Jumping into Watercooling for the first time... pretty psyched out!

NewShockerGuy

NewShockerGuy

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Jan 24, 2002
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I am not new to building computers. Do one every year. I've always modded them.etc. But now I really want to do water cooling, and what specifically got me intriged was this thread:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1256461

Image_0533.jpg


Specifically that picture is why I want to do it!


So my biggest questions are these. I've read many things regarding leaks, and I am not scared of that. My questions is getting stuff to work. I've read the sticky above and that was helpful somewhat but since this would be my first build via water cooling I am a little over whelmed with the parts needed.

I am probably going to order parts through performance-pcs.com since I shop a lot with them for other modding stuff... Needless to say there are MANY things like blocks, resovoirs.etc.

I really like the tubing above in the picture for the fact that it screws on, rather than a push barb.

I already ordered my v350 case but not the water cooling parts.

This is NOT going to be a gaming rig at all. More of less internet use and file storage..lol So I guess the only things I am concern about would be the CPU block? Is that correct or would I need other blocks?

I also have some questions on the radiator. Since the fans are cooling the radiator the heat has to go somewhere.. wouldn't eventually the radiator put the heat back into the chasis of the computer thus just making it hotter? Or am I thinking about this the wrong way... IE: water tubes going to the radiator and the fans blowing air through it to cool, but the air would eventually get the same temp as the liquid used to disapate the heat generated from the CPU..

Lastly is water cooling that much quieter than fans? Reason I ask is all of my lian li's are loud... I have very silent 120mm fans in all and you can still hear them, I always heard water cooling is more quite but it brings up the question that I will have two 120mm fans cooling the radiator... so in theory it would be not quiet?

Looking very forward to jumping in to the water cooling world! Actually pretty stoked!

Thanks again,
-Nigel
 
Posting one more:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=59_200

I only need a two 120mm fan rad but looking at that site why were there so many and why do they range in price?

Like the difference between the:
Black Ice Pro II Compact High Performance Radiator - Black = $35
Black Ice Xtreme 2 High Performance Radiator - Black = $59


They look identical to me... this is proving harder than expected because I don't mind spending money as long as they are good parts..etc. I just am over whelmed with all the different rads..lol

Thanks again,
-Nigel
 
Yeah, I probably would just do the CPU block. I mean, I personally wouldn't mind spending an extra $60-$80 for a full coverage waterblock for my video card to have one less fan in my case, but to each their own.

With your radiator question, the trick is the same with air-cooling. You have to keep a steady flow of air going through the case. For example, I'm going to mount my radiator the the bottom of my case having it suck cool air through the bottom and upword into my computer. At the top, I'll have another fan blowing hot air out, therefor keep a steady airflow going and keeping overall chassis temps down.

For me, watercooling will be much much less noisy. I used to run 4 fans in my case along with the heatsink fan going, and I'm talking 35-50db fans.... ugh. Now I'll be running 4 (3 on the rad, one for the top) Yate loons at 27db each. Should be much, much better.

And lastly, with buying the stuff, you have to look at the performance of it. Like for example, the Pro II is rated for dissapating 4000 BTU per hour, while the Xtreme 2 is rated for 6200 BTU per hour. So hence is why the Xtreme 2 is a higher price.

Personally, if you're looking for a good cookie cutter watercooling mold, go with a D Tek FuZion, a Swiftech MCP655 waterpump, and a Swiftech MCR220 radiator. All of those are highly reccomended by anyone here.
 
Awesome! Didn't even realize the BTU thing.. now that makes sense!!

Thanks much,

I have another question (probably is silly to all) When looking at external resovoirs I noticed that most of them have a longer tube in them and then a short tube... What does that mean IE:

---------------------------------
========= (Longer tube)
=== (shorter tube)
---------------------------------

Hope that illustrates what I mean. But what and why would there be two different sizes? Are those also specific to how they are mounted? IE: Do they always have to be mounted veritcal? Or can it be mounted horizontal?

Thanks again,
-Nigel
 
Good question...... Well, my thinking is, if you have the tubes the same length, think about it when you have your system running. One tube will be dumping water in while the other one is sucking water in (obviously). If you have them both the same length, you're going to lose some flow due to turbulance within the system. Water and turbulance moving around in a reservoir is generally not a good thing, as it can create air bubbles that will travel through the system and then you'll lose cooling power.

If you have one longer and one shorter, the longer one will be the one getting water from the bottom of the reservoir going to the pump while the shorter one will be the water dumping back in after cooling. Less turbulance and less chance of air bubbles being created within the system.

