Just ordered the Dell UltraSharp 2209WA

Your point being? - sorry I dont give a toss if a 2000 dollar display has the same problems, I wasn't happy with mine...along with many others in this forum who arent happy with the uniformity problems. Mine went back...if more people did that rather than put up with this sub-standard bullshit maybe the public would receive better displays as a result. But that's asking a lot, at least my cash isn't lining their pockets.
 
Here's a few pictures of the uniformity problem I had with my display, needless to say i returned this piece of crap, i'll wait till something else comes down the pipe thx...u can keep your dell 3 year warranty panel lottery bullshit.

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/crinklecut/images
Click to expand...

To be honest, I have a hard time spotting it on those pictures, My HP LP2475W had uniformity issues as well, but those were much more visible.

I'm actually starting to believe almost all IPS panels manufactured by LG suffer from this to some extent, meaning if you want a perfect uniform screen you probably need to look at S-PVA or A-MVA screens (or perhaps TN if you can live with that).

I'm currently doubting whether to get this Dell or not, the HP I sent back had serious color uniformity issues, and by reading through these forums I believe a large number of Dell screens have similar issues as well, probably due to LG's poor quality control.
 
My point is there is no perfect LCD, you were over reacting calling a piece of crap. Expectations have align somewhat with pricing.

What do you think is currently a great panel worthy of you?
 
Jesus you're one arrogant individual. You need to get that stick out of your ass and stop talking to people in this thread like you know them and are superior to them. Im not even gonna get drawn into a rant with someone like you...go get yourself laid....
 
for anyone whos's still struggling with loading profiles on Vista, the best solution i was able to come up with is using an utility that lets you to delay certain programs at startup (WinPatrol for example) and Lut Manager being the delayed one. this way it loads after Vista and NVidia useless attempts to serve any purpose here.
 
Razenko, trust me the uniformity issues are there and they are very pronounced. I understand what you're saying about the LG issue as i've seen it mentioned before in this thread alone several times. The trouble with that is this isn't even an LG monitor so how are the general public going to know to stay away from a certain brand when they supply panels to the likes of Dell etc. Expectations do not have to allign somewhat with pricing when you are talking about a basic such as screen brightness uniformity. This is down to the way the screen is constructed and if you have ever taken an LCD apart you will know that can be something as simple as creases in the transparent or reflective film inside the LCD itself, hardly brain surgery for a major LCD manufacturer. The fact that these uniformity issues differ from screen to screen pretty much tells me the manufacturing process is lacking somewhat. People don't have to pay for this crap...that's my point and I think a relevant one.
 
crinklecutt said:
Jesus you're one arrogant individual. You need to get that stick out of your ass and stop talking to people in this thread like you know them and are superior to them. Im not even gonna get drawn into a rant with someone like you...go get yourself laid....
Click to expand...

Wow another foul mouth hater. You and Roach could be brothers. In fact you use similar phrasing even...:p
 
Probably someone who has an issue with being spoken down to like myself. Foul mouth hater?!? you're the one who went off on one because I called it a "piece of shit"...LMFAO...
 
And no not Roachs brother or even aquaintance...he came across pretty much how u do...arrogant in the extreme.
 
After having used mine for a few days, wanted to say I'm very happy with the purchase. I have no dead pixels, excessive or pronounced backlight bleed, uniformity issues, etc. I also have two 20wmgx2, and just returned a Planar PX2611W. After falling in love with the 20wmgx2, I wanted a bigger IPS panel and selected the Planar. Loved the size, but for some reason I couldn't get my eyes to stop straining with it. I suspect it was due to a combination of brightness and resolution. After trying to calibrate and adjust brightness/dpi, I couldnt find a happy medium and was not going to just settle on a $800+ purchase. So back she went and I replaced it with the 2209WA. After adjusting the brightness slightly and raising the dpi a tad, I'm very happy with the results and my eyes are as well. I've yet to calibrate as I'm considering purchasing a new calibrator, but I suspect the image will be even better. Not to mention I put $600+ back in my pocket! My only regret is that I can't fit a second one in my desk hutch! Its a great buy people, can't beat it for the $$. Even if you use it as a go between while searching for that "perfect" monitor that we all know isn't out there.
 
