Kevin Smith vs. Southwest via Twitter

It seems like a lot of people are going purely off of what Kevin Smith has said in his Tweets, and haven't actually read the full story itself.

Kevin Smith wanted to go on a flight to Burbank. He purchased two seats for said flight.

Then, he found out he could get on an earlier flight, but that flight only had one seat available. He went ahead and tried to be seated. The crew of the plane determined that he didn't meet their policy for a passenger's size in a single seat, a policy he has agreed to countless times as he himself has admitted in stating he's been flying Southwest, so they asked him to disembark from his plane (and ultimately go with his later flight). He then goes on a tirade against Southwest.

Now, he himself has stated that he normally prefers two seats because it's more comfortable, which means that he's very much pushing it to be in one seat. I don't know how many people here have had the experience of sitting next to a fairly large person in one seat, but it isn't comfortable: sure, they can *technically* fit in the seat next to mine, but then usually their arms hang over into adjacent seats, etc. I once had to sit next to such a person, and while sleeping their elbow and arm kept hitting me in the chest and head the entire flight, until finally I asked that they not sleep because of what it was resulting in.

Passenger comfort goes both ways, and I'm sorry, but he's acting like a child. He should spend less time fighting Southwest, and more time booking with a dietitian. If Peter Jackson can lose considerable weight, so can Kevin Smith.
 
sweeper240 said:
The details of this are fairly important.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Kevin Smith had previously purchased 2 seats because he already knew that he had to fit in the airplane in order to fly. If this is the case that means that he fully understood and agrees with the fact that he overflows in one seat and thusly requires 2.

Then he proceeds to have the opportunity to get on a flight departing sooner, so he makes a change. Did he then transfer the opportunity to fly on one flight with two seats, for two seats in the prefered flight? Or was the opportunity such that it required him to only take one seat risking the chance that he may or may not fit in one seat.

If such is the case, then clearly he took a risk and failed, and choose poorly
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I was under the impression that this was the case.
 
sweeper240 said:
The details of this are fairly important.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Kevin Smith had previously purchased 2 seats because he already knew that he had to fit in the airplane in order to fly. If this is the case that means that he fully understood and agrees with the fact that he overflows in one seat and thusly requires 2.

Then he proceeds to have the opportunity to get on a flight departing sooner, so he makes a change. Did he then transfer the opportunity to fly on one flight with two seats, for two seats in the prefered flight? Or was the opportunity such that it required him to only take one seat risking the chance that he may or may not fit in one seat.

If such is the case, then clearly he took a risk and failed, and choose poorly
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The earlier flight only had one seat, but he chose to risk it so he could depart sooner.
 
How bout try another airline fatty? haha! fatty fatty two by four, cant fit through the bedroom door. This guy is a crybaby. God the internet is pathetic.
 
You know what? F*ck all of you. I am 6'6" 285lbs and around 14% body fat. I wear a 58 long in a suit, my shoulders alone put the hurt on the seat next to me.

You want me to buy an extra seat? How about I buy 3 seats since my legs don't fit either? That way the guy in front of me can't jack his damn seat into my knees.

This is out of hand, in 1976 when 90% of these fricking airplanes were made not that many people flied, and America wasn't as fat. People were also shorter.

/disgruntled, tall, and fit person.
 
Steve said:
Why stop with fat people that bother you on a plane?

How many times have you been stuck next to Mr. Dreds-hasn’t-showered-in-a-week guy that stinks to high heaven? Insanely crazy crying baby…that isn’t required to buy a seat? Super snoring guy that saws logs in your ear for 10 hours? Incessantly chatty bitch that will not shut her trap the whole flight? Way too drunk dude/chick that the airline KEEPS serving? The creepy ass dude that could be a shoe bomber?

Now that I think about it? How come they don’t BAN anyone that isn’t cool…you know…like us. For lack of a rolleyes + tongue smiley...I'll just use :p
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Dear god. Quoted. For. The. Truth. And. Nothing. But.