With those kind, you def want to mount them vertically. I have yet to see one not.
 
I don't neccssarily need a cookie cutter water cooling, as I'd like to piece together parts.

Another big question is the CPU water blocks. This would be for a socket 775.

I've come across like 5 that really seem nice.

1. EK-Supreme Universal Premium High Performance Water Block - Acetal
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=59_199&products_id=22873

2. Alphacool NexXxoS HP Pro Socket 775
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=59_199&products_id=23312

3. Alphacool NexXxoS X2 Bold Highflow Socket 775
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=59_199&products_id=23310

4. Danger Den MC-TDX for Intel 775 CPU/Boards
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=59_199&products_id=22739

I like this one the best..
5. Enzotech Sapphire CPU Water Block with "Micro-Pin Design
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=59_199&products_id=22690


Best Performer?
6. Fluid XP+ Vortex XP™ Shadow CPU Water Block
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=59_199&products_id=21189


So that is just the MANY water blocks that stick out to me... but to me I don't know enough to know which one really is better?..etc?

Thanks,
-Nigel
 
EK Supreme / Dtek Fuzion / Apogee GTX are the 3 main ones people choose on here....

on a smaller rig i just use a apogee drive by swiftech to save space, apogee cpu block and pump all in one.
 
I'll give you the basic "best" loop... balancing performance and price.

Dtek Fuzion CPU block.
MCR 220, or 320. (Can be substituted for a Black Ice Pro II or III).
MCP655 / DD D5 pump.
Masterkleer 7/16" tubing (for your 1/2" barbs, makes for a good seal)
2/3 yate loon fans.

If you're adding a GPU into the loop, which I doubt you are, you usually want an EK fullcover block.

This is NOT going to be a gaming rig at all. More of less internet use and file storage..lol So I guess the only things I am concern about would be the CPU block? Is that correct or would I need other blocks?

Yes, basically... However, the GPU is often *very* loud in computers, so a GPU block might be in order as well.

I also have some questions on the radiator. Since the fans are cooling the radiator the heat has to go somewhere.. wouldn't eventually the radiator put the heat back into the chasis of the computer thus just making it hotter? Or am I thinking about this the wrong way... IE: water tubes going to the radiator and the fans blowing air through it to cool, but the air would eventually get the same temp as the liquid used to disapate the heat generated from the CPU..

You want the radiator heat to be exhausted outside the case... Therefore, the radiator needs to be mounted in in a way that it exhausts outside the case, or there is sufficient other fannage to take the warm air out.

Lastly is water cooling that much quieter than fans? Reason I ask is all of my lian li's are loud... I have very silent 120mm fans in all and you can still hear them, I always heard water cooling is more quite but it brings up the question that I will have two 120mm fans cooling the radiator... so in theory it would be not quiet?

Well, if you take your chipset fan, GPU fan, and CPU fans out, and replace them with 3/4 yate loons at 7v, you'll be cool, AND quite.
Click to expand...
 
Arcygenical said:
I'll give you the basic "best" loop... balancing performance and price.

Dtek Fuzion CPU block.
MCR 220, or 320. (Can be substituted for a Black Ice Pro II or III).
MCP655 / DD D5 pump.
Masterkleer 7/16" tubing (for your 1/2" barbs, makes for a good seal)
2/3 yate loon fans.

If you're adding a GPU into the loop, which I doubt you are, you usually want an EK fullcover block.
Click to expand...

Thanks much!

Quick question for the tubing I am not seeing 7/16" rather I am seeing 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2".

I am not sure if I want to go with 1/2" because it looks too big from pictures I have seen.

The picture I post above do you by chance know the size by looking at it?
I wish I had these hoses here with me so that I could know for sure which size would be best. as the v350 doesn't have too much room for the cube..

Another question on barbs, I like the ones posted in the picture above, I found out these are called compression fittings. Are these not good to use? The look nicer to me than the barb fittings..

Last question on the CPU block, do they ALL come with the hardware to mount them on the board or is this another thing that I have to look at as far as mounting plates, screws..etc.

Thanks again,
-Nigel
 
Are there any disadvantages of going this route:

Koolance RP-1000BK 1kW Series 5.25in Drive Bay System
xoxide_1993_109757367


That seems nice as it's the resovoair and the pump built into a 5 1/4" bay... kinda pricey but that definitely seems like it would save lots of space?

