LCD monitor for gaming.

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outroot

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I recently bought a samsung T240HD to replace my crt since my crt was dieing. I play fast FPS games like quakelive and cod4, and this monitor is completely unacceptable. ~50ms average input lag and horrible ghosting.

I've been looking at monitors like the viewsonic VX2265wm and the samsung 2233rz, and it seems like ghosting is much less of an issue. However, the screen size and resolution of these monitors are smaller than my T240HD.

My question is, would it be worth it for me to buy either of these monitors now, or wait until something better comes out? I guess I consider myself a hardcore gamer and eliminating the ghosting is important to me, but I don't mind waiting ~6months if something better is on the horizon.
 
Buy a good 19-21" CRT off eBay. If you're that hardcore, it'll give you an edge.
 
If you want to keep the same resolution, a BenQ G2400WD is a good choice for low lag and low ghosting. It also has an on/off switch for motion compensation so that you can have fast response in games, but less motion induced inverse ghosting in regular desktop usage.

Two 22" options come to mind as well > LG L227WTG and Dell 2209WA.

The LG is known as one of the fastest panels out there, and the Dell supports 75hz over 1680x1050 with DVI natively and has a high quality IPS panel that is pretty good in terms of ghosting blurring.

Those are some options you might want to explore depending on your needs/wants.
 
My issue is it's hard to know who to trust. I read reviews of monitors and people say "no ghosting or lag!!!" and stuff, but they're wrong. These are the people who are not hardcore gamers, and who have no experienced the greatness that is the CRT.

I looked at the BenQ G2400WD you mentioned, and it seems like it would have the same problem. Here is the comparison of my monitor and the BenQ G2400WA (which from reading the specs, doesn't seem that different):
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=402&p1=3707&ma2=48&mo2=305&p2=2944&ph=1

From that website, you look at some of the viewsonics and that 2233rz I mentioned, and it has considerablely less ghosting.

So I really need someone who knows what a CRT looks like in high paced games and knows of an LCD that matches that kind of quality in the same games.
 
There are pretty much no LCDs that can keep up with a CRT in fast paced games. As of right now your search is more or less pointless -- just get another CRT on the cheap.
 
You can check out the Asus VK246H or VW246H (same monitor, but no webcam) if you are a hardcore gamer. I basically use it to monitor processes on my HTPC. But I have played Fallout 3 on it and I can say that it has much less input lag compared to my NEC 2690WUXi which has 32ms of input lag. I prefer using my NEC though.

My initial impression was that the Asus VK246H had an average input lag of at most 10ms. I also noticed no ghosting effects, however not matter how fast a LCD screen is there is alway some chance of ghosting. It's just a limitation of the general technology.

Prad.de recently did a full review of the Asus VK246H monitor, see link below:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-asus-vk246h.html

It is a very extensive review which probably covers more than what you want to know. But since you are concerned with input, I will just focus on that. Based on 100 screenshots (they do not display all 100 screenshots), roughly 95 displayed 0 (zero) input lag, the remainng images displayed up to 33ms of input lag. Therefore, on average input lag in the Asus VK246H is 1.65ms. 16.67ms of input lag is the equivalent of 1 frame of input lag.

Input lag part of the review:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-asus-vk246h-part12.html#Lag

If you think 1.65ms of input lag is excessive, then look at a good ol' CRT monitor.
 
Thank you JaguarSKX, that is looking very good to me.

I'm not looking for an LCD with NO ghosting (that's not possible right now), just significantly less than what I'm experiencing. There are LCDs that are good enough that you can't really notice, which is what I'm looking for.

If you know of any others, keep listing them. Also, if you know of something new that's coming out, I want to hear that too. What about those 120hz monitors?
 
According to that review linked, the Asus VK246H might actually be what you're looking for.
 
try turning off v sync on your current LCD and see if the mouse lag goes away it did for me and gaming has never been better. I get no tearing or smearing and any other bad effects like some people say when turning off vsync.




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I never played a game in my life with vsync on.

I've been looking more at that Asus VK246H. It talks about low input lag, but that's not what bothers me so much, it's the ghosting. In that article, it talks about it ghosting (the "corona" effect). So I'm guessing this is a monitor I do not want.
 
outroot said:
I never played a game in my life with vsync on.

I've been looking more at that Asus VK246H. It talks about low input lag, but that's not what bothers me so much, it's the ghosting. In that article, it talks about it ghosting (the "corona" effect). So I'm guessing this is a monitor I do not want.
Click to expand...

Likely every LCD monitor you find will have this effect. It was a tough road switching from CRT to LCD for me.
 
The only LCD computer monitors out there that don't really suffer from ghosting and input lag are the 120hz monitors that Nvidia partnered with when they released there 3D glasses. I have the Samsung 2233rz and for gaming its fantastic , little to no blurr (which means little to no ghosting) and the lowest input lag I've experienced in years of gaming on LCDs.