I was reading all this and getting caught up in the situation and completely neglected everything else. Personally I see a few things wrong with this situation:

1. Southwest is on the cheap side - yet they offer the most flights and such. If there was a first class, I don't doubt Kevin Smith would have purchased said ticket. Like mentioned, he normally purchases 2 seats.

2. Fatties exist. It's a fact. Like Steve mentioned above so do screaming babies. You have no idea how bad I have wanted to physically hurt a woman who has no compassion for other people on the flight. The main thing to remember is like Steve said This situation is no different! Sure this got media attention, but it's still no different than crying baby, dude that smells, etc... The simple fact is you either have to eliminate all of the above mentioned things, or none at all In my humble opinion.

3. My simple and final 2 cents: If he fit in the seat with the arms down (and especially if the passengers shrugged this off and didn't seem to complain too much) then I think hes more than entitled to fly. For people that say "What about my comfort?" I say tough shit - god forbid you aren't completely relaxed for a 1-2 hour flight. Read a book. Ask to relocate if it isn't sold out. Is your life really a complete disaster after having to suffer sitting somewhat close to an overweight person for a limited amount of time?
 
The airlines treat people like cattle and intentionally install seats which are not adequate for the demographic they serve.

I do not buy the argument that the cost of flying is directly proportional to the number of passengers on board. Where does the money comes from for these ridiculous body scanners, which would not have been able to identify PETN, the explosive used by the most recent patsy? (I am still waiting for someone to explain who the patsy was supposed to ignite the PETN without the required blasting cap)

The insane cost of an airplane ticket is the result of expensive but ineffective security devices, and the salaries of the rude and indifferent security and wicket employees.
 
Cyraxx said:
For people that say "What about my comfort?" I say tough shit - god forbid you aren't completely relaxed for a 1-2 hour flight. Read a book. Ask to relocate if it isn't sold out. Is your life really a complete disaster after having to suffer sitting somewhat close to an overweight person for a limited amount of time?
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Ok, but then the counter point is why does someone have to suffer because another person is large? So it's ok to be large and inconvenience people, but not ok to be someone who gets annoyed when being inconvenienced? Yeah, ok...

I remember, the last time I was in Rome, our flight was delayed by almost an hour because the airport kept paging for a group of passengers who hadn't yet checked in. Apparently it was ok for those people to inconvenience the rest of the passengers, as the rest of us were just "whiners". Right?
 
Kevin Smith is fat. He doesn't LOOK too fat to fly in a single seat, nor does it sound like it.

The only way we'll know is if Southwest delivers a seat to the talk show so we can see him sitting in it.
 
Fharakin said:
You know what? F*ck all of you. I am 6'6" 285lbs and around 14% body fat. I wear a 58 long in a suit, my shoulders alone put the hurt on the seat next to me.

You want me to buy an extra seat? How about I buy 3 seats since my legs don't fit either? That way the guy in front of me can't jack his damn seat into my knees.
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You're 3 inches' worse off than I am, but I feel your pain about the leg room (ha!). My 6'3" frame is probably why I have no problem with width in an airplane seat, but it also means that my legs cramp up in 20 minutes or less on any mass transportation (particularly my local buses where I have to either suffer or use one of the side seats).
Cyraxx said:
Sure this got media attention, but it's still no different than crying baby, dude that smells, etc... The simple fact is you either have to eliminate all of the above mentioned things, or none at all In my humble opinion.
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The smells can be the worst. I'd rather be cuddled by a big hairy dude who was considerate enough to use deodorant than have to spend hours in an enclosed space smelling the elderly woman who piles on the nasty perfume or the guy who boarded the plane after a 2 mile run in a leather jacket.
 
there is a medical number on what qualifies as "obese" and "morbidly obese" blah blah

I realize you can't make everyone happy and 90% of people flying would probably not fit into the "perfectly fit" category, airlines need to get together figure out a standard height/weight and if you are over that by even 1lb, we start adding a weight fee, if you are over a threshold beyond what would be considered normal then you buy 2 seats or you don't fly.

We don't have all the facts in this case, so im not going to judge either way, if he can get the arm rests down and only use 1 belt im inclined to agree he should have flown.
 
