I would like to record digital tv - what do I need/how much space?

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GrimWarrior

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Hello all,

I'm building a new computer, as mine is quite old, but has served me well. I really don't know much about the whole HTPC thing, seeing as I've spent WAYYYYY too much time researching monitors, and I don't even have my build finalized yet. I need to just grab the info and move on back to my work. If you could help me out here, I'd REALLY appreciate it!

I have comcast digital cable, and I'm looking to record tv shows. I would like to use my pc like a DVR/Tivo. I'm not entirely concerned with HDtv, I just have regular standard definition comcast cable. (although, I guess future-proofing wouldn't be bad?)

My computer build isn't finalized yet, but it will be a Intel core2 quad Q9550 chip, Nvidia graphics cards, and I'm going to run 3 monitors, 4 gigs of ram, and Windows XP pro. (yeah I know xp's ram limits, and at this point I don't feel comfortable running Vista; 64 bit or 32 bit)

Here's my questions:

1- what kind of equipment do I need to make this happen? Tv tuner card? What would you recommend?

2- what kind of video inputs will the monitor need to receive this and make it work? (currently looking at NEC LCD2490WUXi - it has DVI-D, DVI-I, and VGA)

3- How much hard drive space does 1 hour of standard def tv take up? (this will help in determining the hard drives that I buy) Also, in comparison, how much hard drive space does 1 hour of HD tv use?

I think that's it for now, and just wanted to say THANKS in advance if you can help! :)
 
why dont you feel comfortable with Vista, it isnt that bad :)

Monitor wont matter cause the signal will come in through the card, you need a card capable of recording a digital signal, personally, i dont know of any :(
 
To record all the digital comcast stuff with good scheduling and a tivo-like experience.. you'll need a CableCARD digital tuner and Windows Vista. You'll have to get it through a pre-built OEM machine like Velocity Micro, HP, Sony, etc. You'll also need a HDCP certified monitor/tv connected via HDMI or DVI.
 
w1retap said:
To record all the digital comcast stuff with good scheduling and a tivo-like experience.. you'll need a CableCARD digital tuner and Windows Vista. You'll have to get it through a pre-built OEM machine like Velocity Micro, HP, Sony, etc. You'll also need a HDCP certified monitor/tv connected via HDMI or DVI.
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Or SageTV with a Hauppauge HD-PVR.

But since the OP isn't concerned with HD right now a regular tuner card would be fine, either controlling a cable box or hooked direct to cable TV.

If I remember correctly, my SageTV server uses 2 gigs an hour for SD and 6 gigs and hour for HD from the HD-PVR, I think it's 3 or 4 gigs and hour for HD from the antenna. If you got one of those 640GB WD drives I'd bet you'd be fine.
 
Yeah, the Hauppauge HD-PVR requires a cable box, so let's be clear to the OP that it isn't a tuner. It's a component video relay/capture box.
 
Thanks for the replies so far guys. I did a bit of reading into all of this. Still very confusing.

Yes, I'm not really into recording HD, my main thing is that I want a very Tivo like setup. I want to be able to record tv shows, and set it up so that it automatically records them whenever they come on, by name. (For example only: tell it to record "Family Guy" whenever it comes on, from any channel it's on." The shows I'd regularly be recording wouldn't necessarily be on different channels like that, but maybe once in a while?)

I guess maybe I need help in understanding the whole analog cable vs. digital cable thing. After february, analog cable won't be around anymore, right? Right now I have the Digital Cable from Comcast. I believe It's part of a 1 year intro thing, and then the price will go up after that, and I might drop down to like their standard cable. This would still be "digital cable", yes?

I also really don't understand the whole QAM stuff, and using an antenna. Is that implying that people that didn't buy a cable package, and they are able to just pull the channels out of the air with the antenna/QAM stuff?

After that, the difference between the Hauppauge HD-PVR and a "tuner card" is that with a "tuner card" I can plug the coax cable directly into the card, and with the Hauppauge, I would have to have the set top box? Well, to get an extra box from comcast is only $3 per month, so that's not really that bad. In comparison, you're saying that the Hauppauge is the only way for me to get the whole Tivo-like scheduling would be to buy a pre--built OEM cablecard thing, right?