TFTcentral use a nice graphic to show screen uniformity. Also good as you can repeat it yourself, take 35 unique luminance measures on a 7x5 grid, plot it on the same graphic using the same key they use. Jeesh - I thought my monitor was perfect before some doubters got me looking (too?) close.
Here's the chart.
a5fbwx.jpg


Here's an HP 24" H-IPS panel with results pretty similar to mine - even the shape and size of the bright "hot spot" is similar. I swear I didn't notice that until after my chart was drawn. Is it likely that temperature has a significant effect on luminance? The "hot spot" on my 2209wa is the hottest area to touch on the back of the panel. Perhaps that's where the PSU is. I wonder if people with panel uniformity issues are in cool rooms.
uniformity.jpg


I can't get my spyder right into the extreme corners - it wouldn't surprise me that if I could have, it might have made my chart look even closer to the HP chart.

Anyway, perhaps someone else would care to waste an hour and repeat my test. Use Colimetre HCFR against a white screen on continuous measures. It takes a second or so to get a measure, so take the second reading - not the first, as it could have been measuring while you were moving the probe. For reference the temperature of work area might be interesting. Mine about 20 deg C / 68 deg F. Monitor had been on for several hours.
 
crinklecutt said:
Probably someone who has an issue with being spoken down to like myself. Foul mouth hater?!? you're the one who went off on one because I called it a "piece of shit"...LMFAO...
Click to expand...


Went off? All I said was that you over-reacted. Which you continue to do.
 
i1 Display 2 users - how do you properly color calibrate the 2209WA? Contrast, Color temp, and brightness all seem to affect each other. So I can do 10 color calibration runs with EyeOne Match and they all end up with different contrast/color temp/brightness settings.

Do you just do 1 run in the order provided by the EyeOne Match software (Contrast -> color temp -> brightness) and say that's that?
 
papangel said:
TFTcentral use a nice graphic to show screen uniformity. Also good as you can repeat it yourself, take 35 unique luminance measures on a 7x5 grid, plot it on the same graphic using the same key they use. Jeesh - I thought my monitor was perfect before some doubters got me looking (too?) close.
Here's the chart.
a5fbwx.jpg


Here's an HP 24" H-IPS panel with results pretty similar to mine - even the shape and size of the bright "hot spot" is similar. I swear I didn't notice that until after my chart was drawn. Is it likely that temperature has a significant effect on luminance? The "hot spot" on my 2209wa is the hottest area to touch on the back of the panel. Perhaps that's where the PSU is. I wonder if people with panel uniformity issues are in cool rooms.
uniformity.jpg


I can't get my spyder right into the extreme corners - it wouldn't surprise me that if I could have, it might have made my chart look even closer to the HP chart.

Anyway, perhaps someone else would care to waste an hour and repeat my test. Use Colimetre HCFR against a white screen on continuous measures. It takes a second or so to get a measure, so take the second reading - not the first, as it could have been measuring while you were moving the probe. For reference the temperature of work area might be interesting. Mine about 20 deg C / 68 deg F. Monitor had been on for several hours.
Click to expand...

This is an interesting observation because my den is by far the coolest place in my house. We're talking about temps between 60 - 65 degrees sometimes it even feels colder.

I really wonder if the uniformity issue really could be a realtive room temp issue. hhhmmmm
 
Snowdog said:
And here is $2000 NEC to compare:

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1032596224&postcount=238
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Sorry if I spend my hard earned I expect a minimum of quality regardless of what I paid. Some of us dont have 2000 dollars to spend on a display.



Snowdog said:
My point is there is no perfect LCD, you were over reacting calling a piece of crap. Expectations have align somewhat with pricing.

What do you think is currently a great panel worthy of you?
Click to expand...

Would you like some more condescending on your fries sir?


Snowdog said:
Wow another foul mouth hater. You and Roach could be brothers. In fact you use similar phrasing even...:p
Click to expand...

Comparing me to someone you had a vendetta against when you dont even know me and im new here. Lol welcome to hardforum eh....


Snowdog said:
Went off? All I said was that you over-reacted. Which you continue to do.
Click to expand...

