Just ordered the Dell UltraSharp 2209WA

it can't be denied some 2209aw have high input lag
multiple reputable sites have tested over 1 frame

i'd buy one but i don't wanna play dell's panel/electronics-lottery
 
It sure can be denied. Most "reputable" sites don't know how to test lag properly, especially Digital Versus, but even they show an average of less than one frame for this monitor, so which sites are you talking about?

There is no lottery for this model. You are basing your decision on inaccurate information. That's why I'm tired of people making shit up.
 
dowant120hz said:
it can't be denied some 2209aw have high input lag
multiple reputable sites have tested over 1 frame

i'd buy one but i don't wanna play dell's panel/electronics-lottery
Click to expand...

Do you really consider that to be high? While I seriously doubt that this display has no lag at all, I also doubt that you or anyone else can detect it during game play. To put things in better prospective, Human reaction time is over 200ms with a varience of at least 30ms or 2 frames of lag.

Here try it for your self: http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/allresults.php?period=1&expert=on

If ToastyX is saying that he is sick of people claiming that IPS panels have too much lag then I agree with him. Anything under 2 frames is negligable. You can show it in a test, but you will not be effected by it in game play.

The point that I was actually trying to make is that H/W revisions almost never change input lag regardless of the actual value. The only exception I know of was the Dell 2408wfp and that was a very special case, the firmware was available to the public so it could be used on earlier models. I am not sure if Dell really ment for that to happen, but it did.

Dave
 
ToastyX said:
It sure can be denied. Most "reputable" sites don't know how to test lag properly, especially Digital Versus, but even they show an average of less than one frame for this monitor, so which sites are you talking about?

There is no lottery for this model. You are basing your decision on inaccurate information. That's why I'm tired of people making shit up.
Click to expand...
apart from prad.de this site also shows over 2 frames of input lag: http://www.erodov.com/forums/dell-ultrasharp-2209wa-review/18048-page12.html
digitalversus also shows slightly over 1 frame of input lag
 
daveswantek said:
Do you really consider that to be high? While I seriously doubt that this display has no lag at all, I also doubt that you or anyone else can detect it during game play. To put things in better prospective, Human reaction time is over 200ms with a varience of at least 30ms or 2 frames of lag.
...
Click to expand...
i already notice 1 frame of input lag
and i already find that rather laggy (but still usable)
anything higher is no-go for me

the test you posted seems like eye-to-hand reaction time to unforeseeable events
i can't get below 100ms there
but stuff like moving the mouse is a foreseeable event and therefore very different
a few ms already noticeable

i've also heard about color shifts(!) on the sides of the 2209wa reading the amazon user reviews
all making panel lottery very likely
 
dowant120hz said:
i already notice 1 frame of input lag
and i already find that rather laggy (but still usable)
anything higher is no-go for me

the test you posted seems like eye-to-hand reaction time to unforeseeable events
i can't get below 100ms there
but stuff like moving the mouse is a foreseeable event and therefore very different
a few ms already noticeable

i've also heard about color shifts(!) on the sides of the 2209wa reading the amazon user reviews
all making panel lottery very likely
Click to expand...

Oh; so you don't actually have one then. I do and I will go with what Toasty said, "Stop making shit up".
 
daveswantek said:
Oh; so you don't actually have one then. I do and I will go with what Toasty said, "Stop making shit up".
Click to expand...
i didn't say your 2209wa has high input lag
i said some 2209wa have

the crt comparison pictures are also proof enough
the reviewers have no reason to fake them
 
daveswantek said:
Do you really consider that to be high? While I seriously doubt that this display has no lag at all, I also doubt that you or anyone else can detect it during game play. To put things in better prospective, Human reaction time is over 200ms with a varience of at least 30ms or 2 frames of lag.
Click to expand...
Lag has nothing to do with reaction time. It has to do with hand-eye coordination, which is much more sensitive to lag. I doubt you'd be able to tolerate a 100 ms lag, which is still well below the average human reaction time.

