Kingwin or Dangerden - BASICS

D

dekard

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Messages
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I'm just debating the differences between the Kingwin AWC-1, for about $89 from Newegg. Once its been upgraded with a 120mm fan and a better pump you'll have a VGA + CPU cooler for a fantastic price.

Then I started looking at the dangerden stuff, his basic kits start at $165 and no doubt the quality is much higher. But I'd have to buy a add-on VGA cooler to equal the features of the Kingwin.

Sigh... i hate decisions like this..

My main interest is quietness, I'm thrilled with the oc's I've achieved with stock air (Athlon 64 1.8ghz stock @ 2.65ghz). VGA cooling is already handled by a Zalman 700cu cooler, silent and effective on my 6800 Ultra. From what I've read it seems either one would be sufficient for my modest needs. I guess I'm just asking just how bad the Kingwin stuff is... Or maybe my question is just how good the dangerden stuff is. Thoughts?
 
Kingwin=same noise, worst temps, cheaper.

dangerden=same or less noise depending fan you using, probably a few nexus will help.
better temps, more expensive, and looks good.
 
how about I make you a water cooling system out of some old hose and a few pieces of copper. Charge you $20 for it...
 
J-Pepper said:
how about I make you a water cooling system out of some old hose and a few pieces of copper. Charge you $20 for it...
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Ahh yes, humor from people with jacked up sigs..
 
my sig is just a picture :eek:

but seriously.. why watercool?
If you are on air and your rig is fine, why do you need to watercool unless it's to show off? If it is to show off, then forget about performance and buy anything with water written on it... if, on the otherhand, it is for performance... well... if you can't afford it, don't do it until you can... water cooling is usually kinda simple, you get what you pay for.

You want cheap.. you'll get cheap.
 
J-Pepper said:
my sig is just a picture :eek:

but seriously.. why watercool?
If you are on air and your rig is fine, why do you need to watercool unless it's to show off? If it is to show off, then forget about performance and buy anything with water written on it... if, on the otherhand, it is for performance... well... if you can't afford it, don't do it until you can... water cooling is usually kinda simple, you get what you pay for.

You want cheap.. you'll get cheap.
Click to expand...
What a wonderful helpful answer. Are you trying to drive away all the new folks or what. I don't know what got your skirt all tied in a knot, but you really need to chill.....................;)
 
so....if you're happy with your present OC on stock air, then why not move to aftermarket air, and a quieter heatsink-fan combo, rather than jump all the way to water? sir cooling really does offer better performance/price, and might very well be adequate for your needs.

ultra performance water cooling costs extra. ultra quiet watercooling costs extra. middle of the road watercooling can give you temp improvements, or some noise improvements, however you can probably get the same cooling as stock air, and maintain your current overcloock, with much less noise using a good air cooler.

as for what J-Pepper is saying......he seems to be watercooling largely for looks and because he can. his goals differ so widely from mine that i would have to dislike him, if it wasn't for his taste in cars. i just don't understand why he calls a 350Z a "fairlady" since that name died with the noble 300 series.....
 
DFI Daishi said:
as for what J-Pepper is saying......he seems to be watercooling largely for looks and because he can. his goals differ so widely from mine that i would have to dislike him, if it wasn't for his taste in cars. i just don't understand why he calls a 350Z a "fairlady" since that name died with the noble 300 series.....
Click to expand...

Glad i'm making waves :D

btw.. i'm chinese and the oriental market still names them Fairlady.. old habits die hard I guess.

p.s. I do cool for performance too you know but only on the component I need the best performance for.. if you need any reminders.. i'm running a Storm, DDC, 3/8" with water/zerex combo and no dye mated to a heatercore style dual rad and a pair of performance papst that are kept at low voltages for low noise at idle but at full speed for load. I just think ultra-high cooling performance on the GPU et al is not important.. so I water cool those for looks. ;)
 
Bevous said:
What a wonderful helpful answer. Are you trying to drive away all the new folks or what. I don't know what got your skirt all tied in a knot, but you really need to chill.....................;)
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dude, he's part of the A-C crowd.

