Is the U.S. Losing Its Edge in Tech?

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A new study seems to suggest that the United States might be losing its edge in the tech sector compared to other countries around the world. The study, conducted by the Economist Intelligence Unit for the Business Software Alliance, says we lead the world in the "human capital" category but we are falling short in R&D and other areas.

The EIU's analysis also weighed the quality of a nation's technology infrastructure, measuring the number of PCs per 100 people, market spending on IT hardware per 100 people, the availability of secure Internet servers per 100,000 people, and the percentage of the population with high-speed Internet access.
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Of course, because everything is being outsourced thee days. We are also losing the edge because valuable jobs and positions that are fostering technological growths and advancements are also being terminated in favor of foreign positions.

My two cents.
 
It blows my mind how much money we spend on wars yet we have no money to spend to enhance our infrastructure. Sad really.
 
Thats because its solely up to the companies them selves, I'd place blame on the companies who try to squeeze every ounce of their old systems then anyone else ...

But in all honesty you can't stay up top for ever, sooner or later some other country will start to dominate, then they will be replaced by the next one, it happens. I mean how long were we trading places with technology advances with japan back in the 90's?
 
Trimlock said:
Thats because its solely up to the companies them selves, I'd place blame on the companies who try to squeeze every ounce of their old systems then anyone else ...

But in all honesty you can't stay up top for ever, sooner or later some other country will start to dominate, then they will be replaced by the next one, it happens. I mean how long were we trading places with technology advances with japan back in the 90's?
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Yep. It's a wave, things change. We may be lower now, but when something new comes out, we can be out and on top.

We have had a great run so far remaining at top, look how long it took for competing countries to catch up.
 
DeathCloud said:
It blows my mind how much money we spend on wars yet we have no money to spend to enhance our infrastructure. Sad really.
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Because the government doesn't pay for our infrastructures? Go yell at your ISP, not the government.
 
Ockie said:
Yep. It's a wave, things change. We may be lower now, but when something new comes out, we can be out and on top.

We have had a great run so far remaining at top, look how long it took for competing countries to catch up.
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I wouldn't say competing. My dad pointed something out to me the other night. He said the world playing field is completely unfair. New upstarts such as China and India is advancing at such rapid pace not because they have the know-how, but because they "cheat". They don't waste money on emission standards or cleaning up. They don't waste money on employees. They have no regards for the citizen's welfare or insurance.

If they followed international standards and clean-air/clean-earth laws and pay their workers fairly and treat them fairly, you can be sure they're not going to catch up, and we wouldn't be outsourcing to them. We would still keep all our jobs and thus technology would be developed HERE, not there.

Of course, this doesn't include other developed countries such as Europe and Japan.
 
Azhar said:
Because the government doesn't pay for our infrastructures? Go yell at your ISP, not the government.
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The Internet is built on DARANet/ARPANet. Many of our technologies come from NASA and the Defense Department. Most basic R&D / pure science was carried out in universities paid for by the government.

Now let's hop over to corporations who have been more than happy to cut R&D and stagnate. Corporations that, being shortsighted, let competent research teams go and farmed out the costs.

We were on top when the corporations AND government (by extension us) were willing to pay / work to be on top. Seems like we lost that desire.
 
too many business majors were put in charge of corporations. the research giants of the cold war era were mostly under the control of the people who started them from nothing.
 
it has nothing to do with outsourcing.

Has anyone actually seen the recent numbers from College/Unis of students pursuing math or science compared to "business" degrees?

Miniscule to say the least. Hell Calculus in high school? classes are almost non-exitant now a days. They have them but the "student" signed up for them are such a small percentage. Sooner or later it will catch up!
 
Inglix_the_Mad said:
The Internet is built on DARANet/ARPANet. Many of our technologies come from NASA and the Defense Department. Most basic R&D / pure science was carried out in universities paid for by the government.

Now let's hop over to corporations who have been more than happy to cut R&D and stagnate. Corporations that, being shortsighted, let competent research teams go and farmed out the costs.

