off switch broke. Next, I started noticing degradtion in image quality. Change to three different video cards and found it was the monitor. I've been procrastinating for a couple of weeks but seriously the last week as the Dell I currently own is getting steadily worse. After much careful deliberation I just ordered the HP as I figure it's advantages out weigh Dell's (and price wasn't even a consideration). We'll soon see.
techpriest
Limp Gawd
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paragon yours hasn't arrived yet? Would love to hear your opinions
Thanks. Might give it a shot though since I have two stuck pixels.
On my philips 240PW its much more subdued and even, to the point of not noticing it when I don't look for it.
With the ZR24W its clearly brighter, and a lot worse in the bottom left. The top right is not noticeable at all.
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Naa it's not worth to exchange it because the other monitor will probably also have the glow.
When i said the black is completely black i meant that there is no backlightbleed at all, but there is the same glow which my first monitor also had.
But well yea.. it isn't completely black because of the white glow ^^
Hehe after like many weeks of using this monitor i didn't notice a white pixel in the middle of the screen until now.
Or maybe i have seen if before but thought it was dirt and didn't bother to clean it off.
The pixel is unbelievably small, so i can barely even see it. So no big deal, i don't understand how some people can exchange their monitor because of just 1 bright pixel.
Damn now when i know i have a bright pixel there i will be looking at it all the time and think of it, lol. I wish i would have a men in black memory eraser so i would forget about the pixel.
imo it's a very easy choice.
The ZR24w probably have better quality than the U2410, (less likely to get a screen with tint), the surface coating on the HP is less agressive, HP have better support, officially if you get a U2410 with tinting you are not allowed to replace it because of it because it's a "panel feature", and imo the BIGGEST downside of the U2410: it's wide gamut, i would choose the HP only because of that.
If you want similar inputlag performance with the Dell as with HP you have to run the U2410 in game mode, in that mode the colors will be completely messed up (way too saturated).
So if you want a monitor with bad quality (tinting), bad support, bad colors (over saturated), agressive cotaing so white looks grainy, hassle with wide gamut and calibration, then go for the U2410.
Really no brainer imo.. ^^
Oh yea and the U2410 costs a bit more.
addictedto60fps
[H]ard|Gawd
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Sorry if this is a dumb question, but can someone explain the difference between a wide gamut and srgb monitor?
In my understanding as a photographer:
sRGB is the crappiest and most standardized color palette. It was optimized to bring some standardization so the average user can click a button and get prints from their printer that match what they see on their screen (since consumer printers only print a limited set of sRGB). It also was made to standardize stuff like how web pages will show up and and be consistent from computer to computer and all that. This was before color profiling was readily able to embedded/converted in browsers (thanks firefox for pioneering this).
sRGB is what 90% of the world uses, all consumer digital cameras use this color space, all printers can print it. By enabling this you sacrifice image quality and gamut for consistency and ease of use.
Above sRGB there is a color space called Adobe 1998, it has expanded greens. This is typically what pro photographers, and professional 9 color printers will print out. Most higher quality monitors can display this color space.
Above Adobe 1998 is the end all, be all of color, called "ProPhoto" there we enter the realm of color so vivid and well defined that its crazy. This is where the high end monitors come into play.
So typically as a photographer I have my monitor calibrated to Adobe 1998 so I can see what it would look like if I printed on a 9 color inkjet. But I know that if I send to someplace like walmart to get prints it will only be sRGB and colors will be very dull so I know that what I see on my Adobe calibrated screen will not be indicative of what comes out of the printer. So typically when I send to a crappy sRGB place I add 9% saturation and 10% brightness to compensate for the colors that will be discarded.
so in essence: sRGB crap, Adobe 98 good, ProPhoto best.
Anything above sRGB is "wide gamut"
Here is a visual representation:
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So on the above representation, we can see the background "horseshoe" is what the human eye can see.
The colors that can be displayed are represented in the triangles. There is also a circular blob that represents what matte paper can display.
Typically glossy can get better colors because the surface of the paper is more consistent but it is all dependent on the quality of paper and the printer.
The colors that can be displayed are represented in the triangles. There is also a circular blob that represents what matte paper can display.
