Is a soundcard worth it for my 800$ system ?

A

atldragonz

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I'm just using the mobo soundcard right now. Will a soundcard be worth it ?

I have a 2.1 system

Marantz sr4002 receiver
Paraidgm Titan bookshelves speakers
Sony sub

Thanks
 
Whether it's "worth it" is up to you.

Movies/Music/Gaming? What percent of the time for each? Which games?
 
is up to you, i say dont buy one, try the onboard, dont like it, then get one,

does your receiver not have SPDIF in and your mobo SPDIF out, just use that, it is a raw signal so a sound card will make 0 difference.
 
atldragonz said:
I'm just using the mobo soundcard right now. Will a soundcard be worth it ?

I have a 2.1 system

Marantz sr4002 receiver
Paraidgm Titan bookshelves speakers
Sony sub

Thanks
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How are you sending out the audio now? If you can use SPDIF/Optical that will work fine with your current setup. You wont need a soundcard at all as your receiver will be doing the work your soundcard would and based on your setup it would sound great.
 
The receiver you have has a SPDIF input. Just use that and don't bother with a soundcard.
 
I have a Marantz SR8001 receiver connected to an Auzen Forte via digital (coaxial). In all honesty, I can't discern any difference between the Forte and onboard audio. I suggest you just stick with the onboard.
 
Onboard soundcards have gotten to the point where if you're just using 2.1, there's not going to be much difference. Unless you game hardcore and wanna try to save a frame or two. :)
 
^^^ Don't agree really - I can absolutely hear the difference between my on board audio and a sound card. That being said OP has a receiver so he shouldn't get a sound card. The advantage of soundcard is better analog out. Almost all motherboards have digital out nowadays..
 
GuyClinch said:
^^^ Don't agree really - I can absolutely hear the difference between my on board audio and a sound card. That being said OP has a receiver so he shouldn't get a sound card. The advantage of soundcard is better analog out. Almost all motherboards have digital out nowadays..
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digital is digital a SPDIF on a onboard vs soundcard is the same
 
MonkeyRoach said:
digital is digital a SPDIF on a onboard vs soundcard is the same
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except in terms of processing offered by the soundcard, which most onboard solutions can't even approach, not only in terms of FPS advantages, but in terms of extra features

and the guy you quoted wasn't disagreeing with you (neither am I, but I have no doubt you'll flame me as well)

honestly just because you have a receiver doesn't mean "don't get a soundcard it isn't worth it", although if budget is tight, its something which should be at the top of the list of things to be removed, but if you've got some extra money and want more features/toys, especially if you're going to use headphones or surround sound, a soundcard (or high end integrated audio solution, which are becoming more common) is a nice upgrade
 
obobski said:
except in terms of processing offered by the soundcard, which most onboard solutions can't even approach, not only in terms of FPS advantages, but in terms of extra features
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spdif out is pass through. if your are using it the onboard or sound card isn't doing anything except passing sound through. the receiver does the processing thats why an expensive card would be pointless in this application.
 
haadij404 said:
spdif out is pass through. if your are using it the onboard or sound card isn't doing anything except passing sound through. the receiver does the processing thats why an expensive card would be pointless in this application.
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actually this is incorrect, at least in modern parlance, yes the solution should be capable of passing AC-3 or DTS via S/PDIF, although with respect to basically ANYTHING else, processing is done before a PCM or AC-3 bitstream is handed off to the receiver for decoding

for example, EQ effects, EAX processing, OpenAL processing, and spatialization technologies like CMSS or Pro Logic II, basically any discrete card (at least today) will offer all of the above, in some fashion (Creative will lean heavily on CMSS, C-Media on Dolby), and many onboard solutions will also offer the above (Dolby Home Theatre and EAX decode), and even if all of those features are disabled, the computer is STILL responsible for de-compressing the audio signals into PCM, clocking it, and volume control

in other words, it isn't just passthrough, the transmitting side does quite a bit, and with a modern discrete card, or decently high end mainboard (I've heard most Gigabyte boards are moving this way, I know Intel's "Extreme" series boards have this feature, Asus' SupremeFX has this feature, no doubt MSI, eVGA, and similar offer this feature on at least one board as well), you can even get encoding features like DDL or DTS:C, and up-sampling effects (As mentioned above)

all the receiver is doing is decoding a digital signal, either 2ch 1411k PCM or 6ch 448k-640k AC-3 (or 1536k DTS) and amplifying it, yes you can use Pro Logic on your receiver to get noise on every channel, yes you can use your receiver for room calibration, yes you can use the EQ on your receiver, but with modern solutions, this is ultimately possible on the computer's side as well, and generally, the computer affords more control and features

so basically, like I said, a soundcard is good if you want more effects/features, or like Guy said, if you want a better analog output (or input) stage
 
If you are using a digital signal, spdif etc, you will not see or hear any benefit from a sound card at any price point.
As mentioned you can get more options as far as sound shaping in the pc as apposed to at the receiver but if you wanted that why would you use a receiver?
As for analog signal, it is a whole different consideration and has been well covered already in this thread.
To the question asked. For your hardware I do not think you would see a benefit from upgrading to a sound card. I would suggest putting the money towards some thing else. That is with the assumption you are using a digital signal to your receiver.