We were on top when the corporations AND government (by extension us) were willing to pay / work to be on top. Seems like we lost that desire.
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Research!=infratsructure

You want the government building your internet go to China.
 
look.. usa emerged.. it worked hard.. it developed a standard of living.. it got lazy it started slipping... japan has more than begun its downward spiral.. and just like everyone before them they'll build up.. excede.. then get lazy and die off..
 
Azhar said:
I wouldn't say competing. My dad pointed something out to me the other night. He said the world playing field is completely unfair. New upstarts such as China and India is advancing at such rapid pace not because they have the know-how, but because they "cheat". They don't waste money on emission standards or cleaning up. They don't waste money on employees. They have no regards for the citizen's welfare or insurance.

If they followed international standards and clean-air/clean-earth laws and pay their workers fairly and treat them fairly, you can be sure they're not going to catch up, and we wouldn't be outsourcing to them. We would still keep all our jobs and thus technology would be developed HERE, not there.

Of course, this doesn't include other developed countries such as Europe and Japan.
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Yep, low wages included. Which is why China is facing a huge crisis right now with closing down plants because they are starting to be forced to comply with some things.


Inglix_the_Mad said:
The Internet is built on DARANet/ARPANet. Many of our technologies come from NASA and the Defense Department. Most basic R&D / pure science was carried out in universities paid for by the government.
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Government does not own the internet. They may have been the funders behind the initial program, it was handed to a open consortium that is owned by no one. ISP's are responsible for the backbones and pipes and private companies often also jump into the pool.

The government is responsible for the military, ISP's and private groups are involved with growing our infrastructure. Sure the govt can provide billions upon billions of dollars for a faster and bigger internet her in the US, but why should they when corporations are making hundreds of billions in pure profits? CEO's and even upper management of these companies are being paid hundreds of times more than even the top generals in the millitary.

The moment the government gets heavily involved, you'd have the other half of the world up in arms, so realy, it's a catch 22.

figgie said:
it has nothing to do with outsourcing.

Has anyone actually seen the recent numbers from College/Unis of students pursuing math or science compared to "business" degrees?

Miniscule to say the least. Hell Calculus in high school? classes are almost non-exitant now a days. They have them but the "student" signed up for them are such a small percentage. Sooner or later it will catch up!
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It has a lot to do with it, it leads the economy on a brain drain approach and it doesn't foster the proper environment that can be expanded upon.
 
Ockie said:
Of course, because everything is being outsourced thee days. We are also losing the edge because valuable jobs and positions that are fostering technological growths and advancements are also being terminated in favor of foreign positions.

My two cents.
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+1

The whole Reagan "trickle-down" has turned to "trickle-out" when wealthy corporations and individuals send their money out of the country rather than continuing to invest in this one.
 
PurduEE said:
+1

The whole Reagan "trickle-down" has turned to "trickle-out" when wealthy corporations and individuals send their money out of the country rather than continuing to invest in this one.
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I agree with you there. Instead of paying people what they are worth, get some young adult in a foreign country and pay them 3.00 an hour.
 
Ockie said:
Yep, low wages included. Which is why China is facing a huge crisis right now with closing down plants because they are starting to be forced to comply with some things.




Government does not own the internet. They may have been the funders behind the initial program, it was handed to a open consortium that is owned by no one. ISP's are responsible for the backbones and pipes and private companies often also jump into the pool.

The government is responsible for the military, ISP's and private groups are involved with growing our infrastructure. Sure the govt can provide billions upon billions of dollars for a faster and bigger internet her in the US, but why should they when corporations are making hundreds of billions in pure profits? CEO's and even upper management of these companies are being paid hundreds of times more than even the top generals in the millitary.

The moment the government gets heavily involved, you'd have the other half of the world up in arms, so realy, it's a catch 22.



It has a lot to do with it, it leads the economy on a brain drain approach and it doesn't foster the proper environment that can be expanded upon.
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nah

that is putting blame on everyone else save ourselves.

Again. why are the Physics classes, Advanced math classes always going but with small participation? China, India japan has ZERO to do with that. It has to do with students wanting the "easy" classes to just get a degree.
 