Not cheap however as 400 seems he standard rate for the Samsung/Viewsonic ( I would avoid the Viewsonic version since it seems to have some OSD issues that are pretty lame) .. I would guess if money is really a concern you should just stick with what you have or buy a LCD for general usage and keep the CRT for gaming. I would have considered the Sony 24 inch CRT (FW900 I think) thats so commonly loved on these forums if it didn't cost a fortune to ship and such.
 
Godmachine said:
The only LCD computer monitors out there that don't really suffer from ghosting and input lag are the 120hz monitors that Nvidia partnered with when they released there 3D glasses. I have the Samsung 2233rz and for gaming its fantastic , little to no blurr (which means little to no ghosting) and the lowest input lag I've experienced in years of gaming on LCDs.

Not cheap however as 400 seems he standard rate for the Samsung/Viewsonic ( I would avoid the Viewsonic version since it seems to have some OSD issues that are pretty lame) .. I would guess if money is really a concern you should just stick with what you have or buy a LCD for general usage and keep the CRT for gaming. I would have considered the Sony 24 inch CRT (FW900 I think) thats so commonly loved on these forums if it didn't cost a fortune to ship and such.
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QFT. Although I imagine most competitors are going to start coming out with 120hz monitors soon to compete with the Samsung and Viewsonic offerings.
 
outroot said:
I never played a game in my life with vsync on.

I've been looking more at that Asus VK246H. It talks about low input lag, but that's not what bothers me so much, it's the ghosting. In that article, it talks about it ghosting (the "corona" effect). So I'm guessing this is a monitor I do not want.
Click to expand...

The review made a general statement about poor implementation of "overdrive" to achieve fast response time for all LCD monitors. The review states the "corona effect" is at most slightly visible and you will probably only see it only if you know what you are looking for.

All LCD monitors uses some form of "overdrive" (it called different names by different brands), some are more aggressive than others. The use of "overdrive" allows manufacturers to state whether a TN panel monitor is 2ms or 5ms response time. Switching "overdrive" off would probably slow down a TN panel's response times to 10ms - 12ms.
 
My question would be then, would I notice the ghosting when playing? Or only if I get a camera and take a picture.
 
I did not notice any ghosting when I was playing Fallout 3 on my Asus VK246H during the time I was breaking it in / testing it out for around a total of 10 hours.

Everyone's brain processes the images their eyes transmits to it so some people may see ghosting while others do not. I recall seeing someone play a FPS game sometime ago on a 2ms 22" LCD, he said he did not notice any ghosting, but I certainly did while I watched him play. Maybe he was too focused on the game to notice the ghosting or he really did not notice any ghosting at all.
 
I do everything on a Hitachi Designer Series 37" Ultrathin monitor. Its works well as a pc monitor and everything looks fantastic. I guess some of the more inexpensive lcd monitors tend to have issues, but the higher end ones shouldn't.
 
Romdominance said:
I do everything on a Hitachi Designer Series 37" Ultrathin monitor. Its works well as a pc monitor and everything looks fantastic. I guess some of the more inexpensive lcd monitors tend to have issues, but the higher end ones shouldn't.
Click to expand...

You think larger screens mean less ghosting? o.0
 
I have zero ghosting on this monitor. I have played Crysis/Warhead/FO3 among others at the highest settings at 19x10 with nothing but fantastic views.
I think higher quality lcds mean better picture quality.
 
The G2400WA is an older version of the G2400WD without motion compensation. That would likely be similar to your T240HD as both are 5ms monitors with no RTC. But also the T240HD is known to have high input lag for a TN screen, which makes matters worse.

The V2400W and G2400WD are the same panel so this is more what you would see:

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=402&p1=3707&ma2=48&mo2=365&p2=3386&ph=1

Considering that it and the V2400W are pretty cheap these days, they still make a very good gaming option.

outroot said:
My issue is it's hard to know who to trust. I read reviews of monitors and people say "no ghosting or lag!!!" and stuff, but they're wrong. These are the people who are not hardcore gamers, and who have no experienced the greatness that is the CRT.

I looked at the BenQ G2400WD you mentioned, and it seems like it would have the same problem. Here is the comparison of my monitor and the BenQ G2400WA (which from reading the specs, doesn't seem that different):
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=402&p1=3707&ma2=48&mo2=305&p2=2944&ph=1

From that website, you look at some of the viewsonics and that 2233rz I mentioned, and it has considerablely less ghosting.

So I really need someone who knows what a CRT looks like in high paced games and knows of an LCD that matches that kind of quality in the same games.
Click to expand...
 
There really is a lack of good choices for gaming. I would like a non TN panel, but I really hate taring. My current w2207 is really bothering me. The glossy panel really makes colors appear great, but the panel has larger pixels than I'd like, and seems to a tare quite a bit.