Another assumption I made is that you are using a newer current on board solution for sound.
 
Snufykat said:
If you are using a digital signal, spdif etc, you will not see or hear any benefit from a sound card at any price point.
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Not true. If you're into gaming and want EAX then it's beneficial to get an X-Fi/Forte. You can still use all the audio processing when using digital out. Also, some cards like the Forte include whatever you need to do multichannel digital. Onboard solutions are usually limited to 2-channel.

But from an audio quality standpoint there's no discernible difference.
 
why does it seem like people see a receiver and assume that the soundcard no longer matters, and that you could feed a mono signal into it and it would just "handle it", seriously, are you all just running Pro Logic after enough button mashing that every speaker makes noise, and you assume its accomplished multi-ch and full spatialization and so on, really, all you're changing is the transport stream between the source (the computer/soundcard) and the preamp/amplifier (The receiver), instead of passing things out via analog, and using the source's D/A facilities, you're bypassing JUST the D/A, keeping everything else, and using an external decoder, this doesn't somehow mean the entire processing load is offloaded to the receiver

its like DVI vs VGA, if that helps you think about it, it doesn't magically mean the monitor is handling the rendering because you've hooked it up with DVI, it just means you're using a digital connection to send the data
 
I did not say anything about feeding a "mono" signal. Or button mashing. The original post asked a question about if a sound card would make a difference in his system running to a receiver and a 2.1 setup.
I do not believe that he would "hear" a difference no matter how much money he spent on a sound card in his current setup. I am assuming he has a fairly new on board solution but do not know that.
 
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Snufykat said:
I did not say anything about feeding a "mono" signal. Or button mashing. The original post asked a question about if a sound card would make a difference in his system running to a receiver and a 2.1 setup.
I do not believe that he would "hear" a difference no matter how much money he spent on a sound card in his current setup. I am assuming he has a fairly new on board solution but do not know that.
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and as multiple people have told you
there is no difference in quality, but the soundcard does add more processing features, even for stereo, regardless of how new his onboard is
 
Most people are fine with onboard audio but they have no idea how much better it could sound with a proper sound card. In a way it is like with good headphones, or a car. You are probably ok with average ones until you get to use something better.
 
I agree most are fine with standard stuff, it takes alot more than a sound card to get something better for computer audio.
 
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Uncle Jim said:
Most people are fine with onboard audio but they have no idea how much better it could sound with a proper sound card. In a way it is like with good headphones, or a car. You are probably ok with average ones until you get to use something better.
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Just changing a sound card will not result in "better".
To use your car analougy, thats like saying your car is now better because you got the floor mats out of a porshe in your cavalier.
 
Well, an onboard sound is a floor mat while a sound card is the engine :)

I agree speakers matter a lot and so does the quality of the amplifier, and I understand what you are saying, but if your source of signal is c r a p you just get amplified c r a p through your speakers. So having a proper source matters, and it matters especially, once you have good speakers or good headphones. If $800 is supposed to buy you all of this the compromise cannot be avoided.
 
Like someone above said, just send the digital signal straight out to the receiver and let it do the processing. The SR4002 is a nice piece of kit that will do a great job with the digital signal.
 
I would say yes, depending on the card. The DAC in a receiver isn't going to be as good, generally speaking as one found on a high end audio card.
 
i would think the DAC on a receiver would be better then most sound cards, unless your talking high end pro audio cards, which i dont think this user is looking for.
 
MrGuvernment said:
i would think the DAC on a receiver would be better then most sound cards, unless your talking high end pro audio cards, which i dont think this user is looking for.
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I was speaking to at least what I'd call high end cards, stuff like my Essence STX. Now, I bet the DAC in that Marantz is way better than a 25 dollar audigy, no question, but I would have to hear a side by side demo for me to believe it is better than the one in my soundcard. Most modern AVRs put a lot of effort into all of the video switching and audio is not longer its primary purpose. A buddy of mine has a Yamaha 363 which he connected via optical and it didn't sound as good as my 33 year old Technics using my STX as the DAC.
 
crazyjeeper said:
I was speaking to at least what I'd call high end cards, stuff like my Essence STX. Now, I bet the DAC in that Marantz is way better than a 25 dollar audigy, no question, but I would have to hear a side by side demo for me to believe it is better than the one in my soundcard. Most modern AVRs put a lot of effort into all of the video switching and audio is not longer its primary purpose. A buddy of mine has a Yamaha 363 which he connected via optical and it didn't sound as good as my 33 year old Technics using my STX as the DAC.
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true, i just never consider a company like creative, or maybe even Asus as using too high quality for their cards, considering the cost.

That is one good thing about audio equipment, even at 33 years old, it will still sounds awsome! Often times sounds better then most of the newer stuff that is out which their cheap parts and boards and dac's and so on.
 
Unless a sound card has a Burr Brown/TI DAC, it won't approach what you'll find in a quality AV receiver.
 
MonkeyRoach said:
digital is digital a SPDIF on a onboard vs soundcard is the same
Click to expand...

just a few weeks ago i would have put a QFT under your message.
but since i use a external usb device to generate the digital out i have a significant lower noise floor.