Curse the no edit!!.....

Also the reason why programmers have to be brought in from other countries. If the "graduates" are not taking programming classes and becoming familiar with programming. Why would Microsoft, Google, Yahoo etc pay someone to learn programming when that should have been done prior to them coming out of school.

Again. Blame everyone except ourselves. The blame is squarely our own (to the non "technical" folks and by technical I mean, Math and sciences).
 
One word to sum this up YES and it all starts with the education system we teach this country's children better the more tech savvy they will become as well to stem most of the current social and economic problems would be to teach ethics, cultural diversity and money management threw out grade school to high school to college where it all gets capped with more work oriented things.
 
figgie said:
nah

that is putting blame on everyone else save ourselves.

Again. why are the Physics classes, Advanced math classes always going but with small participation? China, India japan has ZERO to do with that. It has to do with students wanting the "easy" classes to just get a degree.
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I was putting the blame on us, not them (everyone else). We are outsourcing, we are encouraging to be lazy, we went from a services nation to a purchasers nation which leads to massive fund loss. Basically, it's our fault why other nations have our jobs now, not theirs... they are only offering the bait and we are biting.
 
Ockie said:
I was putting the blame on us, not them (everyone else). We are outsourcing, we are encouraging to be lazy, we went from a services nation to a purchasers nation which leads to massive fund loss. Basically, it's our fault why other nations have our jobs now, not theirs... they are only offering the bait and we are biting.
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they are not offering any bait.

Where are ALL the MIT like schools? Basically one school that is in the top of technology.

Then we have the Harvards, Yale, Princeton. How are thier Physics, Astrophyics, Math programs?

If we can not fill in the tech gap from inhouse. MS and the like go world wide to find the brains needed. In reality the outsource is not a cause but an effect of an undereducated populace.
 
The reason we're losing our edge is partially due to outsourcing and partially due to our sad state of education. Our science education standards are nowhere near where they should be and even a lot of high school graduates can't even get through basic algebra.
 
Of Course the US is losing the edge. Losing? More like thrown away because of .. OUTSOURCING...

Because the 3 guys at the top of every firm have to make 300x the regular guys salary so they kill off all the bright minds in the workforce to fatten their pockets. Where I work (im a consultant) the regular employess had to take a 15% paycut, the very next day the CEO got a 200 million dollar bonus. I would complain about not getting a raise this year but seeing as how they fired 10 of my team mates and hired guys working for peanuts in Brazil I think Ill keep my mouth shut about it. Im lucky.

No money for the workers - no spending, no spending - bad economy. Now even wall street is in the toilet.

Cmon, we lost the edge a long time ago. Whose going to spend money on IT when there is no money. The software stinks because the exec teams are busy coming up with new ideas so they can keep their jobs thus the tools are new and buggy instead of fixing the existing issues. The hardware stinks cause the company is trying to save money. So we ship crap and i see it bounce all the time.

Man we cant compete like this.
 
Ockie said:
Government does not own the internet. They may have been the funders behind the initial program, it was handed to a open consortium that is owned by no one. ISP's are responsible for the backbones and pipes and private companies often also jump into the pool.

The government is responsible for the military, ISP's and private groups are involved with growing our infrastructure. Sure the govt can provide billions upon billions of dollars for a faster and bigger internet her in the US, but why should they when corporations are making hundreds of billions in pure profits? CEO's and even upper management of these companies are being paid hundreds of times more than even the top generals in the millitary.

The moment the government gets heavily involved, you'd have the other half of the world up in arms, so realy, it's a catch 22.
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Paul_Johnson said:
Research!=infratsructure

You want the government building your internet go to China.
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You really don't get it? Okay I'll explain this. Much of our basic research on the human body came out of the moon shot. Heck it unleashed a whole new field in medicine based off the work that NASA was doing. There quite likely wouldn't be an Internet right now (for you to make foolish Laissez-Faire pronouncements on) had the government not wanted fail-safe, distributed location communications in the event of a nuclear war. Further the Internet wouldn't have existed without a bunch of college kids doing something AT&T claimed (all the way through the late 80's) would work or wouldn't scale. Quite literally.

