Is my PC underperforming?

I

Irbyz

n00b
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
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15
Hi.

I've just bought Palit GTX660 OC 2048Mb GDDR5 graphics card and installed it in my system.
Seems like I have lower performance in some games than I'd expect.

As I have 120Hz monitor I'm trying to get 120 FPS whenever possible.
In Diablo 3 FPS starts to jump whenever I encounter group of enemy or load new location. Also using spells, especially ones that let me quickly travel from one area to another seem to affect this. During it i can notice some very annoying stuttering/frame loss. Even if i cap FPS at 60, i will still have this. VSync is disabled both in the game and in NVIDIA Control Panel.
I can notice the stuttering in COD4 too when playing single player on max settings. FPS is also very unstable depending on the location, sometimes dropping to 80, sometimes to 50 and lower.
FPS drops and stuttering also happened to me in Portal 2, although very rare, mostly when entering new place, otherwise there's no stutter and it's steady 120.

I'm not actually sure if it's graphics card issue or drivers issue, or other parts. If hardware is faulty or it's just how it's supposed to be given rest of my system is 2,5 years old and can be bottlenecking graphics card.
But quite some time ago I had GTX560 for a few weeks. Unfortunately, I didn't try to measure performance back then, but i don't remember any noticeable stuttering in COD4 during that time. I didn't have USB DAC/AMP back then though which probably drains some of CPU power with software mixing.

Here's the rest of my system config:
CPU Intel Core i3-530 2.93GHz 4Mb Cache
RAM Corsair XMS3 4Gb (2x2Gb) DDR3 1333MHz
MB ASUS P7H55/USB3
HDD Western Digital Caviar Green 1Tb 64Mb Cache (and some old 160Gb Seagate, don't remember the actual model)
PSU Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus 460W
Monitor LG W2363D-PF 120Hz
Audio FiiO E10 USB DAC Headphone Amplifier (onboard audio is disabled in BIOS)

I think CPU did start to heat more recently, now i get alert messages from ASUS AI Suite about 65-68 C temp on the CPU while playing games. Never had those messages before, but i don't remember if i ever measured what would be max temps for my CPU under load before.
Maybe it can be PSU too since it did survive quite a few electricity shutdowns, and it's already not very good as i was told. It's also older than the rest of my system, might be around 4 years, not sure.

I'd like to find out if my PC performs worse than it should and if yes then why.
In case of bottleneck I'm looking for advices how i could upgrade without paying too much and replacing the rest of my system all together.. Maybe I could just buy new CPU heatsink and overclock CPU, buy more RAM...

Thanks in advance!
 
The easiest explanation I could give is that you should have went with the GTX 660 Ti instead of the "plain" GTX 660. But since you mentioned several "performance bottlenecks" that you're concerned with:

-- Priority 1A is the GPU. You could either replace your current card with a better one like the aforementioned GTX 660 Ti or buy a second GTX 660 to pair in SLI mode. If you can swing it, I recommend grabbing a new card like the GTX 670 or the HD 7950 and then selling your old card to recoup some of your money.

-- Priority 1B is replacing your PSU with a better quality model. What you choose depends in part on whether you want to go with a one-card or two-card setup, but nowadays you can get a good PSU of up to 750 watts for under $100. The Seasonic S12/M12 series and the Corsair TX/HX series are good choices.

-- Buying a new CPU cooler and overclocking your processor are good ideas. A good CPU cooler is the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus/Evo, which fits on a Socket 1156 board and costs less than $40.

-- I don't believe that you need more RAM, but I wouldn't blame you if you bought a 2x4GB kit for around $50. But take care of Priorities 1A and 1B first.

-- If you can afford one, you may want to buy a 120GB-to-256GB SSD and use that as your primary drive. You'll see a noticeable performance boost as the SSD starts up and loads games and programs much faster than either of your HDDs. But it won't improve frame rates to the same extent as a better video card would.

-- Another "long-term" item to consider, given your history with "electronic shutdowns," is an uninterruptible power supply (UPS). A good UPS not only acts as a surge protector but also has a battery backup that gives you time to properly shut down your system during a surge or power outage.

In short, the upgrades you should consider are, in order: GPU, PSU, CPU cooler, SSD (if you can afford one), UPS (if you can afford one), RAM (not really needed in your situation).
 
