Large Hadron Collider Results Excite Scientists

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I clicked this link fully expecting a story about scientist getting excited over a couple sub-atomic particles that looked like boobies. Thanks to LeninGHOLA for the link!

The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) has picked up tantalising fluctuations which might - or might not - be hints of the sought-after Higgs boson particle. But scientists stress caution over these "excess events", because similar wrinkles have been detected before only to disappear after further analysis.
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Yanno, I went through undergrad in astrophysics and graduate school as a physicist, but things like this

which might - or might not - be hints of the sought-after Higgs boson particle.
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make me SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fucking glad the super conducting collider project fell through and it isn't the broke ass US government funding this project.

Without the Higgs, physicists cannot explain why particles have mass.
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Don't know why this can't just be cataloged under "because that's the way things are", in fact I have to say the concept that there needs to be a particle that gives all particles mass sounds pretty silly. Standard Theory be damned, why can't mass simply be one of those fundamental things that exist in the universe that doesn't require something else MORE fundamental that is the cause of it?
 
sfsuphysics said:
Don't know why this can't just be cataloged under "because that's the way things are", in fact I have to say the concept that there needs to be a particle that gives all particles mass sounds pretty silly. Standard Theory be damned, why can't mass simply be one of those fundamental things that exist in the universe that doesn't require something else MORE fundamental that is the cause of it?
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QFT. And if they find this particle, they'll just try to figure out what THAT's made out of, and so and and so forth.
 
TheGamerZ said:
QFT. And if they find this particle, they'll just try to figure out what THAT's made out of, and so and and so forth.
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It's called job security. So long as the scientists have one more thing to explore, they'll bring home another paycheck. :p
 
sfsuphysics said:
Don't know why this can't just be cataloged under "because that's the way things are", in fact I have to say the concept that there needs to be a particle that gives all particles mass sounds pretty silly. Standard Theory be damned, why can't mass simply be one of those fundamental things that exist in the universe that doesn't require something else MORE fundamental that is the cause of it?
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How did you spend all that time studying the field and still completely miss its point?
 
I wonder, what would happen if they did find this particle?

Could we make laser beam cannons? :D
 
sfsuphysics said:
Yanno, I went through undergrad in astrophysics and graduate school as a physicist, but things like this


make me SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fucking glad the super conducting collider project fell through and it isn't the broke ass US government funding this project.


Don't know why this can't just be cataloged under "because that's the way things are", in fact I have to say the concept that there needs to be a particle that gives all particles mass sounds pretty silly. Standard Theory be damned, why can't mass simply be one of those fundamental things that exist in the universe that doesn't require something else MORE fundamental that is the cause of it?
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Wait seriously? Your entirely missing the point, how did you get a BS in astrophysics and possibly ask those questions.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Standard Theory be damned, why can't mass simply be one of those fundamental things that exist in the universe that doesn't require something else MORE fundamental that is the cause of it?
Click to expand...

I cannot stress enough the benefits of having an open mind that wishes to progress as much as possible.

If you really think about it, everything we know is literally our imagined interpretation of everything. If our reality isn't "real" in the sense we perceive it, then why should anything be.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Yanno, I went through undergrad in astrophysics and graduate school as a physicist, but things like this


make me SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fucking glad the super conducting collider project fell through and it isn't the broke ass US government funding this project.


Don't know why this can't just be cataloged under "because that's the way things are", in fact I have to say the concept that there needs to be a particle that gives all particles mass sounds pretty silly. Standard Theory be damned, why can't mass simply be one of those fundamental things that exist in the universe that doesn't require something else MORE fundamental that is the cause of it?
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Because they are all looking for the same denominator - which is pure energy of varying states. Energy by it's nature doesn't exhibit any mass properties, but like you said; it is, what it is.
 
Kalabalana said:
I cannot stress enough the benefits of having an open mind that wishes to progress as much as possible.

If you really think about it, everything we know is literally our imagined interpretation of everything. If our reality isn't "real" in the sense we perceive it, then why should anything be.
Click to expand...

