Is Nvidia/Ati launching a video card better than the 280 anytime soon?

I

IsaacMM

Gawd
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
646
Yes i know the 4870x2 will be here soon, but apart from it, is there any news on future high end cards from Nvidia or Ati?
 
If they launch a retail card with water cooling as the Super 4870 supposedly will have that will be pretty awesome.
 
1GB 4870s should pop up at some point, as well as the die-shrunk GTX 280/60. there probably won't be any "news" on truly new cores for months, other than what you can derive from looking at each company's road maps and such.
 
The 9800GX2 is already here ;).
But seriously, the 4870X2 as well as super rv770s with 1 gig of memory will be here very soon.
 
Define anytime soon. The refresh for the GTX280 should be here within 6 months.
 
i guess the real question is do we need anything faster than a GTX280 right now? You can run two GTX280's if you have a SLI board or two 4870's in CF and max out most monitors.
 
Some people do not like running 2 cards, and we do need something faster than the GTX 280, as it still cannot run Crysis @ 1920x1200 with everything on Very High and with 4xAA. Also, remember that Crysis is last year's system killer, and every year another game comes out that requires a stronger system than the top game of the year before....still plenty of time left in '08.
 
it seems like now almost everyone is capable of having top ends cards. i wish they would focus in making games that make use of these powerful cards.
imo i dont think nvidia will have nothing for now. they just released the 280, that, was their best i think.
 
JVC said:
it seems like now almost everyone is capable of having top ends cards. i wish they would focus in making games that make use of these powerful cards.
imo i dont think nvidia will have nothing for now. they just released the 280, that, was their best i think.
Click to expand...

I think games from 2008 onward will have great improvements. In the past 6 months. Huge quantities of at least 8800GT level cards entered the general user base. Thus have raised the minimum gfx capability devs can target.
 
i dont consider crysis the "top game" just because it has demanding graphics. I don't like the game myself, lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig.
 
would someone like to explain to me how a 55nm refresh of the gtx 280 is supposed to compete with the 4870x2? Especially the 2gb DDR 5 version
 
the question is do we really need anything that fast, how many of us have 30" monitors, probably less than 5% of the gamers. I really don't want another card that is fast where it gives me 90fps and my current card give me 70fps, the companies only hurt themselves by realsing highends fast, I don't think we will see any refresh of any of these cards until 1st quarter of 2009
 
myndcrime said:
would someone like to explain to me how a 55nm refresh of the gtx 280 is supposed to compete with the 4870x2? Especially the 2gb DDR 5 version
Click to expand...

This is all speculation since we don't even have the 4870x2 out yet, so where are some possibilities

1) Going to 55nm and tweaking allow for a GTX 280x2 or some other type of dual GPU solution and maybe nVidia goes with 2GB DDR5 themselves and keeps the 512bit memory interface. Talk about memory bandwidth. Don't really know what you can do with that much.

No matter what, unless nVidia is just planning on going out of business they are working something out I guarantee. nVidia is a little down. Great companies know how to get back in the game. We'll see how nVidia climbs back.

If they don't and just fail then we all better hope that Intel starts making GPU's!
 
redman223 said:
Some people do not like running 2 cards, and we do need something faster than the GTX 280, as it still cannot run Crysis @ 1920x1200 with everything on Very High and with 4xAA. Also, remember that Crysis is last year's system killer, and every year another game comes out that requires a stronger system than the top game of the year before....still plenty of time left in '08.
Click to expand...


you got one thing right, and that is that crysis is nothing but a system killer, even devolopers have admitted the code is crap, there is no reason gtx280 or hd 4870 should not be able to play crysis at very high, it is just poorly coded game and it was released with hype. just look at it this way, they even killed the support for the game, after 2 patches, because they are already working on Warhead, which was shown running on a midrange system, so that just means that whatever was wrong with crysis will most likly be fixed with Warhead, it better be otherwise cryengine will get the most unoptimizable engine in the world award.

it is not the cards at fault it is crytek. Looks don't matter alot if it is going to run like crap, there are other games that come within 90% of crysis looks and perform about 4 times better.
 
Nvidia won't fail but I really don't think that even on 55nm at dual gtx 280 will be possible, it will still be a big chip, they just need to shrink it to atleast 45-40nm before they even think about making it a dual gpu card.
 
The nVidia "counterpart" to the 4870X2 will be a 55nm 280 GX2 coming out in August...which will have a performance boost...not a "big" boost...just enough to take the performance crown again.