-Nigel
 
Well i will tell you my story on bay rezes, me being hard headed and not following the advice of some of the guys on here, i bought on of the DD bay rezes and it is a pain to fill and really do anything with. So needless to say i switched so a tube style, but the swiftech microrez is really good.
 
I'll tell you what I did, but you'll need to drill a couple of holes.

CPU Block: Apogee GTX
Tubes: really cheap FrozenCPU clear tubing 3/8" ID
Pump: Swiftech MCP 355......very small, compact pump that puts out a bunch of flow, and is quiet as a mouse. Barely visible if mounted correctly.
RAD: Swiftech Dual 120mm
Fans: YateLoon medium flow
Res: Swiftech MicroRes.
RadBox to mount the rediator outside in the back.....keeps heat out of the case.

I did this stuff because it was pretty cheap and cools very well. The MicroRes I mounted on the side of the case in front where I can actually access it through removal of a bay cover.

This setup allows for expansion and was pretty easy to do. Got everything from Performance except the tubing. No special reason, I actually think I forgot to order it the first time and Frozen gets my stuff to me in 1 day due to proximity.
 
Thanks guys.

I won't go with a bay res then. Another question, if I go with a tube style res. are they able to be mounted any which way? The reason I am thinking this is in the v350 there isn't much room so mouting a tube vertical is going to be very hard unless I mount it externally which I don't want to do yet...

I have been looking through all 150 pages of water cooled pictures and lian li gallery and this struck me.

IMG_0200-1.jpg


I notice he has a fill hole. Which is something that I have seen on frozen's site and thougt about getting, but I don't notice a reservoir on his rig... (maybe it's the angle) If you have a fill tube/hole is there no need for a reservoir? And my next qestion since the fill tube that I have seen in the gallery usually has some air in it how does it not get sucked into the pump? I also notice he has a T-fitting. What is the point of that right after the pump. I've seen some rigs with them and some with none.

I am just confused on how all this connects because everyone seems to be doing it different via the galleries...

From what I want I think it's pretty basic compared to what most of all you have done with yours. In that I only want to do my CPU, no GPU, no video card, no memory... just starting out slow and baby steps for my first one :)

But this is what I know I would need.
CPU block
Radiator.
Pump
Reservoir
tubes, and fittings
----
Possibly a fill hole/tube? (but how does this tie in to the setup with tubes..etc.)

Do you want the pump sucking the fluid through or pushing it through? In my mind I would think it would be sucked through as there would be less pressure/bubbles created? Am I correct in this thought?
Lastly how do you know the correct order to put things?
Does the Pump go first then the reservoir, then through the radiator then cpu block..etc

Sorry for all the questions I just want to make sure I have everything correct before I bite the bullet and start ordering everything only to find out I missed a key step..etc.

This is great though, in the last two days I've learned so much with this!

Thanks again,
-Nigel
 
If you go with the Swiftech MicroRes, you don't need a fillport/t-line, it's got a fill hole on the top. For the pump, you want the inlet to come from your res, with the res at a higher point than your pump; from there, the outlet of your pump can go to whatever block you want first. For pics my first watercooling rig (just finished last weekend) check out my build log at http://gallery.entr0py.net/main.php?g2_itemId=25
 
lol.

Liquid cool your CPU, push it to 4Ghz so you can get mozilla running in less then .05 secs!

but seriously, that picture is epic. Must be a damn fine camera.
 
I notice he has a fill hole. Which is something that I have seen on frozen's site and thougt about getting, but I don't notice a reservoir on his rig... (maybe it's the angle) If you have a fill tube/hole is there no need for a reservoir? And my next qestion since the fill tube that I have seen in the gallery usually has some air in it how does it not get sucked into the pump? I also notice he has a T-fitting. What is the point of that right after the pump. I've seen some rigs with them and some with none.

A Tline can be used instead of a reservoir. It's used only to fill the loop. The top of the T fitting connects to that fillport. It doesn't have to be right after the pump, but it needs to be at either the lowest, or highest, point in the loop, and both these positions have their advantage. The lowest means quicker bleeding of air, but slower filling, the highest means quicker filling, but possibly slower bleeding.

From what I want I think it's pretty basic compared to what most of all you have done with yours. In that I only want to do my CPU, no GPU, no video card, no memory... just starting out slow and baby steps for my first one :)

But this is what I know I would need.
CPU block
Radiator.
Pump
Reservoir
tubes, and fittings
----
Possibly a fill hole/tube? (but how does this tie in to the setup with tubes..etc.)

