IT Certification Primer

Another good thing to add would be how much time/ money and eqipment are needed.

Hey Bob can you start the Certs Forum?
 
I signed up yesterday to take the CISSP exam. Hopefully someone will drop out of the Aug 29th testing date so I can get into it. If not, I'll be taking it in October.

So far, I've spent 560 bucks. 500 for the test itself, and 60 for ISC2's official CISSP study guide. The CISSP is pretty broad in what it covers, and I've been told to just go download as many governmental security procedures and best practices guides as I can find and read through them real well.

I'll definitely either post here or in a new thread when I end up taking it.
 
Everyone has left out the ceh cert.

certified ethical hacker.
 
Well, I went for nothing and took my CCNA, and I got a <boo> 775. </boo>

So, what I'd like to know, is, what should I definitely know COLD before I plink down my hard earned creds to take this puppy again.

I thought I knew Frame Relay and ISDN well, and for the most part they didn't ask those questions. They did throw a DDR troubleshooting scenario at me which I wasn't prepared for, and I think the ACLs killed my score as well.

I got a 100% in technology, an 86% in planning and development, a 45% in troubleshooting, and a 68% in implementation and operation...

I'll probably give it a go again in October. Any advice helpful, especially when it comes to study material.

Thanks in advance,
DVA
 
i just completed the weeklong (6 days, not 5) SANS security essentials track here in DC. i've got to say it was fantastic. there is a certification you can take which requires writing a paper, then taking 2 exams, but the course is not what i would call an exam bootcamp. the course is designed to teach you useful info. the cert is something you can aquire with that knowledge, but it is not a braindump type class like most of those week training sessions are. i cannot wait to go back for another track later, and highly recommend the SANS courses to anyone who gets a chance to take them.
 
Passed my fricken CISSP! There wasn't a single thought in my head that I had passed that test, I was 100% certain I had failed after I walked out of the room.
 
can anybody help indicate what are the equipments needed to setup a home test lab??
 
CISSP - a good general study guide is the CISSP prep guide by Krutz and Vines. If you understand all of the concepts in the book, you are good on the base of knowledge. Augment weak areas with other sources.

For the master FAQ on certs I recommend an organization with increasing levels of difficulty.

A+
Net+ then branch into vendor specific like Cisco or MS

Security+
then track to technical with GIAC/Sans

Policy/managerial ISC2
SCSP
CISSP
CISSP focus area certs
 
I'm taking a ccna and an a+ class, how difficult are these, could anyone give me a hint?
 
ccna is not hard class but since I took it over a year ago, its "use it or lose it".

I pretty much need to retake the class because I forgot most of it.

If I did get my CCNA right now, how good will that look on my resume to get a new job?
Cingular just bought my company out and I am not sure if they will keep my department.

My job title is Advanced Network Support and I have:

A+
Net+
MCP
Linux+

5 years working for AT&T Wireless Advanced Network Team for Wifi support and data access.

Do you think CCNA will help me find a better job from what I listed above?
 
Woot. Security+ this coming monday.

Question: as I mentioned before, I'm a college student. If I graduate with a BS (MS?) in CS or ISFM/IS, with the Security+, SSCP, CISSP, 2nd tier Cisco certifcations, and some GIAC certs, do you think I'd be able to make a substancial amount of cash out of the gate?

I'm thinking 60-75K with tha assortment. Sounds feasable?


EDIT: in reply to the above post about CCNA, I think it may give you a leg up on a Network Eng Jr Level type of job, which from what I hear is better than a support position.
 
With the way salaries are now, depending on your work history on top of education, it is possible to land something in that range if you market yourself correctly. Unfortunately, the industry right now is still able to pick from prime talent, even those who can fake their way through the game, and isn't paying as much anymore. I figure you could probably get at least 50 - 60k, which is still good for now. Good Luck with your exam and in future endeavors. Also, a lot of IT filtering is done by comparing work experience to education and certifications, so keep that on the back burner when applying to positions, and try to balance it out if possible.



-DVA
 
Certs and degrees don't get you money right out of school. They get you in the door. Experience gets the big pay checks.
 
