Intel to disclose the maximum Tjunction values for 45nm Core 2s

[msabo]

That is completely wrong. There is only one sensor on a processor, and that is the DTS located inside the core itself. The temperature Intel refers to as Tcase is measured external to the processor on the top center of the integrated heat spreader.

I would refer you to page 31 of the this Thermal Design Guide document from Intel.

4.2.10 Digital Thermal Sensor
The Intel® Core™2 Duo desktop processor E6000 sequence introduces the Digital
Thermal Sensor (DTS) as the on-die sensor to use for fan speed control (FSC). The DTS
will eventually replace the on-die thermal diode used in previous products. The
processor will have both the DTS and thermal diode enabled.

Next I would refer you this Intel web page.

There is a thermal diode in the processor which measures actual CPU temperature.

 

[Forceman]

I would refer you to page 31 of the this Thermal Design Guide document from Intel.



Next I would refer you this Intel web page.

Thank you for making my point for me. Yes, there is a thermal sensor on the CPU core itself, it is called the digital thermal sensor (DTS), and it reads out a value that is a delta to Tjmax, a value that varies based on processor and was just revealed for 45nm chips (hence this thread). All of which I said in my first post. It does not, however, read out Tcase, as that is measured at the geometric center of the integrated heatspreader and requires an external thermocouple to read - instructions on how to install said thermocouple are in the reference I provided earlier.

I'm not 100% positive, but I'm pretty sure you are the only person in this thread that believes there to be a way to read Tcase directly. This issue is covered in about 100 threads here, I'm sure if you search for Tjmax or Tcase you can find some of them.

I don't mean to sound like an ass, although I guess I probably do, but this issue keeps coming up over and over again.

 

[msabo]

Thank you for making my point for me.

Again, it says "The processor will have both the DTS and thermal diode enabled." I thought you were stating there was only DTS.

I'm not 100% positive, but I'm pretty sure you are the only person in this thread that believes there to be a way to read Tcase directly. This issue is covered in about 100 threads here, I'm sure if you search for Tjmax or Tcase you can find some of them.

I don't mean to sound like an ass, although I guess I probably do, but this issue keeps coming up over and over again.

Again I'll refer you to the Intel web page. Figure 2, on the X axis is labeled "Tcase Temperature (C)". The chart is in reference to how the MB uses the thermal diode to control fan speed. They indicated the output of the thermal diode as Tcase.

Look I'm just trying to understand this material and if these Intel documents are incorrect, then I stand corrected. I'm pointing you to what I read and why I stated what I did.

 

[Forceman]

Again, it says "The processor will have both the DTS and thermal diode enabled." I thought you were stating there was only DTS.



Again I'll refer you to the Intel web page. Figure 2, on the X axis is labeled "Tcase Temperature (C)". The chart is in reference to how the MB uses the thermal diode to control fan speed. They indicated the output of the thermal diode as Tcase.

Look I'm just trying to understand this material and if these Intel documents are incorrect, then I stand corrected. I'm pointing you to what I read and why I stated what I did.

I think the quote you had there is taken slightly out of context. What it is saying is that, previous to the 6xxx series, CPUs had a thermal diode to measure the temperature. Starting with the 6xxx series they moved to the DTS, which replaces the thermal diode. I'm not sure why it says the part about having both - to my knowledge the 6xxx only ever had a DTS and I know for sure that the 45nm chips only have the DTS. In either case, the temperature they were reading out was the temperature of the core itself because that is where they are located, inside the core. Tcase, which is what the Intel maximum design temperature references is something different (for most chips it was around 71.4C). Having the easy to read on-chip sensor not be the source of your maximum design temperature is what has led to all this confusion, I'm guessing the reason for that is that the DTS is not really designed to be a thermometer, merely a trip switch to tell when the chip is too hot. It is confusing, but one thing is certain, there is only one temperature value that can be read directly from 45nm chips (and 65nm also) and that is the delta to Tjmax, which is different from Tcase. Trying to convert the output of the DTS to a usable temperature requires knowing the value of Tjmax, which until recently was inferred but not known - now Intel has released that information for 45nm chips and led to this thread.