daveswantek said:
If ToastyX is saying that he is sick of people claiming that IPS panels have too much lag then I agree with him. Anything under 2 frames is negligable.
Click to expand...
No, not at all. Low lag is very important to me, which is why I care about accurate results. I'm tired of unreliable tests showing more lag than there actually is, and I'm tired of people relying on them when the results have obvious problems. I'm tired of having to explain over and over why those tests are flawed.



dowant120hz said:
apart from prad.de this site also shows over 2 frames of input lag: http://www.erodov.com/forums/dell-ultrasharp-2209wa-review/18048-page12.html
digitalversus also shows slightly over 1 frame of input lag
Click to expand...
Over 2 frames? Did you look at the picture? It shows the 55 coming in on the LCD, which means there is less than one frame of lag. On top of that, the picture shows the test has all the same problems that the PRAD test has:

1. They used a timer that's not guaranteed to update at any particular interval, and even worse, they used that Flash-based flatpanels.dk timer, which has a tendency to update erratically and doesn't update often enough to produce an accurate result. You can see that in the picture: 855 - 834 = 21 ms. There shouldn't be a 21 ms difference between two frames, and I've seen pictures that show that timer producing 30 ms differences between two frames, which completely invalidates the results. In my test, I used a vsynced timer to ensure the timer is updated between every refresh, so the difference between two frames is always 16-17 ms at 60 Hz.

2. They used clone mode, which isn't guaranteed to be synchronized. If the refresh rates of the two monitors are slightly different, like 60.02 Hz vs. 60.08 Hz, they will drift in and out of synchronization, so there will be times where one monitor is ahead of the other. In my test, I used splitters to avoid this problem.

3. They only tested one part of the screen, so you can't see where each monitor is refreshing. Both CRT and LCD monitors refresh from top to bottom, and the LCD might only be behind by a few ms due to pixel response times or clone mode desynchronization. In my test, I duplicated the timer on three parts of the screen to make it easier to see where each monitor is refreshing.

If you combine all three problems, you end up with very erratic results, often showing more lag than there actually is. Lag does not vary like that. My test always produced consistent results which showed there is no lag other than the pixel response times, and if you want to count the pixel response times, there is still less than one frame of lag.
 
Recently my 2209wa decided to kick the bucket. Apparently the power supply failed (was not silent to begin with). This is my third replacement. My original monitor had its liquid crystal display fail (backlight worked), and the second one had its power indicator fail.
 
To those that have RMA'd their 2209WAs - does Dell cover the cost of shipping it back to them? Just curious.

Mine's still within warranty, but will show a vertical line of yellow pixels every once in a while when I turn it on. :(
 
JaYp146 said:
To those that have RMA'd their 2209WAs - does Dell cover the cost of shipping it back to them? Just curious.

Mine's still within warranty, but will show a vertical line of yellow pixels every once in a while when I turn it on. :(
Click to expand...

Yes, they pay for shipping both ways. The mailing label is usually included in the box with the replacement monitor.
 
Do blacks on this panel get lighter when you're looking from a different viewing angle??

It's hard to explain, if I look on the side, all colors remain untouched, but blacks... still have the color, but it looks like something white is reflecting on them the more to the side I go? I saw a few pics in google that had this... hope it's just not my set because it covers the whole screen if i go far enough.

There is also IPS glow on the top of my 2209wa... thinking of maybe RMAing it, what's the warranty in Canada? I don't want a 2211.... those looked awful, I remember being in the thread about them when they first launched and have horrible tint issues, unless they're fixed.
 
Adreneline said:
Do blacks on this panel get lighter when you're looking from a different viewing angle??

It's hard to explain, if I look on the side, all colors remain untouched, but blacks... still have the color, but it looks like something white is reflecting on them the more to the side I go? I saw a few pics in google that had this... hope it's just not my set because it covers the whole screen if i go far enough.

There is also IPS glow on the top of my 2209wa... thinking of maybe RMAing it, what's the warranty in Canada? I don't want a 2211.... those looked awful, I remember being in the thread about them when they first launched and have horrible tint issues, unless they're fixed.
Click to expand...