Think you'll find you said a little more than "All I said was that you over-reacted" You didn't proceed to state that a 2000 dollar monitor has worse issues than mine, the reason being to undermine my statement as this monitor is cheaper than your 2000 dollar example, therefore people should put up or shut up?!?!?...do me a favour... this is a forum where I thought people could openly discuss the thread topic without being attacked by people like you with their arrogant statements. Sorry but I was under the impression people wanted to hear both the pros and cons of this piece of hardware so they can make a subjective decision about purchasing. You then proceed to talk down to me and ask "What do you think is currently a great panel worthy of you?" You seem to think you have the right to speak to people like shit in this thread if they hold a view or opinion that differs from yours. I find it rather pathetic that you have such a hard on over a piece of hardware, that anyone who says something negative about it you feel the need to jump to it's defense and attack them, anyone in this thread has the right to say what they want about said hardware if they have owned it, without being subjected to your vetting procedure over their choice of words. I fail to understand how calling an inanimate object "a piece of crap" has the effect on you that it does. I think I should start a new thread to have a whip round for you to get you laid buddy... you have issues.
 
Unfortunately, my replacement monitor was just as bad as the original. In addition to poor screen uniformity, the new one has vertical banding. The uniformity problem isn't just a brightness thing ... the right side of the screen has a kind of weird orange tinge to it on a light colored background.

Both monitors had zero dead/stuck pixels and zero buzzing. It's really sad, I was very excited about getting an IPS panel without a wide gamut at such a fantastic price.

I absolutely hate returning things, but both monitors are going back to Dell. I'm not one to order stuff just to 'evaluate' it, usually I wait till I've seen professional reviews. I was seduced by the $216 price tag into just grabbing one quickly.
 
crinklecutt said:
Razenko, trust me the uniformity issues are there and they are very pronounced. I understand what you're saying about the LG issue as i've seen it mentioned before in this thread alone several times. The trouble with that is this isn't even an LG monitor so how are the general public going to know to stay away from a certain brand when they supply panels to the likes of Dell etc. Expectations do not have to allign somewhat with pricing when you are talking about a basic such as screen brightness uniformity. This is down to the way the screen is constructed and if you have ever taken an LCD apart you will know that can be something as simple as creases in the transparent or reflective film inside the LCD itself, hardly brain surgery for a major LCD manufacturer. The fact that these uniformity issues differ from screen to screen pretty much tells me the manufacturing process is lacking somewhat. People don't have to pay for this crap...that's my point and I think a relevant one.
Click to expand...

Actually I've seen almost the identical "pattern" of uniformity on my 26" LCD2690WUXI by NEC, so it definitely is an LG panel characteristic. In fact, I've also seen it on the 23" Cinema display by Apple, which (again) uses an LG 23" IPS panel.

Ultimately if the issue were also clouding on a dark screen I'd chalk it up to Dell's poor construction, but I have none in that aspect.

I do agree that it would be nice to have near perfect uniformity, and I'm grabbing my colorimeter tonight to see if that spot is actually a dark area or it's just LG's poor application of anti-glare, which can have some impact on the monitor's uniformity.

But I have to DISagree with this monitor being a "piece of crap". I would have personally preferred that they had put an "aspect" ratio scaling mode in it like they did on my 2709W, which is incredible in this regard, but otherwise there are a lot of strong points to this screen compared to most 22" monitors I've seen like viewing angle, calibration possibilities, and nice low input lag that is barely there (if at all). Additionally the ability to raise and lower the backlight by close to 150 cdm/2 without flickering is nice too. Also at normal 140 cdm/2 brightness the contrast ratio can be varied between 500:1 to 800:1 without huge loss in quality.

Yes I'd agree that uniformity should be visually better, as no LCD is perfect in this regard, and that it should have slightly more "standard" contrast adjustments without the correlating gamma issues (ie. default of 75 being 2.0 gamma instead of 2.2).

At the end of the day it may not be perfect, but it is pretty far from being a piece of crap, especially considering that most 22" monitors are TN and the only one that is somewhat visually comparable (LG L227WT) is about the same price in retail, and is a wide gamut TN.

Considering that the general public has been buying 22" TN panels by the droves, I don't think most of them would even be that aware of the uniformity issue.