Thanks. I'll definately keep that in mind. I'm planning to have an internship or other "real world" experience during any breaks I have in my education. My first one has been very successful.
 
enforcer17 said:
Certs and degrees don't get you money right out of school. They get you in the door. Experience gets the big pay checks.
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Not necessarily. I work with a few "textbook techs", with degrees and certs that make their resume look like alpahbet soup. Two of them have barely 1 year of real world experience and are making a bit over 50K... don't know how to do even basic desktop support functions, go figure that one out. Why they still have jobs is a surprise enough to me.

It depends on the market, how desperate they are for people, and how you stack up compared to the rest of the competition. Granted, in these times, one will be hired based on their E&E, and pay comes in time, but you may luck out.
 
I agree with what you said as I'm in the very same position.

I just graduated last May and am going to start a job as Desktop Support Analyst. My certs are listed below and I have one summer of similair work experience. All my other xp is from fooling around with my computers at home. The salary is 50K a year starting with compansation pay for being on call, which is about another $4K a year. So yes, it is possible to make "good" money right out of the gate.

What I was saying is that 60K-75K that Xaeos stated is kinda high for no experience. That kind of money would come as a more senior position.
 
I'm not sure if this makes much difference, but I was under the impression that Security based fields get paid well...very, very well. As for job titles I'd be looking for at entry level I think they'd be something like Auditor, Security Analyst etc... some sort of Information Security Professional. This is based off of projected salary lines from certain security related mailing lists - so that could be a factor. Kinda hard to pass up when they talk about $150,000 for CISSPs with 3 years exp :)

EDIT: If I'm lucky...very lucky, I'll end up with a TS/SCI clearence by the end of my collegiate career.
 
no entry level anything is going to earn $75K a year. i've got 5 years experience in network support, work now as an IT manager at a small office (30 people), and have my MCSE and MCDBA and i make ~$63K a year. i started at $25K a year in another field entirely fresh out of school.

everyone in college seems to think they have earned some right to make assloads of money. guess what, you haven't. you earned the right to move up and go far because you have a good education as a foundation. but you start at the bottom like everyone else. sure, there are exceptions, but don't fool yourself.

i have friends who i feel "fooled themselves." they weren't willing to make photocopies, crunch data, and do all the crap work. they felt entitled to better work and more pay. so they flip-flopped around. they didn't take jobs they felt were beneath them. and they've done nothing to build their resumes for the last 5 years. in the meantime i've paid my dues and am on my way up. other friends stuck out their first position out of college like me, and they too are moving up and making much better money. more importantly, they are doing more interesting work.

expect to make $40K a year. be happy when you get job offers even if they suck and you turn them down. don't take a job unless you feel it's good and can help get you experience. if all they want is someone to fetch coffee it's not going to help you in the long run. find the middle ground between not settling for a job that sucks, and not turning down everything while holding out for CIO of IBM.

this isn't supposed to sound bleak. and for all i know you could be the frickin valedictorian at MIT or something. expect good things for yourself. just don't expect them right after graduation. i just hate seeing people turning down perfectly good starting jobs just because they think they already learned everything there is to know in college. they didn't. i haven't. no one has.
 
HTML: 
Kinda hard to pass up when they talk about $150,000 for CISSPs with 3 years exp

Those are the few success stories. What you don't here about are the thousands of others equally or more qualified making half that, or not in a job at all.

$150,000 for three years xp sounds like a long shot to me. They'd have to be a natural genius and work their ass off for a pay check like that.

Like big daddy fatsacks said, don't expect too much out of school. And don't expect to land a big job right away. It takes time, and if you think your're better then the jobs offered and turn them down, you'll never get one.

This is all coming from my experience, as I said before, because I just graduated and have been offerend positions ranging from 25K to 60K. The 60K postion I got turned down because of lack of real work experience.
 
Wow, this has been an interesting read, glad I foudn thsi thread. I got my A+ a few years back, it was crazy easy. I wouldn't mind getting more, but feel a degree is much more feasible, at least this is what everyone tells me, and it makes sense. Unfortunately I am not sure I am ready to tackle a BS. For now I am thinking of getting a Associates degree in Microcomputing technology-networking technician track from Columbus State. And then maybe go to a better school in a few years to get a bachelors or whatever.

But school can only teach you so much, experience is obviously the best thing to have. I am considering taking a job doing tech support for Verizon DSL, just to get some experience. And to help see what I am really interested in. But right now I am thinking along the lines of Information Security, or whatever else it goes by and I also want to learn linux, which I am working on now.