Physics is really only limited by our imagination and our ability to perceve what can't be seen. (In theory lol)
 
Steve, those aren't your normal run of the mill particle boobies...they're excited particle boobies! Look at those....er...nevermind... :p

Steve said:
I clicked this link fully expecting a story about scientist getting excited over a couple sub-atomic particles that looked like boobies. Thanks to LeninGHOLA for the link!
Click to expand...
 
Kalabalana said:
I cannot stress enough the benefits of having an open mind that wishes to progress as much as possible.

If you really think about it, everything we know is literally our imagined interpretation of everything. If our reality isn't "real" in the sense we perceive it, then why should anything be.
Click to expand...

I disagree completely and hate the saying that "perception is reality". No, it's not. Some of an individuals personal perception is unfounded or peer assumption...but... being an intelligent animal, I know certain things are as solid as rock (fact). I don't imagine or perceive the sun as being where it is (It's reality that it's there). I don't perceive my parents as being my parents. I don't just assume evolution took place either. I guess my point (although weak) is that there is obviously a baseline. Yes, the newer stuff can get cloudy and it's left open to perception but there's always a baseline.

If you can't find the baseline, plead insanity if you're ever convicted of a crime, because you're not aware of reality (what's real and what's just your imagination/assumption)...lol




Disclaimer:
1. Not saying you personally.
2. This is only my opinion (what?...lol)
3. This post is for educational purposes only.
 
Steve said:
The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) has picked up tantalising fluctuations which might - or might not - be hints of the sought-after Higgs boson particle.
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They haven't found it yet, otherwise we all would have been pulled into a black hole by now.
 
Clicked 'Comments' to see armchair physicists arguing...leaving satisfied.
 
nOrVow said:
I wonder, what would happen if they did find this particle?

Could we make laser beam cannons? :D
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pblsh...

I want the Star Trek transporter. And 7 of 11 while their at it... In here tight arsed spandex uniform thing with her Borg implants and sexy high heals and her...

...ummmm. yeah...like that.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Don't know why this can't just be cataloged under "because that's the way things are", in fact I have to say the concept that there needs to be a particle that gives all particles mass sounds pretty silly. Standard Theory be damned, why can't mass simply be one of those fundamental things that exist in the universe that doesn't require something else MORE fundamental that is the cause of it?
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They would class that as "religion" :p
 
Cali3350 said:
Wait seriously? Your entirely missing the point, how did you get a BS in astrophysics and possibly ask those questions.
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BS in Astro, MS in Applied... yeah that shit is beyond what school teaches you unless you go directly into that particular field as a slav..er research grad (which I hated) I mean I took a class in GR, I took a class in QFT, I took I classes in QM, EM, Elementary Particles, amongst a few others all during my graduate studies none of which stressed any particular need of a HIggs, or hell even mentioned it. Seriously it floats in the same area as the graviton, it doesn't need to exist for you to understand/do all other physics.

But who knows when I was school, a little more work was needed, you couldn't sit at home reading wikipedia and get an honorary physics degree. Times have changed I'm sure

DeathPrincess said:
They would class that as "religion" :p
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Nah, physics is full of fundamental particles, whether its electrons, quarks, neutrinos, or photons. Nothing really "religious" about that being the "just because that's the way it is" moment... I feel mass falls in that same category, sure it'd be great if I'm wrong, but I'm not going to worry about that every time some graph pops out a random spike at CERN and an article gets posted about how we may/maynot have found a Higgs Boson.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Nothing really "religious" about that being the "just because that's the way it is" moment... I feel mass falls in that same category, sure it'd be great if I'm wrong...
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How can you be wrong about not giving a shit about the underlying cause? I wasn't aware "i don't know and don't care" was a hypothesis... :rolleyes:
 
5 sigma?

Manufacturing using 6 sigma at a starting point, Boeing for example uses 9 sigma on many conponents. But I find it interesting that when my company is making plastic bottles we aim for higher level of quality then is used to decide if something is a discovery or not.

I know there is not a direct comparison between the uses but since they are both basically a measure of accuracy I find it interesting.
 