I don't think Snowdog has a "hard on" for this particular device, I think his opinion MAY be (and I'm not speaking specifically for him) it fills an important part of the market, that the general populace doesn't understand should exist, which is standard gamut IPS. Honestly, I am almost ready to sell my other two wide gamut screens because I am satisfied with the fact that it is "standard" sRGB gamut. If I want over saturated colors, I can buy an HDTV with a "color knob" so I can crank up the color sliders.

My honest opinion comes after nearly two weeks is that in the 22" segment it's pretty good.. The latest E2200HD BenQ I used was a gross disappointment, even taking into account that it is 1080p resolution (1920x1080), has more inputs, and better ratio scaling. I'd still rate this 2209WA as a better screen in almost every way.

I plan to resubmit my user review after I do my brightness "check up", but again mileage varies from unit to unit, so it won't be definitive, just a general "this is my opinion, take it or leave it" sort of post.

Best of luck finding what you seek. Maybe an HP LP2275W would be better for you? It is S-PVA, but sounds decent too, and is probably the only real competition for this screen that I know of.
 
rberger said:
Unfortunately, my replacement monitor was just as bad as the original. In addition to poor screen uniformity, the new one has vertical banding. The uniformity problem isn't just a brightness thing ... the right side of the screen has a kind of weird orange tinge to it on a light colored background.

Both monitors had zero dead/stuck pixels and zero buzzing. It's really sad, I was very excited about getting an IPS panel without a wide gamut at such a fantastic price.

I absolutely hate returning things, but both monitors are going back to Dell. I'm not one to order stuff just to 'evaluate' it, usually I wait till I've seen professional reviews. I was seduced by the $216 price tag into just grabbing one quickly.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that RBerger. I have the uniformity issue, which is hard to pick up on at straight-on viewing angles (as it can be seen horizontally from the side) but I don't have the tinting on mine.

Best of luck. Maybe the LG 1080p 23" panels will have better uniformity and be better with whites.
 
Thanks 10e nice to hear an educated, thoughtful reply. Initially I did think this was a very good screen until becoming aware of how bad the uniformity problem was, and you're right "piece of crap" may of been too strong a word to describe it, but hey i was annoyed and it's no ones place on this forum to vet what language is being used and who made snowdog the language police? Im not the first person he's spoken down to in this thread, pretty sure I wont be the last. Think i'll wait till some LED backlit 24 inch eips screens make an appearance, not saying they'll be any better on the uniformity as it may as you stated be something to do with the anti glare coating etc - although im thinking it's more internal due to how pronounced it was on my screen, but hey who knows...your guess is as good as mine ;)
 
Are uniformity issues common with TN panels? This was my first modern external monitor and I returned it because of the difference in lighting on each side, but if every decent TN monitor today are like that then...I might have to rebuy this.
 
Well to be honest, my HP did not have any brightness uniformity problems, but had a green tint on 2/3 of the screen (poor color uniformity), which was a common problem with the HP.

Honestly I wouldn't really care if the Dell, consdering the price of the screen, had some (relatively minor) brightness uniformity issues.

But the green tinting on my previous HP was extremely obvious, you could see it in an instant if you opened up Google, or even when just looking at the Windows desktop, even my very un-videophile family noticed this clearly.

A misconception on several different forums that I often see is that people always praise IPS for having great viewing angles.

I strongly disagree with this, IPS has great 'color' viewing angles, but as soon as something dark/black appears on the screen, that awful white glow effect would appear even when watching slightly off-angle in a darkened room.

The more expensive IPS panels have A-TW polarizers to prevent this, but the cheaper panels, like the ones used in the Dell and the HP do not have these premium features, and the white glow effect is very obvious and frustrating, degrading the great viewing angles of IPS severly.
 
rberger said:
Snowdog, sounds like you take me for an idiot. Have a look at my previous posts for some context.

Brightness controls the minimum luminance level ... like making sure you're not crushing shadow detail by using a pluge pattern. It's the contrast control that sets the peak luminance level. The terminology is confusing but that's the way it works.
Click to expand...

This information is correct for CRTs. LCDs are much different. The Brightness control for LCDs sets the backlight intensity, which I dont think will clip blacks as it would in a CRT. From 'Digital Video and HDTV' by Charles Poynton:

LCD displays have controls labeled brightness and
contrast, but these controls have different functions
than the like-named controls of a CRT display. In an
LCD, the brightness control, or the control with that
icon, typically alters the backlight luminance.
Click to expand...

crinklecut said:
get you laid buddy... you have issues.
Click to expand...