A 24 inch monitor would bring the PPI up, slightly smaller pixels. Lack of a 22 inch option with a higher resolution. I really love how the text looks on my laptop 15.4 inch monitor at 1680x1050.

Anyone know if the Lenovo L220x has any lag issues? It is about what I am looking for.
 
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Intelman said:
There really is a lack of good choices for gaming. I would like a non TN panel, but I really hate taring. My current w2207 is really bothering me. The glossy panel really makes colors appear great, but the panel has larger pixels than I'd like, and seems to a tare quite a bit.

A 24 inch monitor would bring the PPI up, slightly smaller pixels. Lack of a 22 inch option with a higher resolution. I really love how the text looks on my laptop 15.4 inch monitor at 1680x1050.

Anyone know if the Lenovo L220x has any lag issues? It is about what I am looking for.
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Tearing? Have you heard of vsync?
 
JaguarSKX, you have me interested in that Asus monitor. I searched [H] for more opinions and I find a bunch of posts by you. So I Google and find a Tom's Hardware link....Sweat, I think to myself. It was written by you. :/ Either way Zip Zoom Fly has the non webcam version for $205 shipped so I'm gonna grab it. Has to be worth at least $200 I figure. Plus I get a $30 rebate for using eBillme.
 
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j3ff86 said:
Tearing? Have you heard of vsync?
Click to expand...

Sorry I did not mention that I do use vsync. Tearing isn't as much as a problem as the next not being as fine as I'd like. The large pixels sometimes make it seem really jagged. Hence why I am looking at the L220x. There is a real lack of choice for 22 inch monitors at WUXGA. Hell, even 22 inch monitors that will game that are non TN seem hard to find. I cannot decide if the L220x will be a suitable monitor.
 
MetalX said:
JaguarSKX, you have me interested in that Asus monitor. I searched [H] for more opinions and I find a bunch of posts by you. So I Google and find a Tom's Hardware link....Sweat, I think to myself. It was written by you. :/ Either way Zip Zoom Fly has the non webcam version for $205 shipped so I'm gonna grab it. Has to be worth at least $200 I figure. Plus I get a $30 rebate for using eBillme.
Click to expand...

Hmmm.... you mean someone actually read my review???

$205 is a good price. I did hear some people say that eBillme required a Social Security #. If so, then to me that's not worth saving the $30.

Anywaste, hope you enjoy the monitor. The major complaint I had in my THG review was with Batman: The Dark Knight where there were excessive video artifacts. However, it could just be that the DVD version had higher than average compression compared to most DVD movies (it's a long movie). Perhaps the Blu-Ray version will look better, but I don't have a BD player yet...
 
Yeah I read that and figured at least some of it was due to the compression and lack of resolution compared to Blu-Ray. I changed my mind on the rebate and just paid with a card. I didn't even get to the sign up part because I saw you have to wait a few days for the bank transfer to clear in order for the items to ship. It's obviously not the best but for $205 I highly doubt I'd be disappointed for a 24" gamer friendly LCD.
 
I'm using a V2400W and playing QuakeLive on it. No noticable lag at all IMO. Digital Versus is bullshit. Real tests of the V2400W show that it has less than one frame input lag, so basically non existent. Stopwatch photos show that the V2400W is showing the same thing as the test CRT sitting next to it. Mine does have a problem with unevenness in the backlight, so I'm sending it back for a new one. Most people haven't had this problem though.

BTW...what is your name on QL? I would love to do a duel sometime.
 
OverDriven said:
I'm using a V2400W and playing QuakeLive on it. No noticable lag at all IMO. Digital Versus is bullshit. Real tests of the V2400W show that it has less than one frame input lag, so basically non existent. Stopwatch photos show that the V2400W is showing the same thing as the test CRT sitting next to it. Mine does have a problem with unevenness in the backlight, so I'm sending it back for a new one. Most people haven't had this problem though.

BTW...what is your name on QL? I would love to do a duel sometime.
Click to expand...

I thought that monitor fared pretty well in Digital Versus. Not sure why you say it's BS. :confused:
 
ihira said:
Heres another BenQ 24"er with very low input lag.
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-benq-g2400wt-part11.html#Lag

Overall BenQ 2400 monitors have very low input lag and are well suited for gaming.
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I play Crysis, Warhead, and Far Cry 2 on a BenQ E2400HD. I also watch a lot of HD-DVD and Blu-ray movies, I think the monitor does well in both scenarios. However....

A WORD OF CAUTION.....

There is a known bug with ATI drivers with 1920x1080 resolution with dx10. If gaming in dx10 is important to you and you use a 1920x1080 screen (like my BenQ E2400HD), then you will need a Nvidia card. I've wasted about 30 hours of my life trying to get the BenQ to play ANY game in dx10, and the only way to do it with my ATI card is to reduce to 1650x1080 or play in windowed mode, which defeats the purpose of having a nice monitor/card setup. But that's not BenQ's fault..I recommend their monitors over several others I've had over the years.
 
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