Yes. You can use either a Tline, or a reservior, or both. You fill most Reserviors directly, from their own fillport. IF you're using a Tline, you can either buy a brass cap for about 1$ (local hardware store) or a nice fillport.

Do you want the pump sucking the fluid through or pushing it through? In my mind I would think it would be sucked through as there would be less pressure/bubbles created? Am I correct in this thought?

It's a closed loop, the pump sucks and pushes equally.

Lastly how do you know the correct order to put things?

The order doesn't really matter at all. It's just best to use the least amount of tubing, and make your Tline/res at the top/bottom of the loop.

Does the Pump go first then the reservoir, then through the radiator then cpu block..etc

It's normally: Reservoir > Pump > CPU > GPU > whateverelse > Radiator > Reservoir (return).
Click to expand...

Answered in quote.

Since you have proper English skills (;)), I have no trouble with you adding me on MSN, my address is in my profile. I can answer any of your questions as you have them, if you wish.

Cheers.
 
XcaliberZ said:
If you go with the Swiftech MicroRes, you don't need a fillport/t-line, it's got a fill hole on the top. For the pump, you want the inlet to come from your res, with the res at a higher point than your pump; from there, the outlet of your pump can go to whatever block you want first. For pics my first watercooling rig (just finished last weekend) check out my build log at http://gallery.entr0py.net/main.php?g2_itemId=25
Click to expand...


Nice work log!!

Question on your mini res, can that be mounted in any position or does it have to be vertical?

General question.
How do I know by looking at resoviors how they have to be mounted? IE Vertical only or can lay them on their sides..etc


Could I ask you for a HUGE favor?
main.php


That is a pretty clear picture on everything and I take it the rad is right up front. For the tubing starting with the pump how is the water flowing... IE: The tube on the left side of the pump going into the bottom port of the res is that pushing water in. And the tube that is ontop of the pump sucking water down? (Or if ya wanted to paint arrows for the water flow.. would be sweet.. :-p)


So the setups are called "loops"

Closed loop=pump and res in one or a fully submerged pump?


Arcygenical:

Thank you! I don't have msn messenger though..doh! :-(

"Does the Pump go first then the reservoir, then through the radiator then cpu block..etc"

It's normally: Reservoir > Pump > CPU > GPU > whateverelse > Radiator > Reservoir (return).

When you mean you should have your t-line or res at the top or bottom of the loop. do you mean "physically" or just in the order like how you posted above?

Is it recommend to have a fillport towards the bottom of the chasis to use as a drain plug?

I think I am understanding the fact how it connects.

Is it recommended to have the res completely filled?

I really think it would be neat to have a fill port on the top of the computer but have it fill into a resovoir, I don't like the look of a t-connector but I'm still not understanding if you have a t-connector and there is air in the fill tube how the pump doesn't suck that air through the system?

Thanks again,
-Nigel
 
Check your PMs.

When you mean you should have your t-line or res at the top or bottom of the loop. do you mean "physically" or just in the order like how you posted above? Physically at the top or the bottom, yes. Air is lighter than water, so it will rise to the top of the loop, or get snagged in the Tline and rise to the fillport.

Is it recommend to have a fillport towards the bottom of the chasis to use as a drain plug? I actually put my fillport on the bottom. That way, I turn my system upside down to fill, or keep it right-side up (and position it over the sink) to drain.

Is it recommended to have the res completely filled? yes, it really is... But it's not essential.

I really think it would be neat to have a fill port on the top of the computer but have it fill into a resovoir, I don't like the look of a t-connector but I'm still not understanding if you have a t-connector and there is air in the fill tube how the pump doesn't suck that air through the system? That's just the beauty of a closed loop system... Only the path between the barbs has any real forces acting on it. For example, if you have a huge tube-res, and it's directly in the middle of the case, but it's only 10% full, air doesn't get sucked into the loop, as long as the water-line is above the barbs. Nifty huh.
Click to expand...
 
Yup, that micro res is meant to be put vertically, as the filling port is at the top; with regards to the 2 barbs, the top one is the designated inlet, bottom is the outlet. I had it mounted like that w/ a ziptie during leak testing, but if you look in later pictures, I mounted it to the back of the case. Basically, the left port on the pump is the inlet, and the top going to the cpu block is the outlet. It goes Res -> pump -> cpu -> gpu -> radiator -> res.

Good luck!
 
Awesome!

Now I understand the flow! w00t w00t!