shots across the bow are a regular occurance between euro/import users and domestic/big-bore users. that's part of what makes this forum so much fun.

the kingwin kit is pretty lousy in any measure other than ease of use. cooling performance, low-noise performance, or looks, and it's bottom of the barrel, along with the vast majority of watercooling kits out there.

if you want to have fun talking with people like J-Pepper, then you need to learn about this strange thing called "subtlety" and this humourous device called "sarchasm." after you have mastered these techniques, then you can engage in enjoyable exchanges with other members who hold fundamentally different viewpoint from yourself.
 
J-Pepper said:
p.s. I do cool for performance too you know but only on the component I need the best performance for.. if you need any reminders.. i'm running a Storm, DDC, 3/8" with water/zerex combo and no dye mated to a heatercore style dual rad and a pair of performance papst that are kept at low voltages for low noise at idle but at full speed for load. I just think ultra-high cooling performance on the GPU et al is not important.. so I water cool those for looks. ;)
Click to expand...
and i'm running a power-hungry pelt cooler on my CPU (usually) and high-flow GPU waterblock in the same loop, because i don't want to have another pump.

when i comes to performanc-oriented cooling, there's moderately cost effective (storm) and then there's dimishing returns (pelt).

all in all, pelt doen't make a lot of sense from a gain/cost perspective. i had to try it, and now i will stick with it TO THE HILT, because i am stubborn and unwilling to abandon my investment.

and just by the by.....i'm a canadian of finnish and german descent. i just happen to like a certain clan-tech assault mech. :)
 
Sarcasm is a staple diet for anyone with a sense of humour over on this side of the pond.. sometimes I wonder if it is those on the otherside who need to chill more as they sometimes seem to take sarcasm as literal meaning! :D :p

Tried pelt too... very good cooling but not for me. For one, it was too noisy having a powerful pump and needing powerful fans and secondly, for the investment I put into it, a little more and I could've gone and got a second user and well looked after phase-change unit... :rolleyes: So i know what you mean about sticking to it, I moved on as I had a sibling to pass it down too so it didn't seem that much of a waste.

Enjoying my 'cooling for bling' much more atm ;)
 
DFI Daishi said:
dude, he's part of the A-C crowd.

shots across the bow are a regular occurance between euro/import users and domestic/big-bore users. that's part of what makes this forum so much fun.

the kingwin kit is pretty lousy in any measure other than ease of use. cooling performance, low-noise performance, or looks, and it's bottom of the barrel, along with the vast majority of watercooling kits out there.

if you want to have fun talking with people like J-Pepper, then you need to learn about this strange thing called "subtlety" and this humourous device called "sarchasm." after you have mastered these techniques, then you can engage in enjoyable exchanges with other members who hold fundamentally different viewpoint from yourself.
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Basicly we call people like that butt heads where I come from, but to eaches own I guess........ :eek:
 
Bevous said:
Basicly we call people like that butt heads where I come from, but to eaches own I guess........ :eek:
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if you don't have to do it already, then one day you are going to have to deal with butt heads. you can either get mad and rude at them, or beat them at their own game.

for myself, i am widely considered to be an asshole. i don't care. if someone is saying something dumb, then they are fair game for mockery. if they are too immature to either take the scorn, or fire something witty back, that's their problem, not mine.

i kind of suspect the J-Pepper has a somewhat similar take on the matter.
 
DFI Daishi said:
if you don't have to do it already, then one day you are going to have to deal with butt heads. you can either get amd and rude at them, or beat them at their own game.

for myself, i am widely considered to be an asshole. i don't care. if someone is saying something dumb, then they are fair game for mockery. if they are too immature to either take the scorn, or fire something witty back, that's their problem, not mine.

i kind of suspect the J-Pepper has a somewhat similar take on the matter.
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... :D

edit: now this has gotten widely OT, however much I enjoy this delightful banter I reckon the OP is getting rather irate or confused as to where is post dissappeared to.