Head's up displays in cars, the highway system, the internet, nuclear power, health-care advances, some lighting, optics, transmission methods, all of this DEPENDED on that big, bloated, foolish, heavy-handed, wasteful, ebil gubbermint to exist. Heck some of this stuff goes back to World War II guys!

I'm not saying corporations can't do research, or build infrastructure, but that they often can't see the forest for the trees. Nobody but the government really pays for pure science. Name a corporation that would have built the LHC on it's own.

See what I mean?
 
Inglix_the_Mad said:
You really don't get it? Okay I'll explain this. Much of our basic research on the human body came out of the moon shot. Heck it unleashed a whole new field in medicine based off the work that NASA was doing. There quite likely wouldn't be an Internet right now (for you to make foolish Laissez-Faire pronouncements on) had the government not wanted fail-safe, distributed location communications in the event of a nuclear war. Further the Internet wouldn't have existed without a bunch of college kids doing something AT&T claimed (all the way through the late 80's) would work or wouldn't scale. Quite literally.

Head's up displays in cars, the highway system, the internet, nuclear power, health-care advances, some lighting, optics, transmission methods, all of this DEPENDED on that big, bloated, foolish, heavy-handed, wasteful, ebil gubbermint to exist. Heck some of this stuff goes back to World War II guys!

I'm not saying corporations can't do research, or build infrastructure, but that they often can't see the forest for the trees. Nobody but the government really pays for pure science. Name a corporation that would have built the LHC on it's own.

See what I mean?
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Yes we do, but apparently you're the one who's misunderstanding us. We acknowledged government assistance in funding research or even causing researches to exist. But that's usually the extent of it. The government doesn't fund our internet. Our internet providers and their providers and their providers do.
 
no, the isps charge you for the internet the govt funded.


isnt that nice?
 
Valkhorn said:
The reason we're losing our edge is partially due to outsourcing and partially due to our sad state of education. Our science education standards are nowhere near where they should be and even a lot of high school graduates can't even get through basic algebra.
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this is true, i had an excellent education, however there is one thing that we suffer from. No one knows how to engage students. Science can be really cool, but for whatever reason they choose to make it as boring and stagnant as possible, same with history and math. I would have happily finished computer science if it wasn't taught by a bunch of punchcard assholes at my university that looked at visual studio like it was some great evil.

They need to revamp the programs and then people will brave the harder classes.

as for outsourcing this is also a problem. As an IT person who started down this road when IT was a big money field....It's very depressing seeing the decline of IT due to outsourcing and yes BUSINESS MAJORS RUNNING BUSINESSES! I know it sounds like it should be better for a business major to control things...however they were prepped a primed to sit in a chair and rarely have done anything else. They don't actually know how the business works. These are the guys in college who didn't know how to turn on their computers and they are supposed to know what to do with IT or other fields they know nothing about. So instead jobs are shipped out and the ones that are kept are paid way under what they are worth.
 
Nokia said:
I agree with you there. Instead of paying people what they are worth, get some young adult in a foreign country and pay them 3.00 an hour.
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$3 an hour is what those guys wished they were making. I found out when jobs at my company gets outsourced to China, they replace our one worker (at $8/hr) with five or more workers, all of which do just one short task repeatedly (like turn one screw, then the next person turns the next....basically human machines).

So that said, those workers combined must be making WELL under $8/hour.
 
Nothing wrong with outsourcing. You all would do the same if you owned a business in this great economy.
 
XLeezardx said:
Nothing wrong with outsourcing. You all would do the same if you owned a business in this great economy.
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I never said there's anything wrong with the concept of outsourcing. If done legally and responsibly, outsourcing can be a great way to push globalization.

The reality of the situation is most big businesses outsource to get away from having to be responsible. Non-existent wages (a buck an hour is much better than starving, but come on), no insurance, no environmental concerns, no (or very little) labor laws.

It shouldn't be that way. Perhaps one day, these companies are going to get shot in the foot for shady business practices.
 
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