Then in Q1 2009 we will get a 380GTX 55nm, 256 Bit bus, GDDR5, with DirectX 10.1 support.

At least that's what my reading on other forums has lead me to believe....
 
NKD said:
you got one thing right, and that is that crysis is nothing but a system killer, even devolopers have admitted the code is crap, there is no reason gtx280 or hd 4870 should not be able to play crysis at very high, it is just poorly coded game and it was released with hype. just look at it this way, they even killed the support for the game, after 2 patches, because they are already working on Warhead, which was shown running on a midrange system, so that just means that whatever was wrong with crysis will most likly be fixed with Warhead, it better be otherwise cryengine will get the most unoptimizable engine in the world award.

it is not the cards at fault it is crytek. Looks don't matter alot if it is going to run like crap, there are other games that come within 90% of crysis looks and perform about 4 times better.
Click to expand...


Any piece of code can be made better over time, like any piece of hardware. I do not understand why if a game can't be maxed out on a single card its because of bad code. It very well could just as easily be over ambitious code, trying to be to high tech with current hardware.

Plus with the advent of the 4870x2, Crysis may be able to be maxed out with a single card in less than a years time after its release.

I'm a big fan of Crysis. To me this what PC gaming is all about. A cool shooter that looks great that taxed hardware. I just love stuff like this because it advances things. Unfortunately, we're not going see any more Crysis like projects because of all the whining about not being able to max the game out instead of playing with settings that your system can handle.

In fact, because of this type of whining, PC games are going to get fewer upgrades over console versions because devs are going to be concerned that if they happen to put some next gen tech into the game and its slow on current gen hardware then people are going to say the code is crap.

Crysis has always been playable on mid range systems, just not very high with AA and high resolutions.
 
TSMC's 40nm general-purpose process was pushed back till Feb-March 09. Nvidia, and ATI are supposed to have new chips built on the 40nm process. I read this somewhere, but cant find the link at the moment.:confused:
 
heatlesssun said:
This is all speculation since we don't even have the 4870x2 out yet, so where are some possibilities

1) Going to 55nm and tweaking allow for a GTX 280x2 or some other type of dual GPU solution and maybe nVidia goes with 2GB DDR5 themselves and keeps the 512bit memory interface. Talk about memory bandwidth. Don't really know what you can do with that much.

No matter what, unless nVidia is just planning on going out of business they are working something out I guarantee. nVidia is a little down. Great companies know how to get back in the game. We'll see how nVidia climbs back.

If they don't and just fail then we all better hope that Intel starts making GPU's!
Click to expand...

laugh, the 280 would still be too big for an x2 solution, and nvidia's x2 solutions thus far have sucked. You've even said so yourself, my friend. ATI designed their new chips from the start for x2 solutions.

Now seeing as you blew nearly $2k on nvidia cards I can see how you'd be a bit of a fanboy, but saying "nvidia will come up with something better.. because they're nvidia!" is stupid. imo.
 
myndcrime said:
laugh, the 280 would still be too big for an x2 solution, and nvidia's x2 solutions thus far have sucked. You've even said so yourself, my friend. ATI designed their new chips from the start for x2 solutions.

Now seeing as you blew nearly $2k on nvidia cards I can see how you'd be a bit of a fanboy, but saying "nvidia will come up with something better.. because they're nvidia!" is stupid. imo.
Click to expand...

Seeing how you have nothing better to say than someone else is stupid because of how they spent their money, i would say, you are stupid. Laugh.
 
nissanztt90 said:
Seeing how you have nothing better to say than someone else is stupid because of how they spent their money, i would say, you are stupid. Laugh.
Click to expand...

no, i said it's stupid to think that nvidia will always win because they are nvidia.
 
myndcrime said:
laugh, the 280 would still be too big for an x2 solution, and nvidia's x2 solutions thus far have sucked. You've even said so yourself, my friend. ATI designed their new chips from the start for x2 solutions.

Now seeing as you blew nearly $2k on nvidia cards I can see how you'd be a bit of a fanboy, but saying "nvidia will come up with something better.. because they're nvidia!" is stupid. imo.
Click to expand...

Never ceases to amaze me about this fanboy thing. I just wanted a blazing fast system and I really don't care who makes the chips. When Nehalem comes out and I ready to upgrade I'll build the best system around that AMD or nVidia. Assuming that AMD doesn't have a better CPU than Nehalem when I upgrade again.