Back on topic.. IMO.. you should save wait a bit longer (you've already waited this long, however long it may be) and save up some more cash and do it properly.

If you dan't want to part with the amount of money a decent set-up is going to cost, then it's really up to you... but you're the sort of person who'll probably be back asking 'how do I improve my Kingwin setup?" whereby most people would reply "buy DD, swiftech, etc et al"
 
Boy I can see that the children cant even play nice for a little while. Time to spank them and put them to bed without dinner................ :D
 
Bevous said:
What a wonderful helpful answer. Are you trying to drive away all the new folks or what. I don't know what got your skirt all tied in a knot, but you really need to chill.....................;)
Click to expand...
lol.. thanks! I dunno if J-p didn't like the font I posted in or what. I've been away from my computer for a bit so I'll finally be replying to the posts here.
 
DFI Daishi said:
so....if you're happy with your present OC on stock air, then why not move to aftermarket air, and a quieter heatsink-fan combo, rather than jump all the way to water? sir cooling really does offer better performance/price, and might very well be adequate for your needs.

ultra performance water cooling costs extra. ultra quiet watercooling costs extra. middle of the road watercooling can give you temp improvements, or some noise improvements, however you can probably get the same cooling as stock air, and maintain your current overcloock, with much less noise using a good air cooler.

as for what J-Pepper is saying......he seems to be watercooling largely for looks and because he can. his goals differ so widely from mine that i would have to dislike him, if it wasn't for his taste in cars. i just don't understand why he calls a 350Z a "fairlady" since that name died with the noble 300 series.....
Click to expand...
I've been building my own systems for 14 years and I've never tried watercooling. It seemed like it was due time and I liked the fact I was getting a huge selection of parts (even though the quality may be dubious) for such a low price. I'll tinker with this kit till I understand wc well and then I'll move to a proper solution. Or I may not, depending on how much or little performance I get. BTW, thanks for posting. :)
 
J-Pepper said:
If you dan't want to part with the amount of money a decent set-up is going to cost, then it's really up to you... but you're the sort of person who'll probably be back asking 'how do I improve my Kingwin setup?" whereby most people would reply "buy DD, swiftech, etc et al"
Click to expand...
To be honest, I'm not really sure if I want to put the money into WC'ing... Consider this an experiment to round out my computer knowledge. Time will tell..

BTW, chill out man... this is an international board with posters from everywhere. If you are 'making waves' it means people are gettting splashed.
 
The Kingwin kit is old. You want this kit, which has battery backup and an improved water pump:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=202&products_id=2569

I've used this kit in 2 rigs. If you relocate the radiator, it does an OK job. I've moved up to a Swiftech setup, but this gave me good experience, and it's not nearly as intimidating as the new setup I'm currently building.

Here are some pics of the rigs I've used it in:

SideProfile.jpg


RightShot.jpg


120mmRadiatorSideShot.jpg


WhereWiresHideReservoir.jpg


MiniGamer120mmRadiator.jpg


120mmradiator.jpg


80mmradiator.jpg


Reservoir.jpg
 
dekard said:
I've been building my own systems for 14 years and I've never tried watercooling. It seemed like it was due time and I liked the fact I was getting a huge selection of parts (even though the quality may be dubious) for such a low price. I'll tinker with this kit till I understand wc well and then I'll move to a proper solution. Or I may not, depending on how much or little performance I get. BTW, thanks for posting. :)
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well, i can kind of see where you are coming from at this point.....

i guess one final thing to take into account, since you don't seem to want to spend a whole lot on watercooling, is that you might want to have a backup machine handy, and some cash on hand, if and when you decide to go for it.

hopefull, the money will be for odds and ends that you realize that you forgot when you did your shopping, and the backup machine will be to post questions and send e-mails if setup ends up taking longer than expected.

if things don't go so well, it's good to have a plan "B", especially the first time out. there have been quite a few times when i have been glad to have my reliable old powermac sitting beside my PC, so that i could at least take care of essentials.
 
