LED technology: when and should one wait/care/bother

E

~El~Jefe~

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
467
I have seen supposed demo's of LED backlit lcds. The color gamut is more than "wide", by far it looks like from the numbers. I guess that is good. shrugs.

what I am interested though is in dark areas. I love evil things. Sick things. painful/bizarre crap. So, having a happy bright loving person show me how great an lcd monitor is in a sunlit room irritates me. I use one 40 watt bulb in a dark room to do whatever I do. I use a 10 watt nightlight in my bathroom. I put two on if I shave. SHould someone like me wait for LED or will they be stupidly priced and first cycle technology bugged/made like crap/die quick. Most things do that it seems. Anyone have experience with LED backlit displays? I have seen the geared for marketing jargon tech papers on these things and it appears that they will also have problems with dark light. yes, they can turn off, but, what about 1 pixel wide line of darkness next to a bright line? cant turn off all of them. just my thoughts. last thing stopping me from buying either:

planar 26" or a benq24 incher, the VW one.

thanx
 
I suspect you will get few answers to your question because there arent many people who have detailed experience with LED backlit panels. I have never seen a commercial one but have some experience with industrial LED backlighting. I can surmise a few answers to your questions but a complete answer will take a while (until the panels are in commercial production).

The LED backlight is just the backlight. Panel details like viewing angle, response time, and localized contrast (white line next to a black one) will depend on the quality of the LCD, not the backlight. Overall color gamut and uniformity will undoubtably be much better. Quality issues from respected vendors should not be a problem. Top grade panels will be calibrated for brightness uniformity (possible with LED, not possible with CCFL) and "Dimability" should be better. But these are guesses. The actual production will depend on the many compromises the manufacturer utilizes to control costs.

I would not wait. I didnt, bought a 2407wfp-hc. I too would like a LED backlight but its probably two years or more away for reasonable costs and knowledgable selection.

Mac.
 
Current LCD models are still pretty much crap for dark environments. Super bright backlights give people the illusion that dark grey is black, since the white point is set so very high. Since you'd be turning the backlight intensity down pretty close to 0, the grey blacks would be painfully obvious.

Recalling from memory, LED backlights don't help contrast in any significant way. Samsung's "Local Dimming" LED technology is supposed to allow excellent contrast by having clusters of LED's that can actually turn themselves all the way off to display true black. This technology sounds a lot like current dynamic backlight "gimmicks", so I am skeptical.

As Machineguy59 said, it will be a while before we see these displays, and a while before they are not cost-prohibitive.
 
manufacturers should forget about LED backlights, 92% gamut with current CCFL's is enough. They need to focus on improving all the othe issues plagueing LCD's (contrast ratio, 120Hz refresh rates, input lag, response time etc...) At the current rate by the time these issues are resolved LCD's will be obsolite.
 
I believe OLED is shaping up to be the successor to LCD at this point.
 
looks to be since SED is dead....OLED does look cool i gotta admit. how how far off/what cost?
 
Scyles said:
I believe OLED is shaping up to be the successor to LCD at this point.
Click to expand...

OLED has an issue with response time especially as the screen size increase's however that is the only issue apart from cost. SED who knows, SONY has more chances with FED(Field Emission Display).
 
Am I correct in thinking LED back-lit displays consume a lot more power than their CCFL brethren?
 
The ones I saw dissipated less power. Remember, to get uniform brightness from ccfl you need a difuser and probably light from the sides. With LED you can spread the light across the panel so you dont waste as much smoothing it out. Also, LED light generation is very efficient (probably better than ccfl) if the substrate is designed properly. But this is all speculation until we see a serious manufacturer.

Of course display technology continues to evolve. Has for 60 years that I know of (green CRT, grey CRT, black on white CRT, color CRT, rare earth CRT, black matrix CRT, taught matrix CRT, in line gun CRT, LCD, plasma, etc, etc, etc).

The ultimate in my viewfinder is an LCD with LED aligned to the pixels (no color filter needed because the red LED is behind the red subpixel, etc). This display would have the convergence of an LCD, the color gamut of LED (surpases CRT color), power efficiency at least 4 times todays LCD (no red/blue light absorbed by the green filter), and contrast of the sum between the LED and LCD (an LED turned off is black). Viewing angles might still be a problem and I am not sure about ghosting. But who knows when you wish upon a star.

Mac
 
LEDs were less efficient than CCFL last time I looked. Of course, they're improving all the time.
 
Power efficiency is overstated. The move from 19" CRT's to 19" LCD's resulted in savings of around $10-15 a year, last I checked. Its highly unlikely that OLED uses more power than a CRT, right?
 
OLED based displays will use a lot less (Hopefully anyway. Early designs are about the same as LCD).
 
Wait for the laser TV/projector :D
Thats all I want now!
 
~El~Jefe~ said:
I have seen supposed demo's of LED backlit lcds. The color gamut is more than "wide", by far it looks like from the numbers. I guess that is good. shrugs.

what I am interested though is in dark areas. I love evil things. Sick things. painful/bizarre crap. So, having a happy bright loving person show me how great an lcd monitor is in a sunlit room irritates me. I use one 40 watt bulb in a dark room to do whatever I do. I use a 10 watt nightlight in my bathroom. I put two on if I shave. SHould someone like me wait for LED or will they be stupidly priced and first cycle technology bugged/made like crap/die quick. Most things do that it seems. Anyone have experience with LED backlit displays? I have seen the geared for marketing jargon tech papers on these things and it appears that they will also have problems with dark light. yes, they can turn off, but, what about 1 pixel wide line of darkness next to a bright line? cant turn off all of them. just my thoughts. last thing stopping me from buying either:

planar 26" or a benq24 incher, the VW one.

thanx
Click to expand...