So what is the best way to learn the security aspect. I mean what do you do, setup a tesbed and hackthe crap out of it, and just learn where all the holes and vulnerabilties are, then fix those? Any help would be great.
 
Honestly, I took A+, passed both tests and was proud of myself. Little did I know that you can't even get a job at Best Buy with A+.

As far as starting salary in the IT field all depends on location. I am in Northern NY, and they are just starting to develop a need for IT. There are listings looking for MCSE's which pay $35-$40 a year. If you go South, or to the Southwest where there is a bigger demand, you could probably make double that.
 
PawNtheSandman said:
Honestly, I took A+, passed both tests and was proud of myself. Little did I know that you can't even get a job at Best Buy with A+.

As far as starting salary in the IT field all depends on location. I am in Northern NY, and they are just starting to develop a need for IT. There are listings looking for MCSE's which pay $35-$40 a year. If you go South, or to the Southwest where there is a bigger demand, you could probably make double that.
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Damn.....

Best Buy and CompUSA called me within a week (I got my A+ in July) I think they were just BSing you, what did they tell you? I almost got hired before I had my A+ but they didnt offer me enough. Even after my A+ I turned down their offer.

I recently got hired as an Entry Level Tech at a non profit org. I am currently finishing my BS in IT with 30 creds remaining. I only have about 1 year of true professional experience, my A+ cert and about 4 years of personal/home experience. To me it was my interview that got me the job which consisted of a 4 person interview asking specific questions about general Pc and Network issues- no sweat. I was offered 35K and Im in the DC metropolitan area.

Seems to me like its really all based on the company, the region youre in and how skilled you are in your actual profession and pesonal interaction with people.

my .02
 
PawNtheSandman said:
Honestly, I took A+, passed both tests and was proud of myself. Little did I know that you can't even get a job at Best Buy with A+.
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LMAO!!!

I feel bad for you if they didn't hire you and relieved in the same token. It's not worth the bs to go through for some entry-level experience.

I worked there about 3 years ago and no one I worked with had A+, no A+ techs till I got hired. Then they actually got 4 techs that had A+, and 2 of them didn't know anything, and the 2 good ones quit/got terminated.

After a year I got promoted and was the only A+ certified Tech Lead in the district. Someone pulled your leg on that one bro. You must either live in a tech-talent saturated area, or they weren't willing to pay more than $9/hr. Then again, things may have changed since the GeekSquad took over the tech side of BB so I'm not sure anymore. They probably still have morons who think they are the alpha/omega of all things computer related and can't figure out basic things.

-DVA
 
so ive got my a+, net+, and all but 1 test for my mcsa, u guys think I should get it? In all honesty, I don't have much time right now working 40hrs per week and I start college in less than a month. I'm going to be working 20hrs a week then too.
 
I'll tell you what, experiacne really does pay. I'm working on my 3rd year exp. as Network Support (guess you can call it). I do what any CCNA, CCDA or CCNP would do daily. I'm currently taking the Cisco Academy class as a degree requirement. I actually plan on taking it later this winter. I've learned more in my experiance than taking the CCNA course.

Also from experiance i can tell you that just reading the exam books don't generally help too much, a co-worker of mine, also younger than me, took his CCNA without ever touching a peice of cisco equipment and failed [H]ardcore. A 620 isn't very good ;)


A+ is kinda a so-so cert to me, good to have, but isn't really going to get you anywhere. This one can easily be attained by reading the book. I never took mine, its not going to get me any more money and really pointless IMHO. Its sad when people think highly of a A+ cert and guys at work with them still ask me questions because they doin't have a clue. ;)
 
WesM63 said:
Also from experiance i can tell you that just reading the exam books don't generally help too much, a co-worker of mine, also younger than me, took his CCNA without ever touching a peice of cisco equipment and failed [H]ardcore. A 620 isn't very good ;)
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I agree 100%, look at it this way to make it clearer. Say your read a few books about boxing/ marshal arts would you step into a ring? I hope you say no. Otherwise try it, what do you have to loose? (if you do choose this option please post some before and after photos)

Apart from the fact that you will never understand the hardware/software unless you actually work with it. The way we all learn is by repetition. Doing the same things over and over and over and over again, yes its boring but that’s how you learn and retain information, where as you only read a book once or twice. Another thing is skipping or rushing the case studies, yes you may know how to do it (should do, as you have just read about it), but try going back to them in 6 –12 months time. Also I have found that simulators are nothing like the real thing (remember sex education?). They don’t always behave right and a lot of them hold your hand too much, it think most simulators are based too much in ‘a perfect world scenario’ if that was true then IT support would simply not exist.