That's pretty bad, man. Snowdog's posts are literate of what LCD monitors have demonstrated in the past. Your posts have diminished this thread.
 
He wasn't condescending towards you. Sorry but when some stranger gets off thinking he can talk to me like shit I will respond in kind. And how have my posts diminished this thread? I cared enough to post pictures of a monitor I no longer own so that someone else doesnt make the same mistake i did. Thought this was what this thread was about. You telling me it's fair for him to speak to people the way he does and nobody cares enough to pull him up? Who moderates this crap?
 
Additionally I find it kinda ironic that within the very post you defend him in you use a quote that has some other forum member defending himself against the same person. "Snowdog, sounds like you take me for an idiot. Have a look at my previous posts for some context." If you're trying to make a point it just flew over my head buddy.
 
Brightness, contrast, and backlight controls, are easy to sort out on TVs, because they're separate. Less clear cut on monitors it seems...
 
crinklecutt said:
He wasn't condescending towards you. Sorry but when some stranger gets off thinking he can talk to me like shit I will respond in kind. And how have my posts diminished this thread? I cared enough to post pictures of a monitor I no longer own so that someone else doesnt make the same mistake i did. Thought this was what this thread was about. You telling me it's fair for him to speak to people the way he does and nobody cares enough to pull him up? Who moderates this crap?
Click to expand...

I have to kindly DISAGREE that you called it a "mistake" for buying the 2209wa, it's all about expectation. You don't expect Porsche quality when you're actually buying a Civic with a Civic price, and nobody is advertising the 2209wa is as good as other premium LCDs worth up to thousands.

Sorry bud, but it looks like you are expecting too way much for a $300 monitor (or even $200 like MANY of the people got here).

After all nobody is stopping you from pointing out the CONs about this LCD ( like any other LCDs would also have their own CONs), but you're making it like the 2209wa don't worth a crap and calling it "a piece of shit", then no wonder you annoyed many owners who are totally satisfied with their purchase, or future owners who are just looking for a better choice then a TN panel for the same price.

Show us something better with a similar price, then I think we will start taking you seriously.
 
I'm sorry but why do I have to show you something better with a similar price? My job here isn't to prove the existance of a better panel in order to lend weight to my argument that I think this panel is lacking - this is the dell ultrasharp 2209WA thread am I right? In regard to snowdog this individual needs to learn some manners in the way he speaks to people. I really don't give a toss whether you as an individual or this whole forum as a collective takes me seriously or not....I was merely defending myself against someone who feels they can talk to people like shit...move along now...
 
crinklecutt said:
I'm sorry but why do I have to show you something better with a similar price? My job here isn't to prove the existance of a better panel in order to lend weight to my argument that I think this panel is lacking - this is the dell ultrasharp 2209WA thread am I right? In regard to snowdog this individual needs to learn some manners in the way he speaks to people. I really don't give a toss whether you as an individual or this whole forum as a collective takes me seriously or not....I was merely defending myself against someone who feels they can talk to people like shit...move along now...
Click to expand...

Sure buddy, you don't need my or any other individual's approval to post here. But it looks like to me you are quite cloud by your dissatisfaction about the 2209wa, and have no intention nor interested to engage a civilized and reasonable conversation about the monitor's Pro's/Con's.

I am glad you got your money back and will probably never see you in this thread in the near future...

moving along now :rolleyes:
 
Oh and you took me seriously enough for my calling it "a piece of crap" to add your 10 cents to the argument...my panel was a piece of crap, yours and many others in this thread may very well not be, if thats the case im very happy for you and my words will mean nothing to these individuals because they know better. Im only going on my experience of this panel and posting pictures about such. I wasn't about to enter into a panel lottery to find out after the complaints ive noted throughout this thread regarding uniformity.
 