That is still cool that as long as the water doesn't go below the barbs it won't suck air in... That's neat!

I do have a couple questions on parts now:

I REALLY REALLY like the look of Alqua Computers Aqua Tube:
aquabay4ks.jpg


Problem is I can't find them in the US, other than a site in WA.

Also looks identical to the Innovatek's Fass-o-Matic Reservoir.

Do vendors here not sell their products?
I did see something very similar called AlphaCool:
AUS-POM-BK_01.jpg

AUS-POM-BK_03.jpg


Why does that have three holes on the top and on the bottom? Something like that looks nice because I take it I would have the "in" for fluid, "out" for fluid and then use the third hole to attach a fill point? But then that leaves three other holes open?

Thanks again,
-Nigel
 
NewShockerGuy said:
Why does that have three holes on the top and on the bottom? Something like that looks nice because I take it I would have the "in" for fluid, "out" for fluid and then use the third hole to attach a fill point? But then that leaves three other holes open?
Click to expand...

It has those multiple holes for various set ups. In my case i use a tube rez with 4 holes, i use one to fill and drain my system, 2 to pull water into the system, and the last one as the return point the rez.
 
Success!! Found a US person that sells it.

http://www.sharkacomputers.com/reservoirs.html

w00t w00t.



azuros:

So then it's possible to have a drain tube going from the hole that isn't used (since perhaps one hole will have the led plug, and the other two are for in/out liquid)to have a tube hooked to the bottom with a fill port to drain it? But wouldn't this cause a problem haveing a tube from the res going down to the bottom of the chasis?

Thanks,
-Nigel
 
The rez you are referring to is a removable cylinder so you could mount your drain hose on the top and just rotate the rez when you need to drain it. i dont see that as being a huge issue, tbh with a small loop like you are looking at, save the money and do a T line. it is way easier to maintain.
 
Now I have a question on tubing sizes?

The pump I want to get is the Aqua Computer Aqua Pump. It doesn't come with fittings but it's in British Standard Pipe (BSP threads) so I don't know what to get.

I thought I wanted to run 3/8th tubing because the diameter is good but now I see that the outer diameter is 5/8 which seems HUGE To me?

http://www.sharkacomputers.com/fifor3idtu.html

I don't know what fittings to get now..lol

-Nigel
 
If you are looking into AquaComputer stuff Sharkacomputers is about the only place to get it in the US. Be prepared to spend a hefty premium for the "bling bling" though. AquaComputer stuff generally performs on par or worse than most typical water cooling setups but that shouldn't matter with your intended usage of the machine.

Also the Aquastream pump might be a poor choice for you since you are going the SFF route. It is larger than other pumps such as the Laing DDC (probably the best choice for mix of power and size... it is more powerful and smaller than the Aquastream....cheaper too), or the Dtek dB-1 (smallest, tied for quietest, cheapest, but weakest of the three mentioned). The Aquastream pump has awesome integration options with aquasuite, very quiet and reliable operation, but it is large and expensive.
 
Thank you for the insight!

That actually kinda worries me that it performs worse than other stuff... I just really like how the resevoir looks and think I could incorporate it on the top of the v350... but I could be wrong??? I am just thinking of all the different possibilites.

What worries me the most is the tubing and fittings... as I don't know which to get because all the tubing I am seeing has different ID/OD and it doesn't seem to be consistant.. IE: some go in MM while other say 3/8" ID and 1/2"OD Then 3/8" ID and 3/4" OD.

I don't know what to get. I know I want compression fittings.

I keep reading about high flow and low flow.. how do you know what you have or what you are building?

-Nigel
 
Well get that rez and look at getting like a swiftech 655 pump or lian li d5 (same thing) it is a great pump quiet and pushes a good amount of water.
 
azuros said:
Well get that rez and look at getting like a swiftech 655 pump or lian li d5 (same thing) it is a great pump quiet and pushes a good amount of water.
Click to expand...

NO! The 655 / D5 is a horrible pump for a SFF case. The Laing DDC / Swiftech MCP355 (same pump) is a much better choice.
 
Erasmus354 said:
NO! The 655 / D5 is a horrible pump for a SFF case. The Laing DDC / Swiftech MCP355 (same pump) is a much better choice.
Click to expand...

That is a tiny pump! (Swifttech)... but how loud is it?
Is that good that the barbs are 3/4"... seems like it might be a problem if I use that and the Aqua Computer Res since that's 8mm...

-Nigel
 
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