Just my take on the subject
 
BobSutan said:
The big ones I'd like to see covered are

MCP
MCSA
MCSE
CCNA
CCIE
A+
Network+
Security+
CISSP

Any others that are popular that I missed?
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Those are the Major's, Plus there is the CCNA,CCNP
 
-(Xyphox)- said:
Those are the Major's, Plus there is the CCNA,CCNP
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Actually, CCNA is already in the original list, so only CCNP was missing actually.
 
I'm currently working on getting my a+ and ccna from a tech school, I'm only a junior in hs, hope all goes well :D
 
Does anyone know if there are any SINGLE DAY crash courses in the NYC area? I self studied, but lack of hands on equipment made me choke pretty bad on the simulator questions.

Id love to find a place that has like a one day crash course along with a lab setup where I could go perhaps a week prior to the test.
 
soulax said:
Does anyone know if there are any SINGLE DAY crash courses in the NYC area? I self studied, but lack of hands on equipment made me choke pretty bad on the simulator questions.

Id love to find a place that has like a one day crash course along with a lab setup where I could go perhaps a week prior to the test.
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You'd be better off spending the money on some cheap 2500 series and 1900 series equip. A good boot camp 1-3 day style can cost around 5-10k.

A set of 3 routers and 2 switches on EBAY can be had for like $500 - 1500 shipped. And you'd have a lab to play with afterwards.

Don't feel bad, I choked hardcore on my test too. OSPF friggin kills me.
 
I feel bad after reading this...

:(

Nah, I work as Technical Support for a Consulting Firm, I only make 8 bucks a hr, which comes out to like 15,000 a year, but they are willing to pay for any cert tests and raise me for each I pass.

I've been working with pc's in general since 95/96, and I know my stuff pretty well. I love my job tho, I get to work in the server room (just got my clearence) and help with all the hardware related issues, I suppose up is the only way to go. I went to college for 2 years and 2 certificates (Digital electronics technology and Advanced Digital Electronics technology, with Cisco classes included)

Anybody else work Tech support? We handle the entire helpdesk for a multi million dollar Construction Company called Orco in Cali (We are based in Arkansas).
 
I feel lucky for the position I got. I had been working with computers for about 9 years (Im 19) and just graduated high school last may. For the past 4 years I had been working at a hotel working the front desk.. and about a year ago started doing Audit.

Well, I got my A+, and Net+ and then applied at the ** here in Arizona and got a call 8 hours after I submitted my resume. 4 days later I was starting.

The reason I took this job was
1) it pays a lot more than the hotel I worked at
2) In 6 - 8 months I have a real shot at management.

There are so many people that work here, and the company is expanding so fast they are constantly looking for management positions. That is what you guys need to understand. Unless you know someone, 95%+ of you younger guys (a lot like me) are going to start out doing grunt work and entry level support... somewhat like me.

However, you need to find something that you have a real shot at moving up quickly. Sure, your job can be great now.. but are you going anywhere? Is there is no possiability of advancement you should look for a place where there is. Thats how you start making the big bucks.
 
This summer I plan on some total immersion and hopefully by September be able to take the RHCT and pass with flying colors.

Also, I plan on taking 70-270 and 70-290 of the MS exams (XP and managing a 2003 environment).

Anyone got any tips on these 2 MS exams?
 
Skarekr0w said:
I feel bad after reading this...

:(

Nah, I work as Technical Support for a Consulting Firm, I only make 8 bucks a hr, which comes out to like 15,000 a year, but they are willing to pay for any cert tests and raise me for each I pass.

I've been working with pc's in general since 95/96, and I know my stuff pretty well. I love my job tho, I get to work in the server room (just got my clearence) and help with all the hardware related issues, I suppose up is the only way to go. I went to college for 2 years and 2 certificates (Digital electronics technology and Advanced Digital Electronics technology, with Cisco classes included)

Anybody else work Tech support? We handle the entire helpdesk for a multi million dollar Construction Company called Orco in Cali (We are based in Arkansas).
Click to expand...