ToastyBread said:
Ok, but then the counter point is why does someone have to suffer because another person is large? So it's ok to be large and inconvenience people, but not ok to be someone who gets annoyed when being inconvenienced? Yeah, ok...

I remember, the last time I was in Rome, our flight was delayed by almost an hour because the airport kept paging for a group of passengers who hadn't yet checked in. Apparently it was ok for those people to inconvenience the rest of the passengers, as the rest of us were just "whiners". Right?
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Holding up a whole plain and possibly inconveniencing the one person beside you for an hour or two are hardly in the same boat. :rolleyes:
 
ToastyBread said:
Ok, but then the counter point is why does someone have to suffer because another person is large? So it's ok to be large and inconvenience people, but not ok to be someone who gets annoyed when being inconvenienced? Yeah, ok...

I remember, the last time I was in Rome, our flight was delayed by almost an hour because the airport kept paging for a group of passengers who hadn't yet checked in. Apparently it was ok for those people to inconvenience the rest of the passengers, as the rest of us were just "whiners". Right?
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Did....did you just compare people affecting your takeoff time to people that make you feel a bit uneasy having to sit close to them? I think you just did.... Yeah you did. But for the former, take a look at your rights list - especially on a plane. It isn't too big. You know - mostly because flying is a privilege.
 
I think Southwest should fight back with a little comedy of their own. They should accept the offer to go on The Daily Show and bring in an extra small replica seat that he won't fit in.
 
Silent Bob is fat and he's pissed about it. Instead of bitching and groaning, he should steer that energy to his feet and run some pounds off. :rolleyes:
 
Personally Im just kinda laughing how this story came out "Just in time"...By that I mean, just as it was becoming pretty well known that Southwest is the one airline actually reporting a profit, something comes out like this and can possibly shatter it :p
 
Cyraxx said:
Did....did you just compare people affecting your takeoff time to people that make you feel a bit uneasy having to sit close to them? I think you just did.... Yeah you did. But for the former, take a look at your rights list - especially on a plane. It isn't too big. You know - mostly because flying is a privilege.
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Yes, I did. A group of passengers caused me to be delayed for almost an hour. In and of itself, that's an annoyance. However, I'd much rather be delayed an hour, and then have a comfortable flight, than have to put up with someone constantly moving their arms into my area because they barely (or don't) fit the seat.

I'm sorry, but I have had to put up with large people hitting me before and such because they barely fit their seat, and when they'd go to lift their arms, their elbow would basically end up hitting me in the chest and a few times the side of the face. Having to deal with that for a few hours, or even several hours (if it were a international flight), is far more annoying than a delayed take off.

And you know what? You're absolutely right. Flying is a privilege - you purchase the right to fly on a plane, but under the pretense that you follow the airlines rules. If the airline says you're too large for your seat, that's their right - it's not your right to object, because you agreed to abide by their rules and regulations. Thus, Kevin Smith has no ground here from which to argue from.
 
Fat%20guy%20on%20plane.jpg
 
ToastyBread said:
I'm sorry, but I have had to put up with large people hitting me before and such because they barely fit their seat, and when they'd go to lift their arms, their elbow would basically end up hitting me in the chest and a few times the side of the face. Having to deal with that for a few hours, or even several hours (if it were a international flight), is far more annoying than a delayed take off.
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Is that because they're fat, or because they're fat and inconsiderate? The two don't automatically go together, just like being fit and uptight don't automatically go together.

For the record, with my frame, even if I took a hundred pounds off (which, duh, I should) I could still be elbowing people sitting next to me on a plane because, well, I'm tall with wide shoulders. How many body types are people going to get pissy about before they realize that a) an airplane isn't their living room and their airplane seat isn't a La-Z-Boy (something tall people realized long ago) and b) that it's really not a big deal being touched by another human being?
 
My fat ass fits in the seat fine, my broad ass shoulders don't. Yet I sit partially sideways to not discomfort the person next to me.