Steve said:
I clicked this link fully expecting a story about scientist getting excited over a couple sub-atomic particles that looked like boobies
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At least you didn't use the standard lame-assed "black holes" fear-mongering. Even if it is silly and people should know it's a joke... There are a lot of people who distrust scientists and actively try to discredit them.
 
A little dyslexia in when scanning that headline makes it downright hilarious. :)
 
Rune75 said:
At least you didn't use the standard lame-assed "black holes" fear-mongering. Even if it is silly and people should know it's a joke... There are a lot of people who distrust scientists and actively try to discredit them.
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Because it is natural for some people to distrust anyone more intelligent than they are, or as is usually said: "Them scientist folks with their book learnin and big worded talk, that wear white lab coats and glasses, that want to destroy the world with their 'science', which I call black magic." :D
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
5 sigma?

Manufacturing using 6 sigma at a starting point, Boeing for example uses 9 sigma on many conponents. But I find it interesting that when my company is making plastic bottles we aim for higher level of quality then is used to decide if something is a discovery or not.

I know there is not a direct comparison between the uses but since they are both basically a measure of accuracy I find it interesting.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there isn't a direct comparison at all, rofl.
 
nOrVow said:
I wonder, what would happen if they did find this particle?

Could we make laser beam cannons? :D
Click to expand...

The Navy's already doing that. Heck, you've got laser beam cannons in your PC right now.

Understanding the Higgs bosun particle helps us understand how mass works. It may or may not allow us to manipulate mass in ways never thought possible. Would you consider, say, anti-gravity to be useful?

To comment generally on this thread, I have trouble understanding why anybody using a computer to read this forum can question the value of theoretical physics research. Without it, you wouldn't be here.
 
J32P said:
I disagree completely and hate the saying that "perception is reality". No, it's not. Some of an individuals personal perception is unfounded or peer assumption...but... being an intelligent animal, I know certain things are as solid as rock (fact). I don't imagine or perceive the sun as being where it is (It's reality that it's there). I don't perceive my parents as being my parents. I don't just assume evolution took place either. I guess my point (although weak) is that there is obviously a baseline. Yes, the newer stuff can get cloudy and it's left open to perception but there's always a baseline.

If you can't find the baseline, plead insanity if you're ever convicted of a crime, because you're not aware of reality (what's real and what's just your imagination/assumption)...lol
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Yep, your missing something.
Reality is a construct of your imagination, your brain(if that is real) is inside your skull. everything you "see" and "experience" is a virtual reality world inside the computer that is your brain.
existence and reality as you perceive it is the result of electrical activity in your brain.
rock is solid? are you sure about that? is the rock even there? (Think the Matrix).
and you say its solid, what does solid mean? That "rock" is 99.9999999999 vacuous emptiness, and the other part .. we are breaking down to find "something"(Higgs?)
sub atomic particles themselves are only illusions, .. hence why we want to break them down to the point where we find a particle that has mass.
You say you know the sun is there ... do you? what if reality you perceive is a holographic projection of some other reality contained in a single point somewhere else?

There is no baseline.
We KNOW nothing.
We perceive everything.

Physics is the quest to know. .. probably a futile quest but it sure is fun.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Nah, physics is full of fundamental particles, whether its electrons, quarks, neutrinos, or photons. Nothing really "religious" about that being the "just because that's the way it is" moment... I feel mass falls in that same category, sure it'd be great if I'm wrong, but I'm not going to worry about that every time some graph pops out a random spike at CERN and an article gets posted about how we may/maynot have found a Higgs Boson.
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The danger of that thought is that we will stop discovering.

By not being satisfied with the limitations in our current understanding, it motivates the scientist to continue pursuing a better understanding of our universe. And maybe someday, by discovering how mass and gravity works, we could manipulate them to our advantage. Just like how we had to first discover how airflow and pressure works before being able to master them and build an aircraft which is so important today.
 
Such a waste of money that could be spent fixing our economy. Obama is such a terrible president. Sheesh :rolleyes:
 
Funny, no mention of the interesting but hardly surprising events at CERN.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/18/cern_cosmic_ray_gag/

Scientists gagged about the Sun's rays and their effect of Cloud formation.