Yes, the 9800 GX2 had its issues. Doesn't mean that a GTX 280x2 would. And who's to say that nVidia can't fit two GT200b's in a single card. Have you see one yet? Its all speculation one way or the other for now.

And as far as nVidia doing better, why not? AMD turned things around. No matter what you think about nVidia I really doubt that they are just sitting on their hands and doing nothing to out do AMD. Not saying that they will "well nVidia has had some bumps in the the road so they just decided to give up." Now THAT sounds stupid.
 
heatlesssun said:
Yes, the 9800 GX2 had its issues. Doesn't mean that a GTX 280x2 would. And who's to say that nVidia can't fit two GT200b's in a single card. Have you see one yet? Its all speculation one way or the other for now.

And as far as nVidia doing better, why not? AMD turned things around. No matter what you think about nVidia I really doubt that they are just sitting on their hands and doing nothing to out do AMD. Not saying that they will "well nVidia has had some bumps in the the road so they just decided to give up." Now THAT sounds stupid.
Click to expand...
AMD has been focusing on the multi-GPUs for quite some time already while nVidia has been treating as an afterthought.
The GTX280 has not been designed to be paired on a single card. With the 55nm shrink the Nvidia chips will still be too big and run too hot to be fitted on a single PCB . It's not a speculation. It's a fact.

It might sound stupid to you, but it was ATI not nVidia who's chosen the winning strategy by concentrating on the multi-GPUs.
 
heatlesssun said:
Never ceases to amaze me about this fanboy thing. I just wanted a blazing fast system and I really don't care who makes the chips. When Nehalem comes out and I ready to upgrade I'll build the best system around that AMD or nVidia. Assuming that AMD doesn't have a better CPU than Nehalem when I upgrade again.

Yes, the 9800 GX2 had its issues. Doesn't mean that a GTX 280x2 would. And who's to say that nVidia can't fit two GT200b's in a single card. Have you see one yet? Its all speculation one way or the other for now.

And as far as nVidia doing better, why not? AMD turned things around. No matter what you think about nVidia I really doubt that they are just sitting on their hands and doing nothing to out do AMD. Not saying that they will "well nVidia has had some bumps in the the road so they just decided to give up." Now THAT sounds stupid.
Click to expand...

There's a difference between giving up and simply being out of luck, for now at least. Of course they will come out with something else, but a shrink won't be enough. Look at the shrink of the 9800. I plan on upgrading by october for Far Cry 2, Fallout 3, Crysis Warhead, etc, so waiting for nvidia to come out with something new sometime next year isn't an option.

And SLI on Nehalem is still up in the air. It may or may not happen.
 
Keep in mind GPU refresh cycle is about 6 months, and new generation cycle is about a year or so. The thing with CPU and GPU design is, you plan thing WAY in advance. Specs are nailed down long before the actual release. You can't change things overnight. For example, the next gen GPU (what would have been "R800") is already under development. Companies must take educated guesses on a variety of factors: market conditions, cost, yield, competition etc.

My point is, sometimes these educated guess are right, sometime they are wrong. That's just the nature of the beast. NV guessed wrong this turn, no big deal. They have another chance to go at it at the next refresh. We'll see 6 months later. It's unfortunate that each "turn" in the CPU business is much longer, but what can you do but try harder next time?
 
unleashed said:
AMD has been focusing on the multi-GPUs for quite some time already while nVidia has been treating as an afterthought.
The GTX280 has not been designed to be paired on a single card. With the 55nm shrink the Nvidia chips will still be too big and run too hot to be fitted on a single PCB . It's not a speculation. It's a fact.

It might sound stupid to you, but it was ATI not nVidia who's chosen the winning strategy by concentrating on the multi-GPUs.
Click to expand...

Doesnt the GTX 200's run cooler than the 4800's? I find it amazing that people keep making this assertion. My GTX 280 runs cooler than the 6800GT it replaced, and yet it is probably 20x faster.
 