That said, airline seats are small by nature to cram as much human mass in so that the airlines can turn a profit.

Southwest has seats that are only 17.25 inches wide between the armrest. Everyone stop reading and go measure the distance from elbow to elbow when your arms are hanging by your side and come back to this post. Got it? Good, I bet everyone here averages over 20" at least (save for the anorexics amongst us). Some of us are 24+ inches there.

You are designed by southwest and other low fare airlines to barely fit into the seat to begin with. Southwest has the smallest seats in the business. They are smaller than NYC subway seats, or most (if not all) stadium seats in football arenas.

Heaven forbid you are tall or broad shouldered, forget about just being fat....

And don't you dare try to be that person that tries to sit in my window seat when I preboarded online to claim that extra 2-3 inches so that I can cram my shoulders and head into to get some personal space.
 
I love how all the "power to the corporations" people say about how he can follow the rules or get off. How true. He did get off and then he decided to complain about his experience. The free market is, in fact a double edged sword. If someone has a bad experience, bitches about it, and gets millions of people to agree, looks like that company is fucked. You can't give it out and not be able to take it. Maybe he was too fat, maybe not. Either way, people form opinions on things like companies off of personal experience and others' experiences, so maybe the airline should have been more tactful or careful.
 
Babbster said:
Is that because they're fat, or because they're fat and inconsiderate? The two don't automatically go together, just like being fit and uptight don't automatically go together.

For the record, with my frame, even if I took a hundred pounds off (which, duh, I should) I could still be elbowing people sitting next to me on a plane because, well, I'm tall with wide shoulders. How many body types are people going to get pissy about before they realize that a) an airplane isn't their living room and their airplane seat isn't a La-Z-Boy (something tall people realized long ago) and b) that it's really not a big deal being touched by another human being?
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Honestly, I don' think it was that they were trying to be inconsiderate, but simply that they had really fat arms, and so the range of motion was limited in what they could do.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating "No fat people on planes", just that I think the "purchasing two seats for an extremely large person" rule is perfectly fine. A number of people in my family are excessively obese (I was heading that way, but caught myself and since have been able to remain in pretty good shape thanks to excessive amounts of time at the gym and a generally good diet), and they all have to buy two seats whenever they go anywhere, and I can't remember the last time I heard any of them complain about it.

Maybe it's just me, but when I'm on a plane, I pretty much tuck myself into that seat, keep my seat in its default position so as to not inconvenience the people behind me, tuck my legs in the best I can, and just leave it at that.

Now, I will say that one of the people that was hitting me in the chest one time and was large, also apparently hadn't showered for a week or so, so that's probably adding to my memory of how bad the experience was (and that's obviously the person, not the weight).
 
Powerage said:
I love how all the "power to the corporations" people say about how he can follow the rules or get off. How true. He did get off and then he decided to complain about his experience. The free market is, in fact a double edged sword. If someone has a bad experience, bitches about it, and gets millions of people to agree, looks like that company is fucked. You can't give it out and not be able to take it. Maybe he was too fat, maybe not. Either way, people form opinions on things like companies off of personal experience and others' experiences, so maybe the airline should have been more tactful or careful.
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Honestly, I don't think it would have mattered how Southwest handled it, because ultimately he would have complained about it no matter what. Without having seen the confrontation in person I obviously can't say what it was like, but for some reason the scene from Meet the Parents, where Ben Stiller's character is trying to cram the luggage into the overhead compartment, and they get into that huge confrontation, yeah, that scene keeps coming to my mind regarding this whole ordeal, lol.
 
It seems to me that the people who claim that Smith is in the wrong didn't listen to the podcast. Southwest totally mishandled the entire situation.

What hasn't been mentioned is that when he finally got onto another flight, with two seats, a heavy young woman sat down in the seat next to his extra empty seat. Southwest then proceeded to ask HER to leave her seat. She eventually returned, and when he asked her what happened, she told him that a SW rep. told her that she should think about buying a second seat in the future. Essentially, the rep. pulled the fat woman aside to inform her that she was fat.