Typically glossy can get better colors because the surface of the paper is more consistent but it is all dependent on the quality of paper and the printer.
techpriest
Limp Gawd
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Then why do people like blackbird frown upon the wide gamut u2410 "...downside of the U2410: it's wide gamut, i would choose the HP only because of that." By your logic the u2410 is superior to the zr24w because it has wide gamut. This is just getting more confusing now, just when I was about to pull the trigger on the hp god damn it this is frustrating
I'll take a stab at it techpriest.
As I understand, true wide gamut would look better. However, what they are doing is using an 8 bit panel to try and display 10 bits worth of colors. Colors are represented as an rgb value where each one is a number 0-255 (8 bits means 256, 10 bits means 1024). Wide gamut displays are trying to make 0-1024 displayed on 8 bit panels. This is not possible, and you end up with some colors that are not correct, missing altogether, and extremities with certain colors. People seem to prefer that if you have an 8 bit panel that it only try and display 8 bits worth of color, not 10. There are better explanations than that but I think that is the gist of it.
As I understand, true wide gamut would look better. However, what they are doing is using an 8 bit panel to try and display 10 bits worth of colors. Colors are represented as an rgb value where each one is a number 0-255 (8 bits means 256, 10 bits means 1024). Wide gamut displays are trying to make 0-1024 displayed on 8 bit panels. This is not possible, and you end up with some colors that are not correct, missing altogether, and extremities with certain colors. People seem to prefer that if you have an 8 bit panel that it only try and display 8 bits worth of color, not 10. There are better explanations than that but I think that is the gist of it.
Bloodflowerz
Limp Gawd
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Hello all,
I have my third replacement for the ZR24w and finally it's a beauty. No obvious backlight bleed and no dead pixels. It also calibrated brilliantly via Spyder 3:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9513/calibrationcontrastcorr.jpg
My settings for this panel are:
Brightness: 7
Contrast: 100
R: 125
G: 98
B: 100
I'm well happy now. Has there been a fix for xbox 360 scaling? I can only seem to play 360 at 1680 x 1080 as 1920 x 1080 gets cropped....
I have my third replacement for the ZR24w and finally it's a beauty. No obvious backlight bleed and no dead pixels. It also calibrated brilliantly via Spyder 3:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9513/calibrationcontrastcorr.jpg
My settings for this panel are:
Brightness: 7
Contrast: 100
R: 125
G: 98
B: 100
I'm well happy now. Has there been a fix for xbox 360 scaling? I can only seem to play 360 at 1680 x 1080 as 1920 x 1080 gets cropped....
To put it simply, because of the 8-bit limitation and because programs that are not color managed are natively expecting sRGB color space because that is the standard. So lets assume that a game, movie or whatever wants to show an extreme green of sRGB color triangle, but wide gamut monitor actually shows extreme green of aRGB color triangle wich is in the neon area. From what I know (someone could clarify) blue and red colors do not extent much further on aRGB color triangle compared to sRGB but center point between those color spaces is different so you still get wrong colors because coordinates between aRGB and sRGB do not match. For example, something that is supposed to be bright, slightly brownish red actually becomes burning orange.
In theory widegamut is better, but as long as we work on 8-bit system OR all upcoming programs are suddenly color aware and make use of calibrated ICC profiles, all widegamut does is harm by badly oversaturating the colors.
Staticlags post is bit wierd as sRGB is really well capable of showing vivid colors, it is however not capable of showing really glowing and burning neon colors with their full strength. If he increases saturation he isnt expanding the color space but moving expected colors closer to the limits of sRGB triangle, and therefore become very wrong from what is intended to be shown originally, if 100% accuracy is what he wants that is. Also colors that are close to the edges of triangle will get burned out because they hit the wall of what sRGB is capable to show. Details in those colors are lost, they all blend and become same color.
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Neither aRGB nor ProPhoto are bad, both are good but instead mismatching colorspaces between source and output without correction, very bad.
Well yea, but most applications doesn't have that correction so in reality they suck, not many applications is color aware.
Exactly. Your statement was just so blunt that I was not sure how to react to it other than to clarify.
Has any figured out a way to get the monitor to wake up faster after the monitor had gone to sleep? The monitor wakes up promptly when connected through DVI (through a HDMI connector), but it wakes up slowly when connected through displayport. In fact, when the monitor wakes up, I get a notification that the display driver had stopped working (which I assume is the cause for the wakeup-slowdown). Weird. I'm running W7X64 on a 5850.
techpriest
Limp Gawd
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thanks a lot for clarifying that guys. Ok I guess I'm gonna be shopping around for the zr24w. = )
addictedto60fps
[H]ard|Gawd
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Ditto for me. Thanks, guys. Once I get my monitor, I will post my impressions as well.