That is white glow / IPS glow and the 2209WAs is the master of white glow. :rolleyes:


http://geting.se/viewimage.php?image=187842-090612_lcd_samsung_f2380_0081h.jpg
http://geting.se/viewimage.php?image=187843-090612_lcd_samsung_f2380_0084h.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKYgUY9E_cA
IPS Glow Effect (three screens, LG W2220P which shares panel with 2209WA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eA2IjlotJU
 
i still laugh when people use cameras and videos to show monitor quality, it looks very different to direct viewing. my 2209wa screen when black is nothing like in that video.
 
chrcoluk said:
i still laugh when people use cameras and videos to show monitor quality, it looks very different to direct viewing. my 2209wa screen when black is nothing like in that video.
Click to expand...

To say nothing of how their monitor's calibrated vs yours, and how the lighting is in the room, etc. ...
 
JaYp146 said:
To say nothing of how their monitor's calibrated vs yours, and how the lighting is in the room, etc. ...
Click to expand...

basically I tested it, I recorded my monitor, and it showed similiar affects to what we see online, so basically my monitor looks different when viewed directly or on a video.

I hope that explains what I meant better.
 
Has anyone had any trouble with Dell getting suitable warranty replacements for these monitors? I've got two of them that need to be replaced and Dell keeps short changing me on specifications. First they send me a dimmer 21.5" 1080p screen (way too high a pixel pitch) and then they send me a 22" TN. Trying to get in touch with Dell again about this but I doubt their customer service scripts cover this particular support problem.
 
request monitor that is not worse, and from current offering it will be U2410 as it have 8bit panel and is bright enough :)
 
I mentioned two of them to the rep via email; we'll see what happens. When the last set were sent out I asked them to give me the model number first so I could look it up...she did not know in advance what was going to be sent out and she could only leave a note in the support request that they may or may not honor over in the RMA department.

I'm trying out the U2212HM right now (it's the 21.5" screen they sent me) and so far I do not see any noticeable banding issues. Nor am I getting a whole lot of eye strain right now. Maybe these 6-bit panels have improved enough to the point that I'd be okay with them? Hmm...

OK, Dell will not send a U2312HM as a replacement to the 2209WA. My only choices are a smaller eIPS screen (U2212HM) or an equal sized TN screen (2208WFP). Already escalated the case and that's all they're willing to do. Where in the hell is Dell's replacement policy on their website? I'm sure I read somewhere that it has to be an equal or better replacement.
 
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sounds like they breaking the agreement, its not your fault dell made the idiotic decision to stop making these monitors.

glad I got a spare in a box now as this monitor is one of a kind.
 
I set monitor with nvidia CP and refreshlock to 75Hz and it make strange sound like 15dB i set this on 8800GT before 2 years and i don't remember any sound made by setting to 75Hz now i am using 560 SLI and 285.79 beta driver

Also how is best to calibrate this monitor ? with software and monitor setting
 
Called up Dell to have them replace my 2209WA (which has developed a vertical line of yellow pixels whenever it's turned on), and they said I'd be getting a replacement 2209WA (instead of a U2212HM or 2208WFP)! :D

Oh, and 1-2 shipping with Advanced Exchange ... can't beat it.
 
Surprising that they have any 2209WAs floating around at all. Dell and I went rounds with my 2209WA replacements -- I refused to accept a smaller screen nor a lower quality LCD technology. It took a corporate level customer service rep about two weeks to send me two 24" replacements.

When I spoke with him they were not anticipating any future stock on 2209WAs.
 
night_2004 said:
Surprising that they have any 2209WAs floating around at all. Dell and I went rounds with my 2209WA replacements -- I refused to accept a smaller screen nor a lower quality LCD technology. It took a corporate level customer service rep about two weeks to send me two 24" replacements.

When I spoke with him they were not anticipating any future stock on 2209WAs.
Click to expand...

Wait, you managed 24" replacements for your 2290WAs? o_O
 
JaYp146 said:
Wait, you managed 24" replacements for your 2290WAs? o_O
Click to expand...

I'm not the only one who managed to get larger replacements. One or two posters I've talked with got U2312HMs as replacements.