There are situations where it is necessary to ask someone to leave the flight, but if you're going to do so, you had better consider your customer's dignity. Especially if they're famous.
 
ToastyBread said:
Now, he himself has stated that he normally prefers two seats because it's more comfortable, which means that he's very much pushing it to be in one seat. I don't know how many people here have had the experience of sitting next to a fairly large person in one seat, but it isn't comfortable: sure, they can *technically* fit in the seat next to mine, but then usually their arms hang over into adjacent seats, etc. I once had to sit next to such a person, and while sleeping their elbow and arm kept hitting me in the chest and head the entire flight, until finally I asked that they not sleep because of what it was resulting in.
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I will say that I'm a big guy @ 6'3 and pretty heavy, but my knees push up against the back of the seat in front of me because of how tall I am, and my shoulders are fairly wide that I have to take a window seat usually and lean against the side. If I sit in the aisle my shoulder/elbow usually hits the cart that rolls by unless I'm leaning towards the middle.

Similar to what Babbster said though, I try to be as considerate as I can to the people next to me, which usually results in me getting no sleep / shitty flight cause I'm trying to make sure I'm not pissing them off. But I'll always be too tall/wide for planes. Unless I start buying first-class but I can't afford that shiz.

Planes are just too damn small :p ...
 
And this is why I prefer to drive wherever I go.

I love to drive to begin with. I could just drive all day long if I could, only having to stop a few hours here and there to eat or at the very least stretch my legs and use the bathroom. So I have no problem with that.

There was a time when flying would've been a great convenience, but honestly, its not worth the headache anymore, IF the bullcrap you have to do now to fly is as bad as it sounds. Arriving a couple HOURS early for your flight just to make it through all the privacy invading security checks, making all my stuff conform to what is deemed safe to take onboard, then being told I have to pay for a second seat because even though I'm one person, I'm too big for a plane that fits hundreds of people and their luggage? And then to top that off, finding out some of my stuff has been taken because I didn't carry it on with me? Add in the fact that I'm thousands of feet in the air in a pressurized tube with no escape that doesn't involve landing at my destination or potentially dying doesn't sit well with me. I like having options, like the option to turn around and go back home.

Yeah I'm gonna have to pass and say no thank you. I will drive in my full sized sedan that fits me like a king and I will enjoy the scenery on the way. Maybe I'll find something interesting to stop off at on the way (like a Lion's Den) that I obviously wouldn't if I were flying. I like driving long distances, by myself especially. Its about the most peace and quiet I get anymore. So other than the significant difference in travel time, I don't see a reason why a person like me would even be interested in flying. At least my car won't tell me I'm too fat to drive. Then again it can seat six to begin with. So maybe I am. :eek:
 
SamuraiInBlack said:
And this is why I prefer to drive wherever I go.
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Even the ole Greyhound is a lot more comfortable than an airplane. I've ridden from Baltimore to Portland that way, and while it obviously took a lot longer than flying I didn't have any complaints about my comfort. It also didn't smell as bad as I'd always heard, but then I don't remember any babies and the rest stops were frequent enough that I don't think anyone on any of my buses on that trip had to drop a deuce in the bus toilet.

Of course, there are people who have to ride planes because of business-related time constraints, but I suspect that most folks who are doing more occasional travel would find a bus or train with a good book or two a more pleasant experience than all the ancillary nonsense one has to go through dealing with an airplane trip.
 
Fharakin said:
I am 6'6" 285lbs and around 14% body fat. I wear a 58 long in a suit, my shoulders alone put the hurt on the seat next to me.

You want me to buy an extra seat? How about I buy 3 seats since my legs don't fit either? That way the guy in front of me can't jack his damn seat into my knees.
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I hear that - I'm same height, 248lbs, about the same body fat with a slim build. I don't fly, period, and dread the day someone tells me I have to.

Fourteen months ago, I took the bus to Vancouver to buy a car. Spend 23 hours in that thing. I don't know how I did it... couldn't sleep at all because I wasn't comfortable in any sense of the word. My knees were up against the seat in front even before the occupant tried to recline it. By the time I got to Vancouver I was in considerable pain. I can't imagine any plane seat I could afford would be any better.