@ MassiveOverkill: inthe fourth pic, there is an odd, semi-circular, copper heatsink. it looks almost like an old zalman flowerbed cooler, turned on it's side. what is it?
 
DFI Daishi said:
well, i can kind of see where you are coming from at this point.....

i guess one final thing to take into account, since you don't seem to want to spend a whole lot on watercooling, is that you might want to have a backup machine handy, and some cash on hand, if and when you decide to go for it.

hopefull, the money will be for odds and ends that you realize that you forgot when you did your shopping, and the backup machine will be to post questions and send e-mails if setup ends up taking longer than expected.

if things don't go so well, it's good to have a plan "B", especially the first time out. there have been quite a few times when i have been glad to have my reliable old powermac sitting beside my PC, so that i could at least take care of essentials.
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Daishi, thanks for the suggestion. I've seen the light and already done this. Besides my 'hers' system which is about 3 feet away I've got my laptop and my office machine. And extra cash is handled by VISA... Its everywhere I want to be..
 
BTW, the kit came in yesterday and I'm done for now with the installation. Everything went well with the exception of the fact that my 6800 Ultra wouldn't accept either one of the mounting clips for the water block. I've been using a Zalman 700-alcu and I can modify one of the brackets to work, something I'll probably do in the next few days.

The only other remaining thing is the need for a thermally conduction adhesive. I want to semi-permanantly mounth the temperature sensor to the side of the heat disperser on my Athlon 64. That's about the only place I can think of to put it. In fact, I've got some thermal tape, I may just use that for now.

Before I tell you about the results I should mention I'm running oc'd from 1.8ghz to 2.6ghz on my venice core. My load temps dropped about 8c from 54c to 46c. Additionally the system is much quieter now than it was with stock air. All in all, its now obvious to me that WC is the only proper way to cool a computer and certainly the only way to oc one. And I LOVE the idea that wc gear is transferable to any other computer I may buy in the future.

All this is with a tremendous need to improve the system. The rear radiator is currently mounted near the cpu and under the power supply. Which of course means I'm drawing warm air into that radiator which MUST be driving up the temps a bit. I'd love to relocate it in the lower front section of the system where it has access to that lovely, cool air. Have you done this and noticed a net drop in temps? Also the upper radiator needs to be relocated and cooled by a 120mm fan which I have yet to buy.

So, I'm happy with a 8c drop in load temps and lower temps. I'm sure that once I've done the tweaking needed I'll be able to see even further lowered temps and hopefully see a increase in my ability to oc. :)

Thanks again for all the input!
 
Well people will tell you buy expensive kit and sell yourself, but bro for $115 you can get an excellent water cooling kit name Thermaltake Big Water SE.

Here what temperature i am getting with my Opteron 165 @ 2.8

Idle 30C

Load 43C

and it looks nice as heaven and comes with excellent accessories you need for good looking water cooling kit. Oh did i mentioned it is quite as whisper 18dba, and the main thing there is no way in hell you will get leakage.

I know you can buy better water cooling kit which will give you 10C difference, but for what price $250.
 
Well you're going to get about the same performance from the Kingwin kit if you use a Bigwater SE (and at a greater cost w/o a GPU block). I wouldn't recommend moving from one entry level kit to another, you'll just end up disappointed.
 
CoW]8(0) said:
Well you're going to get about the same performance from the Kingwin kit if you use a Bigwater SE (and at a greater cost w/o a GPU block). I wouldn't recommend moving from one entry level kit to another, you'll just end up disappointed.
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I agree. I checked newegg and immediately noticed the missing GPU block. But, its a much nicer looking kit and I love the looks of the rear radiator \ fan combo unit. If I remember correctly the Big Water SE needed a 120mm fan mount which is something my case doesn't have.

Besides, I like the fact that I'm getting a 80mm radiator \ fan AND a 120m (with 80mm fan) in the Kingwin kit. I plan to purchase a basic 120mm fan and remount the 120mm radiator for improved performance. Anyway, I'm very happy with my initial results. Thanks for all the input. Oh, one more thing, I'm definately planning on moving to an upgraded kit in the future. After seeing how easy and effective wc is I'm very interested in moving to some higher quality gear in the near future. It just looks so cool!
 