You are going to need to invest in more horsepower if you want 120 FPS minimums in most or all games. I personally think you would want to go much higher than the 660 or 660Ti.
 
pretty much you dont have the gpu muscle to push the frames you want at the settings you are using

either drop the graphic settings down to where you achieve the FPS you desire or get a more powerful card
 
Hi guys.

Thanks for the responses so far.

Sorry, i forgot to say that I'm trying to get 120 FPS in games that i expected to be not too demanding on hardware. E.g. Portal 2 uses old Source engine, COD4MW is game from 2007.
In COD4MW it even dropped below 50 sometimes although rarely.
But even then, I'd be fine with FPS dropping but the stuttering is very annoying. In game like Metro 2033 my FPS would drop to someting like 22 in some places, however it's just very unsmooth but there's no stutter like in previously mentioned games. Maybe I used incorrect word, i experience some very short freezing. In Diablo 3 even capping FPS to 60 doesn't help.
I do realize that in most modern games i won't get anywhere close to 120 FPS.

@tiraides
Thanks for detailed info.
Yes, I'm considering to buy UPS also.
 
First, how much do you have right now for these upgrades? A better video card will cost at least $300, and you should add another $100 to cover the costs of a power supply. No, it's not buy one or the other; if you buy a(nother) video card, you need to replace your PSU.

We also need to know what your case is. Depending on the case and its internals, some video cards may not even fit inside.
 
I think since upgrade is going to cost above my expectations i rather stick with what i have and try to lower settings in games/use lower fps cap.

Probably i will just apply new thermal paste to cpu and overclock it just slightly, and then buy UPS at some point (electricity shutdowns are not common here during spring and summer, so no need yet).

Thanks for info and help :)
 
Please answer my questions as a CPU overclock alone won't improve frame rates as much as a new, more powerful video card.

Sooner or later -- sooner, if I had to predict -- the performance issues will reach a point where you'll have to eventually replace your entire system. If you have the money, you can take some "initial steps" now to mitigate the pain compared to a complete system overhaul.
 
Quartz-1 said:
Not really. The 430W it can actually push out is more than enough for one card. You can't quite run a 690 or Titan on it but I don't think those are in his budget.
Click to expand...

The power supply can't deliver its rated power under "normal" conditions. The OP's PSU is four years old, has gone through four "electrical outages," and may be used for either a more powerful, higher-end video card or a dual-card SLI setup -- and there's also the possibility that the OP overclocks his processor.

I still believe that the OP should buy a new PSU when he buys a new (or a second) video card.
 
@tiraides
Thanks for still helping me.

I guess i'd have enough money for any upgrade, but I'm not sure how much i'm willing to pay, guess the less the better. Also I think i still can exchange this graphics card for another one, since i've bought it just recently.

My case is Thermaltake Swing VB6000BNS
http://www.thermaltake.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00000248 It's almost identical to this one, but mine doesn't have transparent panel. HDD case may indeed block too long graphics card.

Now i played League of Legends and after some time i noticed FPS drops, in some situations it even dropped to 33, but in the beginning it was 120 steady.
I really thought my PC should be able to handle those old/low demanding games. I still think there might be something wrong with my hardware, e.g. CPU overheating. Or maybe something with drivers or i need to reinstall Win7...
 
Wow...such over the top fixes suggested right away. Is someone really suggesting a power supply upgrade as well? Slow down and try a few things first before spending money. OC that cpu as those things are monster over-clockers. Even a modest oc of a few hundred mhz should help. Also try tightening up the memory timings a bit. Remember some games are pretty cpu intensive, especially for a dual core cpu. If you notice a good improvement after doing those adjustments then you have your answer. FYI...120 is a stretch for that video card but tweaking should help.
 
pcjunkie said:
Wow...such over the top fixes suggested right away. Is someone really suggesting a power supply upgrade as well? Slow down and try a few things first before spending money. OC that cpu as those things are monster over-clockers. Even a modest oc of a few hundred mhz should help. Also try tightening up the memory timings a bit. Remember some games are pretty cpu intensive, especially for a dual core cpu. If you notice a good improvement after doing those adjustments then you have your answer. FYI...120 is a stretch for that video card but tweaking should help.
Click to expand...
Since he has a stock HSF and says its getting hot, probably not the best idea.
 