It wasn't easy to pull off. It took a very well worded complaint to the Better Business Bureau, and an email to my customer service representative's manager to inform them of how I felt about his employee's ability to resolve support issues, to get Dell to escalate my case.

My complaint was simple: Dell's warranty policy clearly states equal or better replacement. The important specifications were 22" diagonal, 1680x1050, and eIPS LCD technology. One replacement they offered was a TN 22" screen, the other was a 21.5" 1080p eIPS screen. Neither met all the important specifications that were selling points for the 2209WA.

Of course there was a thinly veiled threat that I would be taking them to small claims for breach of contract if the BBB escalation did not resolve my issues. Ultimately the executive customer care representative agreed with me, was sorry that it went so far that I had to consider court action, and promptly shipped me two 24" monitors.

It was pretty damn funny for a little bit too. I had the two 2209WAs (to be RMA'd), two U2212HMs (first replacement set), two 2208WFPs (second replacement set), and one U2412M (third replacement set, one monitor had bad pixels) that all had to be picked up by UPS on the same day. I don't think he enjoyed picking up 7 large boxes from my address as he took it out on the next package that UPS delivered to my house (Corsair 550D).
 
night_2004 said:
I'm not the only one who managed to get larger replacements. One or two posters I've talked with got U2312HMs as replacements.

It wasn't easy to pull off. It took a very well worded complaint to the Better Business Bureau, and an email to my customer service representative's manager to inform them of how I felt about his employee's ability to resolve support issues, to get Dell to escalate my case.

My complaint was simple: Dell's warranty policy clearly states equal or better replacement. The important specifications were 22" diagonal, 1680x1050, and eIPS LCD technology. One replacement they offered was a TN 22" screen, the other was a 21.5" 1080p eIPS screen. Neither met all the important specifications that were selling points for the 2209WA.

Of course there was a thinly veiled threat that I would be taking them to small claims for breach of contract if the BBB escalation did not resolve my issues. Ultimately the executive customer care representative agreed with me, was sorry that it went so far that I had to consider court action, and promptly shipped me two 24" monitors.

It was pretty damn funny for a little bit too. I had the two 2209WAs (to be RMA'd), two U2212HMs (first replacement set), two 2208WFPs (second replacement set), and one U2412M (third replacement set, one monitor had bad pixels) that all had to be picked up by UPS on the same day. I don't think he enjoyed picking up 7 large boxes from my address as he took it out on the next package that UPS delivered to my house (Corsair 550D).
Click to expand...

Ahhh, I see. Good/smart play on your part, there.

Also, customer support rep was a moron; they ended up sending me a U2312HM as my 2209WA's replacement (which I am perfectly okay with). No dead pixels, perfect condition (despite it being marked as a refurb). Very pleased.
 
The U2312HM was one of the monitors I suggested would be a suitable replacement when I went to the BBB. They didn't have any refurb U2312HMs in stock at the time so they upgraded me to the U2412M. Luck of the draw :).
 
I don't know anything about calibration so I would like to learn how to do it.
Anyone know of some guides or suggestions for this particular monitor?

Dell UltraSharp 2209WA
REV A01 Jun 2009 China
Windows 7 64-bit

I can also borrow a old Spyder 2 express would that help?
I'll be using it for gaming and some movies.
 
spyder pro 3 is pretty good and all you really need unless your anal or need multi monitor support Calman is the best
 
123Lanoix said:
spyder pro 3 is pretty good and all you really need unless your anal or need multi monitor support Calman is the best
Click to expand...

So the Spyder 2 express is to old to use with Windows 7 then? I'm asking because I could borrow it for free. They don't know how to use it though so I'll have to read up on that myself.

The spider 3 pro costs 100 € already so I guess I might as well buy something that can calibrate a multi monitor setup and TV's while I'm at it.
 
Any good fellas in here still have the ICC / ICM profile by 10e? I can't find it on the internet anymore.
 
Anyone still using their 2209WA? I just realized mine is 9 years old, but it's still in perfect condition and is the best for reading text. I'm using it to post this right now.

Though I wonder if there are any newer monitors that are as good or better for eye strain while reading.
 
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