ATI ambushed nvidia with the 4000s series and might take the performance crown with the 4870x2 so I am sure nvidia is working day and night to bring out a solution to their problem (lost performance crown). However althought I am sure they are working asap on a new card I think the best thing nvidia can do right now is release better drivers for their cards. I mean the gtx260 and the 4870 are close, as well as the 9800 gtx+ and the 4850. With better drives and competitive pricing nvidia can take the momentum from ati. Better drivers for the gtx280 can also possibly allow it to compete nicely with the 4870x2 so instead of a better card then the 280, we might see a push for better drives from nvidia.
 
morfinx said:
Keep in mind GPU refresh cycle is about 6 months, and new generation cycle is about a year or so. The thing with CPU and GPU design is, you plan thing WAY in advance. Specs are nailed down long before the actual release. You can't change things overnight. For example, the next gen GPU (what would have been "R800") is already under development. Companies must take educated guesses on a variety of factors: market conditions, cost, yield, competition etc.

My point is, sometimes these educated guess are right, sometime they are wrong. That's just the nature of the beast. NV guessed wrong this turn, no big deal. They have another chance to go at it at the next refresh. We'll see 6 months later. It's unfortunate that each "turn" in the CPU business is much longer, but what can you do but try harder next time?
Click to expand...
There were rumors that Nvidia supposedly had a 55nm version of the GT200 series taped out a couple weeks before the GTX 280 launch.
 
unleashed said:
AMD has been focusing on the multi-GPUs for quite some time already while nVidia has been treating as an afterthought.
The GTX280 has not been designed to be paired on a single card. With the 55nm shrink the Nvidia chips will still be too big and run too hot to be fitted on a single PCB . It's not a speculation. It's a fact.

It might sound stupid to you, but it was ATI not nVidia who's chosen the winning strategy by concentrating on the multi-GPUs.
Click to expand...

nVidia had SLI long before CrossFire, and yes I know Rage Furry! And it looks like they'll all be one 40nm in less than a year so maybe that's when this design can take off.

I never said that AMD didn't have a good design obviouslyAMD won this round. That's cool for consumers because it helps prices. But these are GPU's we're talking about, with maybe twice the shelf life of milk. Today's winning strategy may not look like that a year from now. That's the nature of the business.
 
known12345 said:
ATI ambushed nvidia with the 4000s series and might take the performance crown with the 4870x2 so I am sure nvidia is working day and night to bring out a solution to their problem (lost performance crown). However althought I am sure they are working asap on a new card I think the best thing nvidia can do right now is release better drivers for their cards. I mean the gtx260 and the 4870 are close, as well as the 9800 gtx+ and the 4850. With better drives and competitive pricing nvidia can take the momentum from ati. Better drivers for the gtx280 can also possibly allow it to compete nicely with the 4870x2 so instead of a better card then the 280, we might see a push for better drives from nvidia.
Click to expand...

I think that a faster drivers story was floating around on Fud a while back. They'd need to get at least a 20% increase across the board to make it interesting. That's probably not easy if it's even possible.
 
defiant007 said:
Doesnt the GTX 200's run cooler than the 4800's? I find it amazing that people keep making this assertion. My GTX 280 runs cooler than the 6800GT it replaced, and yet it is probably 20x faster.
Click to expand...

It runs cooler, but it doesn't give off less heat. ;)
 
ATi wins this round, nVidia won the last round before that, we'll see what happens next time around, speculation and insulting each other isn't going to get the ATi or nVidia chips to run any faster currently, or in the future, just try to keep this shit civil.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think that a faster drivers story was floating around on Fud a while back. They'd need to get at least a 20% increase across the board to make it interesting. That's probably not easy if it's even possible.
Click to expand...

Everything is so much more possible when your company's reputation and profits are on the line. I mean iono if this article from the inquirer is correct (I know alot of their stuff is bs) but taking all the bias out, it isn't unreasonable to come away with the assumption that nvidia isn't exactly in the greatest situation in the high end market in addition to other markets...

Nvidia needs to get good news out fast, if not for the stockholders but for their reputation. I mean im sure many of us have seen the various polls taken in this site and various others; there is an overwhelming amount of support for the 4870 in the 4870 vs. gtx260/gtx260 category whether is it performance or value. Those individuals, whether they were former nvidia fanboys or not, will be hard pressed to switch back to nvidia even if nvidia releases better parts in the future. I mean its hard to find people not impressed by ATI's rise from competing in low-mid end markets to high markets with both less money and popularity compared to nvidia. Nvidia needs to diminish the effect of ATI's momentum asap and drivers seems like the quick, cheap solution (nvidia is lowering revenue for the quarter, even though they are not in the red, loosing money does not bold well for shareholders no matter if your in the red or the green).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top