OP: i would suggest that you buy a nice usb soundcard with digital out to your receiver.
If you want to go a bit more high end you can get a usb dac like the audio-gd compass.
 
shadowlord said:
just a few weeks ago i would have put a QFT under your message.
but since i use a external usb device to generate the digital out i have a significant lower noise floor.

OP: i would suggest that you buy a nice usb soundcard with digital out to your receiver.
If you want to go a bit more high end you can get a usb dac like the audio-gd compass.
Click to expand...

god not this whole mythos again.....

MrGuvernment said:
true, i just never consider a company like creative, or maybe even Asus as using too high quality for their cards, considering the cost.

That is one good thing about audio equipment, even at 33 years old, it will still sounds awsome! Often times sounds better then most of the newer stuff that is out which their cheap parts and boards and dac's and so on.
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eh, not all old stuff is good, and not all new stuff is crap, most 20-30 year old D/A's aren't worth the power used to run them

and Creative/Auzen and Asus both use fairly high end D/A's vs the junk that flies in CE devices, most decent soundcards are ~$100-$200, there are complete receivers that can be had for that, and you think the soundcard has a worse quality D/A? honestly until you get into the four-figure range, a receiver doesn't really have anything "special" in terms of quality compared to most high end computer audio devices

Mr. Wolf said:
Unless a sound card has a Burr Brown/TI DAC, it won't approach what you'll find in a quality AV receiver.
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lol what?
ever heard of AKM, Cirrus Logic, or Analog Devices?
seriously I fail to understand why this board is convinced of two things:
A) that Burr Brown only seems to make one product
B) that Burr Brown's single product seems to be the best of anything ever made

seriously, there are other options out there, and many of them are quite good
on top of this, having Burr Brown D/As doesn't automatically mean you have the best DA ever made, its like saying because you have a Hummer you have the best offroad vehicle which will ever be made, and it also assumes that Hummer is a singular product and manufacturer, neither of these is true

many Creative boards use Cirrus D/A's, so do a lot of receivers, discrete DACs, and HT processors, does this mean they're all inferior? no.

its always interesting to see what kind of hysteria people will create/believe
 
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Yeah, I've heard of other DACs. This probably will come as a shock to you, but you're not the only person around here who knows something about audio equipment. You're notoriously contemptuous of anyone who disagrees with your exalted opinions, but Cirrus DACs aren't as well-regarded as Burr Brown/TI. That's a fact whether you like it or not. Marantz uses Cirrus in their low to mid level receivers, but you'll find BB/TI DACs in their upper end models. Several other manufacturers do the same thing. I suppose they'd all learn the error of their ways if they consulted you first, though. :rolleyes:
 
honestly I've yet to see any quantitative proof that Burr Brown is "always better" than Cirrus or AKM, especially considering that Cirrus has D/A's posting identical or better numbers to various BB products

there is no "fact" that says Burr-Brown is the best, its one of a few vendors that produce fairly high end products, in terms of "Burr-Brown is the only option found in super high end gear", this is untrue as well, they don't have some cap on 115-125 dB SNR parts, and Cirrus and Analog devices are found in plenty of high end components (as well as plenty of low end components, because in some mad attempt to make a profit, vendors make more than one product)

which is mostly why I pointed out that claiming BB/TI is "required for high end" is a fallacy, nowhere in there did I imply that I'm the only source of knowledge, I'd actually hope that everyone else is fairly educated as well, instead of just buying into hype or myth

if this offended you, I do apologize, nowhere am I insisting that my opinion is the only way (also, I don't see what I posted that could be construed as purely subjective opinion)
 
Mr. Wolf said:
Yeah, I've heard of other DACs. This probably will come as a shock to you, but you're not the only person around here who knows something about audio equipment. You're notoriously contemptuous of anyone who disagrees with your exalted opinions, but Cirrus DACs aren't as well-regarded as Burr Brown/TI. That's a fact whether you like it or not. Marantz uses Cirrus in their low to mid level receivers, but you'll find BB/TI DACs in their upper end models. Several other manufacturers do the same thing. I suppose they'd all learn the error of their ways if they consulted you first, though. :rolleyes:
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This is a load of crap imo. Burr Brown makes low level DACs as well, just as Cirrus and AKM make high end DACs as well.

Going by your Marantz analogy, Marantz uses Cirrus's flagship CS4398 in several of its Reference series players, including the brand new and very well received SA-KI Pearl (Which is worth about triple what your receiver sells for). Looking through the rest of the Reference line, I don't count a single player using a Burr Brown dac among them.
 
skyline889 said:
This is a load of crap imo. Burr Brown makes low level DACs as well, just as Cirrus and AKM make high end DACs as well.

Going by your Marantz analogy, Marantz uses Cirrus's flagship CS4398 in several of its Reference series players, including the brand new and very well received SA-KI Pearl (Which is worth about triple what your receiver sells for). Looking through the rest of the Reference line, I don't count a single player using a Burr Brown dac among them.
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You're looking at DVD players, simpleton. :rolleyes:
 
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