Looks like you guys did not check my temperatures.

Idle = 30C

Load = 43C

Opteron 165 Dual core 1.8ghz @ 2.8ghz


if you think this is not impresive then tell me your temperatures with dual core overclock to 2.8ghz with expensive water cooling.
 
annaconda said:
Looks like you guys did not check my temperatures.

Idle = 30C

Load = 43C

Opteron 165 Dual core 1.8ghz @ 2.8ghz


if you think this is not impresive then tell me your temperatures with dual core overclock to 2.8ghz with expensive water cooling.
Click to expand...
I'm not experienced enough to be truely impressed, but that is much better than I'm getting right now. Tho, I've still got a lot of tweaking to do.
 
annaconda said:
Looks like you guys did not check my temperatures.

Idle = 30C

Load = 43C

Opteron 165 Dual core 1.8ghz @ 2.8ghz


if you think this is not impresive then tell me your temperatures with dual core overclock to 2.8ghz with expensive water cooling.
Click to expand...
The absolute values of you temperatures mean nothing.

And what do you use for your full load? Your temp delta is a little high (13C), so it's not very impressive at all.
 
CoW]8(0) said:
The absolute values of you temperatures mean nothing.

And what do you use for your full load? Your temp delta is a little high (13C), so it's not very impressive at all.
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Sandra 2005 Burn In for 30 minutes, Prime95 for 30 minutes. Temperature delta is high (13c), and it is not very impressive. Then tell me your temperature with DUAL core CPU at 2.8ghz with expensive water cooling.
 
CoW]8(0) said:
The absolute values of you temperatures mean nothing.

And what do you use for your full load? Your temp delta is a little high (13C), so it's not very impressive at all.
Click to expand...
Besides, motherboard / on die temp sensors are notoriously inaccurate.
And I'm sorry, but I won't trust my system to Tt cooling again. The fan on my Volcano 9 died overnight. The darned FAN! And you're gonna let them put water in your computer? :p
 
$120 DD setup without a GPU block
Maze4 A64 block (yeah not the best)
BIX w/ 120mm Sunon
3/8" tubing CSP MAG 12v pump

2.44Ghz @ 1.65vcore 70f ambient - 32-33c idle 39-41c load
2.0Ghz @ 1.475vcore 70f ambient - 29c idle 34c load
2.36Ghz @ 1.525vcore 70f ambient - 30c idle 36-37c load

rig in sig. not as hot a dual core...but holds it own with 130nm right now sandra says 89w core power.
 
annaconda said:
Looks like you guys did not check my temperatures.

Idle = 30C

Load = 43C

Opteron 165 Dual core 1.8ghz @ 2.8ghz


if you think this is not impresive then tell me your temperatures with dual core overclock to 2.8ghz with expensive water cooling.
Click to expand...


Dual core at 1.525V.

Storm - HE120.2 - DDC - Papst fans at 33% (roughly 4V)

Idle... 23deg, load one core (prime95 ~12hrs) 31deg, load two cores (prime95 ~8hrs) 38deg
time to idle (from both cores loaded in prime) < 5 secs.
 
J-Pepper said:
Dual core at 1.525V.

Storm - HE120.2 - DDC - Papst fans at 33% (roughly 4V)

Idle... 23deg, load one core (prime95 ~12hrs) 31deg, load two cores (prime95 ~8hrs) 38deg
time to idle (from both cores loaded in prime) < 5 secs.
Click to expand...
Do you have a rough cost of that gear? I'd love to see those temps.
 
dekard said:
Do you have a rough cost of that gear? I'd love to see those temps.
Click to expand...

Not really, as i've been cooling for ages I have spare parts for which I reuse... the only new thing was the Storm block.

But if you got to an inline webstore and check it out..

Plus, i'm from the UK where the HE120.2 rads are a lot cheaper because they are made in the UK and shipping is cheaper too because we are a small country! :p
 
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