Next time I post on here i'll remember not to call something a piece of crap because im dissatisfied with it. God forbid I ruffle any more feathers on here. It's a piece of hardware...get over yourself. :/
 
crinklecutt said:
Oh and you took me seriously enough for my calling it "a piece of crap" to add your 10 cents to the argument...my panel was a piece of crap, yours and many others in this thread may very well not be, if thats the case im very happy for you and my words will mean nothing to these individuals because they know better. Im only going on my experience of this panel and posting pictures about such. I wasn't about to enter into a panel lottery to find out after the complaints ive noted throughout this thread regarding uniformity.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't see anything seriously wrong from your pictures with my bare eyes, may be it's the picture quality. Try taking it with AP mode or at least focus it better.

I measured mine with real hard numbers and it's no biggie, if yours really that bad then better luck next time.

But it's funny if a $2/300 monitor is not up to your expectation deemed "a piece of crap", this is one m.f. smelly world we are living in.
 
crazycap said:
I honestly don't see anything seriously wrong from your pictures with my bare eyes, may be it's the picture quality. Try taking it with AP mode or at least focus it better.

I measured mine with real hard numbers and it's no biggie, if yours really that bad then better luck next time.

But it's funny if a $2/300 monitor is not up to your expectation deemed "a piece of crap", this is one m.f. smelly world we are living in.
Click to expand...


Obviously my expectations are higher than yours when I use my hard earned to pay for something I purchase. But you know what they say opinions are like assholes...everybody has one.:rolleyes:
 
crinklecutt said:
I'm sorry but why do I have to show you something better with a similar price? My job here isn't to prove the existance of a better panel in order to lend weight to my argument that I think this panel is lacking
Click to expand...

You said that the monitor is "a piece of crap" and to purchase one is to make a mistake. These statements are authoritative and a generalisation, so they demand appropriate justification.

If you were to say "My experience with the monitor was very negative, and the quality issues present can't be acceptable at any price.", I would support your comment.

10e and Snowdog are probably both aware of stories by people who have had to return half a dozen TN type displays at the same price point or higher. Your statements are unreasonable to someone with a robust understanding of the subject.

crinklecutt said:
I really don't give a toss whether you as an individual or this whole forum as a collective takes me seriously or not
Click to expand...

This isn't 4chan. When people read each other's comments, they assume good faith. Your posts are pretty much permanent, and your admission implies contempt.
 
They demand appropiate justfication? My justification was the pictures I posted which even 10e said had strikingly similiar uniformity issues to another monitor he's seen. You people keep using the price as a justification for poor manufacturing, If you're happy with spending 300 dollars or whatever on a LCD which doesnt live up to your expectations so be it. I wasn't. I returned it. End of...im getting bored defending myself now...
 
CrypticHorde said:
This is an interesting observation because my den is by far the coolest place in my house. We're talking about temps between 60 - 65 degrees sometimes it even feels colder.

I really wonder if the uniformity issue really could be a realtive room temp issue. hhhmmmm
Click to expand...

I don't have the instruments to measure screen temperature. But here's a better visual representation of panel (dis)uniformity from a 12 bit raw file taken at base ISO using a macro lens (low light fall-off) and editing the file by applying about 50 pixels gaussian blur to get rid of blockiness artifacts from moire, desaturating, then applying a levels curve to greatly exaggerate contrast. There's about 20 posterised "levels" there, so someone good at maths could be able to work out approximate relative luminance values from darkest to lightest based on integer rounding of 12 bit data. It's a more accurate "plot" than TFTCentral's method which I used to make a fairly similar chart in my earlier post - quite expected as only 35 points were measured consecutively rather than millions measured simultaneously. If you used a consistent exposure parameter, applied standard curves and post processing, then you could have a better and faster method for screen uniformity measurement. My measurements with a colorimeter - showing +/- 5% luminance over most of the panel, with -5-10% variation at the bottom, probably closer to about +/- 8% when I look at recorded values. Now that I look hard at a white screen, yes I can see it. (darn the usual bleater/trasher posts that always pop up with "problems" when a bargain arises) I won't complain about it though, because I'm certain that my (originally very expensive) Diamondtron CRT was worse for uniformity, most of the panels measured by TFTCentral are worse - and IMHO, the 2209wa is a true bargain if the specs meet your needs.

What I can tell you with good certainly, is that the bright areas on the image below are areas where the surface of the screen feels warmer, not just the back panel of the monitor. I guess that it is the PSU - but I'm not pulling it apart to check this out. Perhaps makers should put the PSU in the base stand to avoid this effect.

nl6g4m.jpg
 
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