@pcjunkie
I'll be off to work all day, so i'll probably try overclocking tomorrow.
I already tried OCing a day ago. First i tried to OC to 3.6GHz but Windows gave me BSOD when loading. I'm new to OCing so I could've done something wrong. Then i tried 3.3GHz and it went fine but I didn't test it much yet since CPU already seems to be overheating and changed back to defaults.
I'm actually not aiming to get 120 in every game, just in some old/not resource hungry ones.
So strange that my FPS would even go below 50 in COD4 sometimes when my PC already must be far better than hardware of 2007.
And even then, the most annoying thing is not just frames going down but this weird stuttering/very short freezing.
I guess this stutter may really have something to do with CPU. When I don't game i'm on Linux, so once i was watching 1080p video. I was using xv (cpu decoding) and experienced some short freezes till i switched to VDPAU (gpu decoding) and then it was fine.
 
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Irbyz said:
@pcjunkie
I'll be off to work all day, so i'll probably try overclocking tomorrow.
I already tried OCing a day ago. First i tried to OC to 3.6GHz but Windows gave me BSOD when loading. I'm new to OCing so I could've done something wrong. Then i tried 3.3GHz and it went fine but I didn't test it much yet since CPU already seems to be overheating and changed back to defaults.
I'm actually not aiming to get 120 in every game, just in some old/not resource hungry ones.
So strange that my FPS would even go below 50 in COD4 sometimes when my PC already must be far better than hardware of 2007.
And even then, the most annoying thing is not just frames going down but this weird stuttering/very short freezing.
I guess this stutter may really have something to do with CPU. When I don't game i'm on Linux, so once i was watching 1080p video. I was using xv (cpu decoding) and experienced some short freezes till i switched to VDPAU (gpu decoding) and then it was fine.
Click to expand...

Were you overclocking with the stock Intel HSF or a third-party CPU cooler? If the latter, which one?

Did you experience any stuttering or freezing when running any program (besides games) or watching videos in Windows?

Can you remove the HDD cage in your case? Are you currently using the cage to store your hard drives?

Have you tried running games or watching video without the USB DAC in place?
 
@tiraides
I was overclocking with stock HSF. While i know it doesn't sound like very good idea, i read several times that people ran Core i3-530 @ 3.6 with stock HSF successfully.

YES, spot on. I think i can notice some stuttering even on desktop, e.g. while browsing web. Even more so it's noticeable in Linux. At first i thought it was just a placebo. Also I can deffo notice stuttering while watching flash video minimized on Linux, otherwise there's no stutter when it's maximized o_O Seems like no problem on Windows, however on Windows i watched only flash videos so far.

Yes, the HDD cage can be removed. And yes i'm using it to store HDDs right now.

I removed USB DAC and played COD4. While it seems to be slightly better, stuttering is still present.
While i was playing CPU temp went up to whooping 78 C... I think I halt all testing for now till i buy new thermal paste and apply it, not sure if everything is fine with HSF too as it seems to be more noisy now...
 
Based on what you've told us, I believe that the stuttering problem is caused by the processor. I don't know if it's a matter of your dual-core being overworked or something more sinister (like a significant defect within the processor itself).

I suggest that you get the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus from the cheapest place you can find (if you're paying more than $35, you're paying too much). Be sure that you remove all of the old thermal compound from the i3-530 and use the thermal material that came with the Hyper 212 Plus. Then overclock the processor back to 3.6GHz and try performing your day-to-day tasks without the USB DAC attached.

All I will say about the power supply at this point is that I still recommend replacing it, if you can afford to. I recommend a better quality power supply along the lines of either the Corsair CX600 or the Corsair TX650* (of those two, I'd pick the TX650 -- but I'm keeping things very simple at this moment). I'm not confident enough to say that your current Cooler Master PSU is part of your problems, but then again, I'm not too confident in relying on it as a long-term solution.

* I don't know why Amazon is showing the V1 model. All of my links and searching suggest that Amazon is selling the V2 model.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
@tiraides
Thank you for suggestions.
Can you recommend some other HSF, as this one seems to be particularly hard to find in my area. Looks like it was very popular and Cooler Master is no longer producing them.
 
See if either the Hyper 212 Evo or the Hyper T4 (both are newer variants of the Hyper 212 Plus design) is available.