If that's the case, I wouldn't really mind going the Hauppauge route at all. As long as you're saying I can still use Windows XP, just have to get SageTV software, and the Hauppauge hardware....? This setup would only allow me to record one tv show at a time though, right? (as in, if two shows I want to record are on at the same time, It would only record one of them? And which one would it know to record if that is the case?) What would I need to do to record 2 tv shows at a time?


.......

I guess, finally, how does doing it this way compare to actually getting Tivo? Looks like it's either $150 or $300 for the Tivo itself, then about $12.95 monthly, plus it says a CableCard is $2 a month, so that's either $15 or $17 monthly (for dual recording)...

In comparison, going the Hauppauge route, it is roughly $230 from Newegg shipped, and then have to purchase SageTV for $80.. but then there is no monthly fees (well, I guess you could say $3 because I'd have to get another set top box). This is, assuming that goign this route will WORK flawlessly like a Tivo, right?

Sorry for the length, but THANKS in advance for your help guys! I'm pretty clueless about this stuff!
 
- Analog will still be around in terms of your cable company... for a while. I know comcast in my area is switching over many of their channels to digital. It all depends on your area I guess. As for over the air antenna analog, it will be gone.

- QAM is the broadcast from your cable company through the cable line. The digital channels will use that protocol, but most of them are encrypted, if not all of them. Usually you can get a few local channels. The unencrypted ones are ClearQAM. That's what all "QAM tuners" are. The CableCARD tuner allows QAM with encryption to be received, but those only come with OEM dealers like HP, Velocity Micro, etc. Over the air broadcasts can be received if you live in an area that has HD broadcasts. Check antennaweb.org to see if you can get any channels. But beware.. some areas suck for HD reception.

- The Hauppauge HD-PVR needs the cable box, and to capture HD, you connect up to it with component video cables. Of course you'll need whatever channel package your provider requires for HD channels. And as far as I know, the Hauppauge won't work under XP/Vista Media Center, so something like Sage TV is recommended.

If it was me, I'd go the Hauppauge route instead of a Tivo. That way you can record and archive as much as you want without worrying about space on a Tivo.
 
Generally this is how much space MCE uses for recording 1 hour of TV.
- Fair uses 1.5 GB of space for 1 hour of recording
- Good uses 1.8 GB of space for 1 hour of recording
- Better uses 2.5 GB of space for 1 hour of recording
- Best uses 3.3 GB of space for 1 hour of recording

Now, as far as hard drive space goes, I would say that depends on what you're doing. If you're looking at storing hours and hours of tv to get seasons of shows you like, then you're going to want a decent amount of hard drive space. If you're a "I missed my episode of Heroes but I dvr'd it, so I'll watch it then delete it" kind of guy, then you'll be alright with anywhere from 160 - 250GB of space. I'd say your best bet is to go with at least a 320GB so you can get a perpendicular drive to be quiet, create less heat, and be a newer drive.
 
GrimWarrior said:
In comparison, going the Hauppauge route, it is roughly $230 from Newegg shipped, and then have to purchase SageTV for $80.. but then there is no monthly fees (well, I guess you could say $3 because I'd have to get another set top box). This is, assuming that goign this route will WORK flawlessly like a Tivo, right?
Click to expand...

Mine does. SageTV with two HD-PVR's. With proper hardware selection the setup is a snap.
 
First off, I just want to say THANK YOU to you guys, you are being *very* helpful, and I really appreciate it! (and, if I could figure out how to multi-quote msg's, I'd be doing it)

valve1138, can I ask why you have two HD-PVR's? Is that so that you can record two different shows that are on at the same time? Do you have to have two seperate cable boxes to do that also?