""I have asked the colleagues to present the results clearly, but not to interpret them," reports veteran science editor Nigel Calder on his blog. Why?

Because, Heuer says, "That would go immediately into the highly political arena of the climate change debate. One has to make clear that cosmic radiation is only one of many parameters.""

Funny thing is, you can be sure that if they found the reverse to be true they'd be screaming at the top of their lungs about it as proof that Global Warming isn't a scam. Oh, sorry they changed it to Climate Change now after being embarrassed scientifically.
 
Hornet said:
The danger of that thought is that we will stop discovering.

By not being satisfied with the limitations in our current understanding, it motivates the scientist to continue pursuing a better understanding of our universe. And maybe someday, by discovering how mass and gravity works, we could manipulate them to our advantage. Just like how we had to first discover how airflow and pressure works before being able to master them and build an aircraft which is so important today.
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That's a pretty big leap to go from saying "maybe mass is fundamental to the universe" to "We will stop discovering". Doubly so considering how mass/gravity works and its interaction with space-time (general relativity) and the fact the standard model doesn't exactly incorporate gravity (in any form whether it's GR or the quantum "graviton").

That said, I never said stop discovering, but you need to make choices as to how much are you willing to spend to test your theory. And I'm not saying feed the hungry with that money or other silly feel good ideas. How many billions were spent looking for the Higgs boson? Well that's money that other science didn't get, money that could fund a LOT of other science. Maybe technologically we're simply not there yet to do it affordably, I mean we can fly to Mars with a manned mission, it just it's too expensive with what we have now, in the future however maybe not so.

Also, I'm a bit rusty on my early 20th century history, but didn't the Wright brothers simply build something that would fly, rather than understand completely how airflow and pressure works?
 
sfsuphysics said:
Yanno, I went through undergrad in astrophysics and graduate school as a physicist, but things like this


make me SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fucking glad the super conducting collider project fell through and it isn't the broke ass US government funding this project.


Don't know why this can't just be cataloged under "because that's the way things are", in fact I have to say the concept that there needs to be a particle that gives all particles mass sounds pretty silly. Standard Theory be damned, why can't mass simply be one of those fundamental things that exist in the universe that doesn't require something else MORE fundamental that is the cause of it?
Click to expand...

Agreed, but the trend of human curiosity trumps what you say.
 
nOrVow said:
I wonder, what would happen if they did find this particle?

Could we make laser beam cannons? :D
Click to expand...

Since they believe it affects the mass of things and has a field effect:

perhaps a decreased mass field
-project around an M1A1 Abrams tank for loading with a pallet jack
-seconds before an impact the object has virtually no mass and therefore little destructive power

or an Increased mass field:
-like the KK drive in Piers Anthony's books, A huge mass is projected before your spaceship and you continuously 'fall' toward it
 
They should instead be trying to figure out how to create a stable fusion reactor. Would be the biggest invention of all mankind.
 
Seriously, at this point, it's the Higgs Boson that is religion until proven otherwise.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Nah, physics is full of fundamental particles, whether its electrons, quarks, neutrinos, or photons. Nothing really "religious" about that being the "just because that's the way it is" moment...
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Since you know particle physics, might I remind you of strong nuclear force...that qualifies as scientifically approved religious belief. (You should know what I am referring to but I am sure many so called arm chair physicist will be scurrying to wikipedia so they can make some witty smartassed comment to reply with.) For everyone else out there...nothing physical would exist without this force.
 
hardware_failure said:
They should instead be trying to figure out how to create a stable fusion reactor. Would be the biggest invention of all mankind.
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You should realize all stable fusion reactors are powered by fission. (The sun and stars as example, but you only obaerve the fusion on the surface because the fission particles are concentrated in the center of mass region). Don't be ashamed though...for some reason, the reality of this seems to elude the 'majority' rule of scientists, much the same as the round earth did just a few hundred years back. Personally, I think 'cold fusion' power was the gimmick they invented to be able to funnel/spend government money to the star wars program that was supposedly 'killed' in the 80's yet is fully in place today. You know...tell everyone we are spending money to create a new technology that can't actually be created therefore no one expects to see any result from the expenditure.
 
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