I think you have already answered your question, LED displays the few that are out now ARE RIDICULOUSLY HIGH PRICED, they are also first round tech and bound to be buggy but for the wealthy and the bold early adopter I would say go for it. The rest of us will wait to benefit from the wasted money of others to see how good these displays turn out to be.
:D :D :D
 
benq 24" for watching movies and playing twitch games in a dark room (not no light room though, I keep 40 watt bulb on 6 feet laterally from my side on....

or the HC dell. dont tell me dell because you own it, tell me why? I am not the rich but I think my crt is giving me eye strain despite refresh rates being cranked. it is time to move on....

I thank you much for your input. it appears that the only difference monitors are going to get is the wide spectrum tubes being put in. i wonder if benq is going to upgrade. hm.
 
I recommend the LG246 WPBN, great response time, lowest input lag of ALL the 24 inch lcd's, uses the SAME panel from AUO that the benq uses with higher quality components AND you can buy it at your local best buy or circuit city where you will have 100 percent satisfaction guarantee, zero dead pixel return policy in the first two weeks, 30 day return otherwise.

I highly recommend the LG and also recommend you do not purchase an LCD online due to return hassles.
 
hm. if it is the same panel as a Benq, why do people talk about the benq 10x more than the LG? does it have senseye stuff and all that to make images contrast nicely, etc etc? does it have BFInsertion ability?

curious!
 
Well the new Samsung DLP tv's have changed from bulb to led for lighting.
Sorry Not changed but added this feature. Some are saying its not a bright and its not as defined...etc..
others say looks the same to me or better.

hell if only 3 tv's have led backlit then I don't see it as a main selling feature.
Just get a std lcd...maybe in a few years they will get something better.
 
sparks said:
Well the new Samsung DLP tv's have changed from bulb to led for lighting.
Sorry Not changed but added this feature. Some are saying its not a bright and its not as defined...etc..
others say looks the same to me or better.

hell if only 3 tv's have led backlit then I don't see it as a main selling feature.
Just get a std lcd...maybe in a few years they will get something better.
Click to expand...

the main point in using LEDs is the uniformity gained by it (said to be pretty much perfect)
 
m104 said:
no ur wrong... ive heard talk of a 50% power reduction when using LED backlighting
Click to expand...
Interesting. How do they overcome white LED's lower efficiency (unless I've missed some recent efficiency breakthrough or something)? Maybe I'm underestimating the efficiency loses of CCFL v standard fluorescents? I'd be interested in any figures you could provide.

Cursory Google searches seem to put white LEDs at 50% efficiency v CCFL. I'm confused >.< Are they not using white LEDs? >.>
 
While a CCFL may have greater lumens/Watt, an LED light source can be highly focused into a highefficiency molded light guide; therefore, the overall efficiency of the system is better. In addition, they are fully RoHS compliant, so environmental impact is not an issue.
Click to expand...

In short...CCFL is ahead right now, but its breathing room is limited. LED has more options available to surpass CCFL and thus be better as a total solution, not an individual item. Sorta like robbing Paul so Peter can invest and get some compound interest. :D
 
DefineByte said:
Interesting. How do they overcome white LED's lower efficiency (unless I've missed some recent efficiency breakthrough or something)? Maybe I'm underestimating the efficiency loses of CCFL v standard fluorescents? I'd be interested in any figures you could provide.

Cursory Google searches seem to put white LEDs at 50% efficiency v CCFL. I'm confused >.< Are they not using white LEDs? >.>[/QUOTE

Sorry, I have no figures to provide. But here a couple insights for the future.
1. They dont use white LED's. They use a red one, a green one and a blue one in patterns like the red, green and blue pixels. (But not aligned with the pixels, yet.)
2. Since the light is spread over an area its easier to difuse into an even illumination across the panel. Smaller diffusers mean less loss.
3. Since the RGB LED's can be driven discriminately the RGB sliders directly control light creation by driving the apropriate LEDs harder/softer.
4. The next generation LED backlight is expected to assist LCD contrast by reducing the drive in dark areas. Less wasted light.

LED/LCD display technologies are a good match for higher contrast, fast response times. The ultimate will be when each red subpixel is driven by a red LED, each green subpixel by a green LED, and each blue by a blue. Blacks become really black because the LED can be turned comletely off one pixel at a time. Even better, there is no need for a color filter to block the green and blue light for the red pixel, the red and blue for the green, etc.

But for now, its expensive and the technology still needs development. CCFL works for now.

Mac
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the info guys. I didn't even realise local dimming had hit the street yet.

I wonder if manufacturers will introduce specs for LED coarseness/count/density (whatever they want to call it). Could be the new contrast war (although hopefully less misleading).
 
I recently learned that just about any and all LED's wont be shown for over a year to the sub 1100 dollar public. most have abandoned the led for this Christmas season. ( think all actually)

I ruled out pva. I am now weighing a-mva vs s-ips
 
That would be a real shame. Still, I'd probably go for one anyway as long as they get down to 32". I don't think I have room on my desk for that 70" behemoth up there^.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top