SamuraiInBlack said:
And this is why I prefer to drive wherever I go.
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Amen - I'd rather drive a couple extra days and be comfortable than get there in a hurry and deal with the sheer agony of a seat too small.
 
Buying an airplane ticket should be like buying deli meat. You pay by the pound. Both for yourself and your luggage. Are you a horse jockey who weighs 65 lbs and only has a 10 lb carry on? Your ticket is only $75. Are you a 350lb ochre fat mammoth with 200 lbs of luggage? your ticket costs $550. Want a cheaper ticket price? Lose weight, either in luggage or body.

Seems like a simple, fair system to me.
 
he has all the time and energy for this bitching why not go to the damn gym and do some exercise instead

I hate how its ok now to be fat just because everyone else is

if you weigh over 100kgs and youre not a bodybuilder you need to get to a gym.
 
tdisen said:
It seems to me that the people who claim that Smith is in the wrong didn't listen to the podcast. Southwest totally mishandled the entire situation.
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You mean he wouldn't exaggerate and his words are the exact truth of the matter as it happened? I want to live in your world.

In the end, no matter how much he tries to start shit, nothing is going to change. Southwest will not alter their policy, people won't all of a sudden stop flying SW because of a devotion to a niche director, and he'll probably keep flying them in a few months when everyone has forgotten about it. It just isn't that big of a deal.
 
sc3252 said:
I don't like it when people are overflowing in there seat, but the air lines need to have "fat" seats for people over weight. I think its a scam to make them buy two seats since they probably will still be siting next to a person who is now unhappy.
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There is, it's called a cruise ship. Or first class (doesn't apply to Southwest...but you're Kevin Smith, I'm sure you have a few bucks, and probably could have the movie studios pay for the flight anyways)

Seriously, can't fit into those seats, then get the pay for two seats worth of room, everyone who has some oversized object they want to bring as carry on has to do that so why not people too? Seriously oversized seats? Do you realize what can of worms that would open? "Umm Excuse me, I'm feeling a bit bloated today... can I get one of those extra wide seats please"

Besides the point why is this even a news story here?

Kevin Smith? Nah
Southwest? Nah
Fat people? Possibly... but nah

oh yeah.. because he used twitter!! *sigh*
 
Southwest should have larger seats somewhere on the plane for larger people, and charge a NOMINAL fee for it. (Like $10-$15) Without a policy like this, there was NO WAY Southwest could have politely handled this. Also, Kevin Smith is definitely soaking up as much attention as he can get... he's lost a lot of star power.

When you order your tickets, you they should make you aware if your waist is over size 42 (for example), you need to purchase an upgrade to your seat. If the person doesn't fit in a regular seat and that person didn't order the upgrade ahead of time, they will have no one to blame but themselves.

Bigger seats on the entire plane wouldn't work... I don't want to have to pay a large increase in my ticket prices because they have to decrease seat count by 30% because of an abnormally large person. Squeezing large people into seats isn't going to work... I don't want to feel like someone is infringing on my space for a multiple hour flight. Marginally higher prices to have one of a handful of larger seats on a plane is the best solution.
 
AceGoober said:
Kevin is completely in the right. SouthWest certainly handled the situation rudely.
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That's neither here nor there, I was specifically commenting on the fact that overly large (that's p.c. for fat people ;)) passengers thinking they're being abused for being told to buy two seats is silly.
 
Babbster said:
Funny, I was under the impression that it was "ok" to be whatever you want, assuming it's not against the law.
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I suppose that depends on where we end up with health care.

When the tax payer is paying for your medical bills, we might start to care that the two biggest killers in this country are sugar and fat.

Kaiser Permanente has been running a bunch of ads based on lifestyle for the last few years. Why, because they have to pay out less on fit people that wear sunscreen.

If this discussion gets this far based on someone asking to take the flight he had bought tickets for, just imagine what will happen if the IRS puts a line for BMI on the 1040.
 
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