That ties into the other question I had asked, what would I need to record two different shows at the same time? I don't really know if I want to jump that far into it, but it'd be good info to have for the future when/if I want to.

w1retap, that's something I looked at when exploring the Tivo, was space, but the Tivo says you can record stuff, and then transfer it to your pc. That being said, I still think I'd like to go with the other setup with no monthly fee, and equipment that is mine and will continue to work in the future with whatever I do in regards to tv/cable. (Assuming that if I get the HD-PVR this shouldn't be an issue, right?)

.....

So as long as I'm understanding you guys correctly, with my proposed new comp build/setup, I do not need a "tunercard" if I buy the Hauppauge HD-PVR. I just need the HD-PVR, and a cable box from my cable provider, and SageTV software. Using SageTV and the Hauppauge, they will change the channels and record what I want (there's no problems with IR-blasting, is there?)

It hooks up from the component outputs of my cable box, and inputs to my computer via USB..? If I wanted to watch one of the shows recorded, it would be on my computer monitor, and not a tv, yes? Could it go to a tv somehow? (not necessary, just curious)

I read the reviews of the HD-PVR on newegg, and one makes mention that it is hard to edit out the commercials of your recordings? That would be a drag. :(

One last thing that I can think of for now - are there any issues with this kind of setup if I ever move over to using Windows Vista? More than likely I won't, but perhaps sometime down the road (In a year or two, but I don't want to have to re-buy equipment)

Thanks again guys!
 
Yep, I have the two HD-PVR's so I can watch one and record one, or record two shows. Yes, I have two boxes, DirecTV boxes in my case, but cable boxes aren't any different.


If you're only going to have one HD-PVR and cable box, it has an IR blaster included so you would only need that to control channel changing on the cable box.

For more than two cable boxes you use something like a USB-UIRT to control the cable boxes, it's an IR blaster natively supported by SageTV. You'd also need an additional IR blaster eye to plug in the USB-UIRT, which is a cheap little add on.

There's an info thread on the Sage Forums how to set it up to control up to three boxes with a simple edit to the IR file (easier than it sounds). If you do a quick google on it, theres a bunch of info out there how to connect the extra IR eye to the USB-UIRT. It's easier than I'm making it sound right now before I've had any coffee :D

Sage handles all the recording scheduling for you. Set your favorites and let Sage do the rest.

I'd highly recommend checking out the SageTV forums, there's a ton of good info over there that would help you make a decision regarding whether or not Sage is for you.
 
Another question: When you are recording, what is the usage on your cpu? Does it noticeably slow down your system? (bearable? un-bearable?) What about if you are recording two shows at once?
 
GrimWarrior said:
Another question: When you are recording, what is the usage on your cpu? Does it noticeably slow down your system? (bearable? un-bearable?) What about if you are recording two shows at once?
Click to expand...


With the HD-PVR? I don't know actually. My Server is a P4 3ghz with 2 gigs of RAM and has zero issues capturing from both HD-PVR's and an ATSC (HD) over the air tuner all at the same time.

Recording isn't very CPU intensive. It's basically just passing data along the bus from the capture device to the hard drive.

Playback is what will tax the CPU and possibly the GPU depending on format.
 
There is no decent solution for watching encrypted digital cable using HTPC. All the existing ones: - hd-pvr, firewire control of the box, cablecard equipped mega $$ oem pc, are basically ugly hacks put together with lots of duct tape, that are far from elegant and user friendly.

Even if you do manage to get it all working, you still won't get things like on-demand, ppv, or any other services besides tv which your provider offers.

$15/mo for a highly subsidized hd-pvr stb, which you can replace for free if anything goes wrong is a much easier and cheaper option, but of course its not HTPC.
 
MrCrispy said:
There is no decent solution for watching encrypted digital cable using HTPC. All the existing ones: - hd-pvr, firewire control of the box, cablecard equipped mega $$ oem pc, are basically ugly hacks put together with lots of duct tape, that are far from elegant and user friendly.
Click to expand...

Theres nothing wrong with the HD-PVR. What are you basing your opinion on exactly?
 
I think he's just saying it costs $250... a bit more than it's worth since it's not even a tuner.
 
I don't think the original poster cares anymore. The last post in this thread was 2 months ago, and the last time he logged in was 1 month ago.
 
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