Just a update, moved up to a new position today, Hardware Specialist and should be moving to Assitant Network Admin this summer.

1.50 raise, not great, not bad. Plus, they have just ordered over 800 bucks worth of training materials for the Network Admin and I to study to go get some certs.

Plan to go ahead and get a MCP and then work on the MCSE. I think I might go ahead and take the A+ just to get it out of the way.
 
I recently passed the CIT (fourth test of the CCNP) making me CCNP certified. I took it as a college class and had the benefit of working with an extremely advanced hands on lab setup. For anyone looking to study for thier CCN* I highly suggest you head over to eBay and try and pickup and old cisco router to muck around with. I am sure you can get some good deals. Some people say to use a router simulator, I feel that the simulators are way to restrictive with what you can and cannot do. Not to mention the fact that real router do, and will mess up without user interaction. So if you are seirous about learning the CCN* material, and are not in it so you can attach some acronym to your name, spring for an old cisco router, hook it up, and figure it out.

Along with extensive hands on work, I read through the whole Cisco Press CCNP study guide. When you have a real router to muck around on, you can try out some of the labs and all the commands that are explained in the text. If you really want to setup a strong test network, and have enough cash, get four routers. Most of the labs in the CCNP Cisco Press books, and the CCNA ones I think, use four router configurations. Hell, I would even say that one router isnt enough! With only one router you can't try out routing, PPP encapsulation, framerelay, etc etc.

So if you want a test bed that will let you actually setup a network, and actually see how two routers communicate, get two cisco routers from eBay, a serial cable to connect them (DTE/DCE) and a console cable (you need a serial port or a USB-Serial adapter) and fire 'em up try out routing, and prosper. When you are done, sell them back on eBay.
 
yea i really lucked out. All i have is A+ with about 7 years of experience, and got hired by a local design firm as their entry level help desk for end users. I get to work directly one on one with the employees and help them out, which offers a great satisfaction level for me seeing how grateful they are when i solve their problems. They were looking for an entry level guy because the main IT man is looking to retire in about 10 years, and they'd like to have somebody to groom into his position. By then we should be around 70-100 employees running multiple terra servers in a domain enviroment and hopefully i'll have it all to myself, office and everything :)

Right now im taking network+, and probably mcp and some linux stuff after that. Dont really know what else to waste money on if i intend on staying with them forever, since the level of work by then will not be on par with the skills of MSCE nor will the pay likely be (although the pay is more than satisfactory right now). Kinda scary in one sense, since its my first real tech job, do i want it to be my last? Then again, the rewards are far too great to pass up, dont look a gift horse sort of thing..
 
Right now im working on my mcse (was gonna do the mcsa but shit happened in my life). ive taken 2 tests so far, and im gonna take my 3rd in prolly 2-3 weeks and im extremely unimpressed w/ microsoft. theyre exams are so damn easy its ridiculous. i think some of it has to do w/ the modularity of windows. if u can do something in 9x, u can pretty much do it in xp. i know theyre supposed to be switching to be performance based exams soon, but i dont think they can move soon enough.

thats the one thing i was impressed with concerning ciscos test, they were fuckin hard. u had to EARN those 4 letters. hopefully things will change and ms test will get harder. they should make at least half of it performanced based imho, so it could weed out the dumpers and it wont be the laughing stock of all certs.

now that im done ranting, to those going for certs go for the "entry levels" ones 1st, ie a+, ccna, mcp. that'll get ur foot in the door in the sense having some sort of shot to get an interview. id skip the server+/network+ because i havent seen any position that required that. they only thing its good for is skipping a mcsa test (which is done since u should be taking the exams to learn, not just to get the cert). if u have no exp (like i did) just make show u know ur shit. if ur a helpdesk techie, make sure u know everything about hardware that u can possibly know. if ur a network support guy, learn about tcp/ip, ipx/spx, packets, frames, the osi model everything. let ur knowledge make up for ur lack of exp. that helped me get my internship at where im at right now. ive been there 5 months and im going to be going from the intern/lackie to admin over active directory after the novell migration is complete.

i had no real exp, didnt have a degree, and a few minor certs (a+, ccna, mcp), but i made sure that my assets (my knowledge and love for tech) were a blinding light. hard work never killed anyone, and to make it u gotta work hard.

good luck to everyone
 
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