My HP ZR24w arrived with a dead pixel. I love the monitor, but as you know HP policy allows for the monitor to arrive with up to 4 dead sub-pixels.
I fought on the phone with them for two hours today with no luck. Does anyone know how to convince them to exchange this one, or am I out of luck?
I would recommend buying a monitor from a company that has a better dead pixel policy.
I fought on the phone with them for two hours today with no luck. Does anyone know how to convince them to exchange this one, or am I out of luck?
I would recommend buying a monitor from a company that has a better dead pixel policy.
mejobloggs
Weaksauce
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I had 1 bad pixel and got it replaced. At first they wouldnt, but I said that HP bought out the zr24w to replace the LP247w (or whatever it's called), which DID have a 0 bad pixel warranty, so therefore the zr24w should also have this
There was a 20 second pause and then they said "where's your address, we're sending you a new one"
Unfortunately the new one had a stuck pixel also, but the screen quality was better so didn't want to try again unless I got a worse one
another-user
Gawd
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i went through their email support for a single stuck pixel. they never gave me any runaround or excuses. was a simple, well have some one call you to collect information and set up an appointment. well have a tech to your location in 48hrs with a replacement.
rogue_jedi
Supreme [H]ardness
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Make sure you talk to the business support line, as well.
Lol wow,
You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about when it comes to color if you think crappy sRGB is the best, and the extra colors are simply "oversaturated"
Standard programs will have no problem operating with a higher color space monitor.
A few programs that are color-aware:
Photoshop
Lightroom
Firefox
8 bit TN monitors can't display Adobe at all in my experience, you can pull some tricks to get it close in luminosity and gamma but it just isn't there.
For an example to you all, I will upload some "untagged" (all images are tagged with what colorspace they are in so that color aware programs can interpret them.) Prophoto images and you can see for yourself what mismatching color spaces will do to an image (default is sRGB so your browser will try and interpret incorrectly).
Frankly if you are just going around the internet and gaming and stuff like that then there is no need for anything above sRGB. If you plan on printing something highend (photography, medical diagnostic imaging, etc) then thats where the difference is between a $400 monitor and a $3000 monitor.
Complete nonsense. Non color aware applications (ie the majority of applications) will display colors that are not only over saturated but incorrect in tone as well.
Only if properly profiled will get normal looking colors and only in color aware applications.
And a tens of thousands of others that aren't. I had a Dell 3007-HC for a week and even games on it looked hideous. It was a breath of fresh air to replace it with an NEC 2490 and have everything look normal again.
Unless you absolutely need a wider gamut for some professional work(if you are not sure, then you don't need it), you should avoid it like the plague.
There is essentially ZERO wide gamut content unless you make it yourself. Just about everything available to show on your computer is designed for sRGB primary colors. Games, Apps, Movies(even Blu Ray), Web etc....
Thank FSM that they are making sRGB monitors again.
Of course they work, you just get oversaturated and wrong colors BECAUSE THE PROGRAM IS EXPECTING SRGB COLOR SPACE BUT YOUR MONITOR IS WORKING ON ARGB OR WIDER. Those bright colors are good and part of what human eye can see, but problem is that they are shown when they are not supposed to be.
As I explained, non-color managed software doesnt know you have wider gamut monitor and your monitor doesnt know that it is receiving sRGB information. If the program wants to show color from the limits of sRGB color space but instead you get a color from the limits of aRGB colorspace which isnt what it wants UNLESS YOUR MONITOR HAS WORKING SRGB EMULATION MODE. This feature is in some wide gamut monitors for a reason! Get your facts straight before spouting nonsense.
Oh, and TNs are capable of aRGB. Samsung 226CW being one. Of course it uses dithering to increase 6 to 8 bits but this has nothing to do with gamut. Im not sure if shows right as digitalversus removed gamut tests from their dropdown boxes, but lets see.
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=265&p1=2507&ma2=36&mo2=265&p2=2507&ph=7
Here is a good example. If you have Vista you should have a wallpaper about mountain which top is lit by sunrise (or sunset, not sure). Put it in your background and also open it with color managed program like Vista image viewer or photoshop. In color managed program the tip is nice brownish red like it should be, but on your desktop, that is not color managed, it looks like molten lava.
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