If neither Cooler Master cooler is available, you're basically looking for a tower-style CPU cooler that uses at least one 120mm or 140mm case fan.
 
Okay, looks like i will go with Hyper T4. Most likely i will have it on Friday.
The price is around $33.

Thanks.
 
DUPE/EDIT: ... And sorry about the U.S.-based pricing and links. I should have asked the "Where are you (buying) from?" question a lot earlier.
 
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Hi.

I bought this HSF and installed. Seems to work fine so far and it's a lot more quiet.
CPU temp is 22 C at idle clocks while fan runs just at 620 RPM (I enabled QFan Standard profile in my ASUS mobo BIOS).
I will try to overclock soon and report back.
 
For now, just try to overclock to 3.6GHz. Once you're there (assuming that the OC is stable), try running at that speed for 48 to 72 hours.
 
Okay.

I only managed to overclock to 3.5GHz so far. I need to do some study on overclocking since i'm new to it.
Don't think i noticed any stuttering on desktop. In COD4 it's still present albeit seems to be much better.
I also ran 3DMark11. I know it's not best benchmark for CPU but rather as stress test. However overall score went from something like 5050 to 5443.
 
Depends on the game. Most games i tested so far are old or use old engine or supposed to be low demanding. E.g. CoD4 is from 2007, Portal 2 is built on Source engine, League of Legends has 2D graphics, Diablo 3 has relatively simple graphics. So i usually try to max everything out in those games and cap FPS at 120. Otherwise I don't strive to get 120 FPS or anything close in modern games. I originally bought 120Hz monitor for online shooters where i had low settings to ensure best performance, now it's just a bonus.
In games like Metro 2033 i would try to lower settings, e.g. set AAA anti-alising instead of 4xMSAA.

I played some more League of Legends and i believe performance is stable. Now it seems to be 120 all the time.
Diablo 3 still stutters.. Maybe it's not just my setup because people with much better systems than mine still got the same problem according to their forums. I capped FPS at 60 and lowered shadows quality. It's a lot more playable but still not perfect. Maybe when i'll manage to OC CPU to 4.0GHz the problem will be gone.

And thanks again for help with choosing HSF.
 
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League of Legends does not have 2d graphics, it's just isometric =P
 
Irbyz said:
Depends on the game. Most games i tested so far are old or use old engine or supposed to be low demanding. E.g. CoD4 is from 2007, Portal 2 is built on Source engine, League of Legends has 2D graphics, Diablo 3 has relatively simple graphics. So i usually try to max everything out in those games and cap FPS at 120. Otherwise I don't strive to get 120 FPS or anything close in modern games. I originally bought 120Hz monitor for online shooters where i had low settings to ensure best performance, now it's just a bonus.
In games like Metro 2033 i would try to lower settings, e.g. set AAA anti-alising instead of 4xMSAA.

I played some more League of Legends and i believe performance is stable. Now it seems to be 120 all the time.
Diablo 3 still stutters.. Maybe it's not just my setup because people with much better systems than mine still got the same problem according to their forums. I capped FPS at 60 and lowered shadows quality. It's a lot more playable but still not perfect. Maybe when i'll manage to OC CPU to 4.0GHz the problem will be gone.

And thanks again for help with choosing HSF.
Click to expand...

You're welcome. The stuttering was a big enough problem that I had to focus on your processor first.

If you can reach 4GHz and it's a stable OC, let us know whether or not you're still suffering from stuttering in games. It's possible that the processor is still being "overworked" (for lack of a better term) as some of the games (and other tasks you're performing) work better with a quad-core processor than your dual-core i3-530.

Then again, some of the gaming issues (e.g. your problems with Diablo III) suggest that the GTX 660 may not be powerful enough to give you the frame rates (and/or visual settings) that you desire. But if you decide to upgrade your GPU in any way -- by buying either a better video card to replace your current one or a second GTX 660 for a dual-card SLI setup -- I still recommend that you buy a more powerful, better quality PSU than what you currently have.

Before I forget, have you tried using the USB DAC yet?
 
If there are no (noticeable) issues with the DAC, then keep using the DAC.

The only thing left to do before we start considering upgrades is to push your overclocking as far as possible. If the (stable) higher overclocking fixes the stuttering problem, great. But if not, the problem may lie with your graphics card.
 
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